NCAA Tournament Selection

[HomerCoach]

Not sure hoe the regional rankings work into these selections (I'm sure I'll be educated VERY quickly )...but here's a start:


Pool A (27)
Atlantic East Conference; Cabrini
Centennial Conference; Dickinson
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin; Ill. Wesleyan
Colonial States Athletic Conference; Stockton
Commonwealth Coast Conference; WNE
Empire 8; Fisher
Great Northeast Athletic Conference; Norwich
Heartland Collegiate Men’s Lacrosse Conference; Hanover
Landmark Conference; Catholic
Liberty League; Union
Little East Conference; UMass Boston
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association; Hope
Middle Atlantic Conference Commonwealth; York
Middle Atlantic Conference Freedom; Stevens
Midwest Lacrosse Conference; Dubuque
New England Small College Athletic Conference; Tufts
New England Women’s and Men’s Athletic Conference; MIT
North Atlantic Conference; Delhi
North Coast Athletic Conference; Denison
Northern Athletics Collegiate Conference; Benedictine
Ohio Athletic Conference; Baldwin Wallace
Old Dominion Athletic Conference; W&L
Presidents’ Athletic Conference; Grove City
Skyline Conference; Maritime
Southern Athletic Association; Centre
SUNYAC Cortland
USA South Southern Virginia

Pool B (1)
C2C CNU

Pool C (10)

1. Salisbury (C2C)
2. RIT (Liberty)
3. Bowdoin (NESCAC)
4. St. Lawrence (Liberty)
5. Lynchburg (ODAC)
6. Amherst (NESCAC)
7. Stevenson (MACC)
8. Elizabethtown (Landmark)
9. Gettysburg or Muhlenberg(Centennial)
10. John Carroll (OAC)


Conferences with multiple teams:
Liberty (3)
NESCAC (3)
C2C (2)
ODAC (2)
MACC (2)
Landmank (2)
Centennial (2)
OAC (2)

[wscl44]

.

[HomerCoach]

Hclc will be Colorado or southwestern
Saa will be Sewanee or rhodes
Would be surprised if etown is in over a f&m

HCLC was a shot in the dark...
I forgot that Sewanee and Rhodes pulled the upsets
F&M didn't even make the Centennial tournament

[Patlaxer]

If the NESCAC gets a third ream it will be Wesleyan not Amherst. Cardinals have a better record and beat Amherst badly in their match up. Only way I see Amherst making it is if they win out in the NESCAC tourney. Possible but unlikely.

[InsiderRoll]

If the NESCAC gets a third ream it will be Wesleyan not Amherst. Cardinals have a better record and beat Amherst badly in their match up. Only way I see Amherst making it is if they win out in the NESCAC tourney. Possible but unlikely.

If will be discussed. But Amherst also has 2 wins over a team that beat Wesleyan. Wesleyan is 11-4 with one of the worst SOS of any team in the mix. When last I cracked it was around 60th. Amherst is 10-5 with much stronger SOS.

[InsiderRoll]

Not sure hoe the regional rankings work into these selections (I'm sure I'll be educated VERY quickly )...but here's a start:


Pool A (27)
Atlantic East Conference; Cabrini
Centennial Conference; Dickinson
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin; Ill. Wesleyan
Colonial States Athletic Conference; Stockton
Commonwealth Coast Conference; WNE
Empire 8; Fisher
Great Northeast Athletic Conference; Norwich
Heartland Collegiate Men’s Lacrosse Conference; Hanover
Landmark Conference; Catholic
Liberty League; Union
Little East Conference; UMass Boston
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association; Hope
Middle Atlantic Conference Commonwealth; York
Middle Atlantic Conference Freedom; Stevens
Midwest Lacrosse Conference; Dubuque
New England Small College Athletic Conference; Tufts
New England Women’s and Men’s Athletic Conference; MIT
North Atlantic Conference; Delhi
North Coast Athletic Conference; Denison
Northern Athletics Collegiate Conference; Benedictine
Ohio Athletic Conference; Baldwin Wallace
Old Dominion Athletic Conference; W&L
Presidents’ Athletic Conference; Grove City
Skyline Conference; Maritime
Southern Athletic Association; Centre
SUNYAC Cortland
USA South Southern Virginia

Pool B (1)
C2C CNU

Pool C (10)

1. Salisbury (C2C)
2. RIT (Liberty)
3. Bowdoin (NESCAC)
4. St. Lawrence (Liberty)
5. Lynchburg (ODAC)
6. Amherst (NESCAC)
7. Stevenson (MACC)
8. Elizabethtown (Landmark)
9. Gettysburg or Muhlenberg(Centennial)
10. John Carroll (OAC)


Conferences with multiple teams:
Liberty (3)
NESCAC (3)
C2C (2)
ODAC (2)
MACC (2)
Landmank (2)
Centennial (2)
OAC (2)

ETown and Muhlenburg aren’t even in the ballpark

[Laxisback]

If the NESCAC gets a third ream it will be Wesleyan not Amherst. Cardinals have a better record and beat Amherst badly in their match up. Only way I see Amherst making it is if they win out in the NESCAC tourney. Possible but unlikely.

Amherst is regionally ranked ahead of Wesleyan, so they would get in first, unless this changes by selection Sunday.

[InsiderRoll]

If the NESCAC gets a third ream it will be Wesleyan not Amherst. Cardinals have a better record and beat Amherst badly in their match up. Only way I see Amherst making it is if they win out in the NESCAC tourney. Possible but unlikely.

Amherst is regionally ranked ahead of Wesleyan, so they would get in first, unless this changes by selection Sunday.

The regional rankings will get updated today, and again on selection sunday

[Laxwizard]

AC will remain ranked above Wesleyan this week. Anything can happen Saturday and it could all change.

[ah23]

If the NESCAC gets a third ream it will be Wesleyan not Amherst. Cardinals have a better record and beat Amherst badly in their match up. Only way I see Amherst making it is if they win out in the NESCAC tourney. Possible but unlikely.

Having a better record doesn't (or shouldn't) really matter. If it did, every at-large slot would go to cupcake teams from bad conferences.

• IMO Amherst should be a semi-lock at this point. Good wins over Hamilton, Gettysburg, Western New England, Middlebury, and Williams (x2). The 15-14 loss to Springfield is the only real blemish on their resume. Their other losses are by a combined 8 goals to #5 SJF, #7 Bowdoin, and #9 Tufts, plus the other arguably bad loss to #14 Wesleyan. If they beat Bowdoin next Saturday, 100% lock no matter what happens on Sunday. If they lose...I still think they're in.
• On the other hand, I think Wesleyan is kind of shaky. Their OOC slate was really weak this year (SUNY Maritime, Stevens, Salve Regina, Coast Guard, and Springfield) - none of the teams they beat matter for NCAA resumes. The Amherst win is a good one, but outside of that, Hamilton and Middlebury (x2) are their only other wins of note. The loss to Colby is atrocious, and the four-goal loss to Williams doesn't help. I think Wesleyan at minimum needs to beat Tufts in the NESCAC semis. If they do that, they can maybe afford to lose on Sunday. But if Wesleyan loses to Tufts, I think they are in a lot of trouble.

8. Elizabethtown (Landmark)
10. John Carroll (OAC)

Someone please correct me if I'm off-base, but unless these two teams win their conference AQs I don't think they should get anywhere near a Pool C bid.

• Elizabethtown is 10-6 with basically no resume to speak of. Their best win is...Swarthmore? Maybe Scranton? Outside of those two very mediocre wins, there is nothing else on their resume, and they lost to every team they played that is in or around the NCAA bubble discussion. They don't even appear in the NCAA's regional rankings.
• John Carroll has a nice record, but it's filled with a bunch of nothing wins. To be as charitable as possible, they do have "regionally ranked wins" over Grove City, OWU, and Ohio Northern. However, John Carroll also has regionally ranked losses to Denison and Baldwin Wallace, both of which are ranked ahead of JC in Region IV. If JC is ranked sixth in a fairly meh region (behind Lynchburg, Denison, W&L, Roanoke, and Baldwin Wallace), and has losses to two of the teams ahead of them...I don't see how they get anywhere near a Pool C bid.

[nelaxman]

Why is Amherst ranked ahead of Wesleyan? Wesleyan beat Amherst 21-14 and Wesleyan has better overall record. Seems really odd!

[InsiderRoll]

Why is Amherst ranked ahead of Wesleyan? Wesleyan beat Amherst 21-14 and Wesleyan has better overall record. Seems really odd!

Because Raba schedules soft. Amherst has played 10 regionally ranked opponents and is 5-5 vs them and has a stronger SOS. Wesleyan is 5-3 vs ranked opponents and has a very bad loss to Colby. Lower SOS too. Things will sort themselves out over the next week.

[HomerCoach]

"ETown and Muhlenburg aren’t even in the ballpark"


Serious question, how often do conferences get more than three bids?

What are your suggestions?

[InsiderRoll]

"ETown and Muhlenburg aren’t even in the ballpark"


Serious question, how often do conferences get more than three bids?

What are your suggestions?

The NESCAC has gotten 4 multiple times. The Liberty could, RPI would get in before those teams. As would F&M and Ursinus. Even Roanoke is well ahead of those teams.

[HomerCoach]

"ETown and Muhlenburg aren’t even in the ballpark"


Serious question, how often do conferences get more than three bids?

What are your suggestions?

The NESCAC has gotten 4 multiple times. The Liberty could, RPI would get in before those teams. As would F&M and Ursinus. Even Roanoke is well ahead of those teams.

You mean the Ursinus that Muhlenberg beat, or the F&M that didn't even make the conference tournament?

[SpiritInTheStick]

"ETown and Muhlenburg aren’t even in the ballpark"


Serious question, how often do conferences get more than three bids?

What are your suggestions?

The NESCAC has gotten 4 multiple times. The Liberty could, RPI would get in before those teams. As would F&M and Ursinus. Even Roanoke is well ahead of those teams.

You mean the Ursinus that Muhlenberg beat, or the F&M that didn't even make the conference tournament?

Who have Elizabethtown or Muhlenberg beaten that give them a chance at an at-large bid?? Elizabethtown's best win is probably Scranton and losses to St. Mary's (MD) and F&M are going to hurt them. How many teams has Muhlenberg beaten that have a winning record? Add in that they lost to a Desales team that F&M beat by 13. Plus F&M beat Muhlenberg. F&M has a much better resume than both of those teams.

[overandback]

Muhlenberg and F&M (and Ursinus) finished at 5-3 in CC play.
F&M beat Muhlenberg.
What is the tiebreaker that got Mules into the tournament and has F&M out?

[HomerCoach]

Muhlenberg and F&M (and Ursinus) finished at 5-3 in CC play.
F&M beat Muhlenberg.
What is the tiebreaker that got Mules into the tournament and has F&M out?

Muhlenberg has the better goal differential between the 3 tied teams.

Next, Ursinus beat F&M head-to-head.

[Wall Ball]

Could you break it out by south and north, what do you think it would look like. Thanks.

[overandback]

Muhlenberg and F&M (and Ursinus) finished at 5-3 in CC play.
F&M beat Muhlenberg.
What is the tiebreaker that got Mules into the tournament and has F&M out?

Muhlenberg has the better goal differential between the 3 tied teams.

Next, Ursinus beat F&M head-to-head.

Thanks but I’m still lost on this.

From CC website:
Tie-Breaking Formulas
1. Head-to-Head Centennial Conference play among tied teams;
2. Record versus teams in descending order of standing;
3. Goal-differential in games among tied teams; if tie(s) still exist(s), then fewest goals allowed in games against teams
in descending order of standing;



All three are tied after #1 and 2.
Muhlenberg gets in as the 2 seed via #3a -
So to break the F&M/Ursinus tie we go to 3b.
Fewest goals allowed vs Dickinson…
F&M allowed 13 goals to devils
Ursinus allowed 14 to devils.