Conservatives and Liberals

[SCLaxAttack]

CNN talking heads:

The last three Republican Speakers - Boehner, Ryan, and McCarthy - have either retired or got canned because they couldn’t control their party’s radical right. What sane person would even want to be the next Republican Speaker?

[youthathletics]

Question: how do you think this Speaker fight resolves?

Here we go...https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

From Twitter:

So the GOP just sh*tcanned their own Speaker after bringing the country to the brink of a government shutdown, while their presidential frontrunner is in court for fraud and getting gagged by the judge for defaming the clerk.

I guess the big question then is: what about Joe Biden’s age?

he may have also reneged on many of his promises to get him those votes as speaker. If you recall, he was struggling to get votes first go around.

I say vote in Larry Hogan, they need not be an incumbent

[Farfromgeneva]

Question: how do you think this Speaker fight resolves?

Here we go...https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

Dems made a mistake. They won’t like the vacuum this creates I feel pretty confident. Even if McCarthy is a doughnut.

[wayfarer]

Seacoaster has it right but Youth misses.
Trump will be nominated and elected speaker. He accepts so that he can howl at all the witnesses lining up to put him behind bars. With immunity thanks to Speech and Debate clause. Oh the injustice.
Meanwhile his former chief of staff is spelling out in black and white/all caps how repugnant our 45th president was in office. As if it hasn't been obvious since the 80s that the man is an ass and a fraud. Republicans don't care and overwhelming back him as their next presidential nominee. GOP collapse due to demographics needs to happen yesterday or else the mediocre pinheads they keep electing will destroy our country.
Meanwhile democrats are losing working class people because too many young ones would rather be holier than thou than win elections.
This has been ringing true for four years now:
https://youtu.be/KGmXGkIr7w0?si=9FFjqC8FpboRm_ER

[Seacoaster(1)]

Question: how do you think this Speaker fight resolves?

Here we go...https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

Dems made a mistake. They won’t like the vacuum this creates I feel pretty confident. Even if McCarthy is a doughnut.

I wondered about this too, while reading the news this morning. McCarthy was the moron we knew (I like doughnuts, and they have some utility, so I don't want to call him that). Rather than keeping their powder dry and their performance art mouths shut, GOP House members were, last night and this morning, calling for Trump to be Speaker, and issuing demands and conditions on anyone who might run for the Speakership. Anna Paulina Luna, QR of Florida, laid down three conditions:

“I will vote for the Speaker [1] who publicly and clearly commits to defunding Jack Smith’s anti-American election interference witch hunts and [2] subpoenas Hunter Biden while [3] bringing a vote on impeachment of Joe Biden to the floor of the House.”

Pretty good idea to lay out an unworkable and implacable position in advance of a conference meeting when your party is in peril, when the country is realizing that you cannot even get players in place, to say nothing of govern?

[cradleandshoot]

The Republicans should consult with the Democrats regarding who their next speaker should be. If their really nice maybe the Democrats can loan them someone until the Republicans figure this mess out.

[cradleandshoot]

I wonder what makes the Republicans think they can lead the country? They can't even find a consensus in their own party. It looks like Republicans are going to have to moderate themselves into oblivion... I wonder who the next person will be to step into the political meat grinder?

[MDlaxfan76]

Question: how do you think this Speaker fight resolves?

Here we go...https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

Dems made a mistake. They won’t like the vacuum this creates I feel pretty confident. Even if McCarthy is a doughnut.

I wondered about this too, while reading the news this morning. McCarthy was the moron we knew (I like doughnuts, and they have some utility, so I don't want to call him that). Rather than keeping their powder dry and their performance art mouths shut, GOP House members were, last night and this morning, calling for Trump to be Speaker, and issuing demands and conditions on anyone who might run for the Speakership. Anna Paulina Luna, QR of Florida, laid down three conditions:

“I will vote for the Speaker [1] who publicly and clearly commits to defunding Jack Smith’s anti-American election interference witch hunts and [2] subpoenas Hunter Biden while [3] bringing a vote on impeachment of Joe Biden to the floor of the House.”

Pretty good idea to lay out an unworkable and implacable position in advance of a conference meeting when your party is in peril, when the country is realizing that you cannot even get players in place, to say nothing of govern?

After the 6-20 firebrands scream and shout and make demands alienating everyone else, I think the Problem Solvers Caucus eventually puts together a set of commitments and rule changes that puts either one of their own or someone like Tom Cole in place, with Dem crossover support sufficient to exceed the 218.

The rational people in the GOP, whether actual conservatives or moderates, will mostly join that coalition, though some of the more conservative may feel compelled to side with the hard right burn down the house types, given the policy compromises this will entail and the threat of primary challenges. Likewise, some of the most progressive on the Dem side may not be able to crossover, given some of those same policy compromises.

But I suspect the PS Caucus members are already talking in the aftermath of the mess that went down yesterday. Both sides of that caucus have to be appalled at the idea of the extreme dominating going forward.

Apparently (according to McCarthy), last January Pelosi had assured McCarthy that the Dems would prevent the far right from controlling the Speakership when push came to shove, as she had assured Boehner and Ryan...but McCarthy blew the trust down the stretch and his comments blaming Dems over the weekend was the nail in the coffin.

But that doesn't mean they aren't willing to help build a consensus Leadership with R's in charge...but with some power sharing and demonstrated willingness to compromise on various issues. A solid majority on both sides believe supporting Ukraine is essential...R's want tough border policies, the Dems want more dollars for judges and personnel and more legal immigration...there's a deal to be made as Biden and the Dems don't want this issue to persist into the 2024 election cycle with the current sense that they're soft on the border. There's probably a similar set of compromises around crime...and voting...

And of course, these can be largely done within the budget parameters set last spring, albeit with some emergency funding and Ukraine funding.

The extreme will howl, but they're earning a whole lot of animosity from within the GOP Caucus as it is. It's probably the only way the most vulnerable GOP House members have a chance of holding their seats in a general, though they'll possibly need to beat back primary challenges from the extreme right.

Divided government can work to put brakes on the party in most control, but it needs to be practical and realistic. Elections matter.

[cradleandshoot]

Question: how do you think this Speaker fight resolves?

Here we go...https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

Dems made a mistake. They won’t like the vacuum this creates I feel pretty confident. Even if McCarthy is a doughnut.

I wondered about this too, while reading the news this morning. McCarthy was the moron we knew (I like doughnuts, and they have some utility, so I don't want to call him that). Rather than keeping their powder dry and their performance art mouths shut, GOP House members were, last night and this morning, calling for Trump to be Speaker, and issuing demands and conditions on anyone who might run for the Speakership. Anna Paulina Luna, QR of Florida, laid down three conditions:

“I will vote for the Speaker [1] who publicly and clearly commits to defunding Jack Smith’s anti-American election interference witch hunts and [2] subpoenas Hunter Biden while [3] bringing a vote on impeachment of Joe Biden to the floor of the House.”

Pretty good idea to lay out an unworkable and implacable position in advance of a conference meeting when your party is in peril, when the country is realizing that you cannot even get players in place, to say nothing of govern?

After the 6-20 firebrands scream and shout and make demands alienating everyone else, I think the Problem Solvers Caucus eventually puts together a set of commitments and rule changes that puts either one of their own or someone like Tom Cole in place, with Dem crossover support sufficient to exceed the 218.

The rational people in the GOP, whether actual conservatives or moderates, will mostly join that coalition, though some of the more conservative may feel compelled to side with the hard right burn down the house types, given the policy compromises this will entail and the threat of primary challenges. Likewise, some of the most progressive on the Dem side may not be able to crossover, given some of those same policy compromises.

But I suspect the PS Caucus members are already talking in the aftermath of the mess that went down yesterday. Both sides of that caucus have to be appalled at the idea of the extreme dominating going forward.

Apparently (according to McCarthy), last January Pelosi had assured McCarthy that the Dems would prevent the far right from controlling the Speakership when push came to shove, as she had assured Boehner and Ryan...but McCarthy blew the trust down the stretch and his comments blaming Dems over the weekend was the nail in the coffin.

But that doesn't mean they aren't willing to help build a consensus Leadership with R's in charge...but with some power sharing and demonstrated willingness to compromise on various issues. A solid majority on both sides believe supporting Ukraine is essential...R's want tough border policies, the Dems want more dollars for judges and personnel and more legal immigration...there's a deal to be made as Biden and the Dems don't want this issue to persist into the 2024 election cycle with the current sense that they're soft on the border. There's probably a similar set of compromises around crime...and voting...

And of course, these can be largely done within the budget parameters set last spring, albeit with some emergency funding and Ukraine funding.

The extreme will howl, but they're earning a whole lot of animosity from within the GOP Caucus as it is. It's probably the only way the most vulnerable GOP House members have a chance of holding their seats in a general, though they'll possibly need to beat back primary challenges from the extreme right.

Divided government can work to put brakes on the party in most control, but it needs to be practical and realistic. Elections matter.

Too bad neither party has figured out a way to put the brakes on spending. That ship sailed a long time ago never to be seen again. I don't ever want to hear any of these politicians whining about the need to be fiscally responsible. The theory of fiscal responsibility is dead and gone and buried.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Question: how do you think this Speaker fight resolves?

Here we go...https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

Dems made a mistake. They won’t like the vacuum this creates I feel pretty confident. Even if McCarthy is a doughnut.

I wondered about this too, while reading the news this morning. McCarthy was the moron we knew (I like doughnuts, and they have some utility, so I don't want to call him that). Rather than keeping their powder dry and their performance art mouths shut, GOP House members were, last night and this morning, calling for Trump to be Speaker, and issuing demands and conditions on anyone who might run for the Speakership. Anna Paulina Luna, QR of Florida, laid down three conditions:

“I will vote for the Speaker [1] who publicly and clearly commits to defunding Jack Smith’s anti-American election interference witch hunts and [2] subpoenas Hunter Biden while [3] bringing a vote on impeachment of Joe Biden to the floor of the House.”

Pretty good idea to lay out an unworkable and implacable position in advance of a conference meeting when your party is in peril, when the country is realizing that you cannot even get players in place, to say nothing of govern?

After the 6-20 firebrands scream and shout and make demands alienating everyone else, I think the Problem Solvers Caucus eventually puts together a set of commitments and rule changes that puts either one of their own or someone like Tom Cole in place, with Dem crossover support sufficient to exceed the 218.

The rational people in the GOP, whether actual conservatives or moderates, will mostly join that coalition, though some of the more conservative may feel compelled to side with the hard right burn down the house types, given the policy compromises this will entail and the threat of primary challenges. Likewise, some of the most progressive on the Dem side may not be able to crossover, given some of those same policy compromises.

But I suspect the PS Caucus members are already talking in the aftermath of the mess that went down yesterday. Both sides of that caucus have to be appalled at the idea of the extreme dominating going forward.

Apparently (according to McCarthy), last January Pelosi had assured McCarthy that the Dems would prevent the far right from controlling the Speakership when push came to shove, as she had assured Boehner and Ryan...but McCarthy blew the trust down the stretch and his comments blaming Dems over the weekend was the nail in the coffin.

But that doesn't mean they aren't willing to help build a consensus Leadership with R's in charge...but with some power sharing and demonstrated willingness to compromise on various issues. A solid majority on both sides believe supporting Ukraine is essential...R's want tough border policies, the Dems want more dollars for judges and personnel and more legal immigration...there's a deal to be made as Biden and the Dems don't want this issue to persist into the 2024 election cycle with the current sense that they're soft on the border. There's probably a similar set of compromises around crime...and voting...

And of course, these can be largely done within the budget parameters set last spring, albeit with some emergency funding and Ukraine funding.

The extreme will howl, but they're earning a whole lot of animosity from within the GOP Caucus as it is. It's probably the only way the most vulnerable GOP House members have a chance of holding their seats in a general, though they'll possibly need to beat back primary challenges from the extreme right.

Divided government can work to put brakes on the party in most control, but it needs to be practical and realistic. Elections matter.

Good post. I agree that there is a deal to be made, but the likelihood of such a deal seems very remote given the hard-liners' early statements, like the one I posted above, and the absolute intensity of the base that they have created against "working with Democrats." In a government structurally created to force and strike deals made in the name of consensus, working with Democrats is the death knell of a GOP politicians career, or at least an expensive primary from the "right." In order for it to work -- a coalition of sorts -- part of the erstwhile GOP caucus actually will need to step out of those straightjackets and into the fire.

[PizzaSnake]

Question: how do you think this Speaker fight resolves?

Here we go...https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

Dems made a mistake. They won’t like the vacuum this creates I feel pretty confident. Even if McCarthy is a doughnut.

I wondered about this too, while reading the news this morning. McCarthy was the moron we knew (I like doughnuts, and they have some utility, so I don't want to call him that). Rather than keeping their powder dry and their performance art mouths shut, GOP House members were, last night and this morning, calling for Trump to be Speaker, and issuing demands and conditions on anyone who might run for the Speakership. Anna Paulina Luna, QR of Florida, laid down three conditions:

“I will vote for the Speaker [1] who publicly and clearly commits to defunding Jack Smith’s anti-American election interference witch hunts and [2] subpoenas Hunter Biden while [3] bringing a vote on impeachment of Joe Biden to the floor of the House.”

Pretty good idea to lay out an unworkable and implacable position in advance of a conference meeting when your party is in peril, when the country is realizing that you cannot even get players in place, to say nothing of govern?

After the 6-20 firebrands scream and shout and make demands alienating everyone else, I think the Problem Solvers Caucus eventually puts together a set of commitments and rule changes that puts either one of their own or someone like Tom Cole in place, with Dem crossover support sufficient to exceed the 218.

The rational people in the GOP, whether actual conservatives or moderates, will mostly join that coalition, though some of the more conservative may feel compelled to side with the hard right burn down the house types, given the policy compromises this will entail and the threat of primary challenges. Likewise, some of the most progressive on the Dem side may not be able to crossover, given some of those same policy compromises.

But I suspect the PS Caucus members are already talking in the aftermath of the mess that went down yesterday. Both sides of that caucus have to be appalled at the idea of the extreme dominating going forward.

Apparently (according to McCarthy), last January Pelosi had assured McCarthy that the Dems would prevent the far right from controlling the Speakership when push came to shove, as she had assured Boehner and Ryan...but McCarthy blew the trust down the stretch and his comments blaming Dems over the weekend was the nail in the coffin.

But that doesn't mean they aren't willing to help build a consensus Leadership with R's in charge...but with some power sharing and demonstrated willingness to compromise on various issues. A solid majority on both sides believe supporting Ukraine is essential...R's want tough border policies, the Dems want more dollars for judges and personnel and more legal immigration...there's a deal to be made as Biden and the Dems don't want this issue to persist into the 2024 election cycle with the current sense that they're soft on the border. There's probably a similar set of compromises around crime...and voting...

And of course, these can be largely done within the budget parameters set last spring, albeit with some emergency funding and Ukraine funding.

The extreme will howl, but they're earning a whole lot of animosity from within the GOP Caucus as it is. It's probably the only way the most vulnerable GOP House members have a chance of holding their seats in a general, though they'll possibly need to beat back primary challenges from the extreme right.

Divided government can work to put brakes on the party in most control, but it needs to be practical and realistic. Elections matter.

Too bad neither party has figured out a way to put the brakes on spending. That ship sailed a long time ago never to be seen again. I don't ever want to hear any of these politicians whining about the need to be fiscally responsible. The theory of fiscal responsibility is dead and gone and buried.

Um, generate more revenue? Balance spending with income? If not, what do you propose cutting?

How have the Ronnie RayGuns tax breaks and their successors benefited America?

Oh, all of the jobs waiting down at the unicorn corral?

[MDlaxfan76]

Question: how do you think this Speaker fight resolves?

Here we go...https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

Dems made a mistake. They won’t like the vacuum this creates I feel pretty confident. Even if McCarthy is a doughnut.

I wondered about this too, while reading the news this morning. McCarthy was the moron we knew (I like doughnuts, and they have some utility, so I don't want to call him that). Rather than keeping their powder dry and their performance art mouths shut, GOP House members were, last night and this morning, calling for Trump to be Speaker, and issuing demands and conditions on anyone who might run for the Speakership. Anna Paulina Luna, QR of Florida, laid down three conditions:

“I will vote for the Speaker [1] who publicly and clearly commits to defunding Jack Smith’s anti-American election interference witch hunts and [2] subpoenas Hunter Biden while [3] bringing a vote on impeachment of Joe Biden to the floor of the House.”

Pretty good idea to lay out an unworkable and implacable position in advance of a conference meeting when your party is in peril, when the country is realizing that you cannot even get players in place, to say nothing of govern?

After the 6-20 firebrands scream and shout and make demands alienating everyone else, I think the Problem Solvers Caucus eventually puts together a set of commitments and rule changes that puts either one of their own or someone like Tom Cole in place, with Dem crossover support sufficient to exceed the 218.

The rational people in the GOP, whether actual conservatives or moderates, will mostly join that coalition, though some of the more conservative may feel compelled to side with the hard right burn down the house types, given the policy compromises this will entail and the threat of primary challenges. Likewise, some of the most progressive on the Dem side may not be able to crossover, given some of those same policy compromises.

But I suspect the PS Caucus members are already talking in the aftermath of the mess that went down yesterday. Both sides of that caucus have to be appalled at the idea of the extreme dominating going forward.

Apparently (according to McCarthy), last January Pelosi had assured McCarthy that the Dems would prevent the far right from controlling the Speakership when push came to shove, as she had assured Boehner and Ryan...but McCarthy blew the trust down the stretch and his comments blaming Dems over the weekend was the nail in the coffin.

But that doesn't mean they aren't willing to help build a consensus Leadership with R's in charge...but with some power sharing and demonstrated willingness to compromise on various issues. A solid majority on both sides believe supporting Ukraine is essential...R's want tough border policies, the Dems want more dollars for judges and personnel and more legal immigration...there's a deal to be made as Biden and the Dems don't want this issue to persist into the 2024 election cycle with the current sense that they're soft on the border. There's probably a similar set of compromises around crime...and voting...

And of course, these can be largely done within the budget parameters set last spring, albeit with some emergency funding and Ukraine funding.

The extreme will howl, but they're earning a whole lot of animosity from within the GOP Caucus as it is. It's probably the only way the most vulnerable GOP House members have a chance of holding their seats in a general, though they'll possibly need to beat back primary challenges from the extreme right.

Divided government can work to put brakes on the party in most control, but it needs to be practical and realistic. Elections matter.

Good post. I agree that there is a deal to be made, but the likelihood of such a deal seems very remote given the hard-liners' early statements, like the one I posted above, and the absolute intensity of the base that they have created against "working with Democrats." In a government structurally created to force and strike deals made in the name of consensus, working with Democrats is the death knell of a GOP politicians career, or at least an expensive primary from the "right." In order for it to work -- a coalition of sorts -- part of the erstwhile GOP caucus actually will need to step out of those straightjackets and into the fire.

Yes, but the alternative for the moderates and Ukraine supporters looks even worse. Maybe it's a kick the can down the road mentality that gets them stuck with a long government shutdown and failure to support Ukraine and stupid impeachment hearings ad infinitum, but I think those who are used to working across the aisle are very likely looking to how they can aggregate enough support to make that work...I don't think we see that fully emerge until the R's screw the pooch some more, with it being obvious why they can't let the extreme rule. Maybe Jim Jordan takes it on, but if he doesn't shut down the government the extreme won't let him stay and if he doesn't put up a vote to fund Ukraine I can see the moderates taking him down. Scalise has the same problem, though his style would be less inflammatory than Jordan. I think Scalise would be stupid to take it without rule changes. Jordan might be willing.

So, better to be prepared next week with what those compromises and rule changes would need to be. Might not put that forward right away, but it'll likely be floated...you already see Dems signaling openness.

[PizzaSnake]

Question: how do you think this Speaker fight resolves?

Here we go...https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

Dems made a mistake. They won’t like the vacuum this creates I feel pretty confident. Even if McCarthy is a doughnut.

I wondered about this too, while reading the news this morning. McCarthy was the moron we knew (I like doughnuts, and they have some utility, so I don't want to call him that). Rather than keeping their powder dry and their performance art mouths shut, GOP House members were, last night and this morning, calling for Trump to be Speaker, and issuing demands and conditions on anyone who might run for the Speakership. Anna Paulina Luna, QR of Florida, laid down three conditions:

“I will vote for the Speaker [1] who publicly and clearly commits to defunding Jack Smith’s anti-American election interference witch hunts and [2] subpoenas Hunter Biden while [3] bringing a vote on impeachment of Joe Biden to the floor of the House.”

Pretty good idea to lay out an unworkable and implacable position in advance of a conference meeting when your party is in peril, when the country is realizing that you cannot even get players in place, to say nothing of govern?

After the 6-20 firebrands scream and shout and make demands alienating everyone else, I think the Problem Solvers Caucus eventually puts together a set of commitments and rule changes that puts either one of their own or someone like Tom Cole in place, with Dem crossover support sufficient to exceed the 218.

The rational people in the GOP, whether actual conservatives or moderates, will mostly join that coalition, though some of the more conservative may feel compelled to side with the hard right burn down the house types, given the policy compromises this will entail and the threat of primary challenges. Likewise, some of the most progressive on the Dem side may not be able to crossover, given some of those same policy compromises.

But I suspect the PS Caucus members are already talking in the aftermath of the mess that went down yesterday. Both sides of that caucus have to be appalled at the idea of the extreme dominating going forward.

Apparently (according to McCarthy), last January Pelosi had assured McCarthy that the Dems would prevent the far right from controlling the Speakership when push came to shove, as she had assured Boehner and Ryan...but McCarthy blew the trust down the stretch and his comments blaming Dems over the weekend was the nail in the coffin.

But that doesn't mean they aren't willing to help build a consensus Leadership with R's in charge...but with some power sharing and demonstrated willingness to compromise on various issues. A solid majority on both sides believe supporting Ukraine is essential...R's want tough border policies, the Dems want more dollars for judges and personnel and more legal immigration...there's a deal to be made as Biden and the Dems don't want this issue to persist into the 2024 election cycle with the current sense that they're soft on the border. There's probably a similar set of compromises around crime...and voting...

And of course, these can be largely done within the budget parameters set last spring, albeit with some emergency funding and Ukraine funding.

The extreme will howl, but they're earning a whole lot of animosity from within the GOP Caucus as it is. It's probably the only way the most vulnerable GOP House members have a chance of holding their seats in a general, though they'll possibly need to beat back primary challenges from the extreme right.

Divided government can work to put brakes on the party in most control, but it needs to be practical and realistic. Elections matter.

Good post. I agree that there is a deal to be made, but the likelihood of such a deal seems very remote given the hard-liners' early statements, like the one I posted above, and the absolute intensity of the base that they have created against "working with Democrats." In a government structurally created to force and strike deals made in the name of consensus, working with Democrats is the death knell of a GOP politicians career, or at least an expensive primary from the "right." In order for it to work -- a coalition of sorts -- part of the erstwhile GOP caucus actually will need to step out of those straightjackets and into the fire.

Yes, but the alternative for the moderates and Ukraine supporters looks even worse. Maybe it's a kick the can down the road mentality that gets them stuck with a long government shutdown and failure to support Ukraine and stupid impeachment hearings ad infinitum, but I think those who are used to working across the aisle are very likely looking to how they can aggregate enough support to make that work...I don't think we see that fully emerge until the R's screw the pooch some more, with it being obvious why they can't let the extreme rule. Maybe Jim Jordan takes it on, but if he doesn't shut down the government the extreme won't let him stay and if he doesn't put up a vote to fund Ukraine I can see the moderates taking him down. Scalise has the same problem, though his style would be less inflammatory than Jordan. I think Scalise would be stupid to take it without rule changes. Jordan might be willing.

So, better to be prepared next week with what those compromises and rule changes would need to be. Might not put that forward right away, but it'll likely be floated...you already see Dems signaling openness.

“better to be prepared”

Prepared for a shutdown. I continue to be amazed at how fragile our governance is. I’d like to think it is Putin’s well-placed bribery and kompromat, but probably just an inevitable result of the intersection of demographics (aging Boomers) and unrealized aspirations. Sure can see the antelope as it passes through the snake.

[Farfromgeneva]

Seacoaster has it right but Youth misses.
Trump will be nominated and elected speaker. He accepts so that he can howl at all the witnesses lining up to put him behind bars. With immunity thanks to Speech and Debate clause. Oh the injustice.
Meanwhile his former chief of staff is spelling out in black and white/all caps how repugnant our 45th president was in office. As if it hasn't been obvious since the 80s that the man is an ass and a fraud. Republicans don't care and overwhelming back him as their next presidential nominee. GOP collapse due to demographics needs to happen yesterday or else the mediocre pinheads they keep electing will destroy our country.
Meanwhile democrats are losing working class people because too many young ones would rather be holier than thou than win elections.
This has been ringing true for four years now:
https://youtu.be/KGmXGkIr7w0?si=9FFjqC8FpboRm_ER

Not a Bo Burnham guy but this sounds about right and I applaud the effective use of Youtube. Welcome.

[Farfromgeneva]

Question: how do you think this Speaker fight resolves?

Here we go...https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

Dems made a mistake. They won’t like the vacuum this creates I feel pretty confident. Even if McCarthy is a doughnut.

I wondered about this too, while reading the news this morning. McCarthy was the moron we knew (I like doughnuts, and they have some utility, so I don't want to call him that). Rather than keeping their powder dry and their performance art mouths shut, GOP House members were, last night and this morning, calling for Trump to be Speaker, and issuing demands and conditions on anyone who might run for the Speakership. Anna Paulina Luna, QR of Florida, laid down three conditions:

“I will vote for the Speaker [1] who publicly and clearly commits to defunding Jack Smith’s anti-American election interference witch hunts and [2] subpoenas Hunter Biden while [3] bringing a vote on impeachment of Joe Biden to the floor of the House.”

Pretty good idea to lay out an unworkable and implacable position in advance of a conference meeting when your party is in peril, when the country is realizing that you cannot even get players in place, to say nothing of govern?

While I can advocate for Boston creme the point is they are empty in the middle typically.

[cradleandshoot]

Question: how do you think this Speaker fight resolves?

Here we go...https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

Dems made a mistake. They won’t like the vacuum this creates I feel pretty confident. Even if McCarthy is a doughnut.

I wondered about this too, while reading the news this morning. McCarthy was the moron we knew (I like doughnuts, and they have some utility, so I don't want to call him that). Rather than keeping their powder dry and their performance art mouths shut, GOP House members were, last night and this morning, calling for Trump to be Speaker, and issuing demands and conditions on anyone who might run for the Speakership. Anna Paulina Luna, QR of Florida, laid down three conditions:

“I will vote for the Speaker [1] who publicly and clearly commits to defunding Jack Smith’s anti-American election interference witch hunts and [2] subpoenas Hunter Biden while [3] bringing a vote on impeachment of Joe Biden to the floor of the House.”

Pretty good idea to lay out an unworkable and implacable position in advance of a conference meeting when your party is in peril, when the country is realizing that you cannot even get players in place, to say nothing of govern?

After the 6-20 firebrands scream and shout and make demands alienating everyone else, I think the Problem Solvers Caucus eventually puts together a set of commitments and rule changes that puts either one of their own or someone like Tom Cole in place, with Dem crossover support sufficient to exceed the 218.

The rational people in the GOP, whether actual conservatives or moderates, will mostly join that coalition, though some of the more conservative may feel compelled to side with the hard right burn down the house types, given the policy compromises this will entail and the threat of primary challenges. Likewise, some of the most progressive on the Dem side may not be able to crossover, given some of those same policy compromises.

But I suspect the PS Caucus members are already talking in the aftermath of the mess that went down yesterday. Both sides of that caucus have to be appalled at the idea of the extreme dominating going forward.

Apparently (according to McCarthy), last January Pelosi had assured McCarthy that the Dems would prevent the far right from controlling the Speakership when push came to shove, as she had assured Boehner and Ryan...but McCarthy blew the trust down the stretch and his comments blaming Dems over the weekend was the nail in the coffin.

But that doesn't mean they aren't willing to help build a consensus Leadership with R's in charge...but with some power sharing and demonstrated willingness to compromise on various issues. A solid majority on both sides believe supporting Ukraine is essential...R's want tough border policies, the Dems want more dollars for judges and personnel and more legal immigration...there's a deal to be made as Biden and the Dems don't want this issue to persist into the 2024 election cycle with the current sense that they're soft on the border. There's probably a similar set of compromises around crime...and voting...

And of course, these can be largely done within the budget parameters set last spring, albeit with some emergency funding and Ukraine funding.

The extreme will howl, but they're earning a whole lot of animosity from within the GOP Caucus as it is. It's probably the only way the most vulnerable GOP House members have a chance of holding their seats in a general, though they'll possibly need to beat back primary challenges from the extreme right.

Divided government can work to put brakes on the party in most control, but it needs to be practical and realistic. Elections matter.

Too bad neither party has figured out a way to put the brakes on spending. That ship sailed a long time ago never to be seen again. I don't ever want to hear any of these politicians whining about the need to be fiscally responsible. The theory of fiscal responsibility is dead and gone and buried.

Um, generate more revenue? Balance spending with income? If not, what do you propose cutting?

How have the Ronnie RayGuns tax breaks and their successors benefited America?

Oh, all of the jobs waiting down at the unicorn corral?

You raise more revenue by increasing taxes. You cut spending by doing so across the board to include the defense budget. The god damn navy has a destroyer being upgraded in dry dock they have wasted 100s of millions on that the navy admitted will never sail again. Maybe the god damn navy should have made that decision before whizzing away 100s of millions of taxpayer dollars. FTR, when you find a Democrat or Republican that wants to run for election promising to raise taxes that individual will have a very short political career. Washington DC is a seive that has mastered the art of whizzing away taxpayer money with zero RoI. Why should they care? It isn't their money and nobody will ever be held accountable for whizzing it away. I remember way back in the olden days when Congress would create a budget for federal spending. In todays America the country eeks by on continuing resolutions. Harry Truman had that plaque on his desk that said " the buck stops here" Do any of you folks out there on this forum know or can explain where the buck stops today? There is no one in Washington DC with the courage to accept that responsibility. These are the people our nation has trusted with our future. They are mostly incompetent even on their best day.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Question: how do you think this Speaker fight resolves?

Here we go...https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

Dems made a mistake. They won’t like the vacuum this creates I feel pretty confident. Even if McCarthy is a doughnut.

I wondered about this too, while reading the news this morning. McCarthy was the moron we knew (I like doughnuts, and they have some utility, so I don't want to call him that). Rather than keeping their powder dry and their performance art mouths shut, GOP House members were, last night and this morning, calling for Trump to be Speaker, and issuing demands and conditions on anyone who might run for the Speakership. Anna Paulina Luna, QR of Florida, laid down three conditions:

“I will vote for the Speaker [1] who publicly and clearly commits to defunding Jack Smith’s anti-American election interference witch hunts and [2] subpoenas Hunter Biden while [3] bringing a vote on impeachment of Joe Biden to the floor of the House.”

Pretty good idea to lay out an unworkable and implacable position in advance of a conference meeting when your party is in peril, when the country is realizing that you cannot even get players in place, to say nothing of govern?

After the 6-20 firebrands scream and shout and make demands alienating everyone else, I think the Problem Solvers Caucus eventually puts together a set of commitments and rule changes that puts either one of their own or someone like Tom Cole in place, with Dem crossover support sufficient to exceed the 218.

The rational people in the GOP, whether actual conservatives or moderates, will mostly join that coalition, though some of the more conservative may feel compelled to side with the hard right burn down the house types, given the policy compromises this will entail and the threat of primary challenges. Likewise, some of the most progressive on the Dem side may not be able to crossover, given some of those same policy compromises.

But I suspect the PS Caucus members are already talking in the aftermath of the mess that went down yesterday. Both sides of that caucus have to be appalled at the idea of the extreme dominating going forward.

Apparently (according to McCarthy), last January Pelosi had assured McCarthy that the Dems would prevent the far right from controlling the Speakership when push came to shove, as she had assured Boehner and Ryan...but McCarthy blew the trust down the stretch and his comments blaming Dems over the weekend was the nail in the coffin.

But that doesn't mean they aren't willing to help build a consensus Leadership with R's in charge...but with some power sharing and demonstrated willingness to compromise on various issues. A solid majority on both sides believe supporting Ukraine is essential...R's want tough border policies, the Dems want more dollars for judges and personnel and more legal immigration...there's a deal to be made as Biden and the Dems don't want this issue to persist into the 2024 election cycle with the current sense that they're soft on the border. There's probably a similar set of compromises around crime...and voting...

And of course, these can be largely done within the budget parameters set last spring, albeit with some emergency funding and Ukraine funding.

The extreme will howl, but they're earning a whole lot of animosity from within the GOP Caucus as it is. It's probably the only way the most vulnerable GOP House members have a chance of holding their seats in a general, though they'll possibly need to beat back primary challenges from the extreme right.

Divided government can work to put brakes on the party in most control, but it needs to be practical and realistic. Elections matter.

Too bad neither party has figured out a way to put the brakes on spending. That ship sailed a long time ago never to be seen again. I don't ever want to hear any of these politicians whining about the need to be fiscally responsible. The theory of fiscal responsibility is dead and gone and buried.

Um, generate more revenue? Balance spending with income? If not, what do you propose cutting?

How have the Ronnie RayGuns tax breaks and their successors benefited America?

Oh, all of the jobs waiting down at the unicorn corral?

You raise more revenue by increasing taxes. You cut spending by doing so across the board to include the defense budget. The god damn navy has a destroyer being upgraded in dry dock they have wasted 100s of millions on that the navy admitted will never sail again. Maybe the god damn navy should have made that decision before whizzing away 100s of millions of taxpayer dollars. FTR, when you find a Democrat or Republican that wants to run for election promising to raise taxes that individual will have a very short political career. Washington DC is a seive that has mastered the art of whizzing away taxpayer money with zero RoI. Why should they care? It isn't their money and nobody will ever be held accountable for whizzing it away. I remember way back in the olden days when Congress would create a budget for federal spending. In todays America the country eeks by on continuing resolutions. Harry Truman had that plaque on his desk that said " the buck stops here" Do any of you folks out there on this forum know or can explain where the buck stops today? There is no one in Washington DC with the courage to accept that responsibility. These are the people our nation has trusted with our future. They are mostly incompetent even on their best day.

You should run for office to save us from this incompetence and venality.

[cradleandshoot]

Question: how do you think this Speaker fight resolves?

Here we go...https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

Dems made a mistake. They won’t like the vacuum this creates I feel pretty confident. Even if McCarthy is a doughnut.

I wondered about this too, while reading the news this morning. McCarthy was the moron we knew (I like doughnuts, and they have some utility, so I don't want to call him that). Rather than keeping their powder dry and their performance art mouths shut, GOP House members were, last night and this morning, calling for Trump to be Speaker, and issuing demands and conditions on anyone who might run for the Speakership. Anna Paulina Luna, QR of Florida, laid down three conditions:

“I will vote for the Speaker [1] who publicly and clearly commits to defunding Jack Smith’s anti-American election interference witch hunts and [2] subpoenas Hunter Biden while [3] bringing a vote on impeachment of Joe Biden to the floor of the House.”

Pretty good idea to lay out an unworkable and implacable position in advance of a conference meeting when your party is in peril, when the country is realizing that you cannot even get players in place, to say nothing of govern?

While I can advocate for Boston creme the point is they are empty in the middle typically.

The national donut should be the apple fritter. No other option even comes close. Dunking a fry cake in a cup of coffee is okay if the damn thing doesn't break off and fall to the bottom of the cup.

[cradleandshoot]

Question: how do you think this Speaker fight resolves?

Here we go...https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

Dems made a mistake. They won’t like the vacuum this creates I feel pretty confident. Even if McCarthy is a doughnut.

I wondered about this too, while reading the news this morning. McCarthy was the moron we knew (I like doughnuts, and they have some utility, so I don't want to call him that). Rather than keeping their powder dry and their performance art mouths shut, GOP House members were, last night and this morning, calling for Trump to be Speaker, and issuing demands and conditions on anyone who might run for the Speakership. Anna Paulina Luna, QR of Florida, laid down three conditions:

“I will vote for the Speaker [1] who publicly and clearly commits to defunding Jack Smith’s anti-American election interference witch hunts and [2] subpoenas Hunter Biden while [3] bringing a vote on impeachment of Joe Biden to the floor of the House.”

Pretty good idea to lay out an unworkable and implacable position in advance of a conference meeting when your party is in peril, when the country is realizing that you cannot even get players in place, to say nothing of govern?

After the 6-20 firebrands scream and shout and make demands alienating everyone else, I think the Problem Solvers Caucus eventually puts together a set of commitments and rule changes that puts either one of their own or someone like Tom Cole in place, with Dem crossover support sufficient to exceed the 218.

The rational people in the GOP, whether actual conservatives or moderates, will mostly join that coalition, though some of the more conservative may feel compelled to side with the hard right burn down the house types, given the policy compromises this will entail and the threat of primary challenges. Likewise, some of the most progressive on the Dem side may not be able to crossover, given some of those same policy compromises.

But I suspect the PS Caucus members are already talking in the aftermath of the mess that went down yesterday. Both sides of that caucus have to be appalled at the idea of the extreme dominating going forward.

Apparently (according to McCarthy), last January Pelosi had assured McCarthy that the Dems would prevent the far right from controlling the Speakership when push came to shove, as she had assured Boehner and Ryan...but McCarthy blew the trust down the stretch and his comments blaming Dems over the weekend was the nail in the coffin.

But that doesn't mean they aren't willing to help build a consensus Leadership with R's in charge...but with some power sharing and demonstrated willingness to compromise on various issues. A solid majority on both sides believe supporting Ukraine is essential...R's want tough border policies, the Dems want more dollars for judges and personnel and more legal immigration...there's a deal to be made as Biden and the Dems don't want this issue to persist into the 2024 election cycle with the current sense that they're soft on the border. There's probably a similar set of compromises around crime...and voting...

And of course, these can be largely done within the budget parameters set last spring, albeit with some emergency funding and Ukraine funding.

The extreme will howl, but they're earning a whole lot of animosity from within the GOP Caucus as it is. It's probably the only way the most vulnerable GOP House members have a chance of holding their seats in a general, though they'll possibly need to beat back primary challenges from the extreme right.

Divided government can work to put brakes on the party in most control, but it needs to be practical and realistic. Elections matter.

Too bad neither party has figured out a way to put the brakes on spending. That ship sailed a long time ago never to be seen again. I don't ever want to hear any of these politicians whining about the need to be fiscally responsible. The theory of fiscal responsibility is dead and gone and buried.

Um, generate more revenue? Balance spending with income? If not, what do you propose cutting?

How have the Ronnie RayGuns tax breaks and their successors benefited America?

Oh, all of the jobs waiting down at the unicorn corral?

You raise more revenue by increasing taxes. You cut spending by doing so across the board to include the defense budget. The god damn navy has a destroyer being upgraded in dry dock they have wasted 100s of millions on that the navy admitted will never sail again. Maybe the god damn navy should have made that decision before whizzing away 100s of millions of taxpayer dollars. FTR, when you find a Democrat or Republican that wants to run for election promising to raise taxes that individual will have a very short political career. Washington DC is a seive that has mastered the art of whizzing away taxpayer money with zero RoI. Why should they care? It isn't their money and nobody will ever be held accountable for whizzing it away. I remember way back in the olden days when Congress would create a budget for federal spending. In todays America the country eeks by on continuing resolutions. Harry Truman had that plaque on his desk that said " the buck stops here" Do any of you folks out there on this forum know or can explain where the buck stops today? There is no one in Washington DC with the courage to accept that responsibility. These are the people our nation has trusted with our future. They are mostly incompetent even on their best day.

You should run for office to save us from this incompetence and venality.

No way Jose, like yourself I'm too damn old. Thirty years ago I might have given a chit. Thirty years ago nobody living in this country would have ever envisioned a national debt of 33 trillion and heading strait up. I could run but I know you would never vote for me and who would walk Roxy? BTW I was thinking of you a couple of days ago. There was an article on TV about a number of Beagles rescued from some barbaric testing lab in Virginia. They were adorable and every dog found a new home. I hope you find a new 4 legged friend. You can never replace a pet you loved dearly but Roxy was the medicine I needed. There is nothing like dog breath in your face at 4:30 am

[MDlaxfan76]

Question: how do you think this Speaker fight resolves?

Here we go...https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

Dems made a mistake. They won’t like the vacuum this creates I feel pretty confident. Even if McCarthy is a doughnut.

I wondered about this too, while reading the news this morning. McCarthy was the moron we knew (I like doughnuts, and they have some utility, so I don't want to call him that). Rather than keeping their powder dry and their performance art mouths shut, GOP House members were, last night and this morning, calling for Trump to be Speaker, and issuing demands and conditions on anyone who might run for the Speakership. Anna Paulina Luna, QR of Florida, laid down three conditions:

“I will vote for the Speaker [1] who publicly and clearly commits to defunding Jack Smith’s anti-American election interference witch hunts and [2] subpoenas Hunter Biden while [3] bringing a vote on impeachment of Joe Biden to the floor of the House.”

Pretty good idea to lay out an unworkable and implacable position in advance of a conference meeting when your party is in peril, when the country is realizing that you cannot even get players in place, to say nothing of govern?

After the 6-20 firebrands scream and shout and make demands alienating everyone else, I think the Problem Solvers Caucus eventually puts together a set of commitments and rule changes that puts either one of their own or someone like Tom Cole in place, with Dem crossover support sufficient to exceed the 218.

The rational people in the GOP, whether actual conservatives or moderates, will mostly join that coalition, though some of the more conservative may feel compelled to side with the hard right burn down the house types, given the policy compromises this will entail and the threat of primary challenges. Likewise, some of the most progressive on the Dem side may not be able to crossover, given some of those same policy compromises.

But I suspect the PS Caucus members are already talking in the aftermath of the mess that went down yesterday. Both sides of that caucus have to be appalled at the idea of the extreme dominating going forward.

Apparently (according to McCarthy), last January Pelosi had assured McCarthy that the Dems would prevent the far right from controlling the Speakership when push came to shove, as she had assured Boehner and Ryan...but McCarthy blew the trust down the stretch and his comments blaming Dems over the weekend was the nail in the coffin.

But that doesn't mean they aren't willing to help build a consensus Leadership with R's in charge...but with some power sharing and demonstrated willingness to compromise on various issues. A solid majority on both sides believe supporting Ukraine is essential...R's want tough border policies, the Dems want more dollars for judges and personnel and more legal immigration...there's a deal to be made as Biden and the Dems don't want this issue to persist into the 2024 election cycle with the current sense that they're soft on the border. There's probably a similar set of compromises around crime...and voting...

And of course, these can be largely done within the budget parameters set last spring, albeit with some emergency funding and Ukraine funding.

The extreme will howl, but they're earning a whole lot of animosity from within the GOP Caucus as it is. It's probably the only way the most vulnerable GOP House members have a chance of holding their seats in a general, though they'll possibly need to beat back primary challenges from the extreme right.

Divided government can work to put brakes on the party in most control, but it needs to be practical and realistic. Elections matter.

Good post. I agree that there is a deal to be made, but the likelihood of such a deal seems very remote given the hard-liners' early statements, like the one I posted above, and the absolute intensity of the base that they have created against "working with Democrats." In a government structurally created to force and strike deals made in the name of consensus, working with Democrats is the death knell of a GOP politicians career, or at least an expensive primary from the "right." In order for it to work -- a coalition of sorts -- part of the erstwhile GOP caucus actually will need to step out of those straightjackets and into the fire.

Yes, but the alternative for the moderates and Ukraine supporters looks even worse. Maybe it's a kick the can down the road mentality that gets them stuck with a long government shutdown and failure to support Ukraine and stupid impeachment hearings ad infinitum, but I think those who are used to working across the aisle are very likely looking to how they can aggregate enough support to make that work...I don't think we see that fully emerge until the R's screw the pooch some more, with it being obvious why they can't let the extreme rule. Maybe Jim Jordan takes it on, but if he doesn't shut down the government the extreme won't let him stay and if he doesn't put up a vote to fund Ukraine I can see the moderates taking him down. Scalise has the same problem, though his style would be less inflammatory than Jordan. I think Scalise would be stupid to take it without rule changes. Jordan might be willing.

So, better to be prepared next week with what those compromises and rule changes would need to be. Might not put that forward right away, but it'll likely be floated...you already see Dems signaling openness.

“better to be prepared”

Prepared for a shutdown. I continue to be amazed at how fragile our governance is. I’d like to think it is Putin’s well-placed bribery and kompromat, but probably just an inevitable result of the intersection of demographics (aging Boomers) and unrealized aspirations. Sure can see the antelope as it passes through the snake.

Yes, if Jordan gets the reins, that's what we should expect. And probably a long shutdown. If he take the gig, it will be subservient to the right wing extremists...and we see their demands...

The blowback will be disastrous for the moderates in the GOP in vulnerable districts and damage the brand heavily...but not among the knuckleheads who get a thrill from theatrics and fireworks. And that's what millions of their small dollar MAGA donors want.

We'll also likely see disaster for Ukraine as well. Putin is cheering.

While this will benefit Dems electorally in a year, I think most of the elected Dems are more concerned about the good of the country in the meantime. Not all, but most.

Fingers crossed for the rational folks in both sides to get together and bring some sanity.