Military readiness

[Farfromgeneva]

Regarding the 2020 election Saltine - The following question remains: All of the your House/Senate GOP were elected under the same laws, on the same ballots, counted by the same machines. Were all of them legitimately elected?

They would have won under the previously existing rules anyway, as would the (R) Senate candidates in MI, AZ, & 2 in GA.

Don’t speak for Ga that’s not correct. I’m sure you’ll cite some incorrect interpretation or oped but the claim relating to Georgia is incorrect. hug you probably have a relative here you talk to on the phone and thereby know everything about the state today as well I’m sure.

[old salt]

You should be well versed. Trump's about to be our President. Again.

Stop worrying. The Dems, the media & the Deep State will find a way to prevent it, no matter what it takes. The ends justify the means.

Ya got it backwards.....YOUR media, YOUR R Voters, and YOUR Deep State (you know, all the folks slowly pleading guilty) will do whatever it takes to get Donnie elected.

It's why I'm ready for more Trump. You and your fellow TinFoilHat conspiracists will make it so.

Remember mocking me about Hillary's Forgotten Voter, OS? How are they doing?

Still forgotten. But sure.....the Deep State.

Deep State is the only thing holding things together for you and the voters you claim to care about. By all means, get rid of the only people who care about them anymore. I can't stop you or your team from doing this.

Your state is one of three (so far) hearing court cases to keep Trump off the ballot.

Whatever it takes. The ends justify the means.

[Kismet]

Regarding the 2020 election Saltine - The following question remains: All of the your House/Senate GOP were elected under the same laws, on the same ballots, counted by the same machines. Were all of them legitimately elected?

They would have won under the previously existing rules anyway, as would the (R) Senate candidates in MI, AZ, & 2 in GA.

And so would the top of the ticket as well. Your delusion is showing.
You aren't serious.

[MDlaxfan76]

On your last point, you are defending MAGA views, aligning your self as in agreement with what you say they want. I said the extremists would be happy with a Russian victory over Ukraine, a victor Orban or better yet Belorussian outcome if not outright absorption of all or part of Ukraine. Pretty close to what you have argued is acceptable and I think your views are less pro Russian than MAGA extremists on this. But right in line with MAGA generally.

Wrong again. The MAGA position would be to stop ALL aid to Ukraine. Full Stop.

My position was & is to continue defensive military aid as necessary to ensure Ukraine's survival, as it currently exists, without winning back all previously held territory.

In hopes of long term stability before Russia's invasion, I would have preferred a Belorussian-like outcome (voluntary alliance in a Union State) rather than returning to a Cold War & (now 2, soon to be 3) proxy wars vs a renewed axis of enemy nations, which we cannot sustain.

No, that's within the range of MAGA views, yours is just not the most extremist.

And indeed, you don't support the aspirations of people to be free of tyranny, to choose democracy over kleptocracy or dictatorship, and to align themselves philosophically and formally with other democracies for mutual defense. You have argued, previously quite vociferously, that Ukraine does not have a right to be an independent state, so it's puzzling as to why you claim that you are in favor of "Ukraine's survival as it currently exists" unless you mean to simply secure the achievements of Putin's aggression, it's control of the land bridge, Crimea and sea. With Ukraine constantly threatened and intimidated by the potential for Russia to fulfill Putin's ambitions, having achieved a portion. "as currently exists"...

[MDlaxfan76]

Regarding the 2020 election Saltine - The following question remains: All of the your House/Senate GOP were elected under the same laws, on the same ballots, counted by the same machines. Were all of them legitimately elected?

They would have won under the previously existing rules anyway, as would the (R) Senate candidates in MI, AZ, & 2 in GA.

And so would the top of the ticket as well. Your delusion is showing.
You aren't serious.

Which is the key to being a MAGA enabler.

Of course, the other aspect of this is that the most 'reasonable' of the MAGA theories is that the states changed the rules to help people vote with less fear of infection from Covid...making it easier for more people to vote. (an ideological anathema to MAGA) And that meant that the votes of voters who were concerned about Covid got counted who would not have been otherwise, and these went disproportionately to Biden and against Trump...but not disproportionately to Dems generally (why?). Or, as Salty wants to claim, the Presidential race was much closer under the prior rules than any of these other races and thus the differential mattered in the Presidential (analysis of the voting patterns don't show this, but facts don't matter).

But, it's that voters voted that blows MAGA's mind. But as that is on its face unpalatable, they wild-eyed turn to claims of imagined "fraud"...voters not qualified to vote voted...and the easier rules enabled them to do so...or, better yet to achieve the massive differentials, votes were cast not by individuals not qualified to vote but phony entirely, "dead people" etc...or, vote counts were manipulated in the machines, through all sorts of crazy technology theories.

And when none of that pans out as true, through audit after audit after audit, both before and after 50 court cases failed for lack of merit, back to "rules were changed"...MAGA dogma. Don't EVER make it easier for voters to vote.

[MDlaxfan76]

You should be well versed. Trump's about to be our President. Again.

Stop worrying. The Dems, the media & the Deep State will find a way to prevent it, no matter what it takes. The ends justify the means.

Ya got it backwards.....YOUR media, YOUR R Voters, and YOUR Deep State (you know, all the folks slowly pleading guilty) will do whatever it takes to get Donnie elected.

It's why I'm ready for more Trump. You and your fellow TinFoilHat conspiracists will make it so.

Remember mocking me about Hillary's Forgotten Voter, OS? How are they doing?

Still forgotten. But sure.....the Deep State.

Deep State is the only thing holding things together for you and the voters you claim to care about. By all means, get rid of the only people who care about them anymore. I can't stop you or your team from doing this.

Your state is one of three (so far) hearing court cases to keep Trump off the ballot.

Whatever it takes. The ends justify the means.

Due process under the law. That's "the means".

Personally, I think the cases are premature, and will likely fail, as Trump has not yet been convicted of the conspiracies that would correctly trigger this clause. Of course, the cases seek to achieve that conviction, so we'll see.

But I personally also think he definitely is guilty of actions that should legally keep him off the ballot. The law makes sense to me. But need to have that process actually take place in court with full due process.

Trump has the full opportunity to defend himself in court. And he alone is responsible for the actions that put him in court.

[Farfromgeneva]

On your last point, you are defending MAGA views, aligning your self as in agreement with what you say they want. I said the extremists would be happy with a Russian victory over Ukraine, a victor Orban or better yet Belorussian outcome if not outright absorption of all or part of Ukraine. Pretty close to what you have argued is acceptable and I think your views are less pro Russian than MAGA extremists on this. But right in line with MAGA generally.

Wrong again. The MAGA position would be to stop ALL aid to Ukraine. Full Stop.

My position was & is to continue defensive military aid as necessary to ensure Ukraine's survival, as it currently exists, without winning back all previously held territory.

In hopes of long term stability before Russia's invasion, I would have preferred a Belorussian-like outcome (voluntary alliance in a Union State) rather than returning to a Cold War & (now 2, soon to be 3) proxy wars vs a renewed axis of enemy nations, which we cannot sustain.

No, that's within the range of MAGA views, yours is just not the most extremist.

And indeed, you don't support the aspirations of people to be free of tyranny, to choose democracy over kleptocracy or dictatorship, and to align themselves philosophically and formally with other democracies for mutual defense. You have argued, previously quite vociferously, that Ukraine does not have a right to be an independent state, so it's puzzling as to why you claim that you are in favor of "Ukraine's survival as it currently exists" unless you mean to simply secure the achievements of Putin's aggression, it's control of the land bridge, Crimea and sea. With Ukraine constantly threatened and intimidated by the potential for Russia to fulfill Putin's ambitions, having achieved a portion. "as currently exists"...

He doesn’t care about people and said it numerous times here. Have to go in with that understanding.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Due process under the law. That's "the means".

Personally, I think the cases are premature, and will likely fail, as Trump has not yet been convicted of the conspiracies that would correctly trigger this clause. Of course, the cases seek to achieve that conviction, so we'll see.

But I personally also think he definitely is guilty of actions that should legally keep him off the ballot. The law makes sense to me. But need to have that process actually take place in court with full due process.

Trump has the full opportunity to defend himself in court. And he alone is responsible for the actions that put him in court.

I mean Trump had 50+ lawsuits to overturn the elections in like 8 states. I'm sure OS was critical of those as "the ends justify the means" as well...

[a fan]

Regarding the 2020 election Saltine - The following question remains: All of the your House/Senate GOP were elected under the same laws, on the same ballots, counted by the same machines. Were all of them legitimately elected?

They would have won under the previously existing rules anyway, as would the (R) Senate candidates in MI, AZ, & 2 in GA.

And so would the top of the ticket as well. Your delusion is showing.
You aren't serious.

No matter what, Dems are bad, and the R's win on merit.

But sure, Old Salt isn't MAGA.

[a fan]

Due process under the law. That's "the means".

Personally, I think the cases are premature, and will likely fail, as Trump has not yet been convicted of the conspiracies that would correctly trigger this clause. Of course, the cases seek to achieve that conviction, so we'll see.

But I personally also think he definitely is guilty of actions that should legally keep him off the ballot. The law makes sense to me. But need to have that process actually take place in court with full due process.

Trump has the full opportunity to defend himself in court. And he alone is responsible for the actions that put him in court.

I mean Trump had 50+ lawsuits to overturn the elections in like 8 states. I'm sure OS was critical of those as "the ends justify the means" as well...

Oh, Old Salt thinks that that's just an American Citizen availing himself of the US Judicial System.

But when the Dems do it? Oh.....that's the Deep State taking down Trump "by any means necessary".

[MDlaxfan76]

Due process under the law. That's "the means".

Personally, I think the cases are premature, and will likely fail, as Trump has not yet been convicted of the conspiracies that would correctly trigger this clause. Of course, the cases seek to achieve that conviction, so we'll see.

But I personally also think he definitely is guilty of actions that should legally keep him off the ballot. The law makes sense to me. But need to have that process actually take place in court with full due process.

Trump has the full opportunity to defend himself in court. And he alone is responsible for the actions that put him in court.

I mean Trump had 50+ lawsuits to overturn the elections in like 8 states. I'm sure OS was critical of those as "the ends justify the means" as well...

Oh, Old Salt thinks that that's just an American Citizen availing himself of the US Judicial System.

But when the Dems do it? Oh.....that's the Deep State taking down Trump "by any means necessary".

And here's what is being set up by MAGA should they gain power: the argument that Trump's numerous promises of retribution against political foes is justified. Don't need an actual crime, just the power. What the heck is due process? Facts? Law? Suspend the Constitution as necessary, declare the "Insurrection Act", declare martial law. Whatever is necessary.

Note that Trump has (falsely and rather ridiculously to the rational) claimed that all of his crimes are being prosecuted by his political foes, all ordered by Biden. He falsely claims that a President has such power (ignoring the Constitution, separation of powers, traditions, etc) and is setting the stage for his active use of that power. He talks of "treason" and "execution" of those who have opposed him in some way, his supporters have talked of sending political opponents, "Biden Crime Family" to Guantanamo Bay, etc.

They're serious.

anyone catch the short piece on John Eastman on 60 Minutes this Sunday? That's what is coming should they regain power.

They actually believe that it is "existential" for MAGA to regain control. That's what what was motivating the Jan 6 attempt, the "existential" threat of Dems having power and not them...

[old salt]

On your last point, you are defending MAGA views, aligning your self as in agreement with what you say they want. I said the extremists would be happy with a Russian victory over Ukraine, a victor Orban or better yet Belorussian outcome if not outright absorption of all or part of Ukraine. Pretty close to what you have argued is acceptable and I think your views are less pro Russian than MAGA extremists on this. But right in line with MAGA generally.

Wrong again. The MAGA position would be to stop ALL aid to Ukraine. Full Stop.

My position was & is to continue defensive military aid as necessary to ensure Ukraine's survival, as it currently exists, without winning back all previously held territory.

In hopes of long term stability before Russia's invasion, I would have preferred a Belorussian-like outcome (voluntary alliance in a Union State) rather than returning to a Cold War & (now 2, soon to be 3) proxy wars vs a renewed axis of enemy nations, which we cannot sustain.

And indeed, you don't support the aspirations of people to be free of tyranny, to choose democracy over kleptocracy or dictatorship, and to align themselves philosophically and formally with other democracies for mutual defense. You have argued, previously quite vociferously, that Ukraine does not have a right to be an independent state, so it's puzzling as to why you claim that you are in favor of "Ukraine's survival as it currently exists" unless you mean to simply secure the achievements of Putin's aggression, it's control of the land bridge, Crimea and sea. With Ukraine constantly threatened and intimidated by the potential for Russia to fulfill Putin's ambitions, having achieved a portion. "as currently exists"...

I support Ukraine's aspirations. I just don't want to have to pay for them. They had 3 decades to build a liberal democracy. They chose to be a corrupt kleptocracy like Russia, in spite of our meddling & fomenting 2 revolutions & 3 regime changes. Now we've made them our proxy in a war to exhaust Russia's military capacity. Having pushed them to this point, we can't abandon them now. That doesn't mean we have to bankroll an open ended war to recover all the territory they lost since 2014, much of which they did not bother to defend. Before Zelensky's emergence & supposed reforms, they were just another bunch of corrupt former Soviet Russians.

[old salt]

anyone catch the short piece on John Eastman on 60 Minutes this Sunday? That's what is coming should they regain power.

You Dems should retain Eastman to argue your 14th Amendment cases to ban Trump from state ballots. You've tried everything else.

[a fan]

anyone catch the short piece on John Eastman on 60 Minutes this Sunday? That's what is coming should they regain power.

You Dems should retain Eastman to argue your 14th Amendment cases to ban Trump from state ballots. You've tried everything else.

So have you. Who do you think filed all those lawsuits in 2020, OS? Jane Fonda? But you don't care when your team does it.

How many hypocrisies can you juggle at one time? We're closing in on an even 100.

The Colorado lawsuit will fail. But you're on here telling us that everyone except for Republicans can file these suits.

[old salt]

anyone catch the short piece on John Eastman on 60 Minutes this Sunday? That's what is coming should they regain power.

You Dems should retain Eastman to argue your 14th Amendment cases to ban Trump from state ballots. You've tried everything else.

So have you. Who do you think filed all those lawsuits in 2020, OS? Jane Fonda? But you don't care when your team does it.

How many hypocrisies can you juggle at one time? We're closing in on an even 100.

The Colorado lawsuit will fail. But you're on here telling us that everyone except for Republicans can file these suits.

You don't get it. They're all BS. This 14th Amendment deal is as nutty as Trump's election fraud cases which are as crazy as the NY, GA, DC & FL cases against Trump. I gave up on Trump the day after the election. I wanted him to quietly fade away. I posted nothing in support of those election cases.

If they can get tax evasion, tax fraud, or money laundering against any Trump or BIden, then go for it.
Those are non-political crimes that regular people are prosecuted for.
They couldn't even get the NY case against Trump into criminal court.

[a fan]

You don't get it. They're all BS. This 14th Amendment deal is as nutty as Trump's election fraud cases which are as crazy as the NY, GA, DC & FL cases against Trump.

You tell us that every single time that mutliple Republicans cop to multiple guilty pleas.

If these felony convictions and loss of their ability to practice law for 5 years was just another day at the office....why didn't you surrender your pilot's license at the peak of your career for five years, just for fun?

Oh, and then try and get Government contracting work with a felony on your record.

You're 1000% gaslighting us, and have been for months. There is NO WAY you believe this, I'm not buying it.

If they can get tax evasion, tax fraud, or money laundering against any Trump or BIden, then go for it.
Those are non-political crimes that regular people are prosecuted for.
They couldn't even get the NY case against Trump into criminal court.

If you found out my family defrauded your Dog Charity? What you're telling me is that not only wouldn't you think less of me as a person and call me out for it.....you'd think MORE of me, and get mad at the Prosecutor who caught my fraud. That's what you've told us, multiple times now.


Again....gaslighting.

[old salt]

You don't get it. They're all BS. This 14th Amendment deal is as nutty as Trump's election fraud cases which are as crazy as the NY, GA, DC & FL cases against Trump.

You tell us that every single time that mutliple Republicans cop to multiple guilty pleas.

If these felony convictions and loss of their ability to practice law for 5 years was just another day at the office....why didn't you surrender your pilot's license at the peak of your career for five years, just for fun?

Oh, and then try and get Government contracting work with a felony on your record.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Again. I did not defend any of the election fraud cases.
Your analogy to my pilots license is just bizarre.

[old salt]

If you found out my family defrauded your Dog Charity? What you're telling me is that not only wouldn't you think less of me as a person and call me out for it.....you'd think MORE of me, and get mad at the Prosecutor who caught my fraud. That's what you've told us, multiple times now.

Again. I have no idea what you are talking about. What Prosecutor ? what case ? what criminal charge ?

[a fan]

You don't get it. They're all BS. This 14th Amendment deal is as nutty as Trump's election fraud cases which are as crazy as the NY, GA, DC & FL cases against Trump.

You tell us that every single time that mutliple Republicans cop to multiple guilty pleas.

If these felony convictions and loss of their ability to practice law for 5 years was just another day at the office....why didn't you surrender your pilot's license at the peak of your career for five years, just for fun?

Oh, and then try and get Government contracting work with a felony on your record.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Again. I did not defend any of the election fraud cases.
Your analogy to my pilots license is just bizarre.

? you JUST defended the election fraud cases. Right now. Like five minutes ago. You telling me that you can't even keep up with your own claims in your posts?

Those election fraud cases you mocked have yielded multiple guilty pleas, with lawyers losing the ability to practice law for five years, with a felony record, to boot. And we're not done yet.

[old salt]

you JUST defended the election fraud cases. Right now. Like five minutes ago. You telling me that you can't even keep up with your own claims in your posts?

Those election fraud cases you mocked have yielded multiple guilty pleas, with lawyers losing the ability to practice law for five years, with a felony record, to boot. And we're not done yet.

Show me my words. I did not defend the election fraud cases or the lawyers who brought them.