Orange Duce

[jhu72]

..

The suit looks like it fits well. Orange Duce's fits more like Hermann Goring's. Fatso Hermann.

[MDlaxfan76]

Let me offer the following scenario to my fellow heterosexual males:

The CEO of your company is a fully 'out' gay man, big guy 50 lbs heavier than you, clear 'top'.

He comes up behind you, close, hands on your shoulders, sniffs your hair, kisses the top of your head.

No problem?

Now imagine being in a society where that's considered just 'affectionate', par for the course for those less powerful in that society. No recourse.

Having trouble imagining that society?...jail.

Biden's issue is that he still doesn't seem to fully comprehend this. If he doesn't figure this out soon, it's going to be the predicate narrative when opponents get to Anita Hill and a number of other issues.

There are other 'moderate/progressive' choices within the field. They don't have his name recognition, but that's not going to be an issue in a 2-way race with Trump.

Anita Hill is a much bigger issue for Biden than is this touch-y hug-y stuff. Hill and his history with the crime bill are his kryptonite.

And possibly this stuff implying special deals for son; foreign corruption.

The touch-y feely stuff, though, creates an impression of out of touch (hair sniffing?)...making the Anita Hill aspect all the more toxic.

IMO, the Dems need a sharper contrast with Trump.

They can win blue collar voters without Biden, they just need to not alienate them or take them for granted.

… and this is exactly the problem the democrat's hand ringing over this issue can potentially cause. This is why Biden could not retreat on Friday in his speech before those blue collar workers. You want to lose those voters, make this a litmus test issue. The democrats do not want to damage Biden, be seen taking him down in an unfair, unjust, questionable fashion. The dems have a similar problem with Bernie, the feeling among the young and the blue collar working class that the "party" doesn't like him and is unfair to him because he is not a registered democrat.

Which is why someone else needs to emerge who appeals to those voters in the Mid-West and PA. The blue fire wall is the big priority.

Regardless of how they feel about Biden not being an option, if they have someone who appeals positively to them, they can pull the lever for him/her or instead of Trump.

Bernie voters are a problem because they might not be satisfied with anyone not Bernie, though again, they'll show up to vote against Trump. But someone else needs to supercede Bernie, if it's not going to be Biden.

Same for folks of color. The candidate need only be appealing and not insensitive. He/she needn't be extreme.

Suburban and AA women voters are highly motivated against Trump. Don't piss them off and they're coming strong.

[old salt]

Any of you folks have any thoughts on Neilson's, umm, departure from the Trump Administration? Why it happened? What it means?

The reporting so far is that she was forced out, that Trump thought she wasn't tough enough on shutting down migrants.
She of the child separation, zero tolerance policy.

My opinion, Trump is flailing around, needs a scapegoat.
And Steven Miller (tell me he isn't straight from central casting for Nazis) is advocating for total shutdown, damn the law.

No more Kelly as an ally.

The family separation idea came from the Sessions/Miller brain trust.

Kelly & Nielsen advised against it, ...strenuously.
I'm surprised she lasted as long as she did.

[jhu72]

Let me offer the following scenario to my fellow heterosexual males:

The CEO of your company is a fully 'out' gay man, big guy 50 lbs heavier than you, clear 'top'.

He comes up behind you, close, hands on your shoulders, sniffs your hair, kisses the top of your head.

No problem?

Now imagine being in a society where that's considered just 'affectionate', par for the course for those less powerful in that society. No recourse.

Having trouble imagining that society?...jail.

Biden's issue is that he still doesn't seem to fully comprehend this. If he doesn't figure this out soon, it's going to be the predicate narrative when opponents get to Anita Hill and a number of other issues.

There are other 'moderate/progressive' choices within the field. They don't have his name recognition, but that's not going to be an issue in a 2-way race with Trump.

Is Bloomberg a personal space invader ? ...what's he waiting for ?

He is worse, a real billionaire (unlike Orange Duce - how is that for a distinction?). My young daughter, a rabid Bernie supporter, has a solution - eat them all, serve them for lunch and dinner until there are no more. She has friends, lots of them.

[jhu72]

Let me offer the following scenario to my fellow heterosexual males:

The CEO of your company is a fully 'out' gay man, big guy 50 lbs heavier than you, clear 'top'.

He comes up behind you, close, hands on your shoulders, sniffs your hair, kisses the top of your head.

No problem?

Now imagine being in a society where that's considered just 'affectionate', par for the course for those less powerful in that society. No recourse.

Having trouble imagining that society?...jail.

Biden's issue is that he still doesn't seem to fully comprehend this. If he doesn't figure this out soon, it's going to be the predicate narrative when opponents get to Anita Hill and a number of other issues.

There are other 'moderate/progressive' choices within the field. They don't have his name recognition, but that's not going to be an issue in a 2-way race with Trump.

Anita Hill is a much bigger issue for Biden than is this touch-y hug-y stuff. Hill and his history with the crime bill are his kryptonite.

And possibly this stuff implying special deals for son; foreign corruption.

The touch-y feely stuff, though, creates an impression of out of touch (hair sniffing?)...making the Anita Hill aspect all the more toxic.

IMO, the Dems need a sharper contrast with Trump.

They can win blue collar voters without Biden, they just need to not alienate them or take them for granted.

… and this is exactly the problem the democrat's hand ringing over this issue can potentially cause. This is why Biden could not retreat on Friday in his speech before those blue collar workers. You want to lose those voters, make this a litmus test issue. The democrats do not want to damage Biden, be seen taking him down in an unfair, unjust, questionable fashion. The dems have a similar problem with Bernie, the feeling among the young and the blue collar working class that the "party" doesn't like him and is unfair to him because he is not a registered democrat.

Which is why someone else needs to emerge who appeals to those voters in the Mid-West and PA. The blue fire wall is the big priority.

Regardless of how they feel about Biden not being an option, if they have someone who appeals positively to them, they can pull the lever for him/her or instead of Trump.

Bernie voters are a problem because they might not be satisfied with anyone not Bernie, though again, they'll show up to vote against Trump. But someone else needs to supercede Bernie, if it's not going to be Biden.

Same for folks of color. The candidate need only be appealing and not insensitive. He/she needn't be extreme.

Suburban and AA women voters are highly motivated against Trump. Don't tick them off and they're coming strong.

I am not so sure. Didn't work out so well in 2016. Of my kids friends almost all of them were Bernie supporters. 2 of my 3 voted against Trump, voted HRS wearing gas masks, the third didn't vote. The turnout among their friends was significantly less good with some even voting for Orange Duce. Don't see any of them voting for Orange Duce in a rematch, but not clear they will show up unless there is someone that resonates with them.

[MDlaxfan76]

Let me offer the following scenario to my fellow heterosexual males:

The CEO of your company is a fully 'out' gay man, big guy 50 lbs heavier than you, clear 'top'.

He comes up behind you, close, hands on your shoulders, sniffs your hair, kisses the top of your head.

No problem?

Now imagine being in a society where that's considered just 'affectionate', par for the course for those less powerful in that society. No recourse.

Having trouble imagining that society?...jail.

Biden's issue is that he still doesn't seem to fully comprehend this. If he doesn't figure this out soon, it's going to be the predicate narrative when opponents get to Anita Hill and a number of other issues.

There are other 'moderate/progressive' choices within the field. They don't have his name recognition, but that's not going to be an issue in a 2-way race with Trump.

Anita Hill is a much bigger issue for Biden than is this touch-y hug-y stuff. Hill and his history with the crime bill are his kryptonite.

And possibly this stuff implying special deals for son; foreign corruption.

The touch-y feely stuff, though, creates an impression of out of touch (hair sniffing?)...making the Anita Hill aspect all the more toxic.

IMO, the Dems need a sharper contrast with Trump.

They can win blue collar voters without Biden, they just need to not alienate them or take them for granted.

… and this is exactly the problem the democrat's hand ringing over this issue can potentially cause. This is why Biden could not retreat on Friday in his speech before those blue collar workers. You want to lose those voters, make this a litmus test issue. The democrats do not want to damage Biden, be seen taking him down in an unfair, unjust, questionable fashion. The dems have a similar problem with Bernie, the feeling among the young and the blue collar working class that the "party" doesn't like him and is unfair to him because he is not a registered democrat.

Which is why someone else needs to emerge who appeals to those voters in the Mid-West and PA. The blue fire wall is the big priority.

Regardless of how they feel about Biden not being an option, if they have someone who appeals positively to them, they can pull the lever for him/her or instead of Trump.

Bernie voters are a problem because they might not be satisfied with anyone not Bernie, though again, they'll show up to vote against Trump. But someone else needs to supercede Bernie, if it's not going to be Biden.

Same for folks of color. The candidate need only be appealing and not insensitive. He/she needn't be extreme.

Suburban and AA women voters are highly motivated against Trump. Don't tick them off and they're coming strong.

I am not so sure. Didn't work out so well in 2016. Of my kids friends almost all of them were Bernie supporters. 2 of my 3 voted against Trump, voted HRS wearing gas masks, the third didn't vote. The turnout among their friends was significantly less good with some even voting for Orange Duce. Don't see any of them voting for Orange Duce in a rematch, but not clear they will show up unless there is someone that resonates with them.

My theory on the 2016 turnout of those voters would be that HRC personified much of what Bernie had been railing about, the entitlement and arrogance of the 1% and their bought politicians.

Trump awful choice, but HRC too.

The Dems need to avoid that sort of problem.

If I was running the Dem Part I'd be hammering on corruption and lack of ethics all the way to November 2020.
So Much Material.

But they need a clean candidate.

[jhu72]

Any of you folks have any thoughts on Neilson's, umm, departure from the Trump Administration? Why it happened? What it means?

Looks like he is settling scores with Kelly people. Anyone who might respect the law, need not apply.

[a fan]

The Dems need to avoid that sort of problem.

If I was running the Dem Part I'd be hammering on corruption and lack of ethics all the way to November 2020.
So Much Material.

But they need a clean candidate.

I think the Dems are F'ed in 2020.

They need someone exciting enough to energize voters, but I think someone that Trump can easily paint as a socialist won't get enough moderates.

[jhu72]

The Dems need to avoid that sort of problem.

If I was running the Dem Part I'd be hammering on corruption and lack of ethics all the way to November 2020.
So Much Material.

But they need a clean candidate.

I think the Dems are F'ed in 2020.

They need someone exciting enough to energize voters, but I think someone that Trump can easily paint as a socialist won't get enough moderates.

Beto. An empty suit, but an exciting speaker. Going to be difficult to make a socialist tag stick to him.

Are moderates going to vote for an authoritarian mob boss, rather than Bernie. Not clear to me that is the case. Bernie can't make any of the big things he claims he wants to do happen in 4 years and he knows it. We are unboard the USS Dreadnaught that takes a zillion miles to turn. Bernie would do the easy stuff (because anybody can do the easy stuff) like restoring most of the stuff Trump has torn up. He could get healthcare moving in the right direction again pretty easily, he would help the working class, which has to rate pretty high on any democrats priority list. Free college, I don't think so. You have to look at Bernie as an aspirational candidate, changing the direction, bringing a different focus. His aspirations are very very long term goals.

[MDlaxfan76]

The Dems need to avoid that sort of problem.

If I was running the Dem Part I'd be hammering on corruption and lack of ethics all the way to November 2020.
So Much Material.

But they need a clean candidate.

I think the Dems are F'ed in 2020.

They need someone exciting enough to energize voters, but I think someone that Trump can easily paint as a socialist won't get enough moderates.

Which is why they really need to choose someone who can appeal in the Midwest and PA. I'm not so sure the person needs to be super "exciting" beyond communicating clean of corruption, competent, not a nutcase.

[MDlaxfan76]

The Dems need to avoid that sort of problem.

If I was running the Dem Part I'd be hammering on corruption and lack of ethics all the way to November 2020.
So Much Material.

But they need a clean candidate.

I think the Dems are F'ed in 2020.

They need someone exciting enough to energize voters, but I think someone that Trump can easily paint as a socialist won't get enough moderates.

Beto. An empty suit, but an exciting speaker. Going to be difficult to make a socialist tag stick to him.

Are moderates going to vote for an authoritarian mob boss, rather than Bernie. Not clear to me that is the case. Bernie can't make any of the big things he claims he wants to do happen in 4 years and he knows it. We are unboard the USS Dreadnaught that takes a zillion miles to turn. Bernie would do the easy stuff (because anybody can do the easy stuff) like restoring most of the stuff Trump has torn up. He could get healthcare moving in the right direction again pretty easily, he would help the working class, which has to rate pretty high on any democrats priority list. Free college, I don't think so. You have to look at Bernie as an aspirational candidate, changing the direction, bringing a different focus. His aspirations are very very long term goals.

"aspirational" sure. Gets the idealists fired up.

But would we really want him governing, versus any number of the other Dem candidates?
I don't think so.

So, please, please choose someone less "exciting".

Beto? Actually I don't really know how much of an "empty suit" he'll be down the stretch. He certainly has the charisma, certainly is selling a message of coming together, healing, but also plenty clearly 'progressive'. He'll get tested.

If he does go to the top, I'd really like him to tap someone like Klobuchar who has a great record of getting legislation passed, even with a GOP Congress. She'd bring lots of substance.

[wahoomurf]

MDlaxfan76:Which is why they really need to choose someone who can appeal in the Midwest and PA. I'm not so sure the person needs to be super "exciting" beyond communicating clean of corruption, competent, not a nutcase.

Agree,MD,Although a life-long Republican,I didn't nor could I now,vote for Trump.Unless the RNC and the Republican Senate caucus "suffer a sea change" of epic proportions,Trump's going to run.And likely win!

The Democrats have a golden opportunity---IF---they can circle the wagons and back a person that MAY have a "catholic" nous. IMO,there are far to many candidates that adhere to ideologies that are too narrow for many voters.

Tick,tock!

[jhu72]

The Dems need to avoid that sort of problem.

If I was running the Dem Part I'd be hammering on corruption and lack of ethics all the way to November 2020.
So Much Material.

But they need a clean candidate.

I think the Dems are F'ed in 2020.

They need someone exciting enough to energize voters, but I think someone that Trump can easily paint as a socialist won't get enough moderates.

Beto. An empty suit, but an exciting speaker. Going to be difficult to make a socialist tag stick to him.

Are moderates going to vote for an authoritarian mob boss, rather than Bernie. Not clear to me that is the case. Bernie can't make any of the big things he claims he wants to do happen in 4 years and he knows it. We are unboard the USS Dreadnaught that takes a zillion miles to turn. Bernie would do the easy stuff (because anybody can do the easy stuff) like restoring most of the stuff Trump has torn up. He could get healthcare moving in the right direction again pretty easily, he would help the working class, which has to rate pretty high on any democrats priority list. Free college, I don't think so. You have to look at Bernie as an aspirational candidate, changing the direction, bringing a different focus. His aspirations are very very long term goals.

"aspirational" sure. Gets the idealists fired up.

But would we really want him governing, versus any number of the other Dem candidates?
I don't think so.

So, please, please choose someone less "exciting".

Beto? Actually I don't really know how much of an "empty suit" he'll be down the stretch. He certainly has the charisma, certainly is selling a message of coming together, healing, but also plenty clearly 'progressive'. He'll get tested.

If he does go to the top, I'd really like him to tap someone like Klobuchar who has a great record of getting legislation passed, even with a GOP Congress. She'd bring lots of substance.

I don't believe Beto is all that progressive. There is a lot of Trump in Beto. I don't think there is a lot of ideology. He seems pretty fluid to me. I suspect the party left will also feel that way about him.


Klobucher is someone I like and respect, though she will likely be perceived as not progressive enough. She seems to be practical progressive to me which is not a bad place to be at the moment. She is probably not as progressive as Biden, but she also doesn't have the baggage that Joe does that argues against him being really progressive. Like Michael Bennet, but not sure about his cancer. He seems again practical progressive to me. Frankly looking at the list I don't have a big problem with any of them compared to Agent Orange. Gillibrand and Ryan both rub me the wrong way. Warren would make a better presidential advisor - policy wonk - than president. Gabbard has an interesting history vis-à-vis gays. Buttigieg is very interesting, but he comes off a bit polyanna-ish sometimes - same with Beto. Like Inslee's views, but he will likely be seen as too one dimensional. Harris is ok, but doesn't excite. I like Booker, if I were younger he might excite me. At my age I really don't find anyone exciting. Castro I think is in the same category as Booker. I can pretty much live with any of them. Bernie would excite me more if I were younger. He is making promises he can't keep in the 4 years of a president. and the reality is any one of them will move in a direction 180 degrees from Agent Orange.


So no favorite

[a fan]

Boy, good thing Trump defeated terrorism in the ME.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/3-a ... -F9iJCJCC4

[old salt]

Boy, good thing Trump defeated terrorism in the ME.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/3-a ... -F9iJCJCC4

Cheap shot. Wave that bloody shirt.
Trump didn't take us into Afghanistan.
He's taking heat for trying to get us out.

[a fan]

It's not a cheap shot. Someone has forgotten hitting Obama for calling ISIS the JV after they killed more people. That wasn't a cheap shot, right? "That was different", right?

You're doggone right I"m waving the bloody shirt. Trump claimed ISIS was defeated. A flat out lie, and a dangerous one at that.

Hell, a certain poster just echoed Trump's stupid claim just a few weeks ago.

[CU88]

r's hero

TRUMP: "We have the worst laws of any country anywhere in the world."

[RedFromMI]

r's hero

TRUMP: "We have the worst laws of any country anywhere in the world."

Said because they are in his way...

[holmes435]

Trump hotels exempted from ban on foreign payments under new stance

"The Department of Justice has adopted a narrow interpretation of a law meant to bar foreign interests from corrupting federal officials, giving Saudi Arabia, China and other countries leeway to curry favor with Donald Trump via deals with his hotels, condos, trademarks and golf courses, legal and national security experts say."

Embarassing. But at least it wasn't a peanut farm.

[jhu72]

Trump hotels exempted from ban on foreign payments under new stance

"The Department of Justice has adopted a narrow interpretation of a law meant to bar foreign interests from corrupting federal officials, giving Saudi Arabia, China and other countries leeway to curry favor with Donald Trump via deals with his hotels, condos, trademarks and golf courses, legal and national security experts say."

Embarassing. But at least it wasn't a peanut farm.

Welcome to the banana republic of the United States of Trump.