Navy 2022

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youthathletics
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by youthathletics »

naptownshark wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 9:29 am I have been a longtime reader of this thread and mostly read to see whats going on with the program and how the fans have been reacting.
I also noticed that oldjay is quite a supporter of RS and dislikes RW quite a bit. Here's some NCAA Stats
2012-
O - 39th @ 9.08 g/gm
D - 14th @ 8.92 g/gm

2013
O - 58th @ 7.92 g/gm
D - 32nd @ 10.32 g/gm

2014
O - 51st @ 8.93 g/gm
D - 20th @ 9.36 g/gm

2015
O - 38th @ 9.79 g/gm
D - 13 @ 8.57 g/gm

2016
O - 33rd @ 9.88 g/gm
D - 2nd @ 7.38 g/gm

2017
O - 47th @ 9.43 g/gm
D - 22nd @ 9.57 g/gm

2018
O - 48th @ 9.0 g/gm
D - 15th @8.93 g/gm

2019
O - 48th @ 10.62 g/gm
D - 51st @ 12.08 g/gm


So yes, statistically the defense has been significantly better than the offensive side of the ball. One year the defense was worse and you are just going to bash RW for it? How about the previous years were the O was complete garbage? How about the multiple years RS went on record to tell media that it was the most talent on the offensive side of the ball he's had and still couldn't produce?

Let me be clear. I like RS and RW both a lot. Both of them are great guys and good leaders but to sit here and bash RW, oldjay, after one bad year is a little telling which side you're on. RS came into a difficult situation after Meade was fired and it was unfair but knowing some alums he also didn't help his cause too much either.

I think a lot of people's frustration came with RS not ever being willing to give up the O to capable OC's that have come and gone. The mainstay of Navy Lacrosse has always been D and RW would be a fantastic head coach. He knows these kids, knows the academy and would be a great fit. All I'm hoping for as a fan is to see Navy Lacrosse come back to play how they used to in the 2000's.

Sorry for the rant but the past two pages made me really puzzled.

BEATarmy!
And to my longstanding complaint about the pace, speed, and situational awareness to be creative at their practices significantly impacts how the defense responds in game situations when playing teams unlike that what is seen at practice. Those numbers you posted are indeed quite telling. Sure Navy has a scout team, but they are not going to be to able replicate oppositions speed, pace, and efficiency.

2016, the year they are ranked @2 defensively and they had a nice close game in the NCAA playoffs, they also had a highly aggressive defense that was super athletic and they could extend much further, coupled with Dove at F/O. RW adjusted IMO, which is what any good coach does, especially when your players are quite different each year.

If there is an argument that RW should not be the leader of this team, I have yet to hear one....Bueller?
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
laxxygilmore
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by laxxygilmore »

Coach Sowell’s overall Navy record for 8 full seasons (110 games) completed from 2012-2019 closes at 54-56/.490, including 6-7/.461 in 2019, with W seasons at 3 of 8 /.375, and PLT Championships at 0 of 8/.000 overall and 0-5/.000 when actually in the PLT with a PLT games W-L @ 0-5/.000.

Coach Sowell’s Navy record for the last 3 seasons 2017-2019 @ 21-20/.512, with PLT Championship W’s @ 0 of 3/.000, and PLT games W-L @ 0-2/.000 (2017 & 2018...DNQ 2019). The avg. Scoring O is 9.6g/gm and Scoring D is 10.2, difference avg. @ -0.6g/gm. The avg. shooting % is 28.2%.


8 Seasons Sans Sustainable Success 2012-2019...
(Compiled data from USNA MLax archives; NCAA.com; lax.com; Massey)

Games W-L Overall***************************54-56/.490…including 6-7/.461 in 2019, w/ last 3 seasons @ 21-20/.512
SOS Rating Avg.*******************************+-#32…including #24 in 2019.
W Seasons*************************************3 of 8/.375

Games W-L vs. “Top 30” Teams************21-48/.304…including 1-6/.143 in 2019 with L’s to #3 Maryland; #23 Princeton; #7 Loyola; #25 Lehigh; #19 Army; #6 Syracuse and a W over #20 Boston in 2019.

Games W-L vs. “Bottom 43” Teams********33-8/.805…including 5-1/.833 in 2019 with W’s over #46 Vermont; #54 UMBC; #31 Bucknell; #64 Lafayette and L to #34 Holy Cross and W over #47 Colgate.

One Goal Games W-L************************12-15/.444…including 9-8 L vs. #18 Army and 13-12 W vs. #20 Boston in 2019.

9 Goals Scored or Less by Navy W-L*******10-50/.166…including 14-9 L vs. #3 Maryland; 18-5 L vs. #7 Loyola; 15-8 L vs. #24 Lehigh; 12-9 upset L vs. #31 Holy Cross; 9-8 L vs. #18 Army and 18-9 L vs. #6 Syracuse in 2019.

Scoring O***************************************9.32g/gm avg.
Scoring D***************************************9.38ga/gm avg.
Scoring O – Scoring D Difference***********-0.06g/gm avg…including -1.5g/gm in 2019 (10.6g – 12.1ga) after 13 games ending the 2019 season @ 6-7/.461

PLT Qualified (6 of 9 teams since 2014)***5 of 8/.625
(DNQ 2012; 2013 & 2019)
PLT Championships Won Overall************0 of 5/.000
PLT Championships Runner-Up**************0 of 5/.000
PLT Games W-L********************************0-5/.000
(Eliminated in RD1 2014; 2015; 2016; 2017; Eliminated 2018 in RD2 after RD1 Bye)
(Eliminated 2X by Army; 2X by Lehigh; 1X by Holy Cross)
(Outscored overall 51-32 or 10.2 to 6.4 avg./gm in PLT play)

NCAAT Qualified******************************1 of 8/.125
NCAAT Games W-L****************************1-1/.500
(At-Large #16 slot in 2016; RD1 W vs. Yale; RD2 L vs. Brown)
(DNQ 2012-2015; 2017; 2018 & 2019)

Overall Post Season Tourney Games W-L**1-6/.143

Overall vs. Army Games W-L*****************4-6/.400…including 9-8 L vs. #18 Army in 2019.
(Outscored overall by Army 97-78 or 9.7 to 7.8 avg./gm)
PLT Army Games W-L**************************0-2/.000
(Outscored Overall in PLT by Army 20-10 or 10.0 to 5.0 avg./gm)…L’s to Army in PLT when it mattered most.

Overall vs. Maryland Games W-L************0-8/.000…including 14-9 L to #3 Maryland in 2019.
(Outscored overall by MD 93-51 or 11.6 to 6.3 avg./gm)

Overall vs. Hopkins Games W-L**************1-5/.166…dropped #16 Hopkins after 2017.
(Outscored overall by Hopkins 63-44 or 10.5 to 7.3 avg./gm)

Overall vs. Loyola Games W-L***************1-5/.166…including 18-5 L to #7 Loyola in 2019.
(Outscored overall by Loyola 84-44, or 14.0 to 7.3 avg./gm)
Record alone vs. Maryland + Hopkins + Loyola (aka, “Top 20” teams from 2012-2019) totals @ 2-18/.100 of the 20-46/.303 overall within vs. Top 30 teams from 2012-2019 to date.

Composite avg. W% of games W-L @ 54-56/.490 and W seasons @ 3 of 8 /.375 is .432 from 2012-2019.
laxxygilmore wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 12:13 pm
Bravo 3 wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 10:08 am Naptown don’t sweat it , it’s comical ! While at Navy
Richie won 5 tournament championships to RS ‘s 0. took a team to the ncaas multiple times including championship Monday.
Won double digit postseason games to RS’s 1.

And the biggest Indictment to Rick Sowell coaching was that EVERYTIME he made the Patriot tournament , they were beaten by a team they had beaten during the regular season !!! The 2 against Army and the one against Holy Cross were bombs.
EXACTLY
Navy MLax historical context snap-shot since NCAA established in 1971…following the impressive 1928-1970 era of USILA, whereby Navy MLax won 17 USILA Championships (12) or Co-Championships (5) under head coaches Finlayson; Moore and Bilderback.

NCAA Starting in 1971…
YEARS***HEAD COACH***GAMES W-L***W SEASONS***NCAAT APPEARANCES

’71-‘72***Bilderback*******18-8/.692******2 of 2/1.000****2 (1FF / 1QF)
’73-‘82***Szlasa************85-44/.658****10 of 10/1.000**10 (1RU / 5FF / 4QF)
’83-‘94***Matthews********84-61/.579******8 of 12/.666***7 (4QF / 4RD1)
’95-‘11***Meade***********142-97/.594****10 of 17/.588***7 (1RU / 2QF / 4RD1)…PLT Championships @ 5 of 8/.625
’12-‘19***Sowell************54-56/.490*****3 of 8/.375*****1 (QF)…PLT Championships @ 0 of 8/.000

The 1971-2011 era @ 329-210/.610 with W seasons @ 30 of 41/.731 and 26 NCAAT appearances.

IMHO, Navy MLax Mids will recover quickly from the unfortunate results and experience of the 2012-2019 era. IMHO, AD Gladchuk is correct in his view that new head coaching leadership is needed to restore Navy MLax to his long history of success prior to 2012-2019.
laxxygilmore
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by laxxygilmore »

youthathletics wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 12:29 pm
naptownshark wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 9:29 am I have been a longtime reader of this thread and mostly read to see whats going on with the program and how the fans have been reacting.
I also noticed that oldjay is quite a supporter of RS and dislikes RW quite a bit. Here's some NCAA Stats
2012-
O - 39th @ 9.08 g/gm
D - 14th @ 8.92 g/gm

2013
O - 58th @ 7.92 g/gm
D - 32nd @ 10.32 g/gm

2014
O - 51st @ 8.93 g/gm
D - 20th @ 9.36 g/gm

2015
O - 38th @ 9.79 g/gm
D - 13 @ 8.57 g/gm

2016
O - 33rd @ 9.88 g/gm
D - 2nd @ 7.38 g/gm

2017
O - 47th @ 9.43 g/gm
D - 22nd @ 9.57 g/gm

2018
O - 48th @ 9.0 g/gm
D - 15th @8.93 g/gm

2019
O - 48th @ 10.62 g/gm
D - 51st @ 12.08 g/gm


So yes, statistically the defense has been significantly better than the offensive side of the ball. One year the defense was worse and you are just going to bash RW for it? How about the previous years were the O was complete garbage? How about the multiple years RS went on record to tell media that it was the most talent on the offensive side of the ball he's had and still couldn't produce?

Let me be clear. I like RS and RW both a lot. Both of them are great guys and good leaders but to sit here and bash RW, oldjay, after one bad year is a little telling which side you're on. RS came into a difficult situation after Meade was fired and it was unfair but knowing some alums he also didn't help his cause too much either.

I think a lot of people's frustration came with RS not ever being willing to give up the O to capable OC's that have come and gone. The mainstay of Navy Lacrosse has always been D and RW would be a fantastic head coach. He knows these kids, knows the academy and would be a great fit. All I'm hoping for as a fan is to see Navy Lacrosse come back to play how they used to in the 2000's.

Sorry for the rant but the past two pages made me really puzzled.

BEATarmy!
And to my longstanding complaint about the pace, speed, and situational awareness to be creative at their practices significantly impacts how the defense responds in game situations when playing teams unlike that what is seen at practice. Those numbers you posted are indeed quite telling. Sure Navy has a scout team, but they are not going to be to able replicate oppositions speed, pace, and efficiency.

2016, the year they are ranked @2 defensively and they had a nice close game in the NCAA playoffs, they also had a highly aggressive defense that was super athletic and they could extend much further, coupled with Dove at F/O. RW adjusted IMO, which is what any good coach does, especially when your players are quite different each year.

If there is an argument that RW should not be the leader of this team, I have yet to hear one....Bueller?
+1. Your O comments have always been laser like on target.
laxxygilmore
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by laxxygilmore »

WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 2:06 pm
oldjayfan wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 10:51 am
WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 6:05 am
HealthyDebate wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 6:31 pm Oldjayfan, not sure what the axe to grind is with the young Gren navy defense. There are a lot of things to improve on and they will. Interesting that until recently you never posted on this thread. Wonder why that is.
Because he’s a jerk?

He just joined on May 3rd. My guess is the poster is a sock puppet of some other poster.

You stay classy Wombat; sorry my life hasn't revolved around sitting in a basement and posting on lacrosse message boards for years!
Healthydebate-- I have no axe to grind with the young D, it's simply that Coach Wellner is praised on this site as some type of defensive guru, yet
RS is given no slack for having a young offense. If you have read this board over the years, the personal attacks on RS were beyond ridiculous. RS
is an excellent coach, Navy is a tough place to recruit strong offensive talent(that is why many, many recruits have been poached). Wellner was
hired by RS many years ago and he is a good coach. But when the defense had troubles this year, didn't read any complaints about Wellner not "making adjustments" or "body language". Stick around and you will read some real mature comments from the various geniuses that think they own a free speech board... Oh, and don't dissent, lest you be a "jerk" or "sock puppet"...
You just seem to have a laser-like focus on poking at people and are defending to the point of dying on the last hill.

It’s not worth it, man. Give it up!

The future is here. Hopefully it will turn the corner.
WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 4:59 pm
oldjayfan wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 2:30 pm Ah for short-memories! Nothing to "give up"...here's hoping Navy can get back to the quarters in the next decade! Just find it hypocritical that RS was criticized to the enth degree, yet people are clamoring for his longtime assistant to get the gig...I suppose that's how it rolls. Carry on!

Sorry, Wombat, never got the memo that I answer to you. In fact, I won't ;)
I wouldn’t want you to answer to me.

But, you just did.
"WOMBATMAN"...laser guided indeed.
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oldjayfan
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by oldjayfan »

Still laughing over the Rambo, Heacock, Kelly, Bernhardt, Rotanz comparison to the Navy O...WOW! Tillman sure took a huge gamble turning the offense over to those neophytes! Next year the new Navy coach can unleash the supposed offensive weapons--oh, and the depth we keep hearing about--and light up the scoreboard. I would bet it's still a race to get to 10 goals...Army beat Loyola by scoring 7!! Maybe it'll be a race to see who can hold the team to 5 goals against!! IMHO, Navy will continue to struggle as the PL as improved immensely in the last 7 or so years...
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youthathletics
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by youthathletics »

oldjayfan wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 1:39 pm Still laughing over the Rambo, Heacock, Kelly, Bernhardt, Rotanz comparison to the Navy O...WOW! Tillman sure took a huge gamble turning the offense over to those neophytes! Next year the new Navy coach can unleash the supposed offensive weapons--oh, and the depth we keep hearing about--and light up the scoreboard. I would bet it's still a race to get to 10 goals...Army beat Loyola by scoring 7!! Maybe it'll be a race to see who can hold the team to 5 goals against!! IMHO, Navy will continue to struggle as the PL as improved immensely in the last 7 or so years...
Your reading comprehension is quite poor oldjayfan, You clearly are losing it. Maybe we should we call you fattylax, laxwheatfield, or RRR from now on. :lol: ;)
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
Tecumseh
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by Tecumseh »

youthathletics wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 2:08 pm
oldjayfan wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 1:39 pm Still laughing over the Rambo, Heacock, Kelly, Bernhardt, Rotanz comparison to the Navy O...WOW! Tillman sure took a huge gamble turning the offense over to those neophytes! Next year the new Navy coach can unleash the supposed offensive weapons--oh, and the depth we keep hearing about--and light up the scoreboard. I would bet it's still a race to get to 10 goals...Army beat Loyola by scoring 7!! Maybe it'll be a race to see who can hold the team to 5 goals against!! IMHO, Navy will continue to struggle as the PL as improved immensely in the last 7 or so years...
Your reading comprehension is quite poor oldjayfan, You clearly are losing it. Maybe we should we call you fattylax, laxwheatfield, or RRR from now on. :lol: ;)
+1 Youth :lol:

BOOM :shock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_P7nUEjF48 :mrgreen:

Fore

"T"
So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life.
laxxygilmore
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by laxxygilmore »

laxxygilmore wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 12:13 pm
Bravo 3 wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 10:08 am Naptown don’t sweat it , it’s comical ! While at Navy
Richie won 5 tournament championships to RS ‘s 0. took a team to the ncaas multiple times including championship Monday.
Won double digit postseason games to RS’s 1.

And the biggest Indictment to Rick Sowell coaching was that EVERYTIME he made the Patriot tournament , they were beaten by a team they had beaten during the regular season !!! The 2 against Army and the one against Holy Cross were bombs.
EXACTLY
Navy MLax historical context snap-shot since NCAA established in 1971…following the impressive 1928-1970 era of USILA, whereby Navy MLax won 17 USILA Championships (12) or Co-Championships (5) under head coaches Finlayson; Moore and Bilderback.

NCAA Starting in 1971…
YEARS***HEAD COACH***GAMES W-L***W SEASONS***NCAAT APPEARANCES

’71-‘72***Bilderback*******18-8/.692******2 of 2/1.000****2 (1FF / 1QF)
’73-‘82***Szlasa************85-44/.658****10 of 10/1.000**10 (1RU / 5FF / 4QF)
’83-‘94***Matthews********84-61/.579******8 of 12/.666***7 (4QF / 4RD1)
’95-‘11***Meade***********142-97/.594****10 of 17/.588***7 (1RU / 2QF / 4RD1)…PLT Championships @ 5 of 8/.625
’12-‘19***Sowell************54-56/.490*****3 of 8/.375*****1 (QF)…PLT Championships @ 0 of 8/.000

The 1971-2011 era @ 329-210/.610 with W seasons @ 30 of 41/.731 and 26 NCAAT appearances.

IMHO, Navy MLax Mids will recover quickly from the unfortunate results and experience of the 2012-2019 era. IMHO, AD Gladchuk is correct in his view that new head coaching leadership is needed to restore Navy MLax to his long history of success prior to 2012-2019.
Interesting look back below as well from the Navy Lacrosse media guide and comment from the "...architect of building winning programs..."
June 11, 2011
https://s3.amazonaws.com/navysports.com ... ches.pdf

“Today is a day about moving forward, not looking backwards," said Sowell.
…looking back on Navy Lacrosse history on June 11, 2011, that history is impressive indeed and should not have been dismissed, especially in comparison to "looking backwards" on the past 8 seasons of 2012-2019. This is now a fantastic opportunity for the MLax Mids, their families and the Navy Faithful, to move forward and bridge over that unfortunate 8 seasons gap from past sustainable success for so many decades prior to 2012 to future sustainable success after 2019.

Head coaching leadership presence + selfless head coaching of a selfless team = sustainable success...just like all the years prior to 2012.
xxxxxxx
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by xxxxxxx »

I am not a Navy guy but have tremendous respect and gratitude for all who serve. I am just curious, in today's world with 73 D1 teams and large resources committed to these teams, what is a reasonable expectation for a Service Academy Lacrosse program? Is it National Champion/Final Four contender? Is it Patriot League contenders with a league championship every few years? Is it a winning record? I am not being sarcastic or disrespectful to anyone, just curious as to what are the expectations.
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old salt
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by old salt »

oldjayfan wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 10:51 am RS is given no slack for having a young offense. If you have read this board over the years, the personal attacks on RS were beyond ridiculous. RS
is an excellent coach, Navy is a tough place to recruit strong offensive talent(that is why many, many recruits have been poached). Wellner was
hired by RS many years ago and he is a good coach. But when the defense had troubles this year, didn't read any complaints about Wellner not "making adjustments" or "body language". Stick around and you will read some real mature comments from the various geniuses that think they own a free speech board... Oh, and don't dissent, lest you be a "jerk" or "sock puppet"...
oldjayfan wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 1:39 pm Still laughing over the Rambo, Heacock, Kelly, Bernhardt, Rotanz comparison to the Navy O...WOW! Tillman sure took a huge gamble turning the offense over to those neophytes! Next year the new Navy coach can unleash the supposed offensive weapons--oh, and the depth we keep hearing about--and light up the scoreboard. I would bet it's still a race to get to 10 goals...Army beat Loyola by scoring 7!! Maybe it'll be a race to see who can hold the team to 5 goals against!! IMHO, Navy will continue to struggle as the PL as improved immensely in the last 7 or so years...
oldjayfan wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 7:43 pm And the maturity continues...bring back Coach Meade and his 18-51 record at Furman..wonder if Laxxy will post his overall record and stats on the Furman thread, EXACTLY
oldjayfan wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 2:30 pm Ah for short-memories! Nothing to "give up"...here's hoping Navy can get back to the quarters in the next decade! Just find it hypocritical that RS was criticized to the enth degree, yet people are clamoring for his longtime assistant to get the gig...I suppose that's how it rolls. Carry on!
If you really do admire Rick Sowell, you are doing him no favors by reigniting old arguments. They will inevitably focus on the early damage he did to the program, & to his own prospects & relationships, by some of his actions when he came into the job. He learned some hard lessons (by his own admission) & NAAA made resources available to allow him to right the ship (somewhat), but scar tissue remained.

The AD made a significant commitment to him & gave him generous resources & time to bring the program back to it's previous level.
In the end -- the 8 year record speaks for itself. Rick Sowell got a fair shot at Navy.

I'm sure both the AD & Sowell learned a lot in the process & they both will apply the lessons learned in their next steps, moving forward.
Rick Sowell took a lot of heat (some deserved, most not), but he maintained his dignity & never played the victim. I admire him for that.
I hope he lands another D-1 HC job where his system is a better fit & he can recruit players that will make it work, as they did at SB.
Those were some of the most enjoyable, overachieving teams ever. He can replicate that success in the right situation.
I wish him well.
Last edited by old salt on Thu May 09, 2019 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
oldjayfan
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by oldjayfan »

youthathletics wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 3:32 pm
Seahawk wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 3:02 pm It’s simple - Georgetown and UMD offenses got better when the players got better and could execute more complex schemes. You are as good as your players let you achieve. See UMD defense this year, for example. No Ikeda, Neufeldt or Mike E., for sure.
Quite true. And I vividly remember Tillman in an interview telling everyone (it may have been post Championship game) that Matt Rambo (earlier in the season) really taught him a lesson about letting go and not holding on too tight. I think Rambo said something like "we got this coach, just relax" He essentially gave the offense over to Rambo, Heacock, Kelly, Rotantz, and Bernhardt...and they won that year.
Yeah, really deep reading...Tillman, "letting go and not holding on too tight..." As if Navy had that talent.
I'll be curious to see if the new Navy HC is met with the same vitriol.

Now, continue with the mutual admiration society discussion.

+1
TheBigIguana
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by TheBigIguana »

oldjayfan wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 1:39 pm Still laughing over the Rambo, Heacock, Kelly, Bernhardt, Rotanz comparison to the Navy O...WOW! Tillman sure took a huge gamble turning the offense over to those neophytes! Next year the new Navy coach can unleash the supposed offensive weapons--oh, and the depth we keep hearing about--and light up the scoreboard. I would bet it's still a race to get to 10 goals...Army beat Loyola by scoring 7!! Maybe it'll be a race to see who can hold the team to 5 goals against!! IMHO, Navy will continue to struggle as the PL as improved immensely in the last 7 or so years...
I love the Patriot but it has a very weak bottom. There are currently 4 quality programs in Loyola Boston Army and Lehigh who have been competing for the crown since Loyola joined. Colgate has slipped, HC is improving but not there yet, Bucknell is not built for sustained success and Lafayette is bad. Navy should be closer to the top group easily. Meaning that if they finish below 5th in the league it's been a bad year. Never reaching a Patriot final under Sowell is inexcusable. Navy should be competitive in the Patriot League period.
oldjayfan
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by oldjayfan »

No defending the lack of success in the PL tourney. Since when hasn't Navy been competitive in the PL? They were tie-breakered out of the PL tourney this year. Army won the PL this year and they were 5-8 last year. Outside of Loyola's dominance and Lafayette's impotence, the PL games are always tight. Pulling for Army this weekend, but would like to see someone beside Loyola win and NCAA game....
laxxygilmore
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by laxxygilmore »

xxxxxxx wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 3:14 pm I am not a Navy guy but have tremendous respect and gratitude for all who serve. I am just curious, in today's world with 73 D1 teams and large resources committed to these teams, what is a reasonable expectation for a Service Academy Lacrosse program? Is it National Champion/Final Four contender? Is it Patriot League contenders with a league championship every few years? Is it a winning record? I am not being sarcastic or disrespectful to anyone, just curious as to what are the expectations.
Great question. IMHO...over an 8 seasons time frame...

Games W-L Overall @ .680 or >, not 54-56/.490
SOS Rating Avg.@ <20, not +-#32
W Seasons @ .750 or >, not 3 of 8/.375

Games W-L vs. “Top 30” Teams @ .600 or >, not 21-48/.304

Games W-L vs. “Bottom 43” Teams @ >.805, certainly not below 33-8/.805! :)

One Goal Games W-L @ .750 or >, not 12-15/.444

9 Goals Scored or Less by Navy W-L @ .750 or >, not 10-50/.166

Scoring O @ >12.0g/gm avg, not 9.32g/gm avg.
Scoring D @ <8.0ga/gm avg., not >9.38ga/gm avg.
Scoring O – Scoring D Difference @ 4.0g/gm avg., not -0.06g/gm avg.

PLT Qualified @ .875 or >, not 5 of 8/.625
PLT Championships @ .750 or >, not 0 of 8/.000 overall or 0 of 5 when in the PLT
PLT Championships Runner-Up @ only when losing the final 1x or 2x in 8 years, not 0 of 5/.000
PLT Games W-L @ .750 or >, not 0-5/.000 when actually making the PLT to begin with.
And not being outscored overall 51-32 or 10.2 to 6.4 avg./gm in PLT play.

NCAAT Qualified @ .750 or >, not 1 of 8/.125
NCAAT Games W-L @ .600 or >, not 1-1/.500

Overall Post Season Tourney Games W-L @ .600 or >, not 1-6/.143

Overall vs. Army Games W-L @ .875 or >, not 4-6/.400
(Not being outscored overall by Army 97-78 or 9.7 to 7.8 avg./gm)

PLT Army Games W-L @ 1.000, not 0-2/.000
(Not being outscored overall in PLT by Army 20-10 or 10.0 to 5.0 avg./gm)…w/ L’s to Army in PLT when it matters most.

Overall vs. Maryland Games W-L @ .600 or >, not 0-8/.000
(Not being outscored overall by MD 93-51 or 11.6 to 6.3 avg./gm)

Overall vs. Hopkins Games W-L @ .600 or >, not 1-5/.166…assuming their back after dropping Hopkins after 2017.
(Not being outscored overall by Hopkins 63-44 or 10.5 to 7.3 avg./gm)

Overall vs. Loyola Games W-L @ >.600, not 1-5/.166
(Not being outscored overall by Loyola 84-44, or 14.0 to 7.3 avg./gm)
Record alone vs. Maryland + Hopkins + Loyola (aka, “Top 20” teams) totals @ .600 or >, and not @ 2-18/.100 of the 20-46/.303 overall within vs. Top 30 teams from 2012-2019.

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Seahawk
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:33 pm

Re: Navy 2019

Post by Seahawk »

Baby steps first- reverse trend v Army. Then go 50/50 with Loyola. That will mean PLT every year and an occasional NCAAT invite. Beyond that, I think is too much to expect, especially beating UMD 3 out of 4 years. But best of luck to the new guy in the recruiting world.
gymman1031
Posts: 1946
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:26 pm

Re: Navy 2019

Post by gymman1031 »

Going back to the coaching search, any words. I am starting to think even more it might be Wellner. If Navy were in horrible shape, no doubt they would have cleaned house completely. But they aren't, and he has shown a lot of promise.
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Dip&Dunk
Posts: 777
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:30 am

Re: Navy 2019

Post by Dip&Dunk »

Define “horrible shape”.
laxxygilmore
Posts: 238
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:18 pm

Re: Navy 2019

Post by laxxygilmore »

Dip&Dunk wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 6:53 pm Define “horrible shape”.
:shock: Prescient post below D&D...looks like you called it (and defined it) back in August 2018...
Dip&Dunk wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:28 am Coach S. Has been there long enough to get his brand of player (or as close as he is going to get given the circumstances) and system in place even including the NAPS red shirt year. Now it’s time to see if he can win both consistently and deep into the post season.

He (and the team) should be graded by:

Beating Army. (Duh)
Winning conference.
Signature out of conference wins.
NCAA Tournament (home game next year, lets get in first)

No more “rebuilding”, “well they lost <insert name>”, “took a step back”, “the trend is positive”, and my favorite, “well what do you expect with the service academy requirements being so high?”. Last time I checked Yale was pretty hard to get into too......and Duke....
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Dip&Dunk
Posts: 777
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:30 am

Re: Navy 2019

Post by Dip&Dunk »

“Every now and then even a blind pig finds an acorn.”
WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus
Posts: 1738
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:46 pm

Re: Navy 2019

Post by WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus »

Dip&Dunk wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 8:51 pm “Every now and then even a blind pig finds an acorn.”
It’s a blind squirrel finds a nut. You must live in a pigsty.
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