All Things Russia & Ukraine

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lagerhead
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by lagerhead »

seacoaster wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:19 pm A day old and probably dated, but a very interesting assessment of where things stand:

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgr ... t-march-13

FFG, are you seeing any economic assessments of Russia? Debt defaults? Inflation there? Foreign currency on hand?
What I’ve heard, read , observed.
Bond investors getting killed probably won’t get investments back.

Oil sanctions won’t really kick in for 45 days, we let existing contracts stand .

I’ve heard they are blowing through foreign currency reserves.

Sanctions take time.
seacoaster
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by seacoaster »

lagerhead wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:05 pm
seacoaster wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:19 pm A day old and probably dated, but a very interesting assessment of where things stand:

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgr ... t-march-13

FFG, are you seeing any economic assessments of Russia? Debt defaults? Inflation there? Foreign currency on hand?
What I’ve heard, read , observed.
Bond investors getting killed probably won’t get investments back.

Oil sanctions won’t really kick in for 45 days, we let existing contracts stand .

I’ve heard they are blowing through foreign currency reserves.

Sanctions take time.
Thanks. That all makes sense (to the extent making sense makes sense any more).
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

https://amp.economist.com/science-and-t ... s/21808191

A LOT OF Russian tanks involved in the invasion of Ukraine have strange cages welded over the roofs of their turrets. Strange and apparently useless—for many pictures have emerged of destroyed vehicles surmounted by them. Sometimes, indeed, the cage itself has been visibly damaged by an attack that went on to hit the tank beneath.

Stijn Mitzer, an independent analyst based in Amsterdam, has looked at hundreds of verified photographs of destroyed Russian vehicles. He thinks that, far from acting as protection, the cages have done nothing save add weight, make tanks easier to spot, and perhaps give a false and dangerous sense of security to the crew inside. They have indeed been mockingly dubbed by Western analysts as “emotional support armour” or “cope cages”.

Superficially, they are an example of what is known in military circles as field-expedient armour—in other words, stuff that has been added to vehicles after they have entered service. Often, field expedients are sensible retrofits. Gareth Appleby-Thomas, head of the Centre for Defence Engineering at Cranfield University, in Britain, observes that they have ranged over the years from sandbags, via sheets of armour subsequently (and often crudely) attached to the outsides of tanks, to factory-made upgrade kits.

Cage fight
The new cages, the fitting of which seems to have begun late in 2021, appear to be a variant of so-called slat or bar armour. Such armour can provide effective lightweight protection if used correctly (as it is, for example, on American Stryker armoured personnel carriers). But in this case that seems not to have happened. They might thus be seen as symbols of Russia’s inadequate preparation for the campaign as pertinent as its failures to neutralise Ukraine’s air defences and to shoot down that country’s drones.

One of the principal threats to armoured vehicles are HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank) weapons, such as the Russian-made but widely employed RPG-7. The warheads of these rocket-propelled grenades are shaped charges—hollow cones of explosive lined with metal. When the explosive detonates it blasts the metal lining into a narrow, high-speed jet that is able to punch through thick steel. According to Dr Appleby-Thomas an RPG-7 can penetrate 30cm of steel plate.

And RPG-7s are the babies of the bunch. Other, far more powerful, shaped-charge anti-tank weapons used by Ukrainian forces include Javelins supplied by America, NLAWs (Next Generation Light Anti-tank Weapons) supplied by Britain and drone-borne MAM-L missiles, supplied by Turkey.

HEAT warheads may be countered by what is known as explosive reactive armour, or ERA. When this is hit, a sheet of explosive sandwiched inside it blows up and disrupts an incoming warhead before it can detonate. Many Russian tanks are indeed fitted with ERA. However ERA may, in turn, be defeated by a so-called tandem warhead, in which a small precursor charge triggers the armour’s explosive before the main warhead detonates.

Slat and bar add-on armours are a lighter and cheaper way to counter RPGs, though even if used correctly they are, literally, hit or miss protection. The spacing of the bars or slats is crucial. If a rocket hits a bar it makes little difference, for its warhead will detonate anyway. But if it gets trapped between bars it will probably be damaged in a way which means that the signal from the nose-mounted fuse cannot reach the detonator.

This approach is known as statistical armour, because the protection it offers is all or nothing. It is typically quoted as having a 50% chance of disrupting an incoming RPG. But Dr Appleby-Thomas notes that it only works against munitions with a nose fuse, which Javelins, NLAWs and MAM-Ls do not.

Russia has been fitting slat armour to vehicles since 2016, but the design of the new cages, seemingly improvised from locally available materials, is baffling. The cages appear to be oriented in a way that protects only against attacks from above. In principle, that might help protect against Javelins, which have a “top attack” mode in which they first veer upwards and then dive to punch through a tank’s thin top armour. But, as Nick Reynolds, Land Warfare Research Analyst at RUSI, a British defence think-tank, notes, even if the cage sets off a Javelin’s precursor warhead, the main charge is still more than powerful enough to punch through the top armour and destroy the tank—as the Ukrainian army itself proved in December, when it tested one against a vehicle protected by add-on armour replicating the Russian design. As expected, the Javelin destroyed the target easily.

Another idea is that the cages are a response to events in the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan in 2020, in which large numbers of Russian-made Armenian tanks were destroyed from above by MAM-Ls. Samuel Cranny-Evans, another analyst at RUSI, observes that these missiles do not have the RPG-7’s nose-mounted fuse. Hitting the cage might detonate the warhead prematurely and reduce its effectiveness, but Dr Cranny-Evans does not believe this would prevent it destroying a tank.

A third possibility is that the cages are in fact meant as protection against RPGs—which the Ukrainians have in abundance—being fired on tanks from above. This is not likely to happen in an open battlefield, but is a preferred tactic in urban warfare, where buildings offer shooters the necessary elevation.

Even if that is true, though, it comes at a price. Patrick Benham-Crosswell, a former tank officer in the British Army and author of “The Dangerous World of Tommy Atkins: An Introduction to Land Warfare”, notes the cages limit the ability of the machine-gun mounted on the top of the turret to swing upwards to engage enemies firing down on the vehicle.

Dr Appleby-Thomas speculates that the cages’ true purpose might therefore be to protect against small, improvised bombs dropped from drones. Ukraine has developed munitions based on hand-thrown anti-tank grenades, by fitting them with fins so that they can be dropped accurately from commercial drones. These drone-borne bombs might present a real danger in urban areas. But the cages would only blunt such attacks rather than providing complete protection, because they form only a partial screen over the turret, and leave other areas completely exposed.

The last possibility, then, is that the gibes about the cages being emotional support armour are actually correct, and that they have been added simply to improve morale by convincing the troops inside that they are safe. As Dr Benham-Crosswell notes, soldiers often take the view that every little helps.

Believing you are safe is not, however, actually the same as being safe. A pointed historical parallel might be found in the ghost dance shirts, supposed have supernatural powers to stop bullets, which were worn by some Lakota warriors in their uprising against the American government in 1889 and 1890. These certainly improved morale. But they didn’t save their wearers at Wounded Knee.
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old salt
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by old salt »

https://amp.economist.com/science-and-t ... s/21808191

A third possibility is that the cages are in fact meant as protection against RPGs—which the Ukrainians have in abundance—being fired on tanks from above. This is not likely to happen in an open battlefield, but is a preferred tactic in urban warfare, where buildings offer shooters the necessary elevation.

Dr Appleby-Thomas speculates that the cages’ true purpose might therefore be to protect against small, improvised bombs dropped from drones. Ukraine has developed munitions based on hand-thrown anti-tank grenades, by fitting them with fins so that they can be dropped accurately from commercial drones. These drone-borne bombs might present a real danger in urban areas. But the cages would only blunt such attacks rather than providing complete protection, because they form only a partial screen over the turret, and leave other areas completely exposed.
Probably that. Our Strykers, Bradleys & tracked utility vehicles used in Iraq, Syria & Afghanistan had slat armor fitted.
Useful in counter-insurgency patrolling.

https://defense-update.com/20060102_slat-stryker.html
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old salt
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by old salt »

The Air War for Ukraine :

Russian jets flying 200 sorties/day, firing from Russian airspace.
https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2022 ... ys/363088/

The No-Fly Zone Test.
https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2022/0 ... st/363099/

USAF not dismissing threat from Russian SAM's despite supposed shortcomings.
https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2022 ... ne/363037/

Why the US won't give Patriots to Ukraine.
https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2022 ... ne/363042/
Farfromgeneva
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Farfromgeneva »

seacoaster wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:19 pm A day old and probably dated, but a very interesting assessment of where things stand:

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgr ... t-march-13

FFG, are you seeing any economic assessments of Russia? Debt defaults? Inflation there? Foreign currency on hand?
Oh Russia is definitely going to default. Even if Putin wanted to he can’t actually make the payments being kicked out of the system. There was a bit about some tailored CDS (credit default swaps-credit insurance against failure to perform) owned by Bill Gross. There’s like $800Bn in russi oligarch assets in various Hedge Funds, Real Estate and PE, Abramovich who controls a Nickel mining company and owns a euro pro soccer team head been in the news but it’s more than that. But Russia is like the equivalent of Rhode Island. It’ll hurt some targeted players and assets in the US/global markets but they could disappear off the globe and it’s not systemic to planet earth. Could be some unforeseen risks there was some inability to post cash against futures contracts but this hurts them a lot more than us or anyone else including Europe. Putin is doing the equivalent of burning down villages like they did in WW2 except they don’t get control of half of europe afterwards.
Harvard University, out
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I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

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Farfromgeneva
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Farfromgeneva »

lagerhead wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:05 pm
seacoaster wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:19 pm A day old and probably dated, but a very interesting assessment of where things stand:

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgr ... t-march-13

FFG, are you seeing any economic assessments of Russia? Debt defaults? Inflation there? Foreign currency on hand?
What I’ve heard, read , observed.
Bond investors getting killed probably won’t get investments back.

Oil sanctions won’t really kick in for 45 days, we let existing contracts stand .

I’ve heard they are blowing through foreign currency reserves.

Sanctions take time.
Biggest issue is ABS markets are shut to all but the most liquid asset classes (homes, credit card debt and cars). Consumer unsecured term debt, whorl business securitization, insurance premium finance, royalties, etc can’t get bonds sold. This has the affect of jamming those lenders/finance companies who have a set amount of capacity and have to sell bonds periodically to pay down credit lines to make more loans/leases. Doesn’t help Fed Reserve (rightfully IMO) will start raising Fed Funds by a quarter point on weds and will do like 4-5 (1.25-1.5%) by year end which is problematic for high advance rate, high quality, low loss term finances assets. If they step up reduction in asset purchases we could have a less than pretty may-June in credit markets akin to the taper tantrum in summer of 2013-probably a little worse.

But yeah Russia kind of doesn’t matter big picture.
Harvard University, out
University of Utah, in

I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

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DocBarrister
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Putin’s Fascist Russia

Post by DocBarrister »

Analysts have usually shied away from asking just what type of regime has these specific characteristics, preferring to say that Putin’s Russia is Putinist or merely authoritarian. But there is a word that many historians and political scientists use for an authoritarian state with a charismatic leader who promotes a personality cult. That word is fascism. Mussolini’s Italy and Hitler’s Germany fit the bill, but so does Stalin’s Soviet Union and Kim’s North Korea. Fascism, in other words, can be found on the political right or the political left. And, as most Ukrainians and many Russians agree, it’s now the best word to describe Putin’s Russia.

Fascist systems often have several other characteristics. They routinely employ coercion and violence in their everyday dealings. They promote chauvinist and racist ideologies. They usually have expansionist ambitions.

We can see these same elements in Putin’s regime. Putin destroyed Chechnya and is hellbent on destroying Ukraine. He’s ordered the assassinations of a score of political opponents and is snuffing out any wisps of protest against the war. He promotes a supremacist Russian ideology. And he’s demonstrated his imperial ambitions in Georgia, Belarus and Ukraine.

Indeed, Putin’s trajectory increasingly resembles that of Hitler. Both men came to power after their countries experienced imperial dismemberment and economic collapse. Both promised to revive their nation’s glory and enjoyed enormous popularity. Both militarized and pursued state capitalism. Both relied on the army and secret police. Both identified their nations with themselves. Both promoted reactionary ideologies that identified one nation — Jews for Hitler, Ukrainians for Putin — as the enemy. And both used their national minorities living in neighboring states as pretexts for expansion. Both were also consummate liars and had deranged personalities. In this scheme of things, Putin’s invasion of Ukraine is equivalent to Hitler’s attack on Austria, Czechoslovakia or Poland. And we all know what happened afterward — a Vernichtungskrieg.


https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... t-00016982

One other characteristic of fascist leaders … they often suffer an ignominious end.

Let’s hope that is Putin’s fate as well.

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old salt
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by old salt »

Kismet wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:48 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:35 pm
Kismet wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:46 am
old salt wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:05 am
Kismet wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:50 am
old salt wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:24 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:03 pm It's our fault that Putin is a snake that bites...
It's our fault if we stick our hand in his den & he bites us.

And yet, we were told again and again and again that Russia wasn't actually dangerous.
...because they have such a small GDP. The '80's are calling, they want their foreign policy back.
What about your GF Tulsi who last time I checked is an active duty Lt. Col. in the National Guard articulating Russian propaganda on US/Ukrainian bioweapons in theater along with Carlson at Faux News?
She is now in the Army Reserve, no indication she is presently on active duty. I believe Kinzinger is still in the ANG. Both Lieutenant Colonels.
What is inaccurate or unreasonable about this ?
No mention of bio-weapons. Would a cease fire be a bad thing ?

https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status ... gr%5Etweet
Maybe you should join her at QAnon
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/q ... -rcna19392
Are you going to show us where Tulsi said anything about bio-weapons ?
Your NBC link made no mention of Tulsi.
Govt labs may have hazardous pathogens for research that has nothing to do with bio-weapons.
e.g. detecting & typing anthrax in farm animal populations.
https://www.cnn.com/2014/07/15/health/c ... index.html
I guess your RT subscription must have expired - Russian and Chinese sources saying the same things as your girl Tulsi. NBC article points to questionable sourcing of all this alleged bio development in Ukraine funded by USA.

I'd pay attention to this fellow right now - Andrei V Kozyrev, Foreign Minister of Russia, 1990-1996. Member of the State Duma till 2000; then businessman, speaker and author
I paid attention to what Victoria Nuland told Congress, as she fumbled inserting the pin in another sweat grenade.

https://www.voanews.com/a/us-fears-russ ... 79764.html
Talk about such facilities seemed to gain additional momentum on Tuesday after Rubio asked about the labs during a hearing by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

"Ukraine has biological research facilities, which, in fact, we are now quite concerned Russian troops, Russian forces may be seeking to gain control of," replied Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland.

"We are working with the Ukrainians on how they can prevent any of those research materials from falling into the hands of Russian forces should they approach," she added.


https://media.defense.gov/2022/Mar/11/2 ... KRAINE.PDF
The Department of Defense’s Cooperative Threat
Reduction Program - Biological Threat Reduction
Program Activities in Ukraine

Overview: The Biological Threat Reduction Program (BTRP), part of the Department of
Defense’s Cooperative Threat Reduction (CTR) Program, is implemented by the Defense Threat
Reduction Agency (DTRA). Since 2005, BTRP has partnered with the Government of Ukraine
to support peaceful and safe biological detection and diagnostic capabilities and to reduce the
threats posed by pathogens.

Key Facts:
 Public health facilities and biological laboratories around the world maintain and study
pathogens to be able to confirm outbreaks of disease and to improve early detection and
diagnostic capabilities. These facilities use specific pathogens because they are endemic
to their country, or because they are at risk of spread from other countries. All member
countries of the World Health Organization (WHO) International Health Regulations
(IHR) (2005) must have such capabilities to detect and respond to disease threats. This is
a basic capability for national health security.
 The United States, through BTRP, has invested approximately $200 million in Ukraine
since 2005, supporting 46 Ukrainian laboratories, health facilities, and diagnostic sites.
BTRP has improved Ukraine’s biological safety, security and surveillance for both
human and animal health. By supporting safer and more effective disease detection, this
assistance directly improved Ukraine’s COVID-19 response. BTRP partners with the
World Health Organization, the World Organization for Animal Health, the U.S. Centers
for Disease Control and Prevention and other health institutions in providing this
assistance.
 DoD’s CTR Program began its biological work with Ukraine to reduce the risk posed by
the former Soviet Union’s illegal biological weapons program, which left Soviet
successor states with unsecured biological materials after the fall of the USSR. DoD’s
CTR program works with many partner countries to reduce the threat that pathogens
could be misused, stolen or accidentally released. DoD even worked closely with Russia
and within Russia in laboratories owned by Russia until 2014.
 DoD CTR has worked cooperatively and peacefully with the government of Ukraine to
increase biosecurity and biosafety at these sites to ensure pathogens do not pose a risk to
the people of Ukraine or the region. The biosafety and biosecurity capacities that DoD
has provided are in keeping with those required by the WHO IHR.
 DoD CTR has maintained its relationship with Ukraine through the
present day, and Ukraine uses the laboratory improvements provided by the United
States and other partners to support broader public and veterinary health goals, such
as monitoring the spread of COVID-19, preparing for and controlling African Swine
Fever, which helped Ukrainian farmers protect their herds from infectious diseases, and
protecting the food supply in Ukraine – just to mention a few of the many benefits that
accrued from this partnership.
 BTRP partners with Ukraine’s Ministry of Health and Ministry of Agriculture’s State
Committee of Veterinary Medicine and National Academy of Agrarian Sciences, and has
a limited engagement with Ministry of Defense confined to providing mobile diagnostic
laboratories to provide on-the-ground assistance in a public health emergency.
 The Ukrainian laboratories are owned and operated by the government of Ukraine. DoD
participates in a wider international partnership that includes the government of Ukraine,
international organizations, such as the WHO, the Organization for Security and
Cooperation in Europe, and other foreign partners to improve Ukraine’s ability to safely
and effectively detect and report disease outbreaks.
 Scientists are encouraged to publish their research results, partner with international
colleagues, and widely distribute their research and public health findings. These
facilities operate in a capacity similar to state and local public health and research
laboratories around the world. Furthermore, all equipment and training provided by the
United States, including from DoD, is subject to U.S. export control processes,
audits, and acquisition laws and regulations to ensure transparency and compliance with
both U.S. and International Health Regulations.
 BTRP’s priorities in Ukraine are to help them consolidate and secure pathogens and to
continue to ensure Ukraine can detect and report disease outbreaks before they pose
security or stability threats.
 Russia illegally took possession of two Ukrainian-owned laboratories that BTRP
upgraded in 2014 and continues to deny Ukrainian access to these facilities.
 After Russia launched its unlawful invasion of Ukraine, the Ukrainian Ministry of Health
responsibly ordered the safe and secure disposal of samples. These actions limit the
danger of an accidental release of pathogens should Russia’s military attack laboratories,
a real concern since they have attacked Ukraine’s nuclear power plants and research
facilities.
 Proper disposal of samples during a war reflects responsible conduct on the part of the
Ukrainians to protect the Ukrainian people and the international community from
potential accidental exposure due to irresponsible Russian actions.
 On a daily basis, Russia propagates disinformation aimed at BTRP’s laboratory and
capacity building efforts in former Soviet Union countries—falsely claiming that the U.S.
Department of Defense support is used to develop biological weapons. Unlike Russia, the
United States and Ukraine are not developing biological weapons and are in full
compliance with the Biological Weapons Convention.
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old salt
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by old salt »

Our regime change $5 billion bag lady. Deja Vu.
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:11 pm Our regime change $5 billion bag lady. Deja Vu.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Russia Supply Chain TV…part of your home package..
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by old salt »

Estonia becomes the first NATO member to call for a no-fly zone over Ukraine.
Of course, Estonia has no combat aircraft.
Astounding NATO member sense of entitlement.
Maybe they can borrow a Sopwith Camel from the Grand Duchy of Fenwick.
We are being inextricably drawn into the War of Ukrainian Succession.
The Hapsburgs vs the Romanovs - the latest Slavic tribal war.

https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/ukrai ... 03-14-2022

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/2 ... in-ukraine

https://www.politico.eu/article/case-no ... n-ukraine/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... nd-border/
Attack on Ukrainian base came from warplanes inside Russia, Pentagon says, underscoring limits of a no-fly zone

Russia’s missile attack on a Ukrainian military base near the Polish border was launched from long-range bombers flying inside Russian airspace, the Pentagon said Monday, detailing its latest assessment of the strike that killed at least 35 people and marked a significant escalation in the nearly three-week war.

The attack Sunday in Yavoriv in western Ukraine, about 15 miles from NATO territory, did not disrupt shipments of Western military aid, despite Russia’s claims to the contrary, said a senior U.S. defense official, speaking on the condition of anonymity under ground rules set by the Pentagon.

But it has amplified fears in the region, and in the United States, that a miscalculation could drastically widen the war. Thousands of U.S. troops have been sent to Poland and other countries along the aliance’s eastern edge, and President Biden and other Western leaders have maintained that a Russian attack on one would invite a ferocious response.

Russian missiles strike Ukrainian military range near Poland, killing dozens

The senior U.S. defense official said Russia’s fusillade targeting the International Peacekeeping and Security Center has not altered the U.S. force posture in Poland. The official said that “more than a couple dozen” missiles were launched.

The facility has been used in the past by U.S. and NATO troops to provide training for the Ukrainian military and currently houses about 1,000 foreign volunteers who have traveled to Ukraine to aid in its war with Russia. The senior defense official said the Pentagon would “not have a way of knowing or tracking” whether any American citizens were among those killed or wounded in the attack, though he affirmed earlier statements indicating that no U.S. troops, government officials or defense contractors were at Yavoriv when the strike occurred.

The facility is not a transit point for Western military aid, the senior U.S. defense official said, contradicting Russian Defense Ministry claims that the base was used as a weapons and equipment depot. Russian officials have warned that they consider weapons shipments “legitimate targets.”

U.S. and European officials have not disclosed any shipment routes into Ukraine, so it is unclear whether the facility had been a hub for weapons in the past.
“I would just tell you that we have multiple routes to get security assistance into the hands of the Ukrainians,” Pentagon spokesman John Kirby told reporters during a news briefing Monday afternoon. “This was not one of them.”

That the attack originated in Russian airspace underscored the limitations of enforcing a no-fly zone in Ukraine, the senior defense official said. The Biden administration has refused repeated pleas from Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, and some U.S. lawmakers who support using American warplanes to police the airspace. Others in Congress concur with the Pentagon’s assessment that such an operation would risk a direct confrontation between U.S. and Russian aircraft.
“A no-fly zone would not stop all of the air activity,” the senior defense official said Monday. “It would engender U.S. pilots in combat with Russia.”

Western Ukraine and its major city, Lviv, have become a transit point for civilians fleeing the war elsewhere in the country, but recent strikes have shattered the notion that the area will remain a refuge.

“This is the third now military facility or airfield that the Russians have struck in western Ukraine in just the last couple of days,” Kirby said Sunday. “So clearly, at least from an airstrike perspective, they’re broadening their target sets.”
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by DocBarrister »

old salt wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:16 am Estonia becomes the first NATO member to call for a no-fly zone over Ukraine.
Of course, Estonia has no combat aircraft.
Astounding NATO member sense of entitlement.
Maybe they can borrow a Sopwith Camel from the Grand Duchy of Fenwick.
We are being inextricably drawn into the War of Ukrainian Succession.
The Hapsburgs vs the Romanovs - the latest Slavic tribal war.

https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/ukrai ... 03-14-2022

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/2 ... in-ukraine

https://www.politico.eu/article/case-no ... n-ukraine/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... nd-border/
Attack on Ukrainian base came from warplanes inside Russia, Pentagon says, underscoring limits of a no-fly zone

Russia’s missile attack on a Ukrainian military base near the Polish border was launched from long-range bombers flying inside Russian airspace, the Pentagon said Monday, detailing its latest assessment of the strike that killed at least 35 people and marked a significant escalation in the nearly three-week war.

The attack Sunday in Yavoriv in western Ukraine, about 15 miles from NATO territory, did not disrupt shipments of Western military aid, despite Russia’s claims to the contrary, said a senior U.S. defense official, speaking on the condition of anonymity under ground rules set by the Pentagon.

But it has amplified fears in the region, and in the United States, that a miscalculation could drastically widen the war. Thousands of U.S. troops have been sent to Poland and other countries along the aliance’s eastern edge, and President Biden and other Western leaders have maintained that a Russian attack on one would invite a ferocious response.

Russian missiles strike Ukrainian military range near Poland, killing dozens

The senior U.S. defense official said Russia’s fusillade targeting the International Peacekeeping and Security Center has not altered the U.S. force posture in Poland. The official said that “more than a couple dozen” missiles were launched.

The facility has been used in the past by U.S. and NATO troops to provide training for the Ukrainian military and currently houses about 1,000 foreign volunteers who have traveled to Ukraine to aid in its war with Russia. The senior defense official said the Pentagon would “not have a way of knowing or tracking” whether any American citizens were among those killed or wounded in the attack, though he affirmed earlier statements indicating that no U.S. troops, government officials or defense contractors were at Yavoriv when the strike occurred.

The facility is not a transit point for Western military aid, the senior U.S. defense official said, contradicting Russian Defense Ministry claims that the base was used as a weapons and equipment depot. Russian officials have warned that they consider weapons shipments “legitimate targets.”

U.S. and European officials have not disclosed any shipment routes into Ukraine, so it is unclear whether the facility had been a hub for weapons in the past.
“I would just tell you that we have multiple routes to get security assistance into the hands of the Ukrainians,” Pentagon spokesman John Kirby told reporters during a news briefing Monday afternoon. “This was not one of them.”

That the attack originated in Russian airspace underscored the limitations of enforcing a no-fly zone in Ukraine, the senior defense official said. The Biden administration has refused repeated pleas from Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, and some U.S. lawmakers who support using American warplanes to police the airspace. Others in Congress concur with the Pentagon’s assessment that such an operation would risk a direct confrontation between U.S. and Russian aircraft.
“A no-fly zone would not stop all of the air activity,” the senior defense official said Monday. “It would engender U.S. pilots in combat with Russia.”

Western Ukraine and its major city, Lviv, have become a transit point for civilians fleeing the war elsewhere in the country, but recent strikes have shattered the notion that the area will remain a refuge.

“This is the third now military facility or airfield that the Russians have struck in western Ukraine in just the last couple of days,” Kirby said Sunday. “So clearly, at least from an airstrike perspective, they’re broadening their target sets.”
What is this idiocy about a War of Ukrainian Succession?

Why do you constantly criticize NATO? NATO has limited Putin’s delusional and malignant ambitions.

The American far right is acting treasonous again, promoting Russian garbage propaganda about Ukrainian “biolabs”.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/q ... -rcna19392

Putin is a war criminal and he has led Russia into a quagmire, inflicting a catastrophic tragedy on the Ukrainian people.

Russia’s economy will wind up devastated and Russia will become a third tier pariah nation. This will not end well for Putin.

DocBarrister
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old salt
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by old salt »

DocBarrister wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:28 am Why do you constantly criticize NATO?
Having to deal with the Parliament of Estonia calling for an air war with Russia. Maybe they could buy an airplane & join us,
...or maybe Poland will give Estonia their Migs, if the US will backfill them with new F-16's slated for Taiwan.
These former Russian provinces are quite demanding. Thanks for the consultation.
DocBarrister
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Old Salt and the Contemporary American Fascist Movement

Post by DocBarrister »

old salt wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:50 am
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:28 am Why do you constantly criticize NATO?
Having to deal with the Parliament of Estonia calling for an air war with Russia. Maybe they could buy an airplane & join us,
...or maybe Poland will give Estonia their Migs, if the US will backfill them with new F-16's.
These former Russian provinces are quite demanding. Thanks for the consultation.
I would say your repugnant pro-Putin views would cost you what little credibility you have, old salt, but you have no credibility at all to lose.

Both Estonian and Polish troops served in Afghanistan, Estonia for a decade and Poland for nearly two decades, all as part of their responsibility to NATO and the United States, the only NATO nation to ever invoke Article 5 of the NATO treaty.

Estonia and Poland are not “former Russian provinces,” they are independent nations and NATO allies who answered America’s call after we were attacked on September 11, 2001.

And instead of standing by these allies, you choose instead to spread the smears of the malignant war criminal, Vladimir Putin, and his murderous fascist state that is contemporary Russia?

Your support of Putin and Russia makes you a supporter of a fascist and fascism.

You can end any pretense, which must be tiring for you, since you are once again showing your true colors.

Just come out and admit it … you admire Putin because he is a fascist, and you are rooting for Russia against Ukraine because you, in your heart, support fascism. You would not be the first American fascist in history, and you will not be the last. And you have plenty of company among the Trump cultists.

That is what you represent, is it not … the latest manifestation of the American fascist movement?

Just admit the obvious and maybe we can finally have an honest contribution from you on this forum.

DocBarrister
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Essexfenwick
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Essexfenwick »

can't help thinking that the West is completely end-of-empire delusional. Russia being welded to China financially and technologically, banning all Western propaganda, is somehow a win. Stop of outflow of Russian money to the West is somehow a win.
Total severance from the utterly corrupt Western media and academic establishment is somehow a win. Possibility of nationalizing Western investment in Russia is somehow a win.
Russia's economy will never collapse as some hope, it has vast physical resources which are the hardest currency of all, and half the world will gladly take if off their hands. The stupid boycotts will damage Europe much more than Russia. And China will never sever its ties to Russia for the same reason, an overland route that cannot be interdicted by the American Navy. All this nonsense is intended to crush Western Europe, not Russia.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Old Salt and the Contemporary American Fascist Movement

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

DocBarrister wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:14 am
old salt wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:50 am
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:28 am Why do you constantly criticize NATO?
Having to deal with the Parliament of Estonia calling for an air war with Russia. Maybe they could buy an airplane & join us,
...or maybe Poland will give Estonia their Migs, if the US will backfill them with new F-16's.
These former Russian provinces are quite demanding. Thanks for the consultation.
I would say your repugnant pro-Putin views would cost you what little credibility you have, old salt, but you have no credibility at all to lose.

Both Estonian and Polish troops served in Afghanistan, Estonia for a decade and Poland for nearly two decades, all as part of their responsibility to NATO and the United States, the only NATO nation to ever invoke Article 5 of the NATO treaty.

Estonia and Poland are not “former Russian provinces,” they are independent nations and NATO allies who answered America’s call after we were attacked on September 11, 2001.

And instead of standing by these allies, you choose instead to spread the smears of the malignant war criminal, Vladimir Putin, and his murderous fascist state that is contemporary Russia?

Your support of Putin and Russia makes you a supporter of a fascist and fascism.

You can end any pretense, which must be tiring for you, since you are once again showing your true colors.

Just come out and admit it … you admire Putin because he is a fascist, and you are rooting for Russia against Ukraine because you, in your heart, support fascism. You would not be the first American fascist in history, and you will not be the last. And you have plenty of company among the Trump cultists.

That is what you represent, is it not … the latest manifestation of the American fascist movement?

Just admit the obvious and maybe we can finally have an honest contribution from you on this forum.

DocBarrister
Mask slipped years ago…..
“I wish you would!”
Essexfenwick
Posts: 1158
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Essexfenwick »

I love how fascists call weakening government power, breaking up centralized authority and more power to the individual “fascist”.
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dislaxxic
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Location: Moving to Montana Soon...

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by dislaxxic »

Ruh Roh
Putin reportedly fired several generals and arrested Federal Security Service (FSB) intelligence officers in an internal purge. Ukrainian Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council Oleksiy Danilov stated on March 9 that the Kremlin has replaced eight generals due to their failures in Ukraine, though ISW cannot independently verify this information.[21] Putin additionally detained several personnel from the FSB’s 5th Service, which is responsible for informing Putin about the political situation in Ukraine. The Federal Protective Service and 9th Directorate of the FSB (its internal security department) reportedly raided the 5th Service and over 20 other locations on March 11. Several media outlets reported that 5th Service Head Sergey Beseda and his deputy Anatoly Bolyukh are under house arrest on March 11.[22] Independent Russian media outlet Meduza claimed the 5th Service might have provided Putin with false information about the political situation in Ukraine ahead of his invasion out of fear of contradicting Putin‘s desired prognosis that a war in Ukraine would be a smooth undertaking.[23] Putin is likely carrying out an internal purge of general officers and intelligence personnel. He may be doing so either to save face after failing to consider their assessments in his own pre-invasion decision-making or in retaliation for faulty intelligence he may believe they provided him.
..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: Old Salt and the Contemporary American Fascist Movement

Post by Peter Brown »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:41 am
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:14 am
old salt wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:50 am
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:28 am Why do you constantly criticize NATO?
Having to deal with the Parliament of Estonia calling for an air war with Russia. Maybe they could buy an airplane & join us,
...or maybe Poland will give Estonia their Migs, if the US will backfill them with new F-16's.
These former Russian provinces are quite demanding. Thanks for the consultation.
I would say your repugnant pro-Putin views would cost you what little credibility you have, old salt, but you have no credibility at all to lose.

Both Estonian and Polish troops served in Afghanistan, Estonia for a decade and Poland for nearly two decades, all as part of their responsibility to NATO and the United States, the only NATO nation to ever invoke Article 5 of the NATO treaty.

Estonia and Poland are not “former Russian provinces,” they are independent nations and NATO allies who answered America’s call after we were attacked on September 11, 2001.

And instead of standing by these allies, you choose instead to spread the smears of the malignant war criminal, Vladimir Putin, and his murderous fascist state that is contemporary Russia?

Your support of Putin and Russia makes you a supporter of a fascist and fascism.

You can end any pretense, which must be tiring for you, since you are once again showing your true colors.

Just come out and admit it … you admire Putin because he is a fascist, and you are rooting for Russia against Ukraine because you, in your heart, support fascism. You would not be the first American fascist in history, and you will not be the last. And you have plenty of company among the Trump cultists.

That is what you represent, is it not … the latest manifestation of the American fascist movement?

Just admit the obvious and maybe we can finally have an honest contribution from you on this forum.

DocBarrister
Mask slipped years ago…..




You know, guys, I don’t comment much on ‘Russia/Ukraine’ because it’s not an easy black-white scenario, and it probably makes sense to wait and see how things shake out. Personally, I am ‘pro-Ukraine’ whatever that means, but I’m absolutely gobsmacked that you gave the entitlement to call a former American service member ‘a fascist’. I don’t really make a can of beans about most personal insults on the Internet, but this time, I do.

Both of should get you a suspension. You don’t even know what the term fascist means, and you definitely wouldn’t know a fascist if you happened to run into one.

Its unconscionable that you feel so blithely free to throw the word around, doubly so to a former service member.

I’m about to report you. I hope the site suspends you; you deserve it.

I also hope you’ll apologize to Old Salt.
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