Duke Fans

[DocBarrister]

Interesting discussion.

I was predisposed to not be rooting for ND yesterday, but my son talked me around to it before the game. Will come back to that.

I'd never been a fan of Corrigan's demeanor (I liked how he handled questions yesterday).

And I thought there was way too much "whining" by ND fans (but really the "lax media") about the "snub". I was in the "just win" camp about their exclusion on the bubble (though I didn't think Harvard had the season to truly deserve being in). I'm not on some of the other social media stuff, so didn't see directly the misogyny etc, but heard about it. Not ok in the slightest.

But I'm also in the camp of "best teams should be in". And the current system really doesn't produce that. So, that offsets my "just win" position. It's complicated.

But really what bothered me was the announcers' non-stop promotion of ND...on the other hand, I think the team using the "snub" as motivation is exactly the right way to handle that sort of thing, building strength through some adversity.

So, some loudmouth fans are not the same thing as the team recognizing that "leave no doubt" is a force multiplier...

And I'd heard the "Kavanagh's are dirty players" accusation....wasn't sure what to make of that...

My son (a Harvard alum) argued the position that "best teams should be in" and that the intensity the Kav brothers play is what he always wanted on his teams. That willingness to go all out, use everything in the arsenal ...to win.

He'd played with Conor Doyle, who had exactly that sort of intensity (some funny stories there!) and with Garett Epple who played rather viciously, good for a penalty or two per game...but my son loved having him on his club teams. I remember feeling the same way about a guy I'd played with the opponents all hated...but I knew as an incredibly passionate player...he left it all out on the field.

We very much enjoyed Liam Entenmann's performance throughout the game, really special, and the very smart, disciplined, but opportunistic defense ND played throughout.

I loved Pat Kavanagh's post-game remarks, absolutely crushed it IMO.

So, congratulations!

+1000

DocBarrister

[MDlaxfan76]

Interesting discussion.

I was predisposed to not be rooting for ND yesterday, but my son talked me around to it before the game. Will come back to that.

I'd never been a fan of Corrigan's demeanor (I liked how he handled questions yesterday).

And I thought there was way too much "whining" by ND fans (but really the "lax media") about the "snub". I was in the "just win" camp about their exclusion on the bubble (though I didn't think Harvard had the season to truly deserve being in). I'm not on some of the other social media stuff, so didn't see directly the misogyny etc, but heard about it. Not ok in the slightest.

But I'm also in the camp of "best teams should be in". And the current system really doesn't produce that. So, that offsets my "just win" position. It's complicated.

But really what bothered me was the announcers' non-stop promotion of ND...on the other hand, I think the team using the "snub" as motivation is exactly the right way to handle that sort of thing, building strength through some adversity.

So, some loudmouth fans are not the same thing as the team recognizing that "leave no doubt" is a force multiplier...

And I'd heard the "Kavanagh's are dirty players" accusation....wasn't sure what to make of that...

My son (a Harvard alum) argued the position that "best teams should be in" and that the intensity the Kav brothers play is what he always wanted on his teams. That willingness to go all out, use everything in the arsenal ...to win.

He'd played with Conor Doyle, who had exactly that sort of intensity (some funny stories there!) and with Garett Epple who played rather viciously, good for a penalty or two per game...but my son loved having him on his club teams. I remember feeling the same way about a guy I'd played with the opponents all hated...but I knew as an incredibly passionate player...he left it all out on the field.

We very much enjoyed Liam Entenmann's performance throughout the game, really special, and the very smart, disciplined, but opportunistic defense ND played throughout.

I loved Pat Kavanagh's post-game remarks, absolutely crushed it IMO.

So, congratulations!

+1000

DocBarrister

Just watched this, interview with Pat Kavanagh starts about 25 minutes in. Chris makes an appearance as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEq5k1wXhKY

Knuckleheads who don't know anything about lax, but enthusiasm was high.

I didn't like Pat complaining as much about last year's "snub", though clearly that was prompted...coulda handled that a bit more gracefully, but clearly that's how he feels.

And he let a bunch of the stuff about "nerd schools" go unaddressed...what, Notre Dame ain't a highly selective school now? The anti-Ivy bias stuff from the questioners was unnecessary... and the "Catholic" thing was weird...

IMO, Pat's big miss was when he was asked about other players joining the team who made a difference...that was a lay-up to mention guys like Fake and Tevlin who played huge roles this year...could have rebutted the Ivy thing with that...but obviously he was just going with the flow and probably more than a little hungover!

Fun overall.

[jersey shore lax]

And I'd heard the "Kavanagh's are dirty players" accusation....wasn't sure what to make of that...

if Pat Kavanagh is on your team you say he plays with heart and if he is an opponent you say he is dirty, personally I would want 10 Pat Kavanaghs on my team any day.

As far as dirty, I thought Duke was head hunting yesterday, The hit on Chris Kavanagh could have been an ejection (IMHO) and another one on Lynch was not called but looked pretty bad as well.

Entenmann was one of the best games by a goalie I think I have ever seen, the saves were both quantity and quality.

[MDlaxfan76]

And I'd heard the "Kavanagh's are dirty players" accusation....wasn't sure what to make of that...

if Pat Kavanagh is on your team you say he plays with heart and if he is an opponent you say he is dirty, personally I would want 10 Pat Kavanaghs on my team any day.

As far as dirty, I thought Duke was head hunting yesterday, The hit on Chris Kavanagh could have been an ejection (IMHO) and another one on Lynch was not called but looked pretty bad as well.

Entenmann was one of the best games by a goalie I think I have ever seen, the saves were both quantity and quality.

Agreed on both the first and third paras.

I wouldn't go so far as to call those hits that way, but only because I don't know what is in each person's mind.

Absolutely deserved the 2 minutes unreleasable, and certainly could have been more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnvz5i4My9Y

Extremely hard head to head. Dangerous.

[keno in reno]

Never been a Corrigan fan (for the same reason so many people hated Maryland's Gary Williams), but I was impressed with his humility in the immediate interview. Actually I was impressed with the Jesus Bros. immediately after the game as well (haven't seen the official NCAA interview though).

This weekend was the first time I can recall that a team literally won the national championship due in large part to dominant riding and ground balls.. That aggressiveness totally set the tone for the game.

Also, how the hell was Yale's defense so awful last year?

[Laxter]

Interesting discussion.

I was predisposed to not be rooting for ND yesterday, but my son talked me around to it before the game. Will come back to that.

I'd never been a fan of Corrigan's demeanor (I liked how he handled questions yesterday).

And I thought there was way too much "whining" by ND fans (but really the "lax media") about the "snub". I was in the "just win" camp about their exclusion on the bubble (though I didn't think Harvard had the season to truly deserve being in). I'm not on some of the other social media stuff, so didn't see directly the misogyny etc, but heard about it. Not ok in the slightest.

But I'm also in the camp of "best teams should be in". And the current system really doesn't produce that. So, that offsets my "just win" position. It's complicated.

But really what bothered me was the announcers' non-stop promotion of ND...on the other hand, I think the team using the "snub" as motivation is exactly the right way to handle that sort of thing, building strength through some adversity.

So, some loudmouth fans are not the same thing as the team recognizing that "leave no doubt" is a force multiplier...

And I'd heard the "Kavanagh's are dirty players" accusation....wasn't sure what to make of that...

My son (a Harvard alum) argued the position that "best teams should be in" and that the intensity the Kav brothers play is what he always wanted on his teams. That willingness to go all out, use everything in the arsenal ...to win.

He'd played with Conor Doyle, who had exactly that sort of intensity (some funny stories there!) and with Garett Epple who played rather viciously, good for a penalty or two per game...but my son loved having him on his club teams. I remember feeling the same way about a guy I'd played with the opponents all hated...but I knew as an incredibly passionate player...he left it all out on the field.

We very much enjoyed Liam Entenmann's performance throughout the game, really special, and the very smart, disciplined, but opportunistic defense ND played throughout.

I loved Pat Kavanagh's post-game remarks, absolutely crushed it IMO.

So, congratulations!

I have seen the accusation as well, though never saw a dirty play myself. I do think that hard-riding attackmen sometimes take a big one-handed swing, especially close to midfield, will little hope of actually disloding the ball. Maybe that should be called a slash. As far as dirty players, I saw two instances of head-hunting yesterday, neither by ND players.

Watch the first UVa game then. One Kav knocked Sallade to the ground from behind with a cross check and the other cross checked him in the head while he tried to get up. Good classy play. They did seem to dial it down in the subsequent matchups.

[Bart]

Never been a Corrigan fan (for the same reason so many people hated Maryland's Gary Williams), but I was impressed with his humility in the immediate interview. Actually I was impressed with the Jesus Bros. immediately after the game as well (haven't seen the official NCAA interview though).

This weekend was the first time I can recall that a team literally won the national championship due in large part to dominant riding and ground balls.. That aggressiveness totally set the tone for the game.

Also, how the hell was Yale's defense so awful last year?

Yale didn’t have a goalie making 18 save’s perhaps?

[DocBarrister]

And I'd heard the "Kavanagh's are dirty players" accusation....wasn't sure what to make of that...

if Pat Kavanagh is on your team you say he plays with heart and if he is an opponent you say he is dirty, personally I would want 10 Pat Kavanaghs on my team any day.

As far as dirty, I thought Duke was head hunting yesterday, The hit on Chris Kavanagh could have been an ejection (IMHO) and another one on Lynch was not called but looked pretty bad as well.

Entenmann was one of the best games by a goalie I think I have ever seen, the saves were both quantity and quality.

Agreed on both the first and third paras.

I wouldn't go so far as to call those hits that way, but only because I don't know what is in each person's mind.

Absolutely deserved the 2 minutes unreleasable, and certainly could have been more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnvz5i4My9Y

Extremely hard head to head. Dangerous.

In college football that hit would be targeting and the Duke player would have been thrown out of the game.

DocBarrister

[44WeWantMore]

And he already had stitches from the previous game.

Somebody explained on the ND-Duke game thread (I think it was there) why a concussion protocol is not automatic, but maybe the standard protocol should be reviewed.

[Chousnake]

Interesting discussion.

I was predisposed to not be rooting for ND yesterday, but my son talked me around to it before the game. Will come back to that.

I'd never been a fan of Corrigan's demeanor (I liked how he handled questions yesterday).

And I thought there was way too much "whining" by ND fans (but really the "lax media") about the "snub". I was in the "just win" camp about their exclusion on the bubble (though I didn't think Harvard had the season to truly deserve being in). I'm not on some of the other social media stuff, so didn't see directly the misogyny etc, but heard about it. Not ok in the slightest.

But I'm also in the camp of "best teams should be in". And the current system really doesn't produce that. So, that offsets my "just win" position. It's complicated.

But really what bothered me was the announcers' non-stop promotion of ND...on the other hand, I think the team using the "snub" as motivation is exactly the right way to handle that sort of thing, building strength through some adversity.

So, some loudmouth fans are not the same thing as the team recognizing that "leave no doubt" is a force multiplier...

And I'd heard the "Kavanagh's are dirty players" accusation....wasn't sure what to make of that...

My son (a Harvard alum) argued the position that "best teams should be in" and that the intensity the Kav brothers play is what he always wanted on his teams. That willingness to go all out, use everything in the arsenal ...to win.

He'd played with Conor Doyle, who had exactly that sort of intensity (some funny stories there!) and with Garett Epple who played rather viciously, good for a penalty or two per game...but my son loved having him on his club teams. I remember feeling the same way about a guy I'd played with the opponents all hated...but I knew as an incredibly passionate player...he left it all out on the field.

We very much enjoyed Liam Entenmann's performance throughout the game, really special, and the very smart, disciplined, but opportunistic defense ND played throughout.

I loved Pat Kavanagh's post-game remarks, absolutely crushed it IMO.

So, congratulations!

+1000

DocBarrister

Just watched this, interview with Pat Kavanagh starts about 25 minutes in. Chris makes an appearance as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEq5k1wXhKY

Knuckleheads who don't know anything about lax, but enthusiasm was high.

I didn't like Pat complaining as much about last year's "snub", though clearly that was prompted...coulda handled that a bit more gracefully, but clearly that's how he feels.

And he let a bunch of the stuff about "nerd schools" go unaddressed...what, Notre Dame ain't a highly selective school now? The anti-Ivy bias stuff from the questioners was unnecessary... and the "Catholic" thing was weird...

IMO, Pat's big miss was when he was asked about other players joining the team who made a difference...that was a lay-up to mention guys like Fake and Tevlin who played huge roles this year...could have rebutted the Ivy thing with that...but obviously he was just going with the flow and probably more than a little hungover!

Fun overall.

As they say, winning reveals character. That interview was pretty classless. The best college teams are in the ACC and Big 10 and the the Ivy teams are “frauds “ and “nerds?” Blaming the lack of a bid last year on the “woman from Dartmouth?” This coming from a kid from Chaminade ? So the athletes on Yale, Cornell, Princeton, Penn deserve that from this kid? Some of those "nerds" and "frauds" were his teammates and were instrumental in the win yesterday. Not a good look, even considering it was on McAfee.

[relaxedfan]

Did anyone notice that after the ref threw the flag he got up smiled and put his helmet back on without having to adjust the straps? If your helmet can come on and off that easy it's the same as all those dives people complain about while watching World Cup Soccer. I don't think anyone wants to go back to the head hunting days of yore but it is and should remain a contact sport. The Duke defender lead with his shoulder but finished with his head. Penalty for sure. Not wearing your helmet properly is also supposed to be a penalty.

[CU77]

I think we can all agree the Ivy didn't deserve 6 teams

No, we certainly cannot "all agree" to that.

[youthathletics]

And I'd heard the "Kavanagh's are dirty players" accusation....wasn't sure what to make of that...

if Pat Kavanagh is on your team you say he plays with heart and if he is an opponent you say he is dirty, personally I would want 10 Pat Kavanaghs on my team any day.

As far as dirty, I thought Duke was head hunting yesterday, The hit on Chris Kavanagh could have been an ejection (IMHO) and another one on Lynch was not called but looked pretty bad as well.

Entenmann was one of the best games by a goalie I think I have ever seen, the saves were both quantity and quality.

Agreed on both the first and third paras.

I wouldn't go so far as to call those hits that way, but only because I don't know what is in each person's mind.

Absolutely deserved the 2 minutes unreleasable, and certainly could have been more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnvz5i4My9Y

Extremely hard head to head. Dangerous.

In college football that hit would be targeting and the Duke player would have been thrown out of the game.

DocBarrister

No doubt about it. Those fussing that NCAA Lacrosse does not have concussion protocol, certainly should first fuss that contact like that to the head should be an immediate ejection; just as you note in the college football game. At least in the CF the helmets are designed to absorb helmet to helmet contact. To make matters even worse, lacrosse helmets are designed to primarily take the impact of the lacrosse ball along with incidental contact....not a fuggin' head shot right in the ear hole with multiple steps of momentum from the crown of an opposing player.

Slowmo starts at 1:23: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnvz5i4My9Y

It's quite common knowledge to intentionally go after the top opposing players....I recall seeing plenty of this stuff, notably.....Sowers, Sankey, and now Kav.....funny how you seldom see them go after the big boys; its really a complain move, but I get it, its lacrosse.

[youthathletics]

Did anyone notice that after the ref threw the flag he got up smiled and put his helmet back on without having to adjust the straps? If your helmet can come on and off that easy it's the same as all those dives people complain about while watching World Cup Soccer. I don't think anyone wants to go back to the head hunting days of yore but it is and should remain a contact sport. The Duke defender lead with his shoulder but finished with his head. Penalty for sure. Not wearing your helmet properly is also supposed to be a penalty.

I suppose you'd rather him get up crying with blood oozing from his ears or better yet have a Damar Hamlin incident.

[MDlaxfan76]

Interesting discussion.

I was predisposed to not be rooting for ND yesterday, but my son talked me around to it before the game. Will come back to that.

I'd never been a fan of Corrigan's demeanor (I liked how he handled questions yesterday).

And I thought there was way too much "whining" by ND fans (but really the "lax media") about the "snub". I was in the "just win" camp about their exclusion on the bubble (though I didn't think Harvard had the season to truly deserve being in). I'm not on some of the other social media stuff, so didn't see directly the misogyny etc, but heard about it. Not ok in the slightest.

But I'm also in the camp of "best teams should be in". And the current system really doesn't produce that. So, that offsets my "just win" position. It's complicated.

But really what bothered me was the announcers' non-stop promotion of ND...on the other hand, I think the team using the "snub" as motivation is exactly the right way to handle that sort of thing, building strength through some adversity.

So, some loudmouth fans are not the same thing as the team recognizing that "leave no doubt" is a force multiplier...

And I'd heard the "Kavanagh's are dirty players" accusation....wasn't sure what to make of that...

My son (a Harvard alum) argued the position that "best teams should be in" and that the intensity the Kav brothers play is what he always wanted on his teams. That willingness to go all out, use everything in the arsenal ...to win.

He'd played with Conor Doyle, who had exactly that sort of intensity (some funny stories there!) and with Garett Epple who played rather viciously, good for a penalty or two per game...but my son loved having him on his club teams. I remember feeling the same way about a guy I'd played with the opponents all hated...but I knew as an incredibly passionate player...he left it all out on the field.

We very much enjoyed Liam Entenmann's performance throughout the game, really special, and the very smart, disciplined, but opportunistic defense ND played throughout.

I loved Pat Kavanagh's post-game remarks, absolutely crushed it IMO.

So, congratulations!

+1000

DocBarrister

Just watched this, interview with Pat Kavanagh starts about 25 minutes in. Chris makes an appearance as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEq5k1wXhKY

Knuckleheads who don't know anything about lax, but enthusiasm was high.

I didn't like Pat complaining as much about last year's "snub", though clearly that was prompted...coulda handled that a bit more gracefully, but clearly that's how he feels.

And he let a bunch of the stuff about "nerd schools" go unaddressed...what, Notre Dame ain't a highly selective school now? The anti-Ivy bias stuff from the questioners was unnecessary... and the "Catholic" thing was weird...

IMO, Pat's big miss was when he was asked about other players joining the team who made a difference...that was a lay-up to mention guys like Fake and Tevlin who played huge roles this year...could have rebutted the Ivy thing with that...but obviously he was just going with the flow and probably more than a little hungover!

Fun overall.

As they say, winning reveals character. That interview was pretty classless. The best college teams are in the ACC and Big 10 and the the Ivy teams are “frauds “ and “nerds?” Blaming the lack of a bid last year on the “woman from Dartmouth?” This coming from a kid from Chaminade ? So the athletes on Yale, Cornell, Princeton, Penn deserve that from this kid? Some of those "nerds" and "frauds" were his teammates and were instrumental in the win yesterday. Not a good look, even considering it was on McAfee.

As I said, I thought the post game he knocked out of the park...however, this was disappointing. I give him half a pass, though, as he's very likely very hung over, and got caught up in the locker room style talk, which was all supposed to be "humor". But yeah, disappointing.

[MDlaxfan76]

Did anyone notice that after the ref threw the flag he got up smiled and put his helmet back on without having to adjust the straps? If your helmet can come on and off that easy it's the same as all those dives people complain about while watching World Cup Soccer. I don't think anyone wants to go back to the head hunting days of yore but it is and should remain a contact sport. The Duke defender lead with his shoulder but finished with his head. Penalty for sure. Not wearing your helmet properly is also supposed to be a penalty.

I suppose you'd rather him get up crying with blood oozing from his ears or better yet have a Damar Hamlin incident.

+1; I watched it several times, and (though I don't know what was in the hitter's thoughts), it was very much head to head, no shoulder involved.

And no, he was clearly badly shaken. Is he a tough kid? sure.
Who is lucky to not be susceptible to concussions? Probably so.
That's a grimace, not a smile.

But the hit was egregious.

[MDlaxfan76]

I think we can all agree the Ivy didn't deserve 6 teams

No, we certainly cannot "all agree" to that.

+1.

Under the system, that's simply how it shook out.

We can argue that the system doesn't put the top 16 teams in the bracket, but the issue wasn't the Ivies, it's the AQ's that are not in the top 20 teams, yet in the tourney.

[DocBarrister]

And I'd heard the "Kavanagh's are dirty players" accusation....wasn't sure what to make of that...

if Pat Kavanagh is on your team you say he plays with heart and if he is an opponent you say he is dirty, personally I would want 10 Pat Kavanaghs on my team any day.

As far as dirty, I thought Duke was head hunting yesterday, The hit on Chris Kavanagh could have been an ejection (IMHO) and another one on Lynch was not called but looked pretty bad as well.

Entenmann was one of the best games by a goalie I think I have ever seen, the saves were both quantity and quality.

Agreed on both the first and third paras.

I wouldn't go so far as to call those hits that way, but only because I don't know what is in each person's mind.

Absolutely deserved the 2 minutes unreleasable, and certainly could have been more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnvz5i4My9Y

Extremely hard head to head. Dangerous.

In college football that hit would be targeting and the Duke player would have been thrown out of the game.

DocBarrister

No doubt about it. Those fussing that NCAA Lacrosse does not have concussion protocol, certainly should first fuss that contact like that to the head should be an immediate ejection; just as you note in the college football game. At least in the CF the helmets are designed to absorb helmet to helmet contact. To make matters even worse, lacrosse helmets are designed to primarily take the impact of the lacrosse ball along with incidental contact....not a fuggin' head shot right in the ear hole with multiple steps of momentum from the crown of an opposing player.

Slowmo starts at 1:23: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnvz5i4My9Y

It's quite common knowledge to intentionally go after the top opposing players....I recall seeing plenty of this stuff, notably.....Sowers, Sankey, and now Kav.....funny how you seldom see them go after the big boys; its really a complain move, but I get it, its lacrosse.

Would not be surprised if the NCAA lax rules committee eventually implements a targeting penalty similar to the one used in college football.

DocBarrister

[Can Opener]

And I'd heard the "Kavanagh's are dirty players" accusation....wasn't sure what to make of that...

if Pat Kavanagh is on your team you say he plays with heart and if he is an opponent you say he is dirty, personally I would want 10 Pat Kavanaghs on my team any day.

As far as dirty, I thought Duke was head hunting yesterday, The hit on Chris Kavanagh could have been an ejection (IMHO) and another one on Lynch was not called but looked pretty bad as well.

Entenmann was one of the best games by a goalie I think I have ever seen, the saves were both quantity and quality.

Agreed on both the first and third paras.

I wouldn't go so far as to call those hits that way, but only because I don't know what is in each person's mind.

Absolutely deserved the 2 minutes unreleasable, and certainly could have been more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnvz5i4My9Y

Extremely hard head to head. Dangerous.

In college football that hit would be targeting and the Duke player would have been thrown out of the game.

DocBarrister

Agree 100%. Refs failed to do their primary job which is to ensure player safety.

[tech37]

And I'd heard the "Kavanagh's are dirty players" accusation....wasn't sure what to make of that...

if Pat Kavanagh is on your team you say he plays with heart and if he is an opponent you say he is dirty, personally I would want 10 Pat Kavanaghs on my team any day.

As far as dirty, I thought Duke was head hunting yesterday, The hit on Chris Kavanagh could have been an ejection (IMHO) and another one on Lynch was not called but looked pretty bad as well.

Entenmann was one of the best games by a goalie I think I have ever seen, the saves were both quantity and quality.

Agreed on both the first and third paras.

I wouldn't go so far as to call those hits that way, but only because I don't know what is in each person's mind.

Absolutely deserved the 2 minutes unreleasable, and certainly could have been more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnvz5i4My9Y

Extremely hard head to head. Dangerous.

In college football that hit would be targeting and the Duke player would have been thrown out of the game.

DocBarrister

Agree 100%. Refs failed to do their primary job which is to ensure player safety.

That's fine. Right after the rules committee addresses, all goals now reviewable, they can work on that.