Is Lacrosse an "Aristocrat Sport?"

[molo]

Merle Haggard said, “If you go runnin’ down my country, then you’re walking on the fightin’ side of me.”
When you’re talking about boarding schools, you’re touching the aristocrat side. Aristocrat was a bad choice of words, but the sport isn’t doing much to counteract the elitist image.

[10stone5]

I don't know if it is, disregarding the actual fact there's no official aristocracy in the US.

One thing I find interesting as an argument it's not aristocratic is the emphasis put on lax schools as an inside track to Wall Street. (Am I overestimating this?). I think if the sport really is for the upper-uppers there wouldn't be such an emphasis on filthy lucre. It's unseemly, don'tcha know.

It was more of a feeder when the sales/trading side was more robust especially before public equities were completely commoditized and central clearing in agency MBS and the decline in securitized products from the 2000s took out the FI sales/trading. Was historically less of a Corp finance feeder which is a different skill set. Lots of guys from 80s-90s and early 2000s got into that route. Less robust funnel today.

I'm not sure if the Lacrosse channel to a lucrative Trading Desk gig fading is a good thing or a bad thing.

Here's what I know:

Context: I don't golf or enjoy sitting on a very big boat very much, and I'm divorced, and I love lacrosse, and I'm a pretty experienced ref, so my idea of a splendid weekend is a trip to a 2- or 3-day Offseason Lax Tournament and a half dozen or more games-a-day while I'm there. It's simultaneously exhausting and clarifying, I suppose.

Observations: We take rooms at the best hotel in town. Every morning we ride the elevator to the lobby and share breakfast space with kids-in-uniform and their attendant adults. We find our rental amongst their expensive S-Class and Escalade rides. When we get to the Park there are very few vehicles in the lot that don't declare loudly "Wealth".

Activities: I talk to 'rents between games. Most are doing what they can and spending what they need to get Junior into the best school they can. Ivies, ACC, NESCAC, Georgetown, Hop, Haverford....ya know. And most of the 'rents who recognize me are from the bobblehead fields. I'm old and slow....

Lacrosse matters there, so it matters for these attentive 'rents.

Conclusion: These 'rents aren't necessarily Aristocrats, but they appear to be generational wealth families with six figure personal incomes and they're taking their parenting responsibilities seriously. "If Junior loves to play lacrosse, let's see where that takes us..."

They were lucrative, not as much these days. Debt is all on Trace now and the money center/global banks have all retreated since the financial crisis. Equities, even the long/short fund route which is much harder to get to without being exceptional is a tough gig. Private credit is the new play now but those gig require more both analytical and metaphysical qualities than a typical MBS/ABS sales guy in 2003 or 1995. Lot of kids get great sheepskins from lacrosse but not all degrees and underlyng recipients are equal if you catch my drift. If it's sell bonds on a golf course, shooting range, etc with a client or be a D3/D1 assistant coach and camp/clinic hustler to make $50 - $100k for a decade is the alternative it's a good thing.

I come from a upstate NY background on this though. If you come from Baldwinsville or Corning East type places and can get a great degree, that's cool but then use it to improve your lot.

Shoulda kept buying Gold - the real stuff, not the paper.

[Farfromgeneva]

I don't know if it is, disregarding the actual fact there's no official aristocracy in the US.

One thing I find interesting as an argument it's not aristocratic is the emphasis put on lax schools as an inside track to Wall Street. (Am I overestimating this?). I think if the sport really is for the upper-uppers there wouldn't be such an emphasis on filthy lucre. It's unseemly, don'tcha know.

It was more of a feeder when the sales/trading side was more robust especially before public equities were completely commoditized and central clearing in agency MBS and the decline in securitized products from the 2000s took out the FI sales/trading. Was historically less of a Corp finance feeder which is a different skill set. Lots of guys from 80s-90s and early 2000s got into that route. Less robust funnel today.

I'm not sure if the Lacrosse channel to a lucrative Trading Desk gig fading is a good thing or a bad thing.

Here's what I know:

Context: I don't golf or enjoy sitting on a very big boat very much, and I'm divorced, and I love lacrosse, and I'm a pretty experienced ref, so my idea of a splendid weekend is a trip to a 2- or 3-day Offseason Lax Tournament and a half dozen or more games-a-day while I'm there. It's simultaneously exhausting and clarifying, I suppose.

Observations: We take rooms at the best hotel in town. Every morning we ride the elevator to the lobby and share breakfast space with kids-in-uniform and their attendant adults. We find our rental amongst their expensive S-Class and Escalade rides. When we get to the Park there are very few vehicles in the lot that don't declare loudly "Wealth".

Activities: I talk to 'rents between games. Most are doing what they can and spending what they need to get Junior into the best school they can. Ivies, ACC, NESCAC, Georgetown, Hop, Haverford....ya know. And most of the 'rents who recognize me are from the bobblehead fields. I'm old and slow....

Lacrosse matters there, so it matters for these attentive 'rents.

Conclusion: These 'rents aren't necessarily Aristocrats, but they appear to be generational wealth families with six figure personal incomes and they're taking their parenting responsibilities seriously. "If Junior loves to play lacrosse, let's see where that takes us..."

They were lucrative, not as much these days. Debt is all on Trace now and the money center/global banks have all retreated since the financial crisis. Equities, even the long/short fund route which is much harder to get to without being exceptional is a tough gig. Private credit is the new play now but those gig require more both analytical and metaphysical qualities than a typical MBS/ABS sales guy in 2003 or 1995. Lot of kids get great sheepskins from lacrosse but not all degrees and underlyng recipients are equal if you catch my drift. If it's sell bonds on a golf course, shooting range, etc with a client or be a D3/D1 assistant coach and camp/clinic hustler to make $50 - $100k for a decade is the alternative it's a good thing.

I come from a upstate NY background on this though. If you come from Baldwinsville or Corning East type places and can get a great degree, that's cool but then use it to improve your lot.

Shoulda kept buying Gold - the real stuff, not the paper.

https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/Goldmember

[3rdPersonPlural]

Then perhaps “generational wealth” was not the best reference given the large numbers of people who do not have access to it. Anyway thanks

Probably could have gotten by without “generational”..

Could have, sure, but I report what I see.

I don't have generational wealth either.

[MDlaxfan76]

Then perhaps “generational wealth” was not the best reference given the large numbers of people who do not have access to it. Anyway thanks

Probably could have gotten by without “generational”..

Could have, sure, but I report what I see.

I don't have generational wealth either.

Seems to me that bearlaxfan is correct that the truly multi-generational wealth folks aren't worried about their kids' access to "elite" schools and careers through lacrosse. While some of their kids do play, it's not because of the "elite" access (or at least hasn't been). They have that in other ways. Making it easy for them to not emphasize "filthy lucre"...

But that's multi-generational. First generation wealth is much more likely to be acutely tuned to how to maintain that wealth, to attain those access points for their children, as wealth may feel much more fluid and impermanent. Thus all sorts of "signaling" of status through conspicuous consumption, and a quite rational emphasis on pathways to provide "elite" education. After all, what is wealth for if not to gain access for one's children...

I think this is especially true for families in which sports have played a significant role in the parents' lives, whether having provided them with some access, or because it aligns with their competitive personalities.

Lacrosse has been one such pathway for those first generation wealth families. And it may be one that persists a bit longer, as legacy admissions get cut or eliminated as an admission factor.

So, maybe it's better to say that lacrosse attracts wealth or "elite" aspiring families...those who see that pathway, either because they'd used it or similar themselves, knew someone who had done so, or just happened to get exposed at some point and their kid was recognized early on and given a leg up...

aspiring...

[SCLaxAttack]

I find it interesting that 5-10 years ago discussions were about laxbro culture and now we're throwing around elitist/aristocrat. Are these one and the same?

[bearlaxfan]

I find it interesting that 5-10 years ago discussions were about laxbro culture and now we're throwing around elitist/aristocrat. Are these one and the same?

Don't think so. IIRC the laxbro stuff was about the players' (and I guess hangers'-on) style; (personal opinion warning!) ugly shorts, the "right" hairstyle, even fracking socks etc. Adolescent pop culture being hawked by older, richer, not wiser equipment manufacturers etc. Hope some startups with real younglings managed to tap in and get a start in the industry at least. Not really about who plays, where they come from, where they're going etc like the current aristo yes/no is about.

And I don't want to sound too much like a "get off my grass" old; as a fisherman I realize "fishing lures are designed to catch fishermen, not fish." So gearhead-ism isn't foreign to me.

[SCLaxAttack]

I find it interesting that 5-10 years ago discussions were about laxbro culture and now we're throwing around elitist/aristocrat. Are these one and the same?

Don't think so. IIRC the laxbro stuff was about the players' (and I guess hangers'-on) style; (personal opinion warning!) ugly shorts, the "right" hairstyle, even fracking socks etc. Adolescent pop culture being hawked by older, richer, not wiser equipment manufacturers etc. Hope some startups with real younglings managed to tap in and get a start in the industry at least. Not really about who plays, where they come from, where they're going etc like the current aristo yes/no is about.

And I don't want to sound too much like a "get off my grass" old; as a fisherman I realize "fishing lures are designed to catch fishermen, not fish." So gearhead-ism isn't foreign to me.

Your explanation for why it's not is my reason for believing they're linked. You only get to be the cool guy if you are a member of the elite.

[molo]

But is it possible to be an aristocrat ad be cool? Think King Charles and family. Are there any less cool people on the face if the earth?

[wgdsr]

But is it possible to be an aristocrat ad be cool? Think King Charles and family. Are there any less cool people on the face if the earth?

wrong audience.

although i did appreciate bearlaxfan's post.

[nyjay]

There is certainly a private school vibe for kids who end up playing college lax. And I get that. But anyone who’s ever been to a summer club tournament on Long Island knows that the premise of this thread is - at best - misleading.

[SCLaxAttack]

But is it possible to be an aristocrat ad be cool? Think King Charles and family. Are there any less cool people on the face if the earth?

If it could get me a Kate Middleton…

[HooDat]

There is certainly a private school vibe for kids who end up playing college lax. And I get that. But anyone who’s ever been to a summer club tournament on Long Island knows that the premise of this thread is - at best - misleading.

^^^^ yep

[Typical Lax Dad]

There is certainly a private school vibe for kids who end up playing college lax. And I get that. But anyone who’s ever been to a summer club tournament on Long Island knows that the premise of this thread is - at best - misleading.

^^^^ yep

How about “wannabe” aristocrats!!

[blue angels]

The #1 Boy's HS team in the nation, Lawrenceville, just completed their annual fundraiser and they raised $475 million from just over 7,000 donors...

Chump change compared to what last year's #1 HS boys program can raise specifically for sports with all that Under Armor money. They raised almost as much from 1/7000th the number of donors.

Hardly chump change.

Under Armour is large but let’s at least scale it: Sub $6Bn in rev and that’s with heavily stuffing their channels if you see retail inventory issues and a mkt cap where $475mm would represent 8-9% of that.

It’s more than I’ve got but when everyone goes “all
That under armour money” seems relevant to actually out some scale around it.

plank donated $16 million 8 years ago is all i could find.

$475 million in one pledge drive is absurd. for 1,000 enrollment? 90+% of their students are likely gonna be convinced they hit triples. watch out for that crew.

I don't think it's an annual fundraiser. That level for a prep is almost always a multi-year campaign where they get whales like Tsai to kick it off with some major pledges and the follow up over a period of 3-5 years to achieve the stated goal.

don't believe it's an annual fundraiser, either. it's still a lot of $$?

but so when you say "that level is almost always"... is that level common? who else has raised half a billion in one pledge drive?

Andover just finished their capital campaign and raised $409 million. They had no individual gift as large as Joe Tsai, but more large gifts. Lawrenceville's largest gift prior to Tsai's rumored +/- $100 million was $60 million. Andover's endowment is well over $1 billion similar to Exeter before this campaign was completed.