Sensible Gun Safety

[jhu72]

A 2018 report on police shootings claims 50% are perpetrated on the mentally ill.

Are mental health issues reason to be shot and killed by an employee of the state; a state sanctioned execution. More and more the answer seems to be yes. This is not by accident.

From that article - “Seriously? People are dying because an armed police officer is concerned about the danger a small pocketknife might pose?“

Yeah, what harm could a tiny little thing like a box cutter do?

I don’t know your personal situation jhu, but I have a son on a police department. While there are multiple times each week where he has to prepare to use lethal force (especially if he’s called to a break-in or potential break-in and he needs to clear a building), he’s never had to use that lethality. But I’m very glad he has the ability to use it should somebody, even if they’re mentally ill, come at him with a knife, or worse.

As a kid, I carried a pocket knife, 3" blade. Came in handy. My father taught me, he had carried a small blade his entire life, growing up on a farm. I doubt that a police officer with a gun has ever been seriously injured by someone brandishing a foldup 2" or 3" blade once the COP was aware of the blade. Shooting an individual at a distance, or multiple COPS shooting an individual at a distance hardly seems a reasonable response. I'll bet in 99+% of cases, the COP(s) shoot before the individual with the small knife is ever close enough to be a threat of even injury, let alone death.

[6ftstick]

A 2018 report on police shootings claims 50% are perpetrated on the mentally ill.

Are mental health issues reason to be shot and killed by an employee of the state; a state sanctioned execution. More and more the answer seems to be yes. This is not by accident.

From that article - “Seriously? People are dying because an armed police officer is concerned about the danger a small pocketknife might pose?“

Yeah, what harm could a tiny little thing like a box cutter do?

I don’t know your personal situation jhu, but I have a son on a police department. While there are multiple times each week where he has to prepare to use lethal force (especially if he’s called to a break-in or potential break-in and he needs to clear a building), he’s never had to use that lethality. But I’m very glad he has the ability to use it should somebody, even if they’re mentally ill, come at him with a knife, or worse.

As a kid, I carried a pocket knife, 3" blade. Came in handy. My father taught me, he had carried a small blade his entire life, growing up on a farm. I doubt that a police officer with a gun has ever been seriously injured by someone brandishing a foldup 2" or 3" blade once the COP was aware of the blade. Shooting an individual at a distance, or multiple COPS shooting an individual at a distance hardly seems a reasonable response. I'll bet in 99+% of cases, the COP(s) shoot before the individual with the small knife is ever close enough to be a threat of even injury, let alone death.

Really every cop should be willing to take a three inch deep hole in the stomach, thigh, shoulder or neck. What're they get paid for anyway!

[SCLaxAttack]

A 2018 report on police shootings claims 50% are perpetrated on the mentally ill.

Are mental health issues reason to be shot and killed by an employee of the state; a state sanctioned execution. More and more the answer seems to be yes. This is not by accident.

From that article - “Seriously? People are dying because an armed police officer is concerned about the danger a small pocketknife might pose?“

Yeah, what harm could a tiny little thing like a box cutter do?

I don’t know your personal situation jhu, but I have a son on a police department. While there are multiple times each week where he has to prepare to use lethal force (especially if he’s called to a break-in or potential break-in and he needs to clear a building), he’s never had to use that lethality. But I’m very glad he has the ability to use it should somebody, even if they’re mentally ill, come at him with a knife, or worse.

As a kid, I carried a pocket knife, 3" blade. Came in handy. My father taught me, he had carried a small blade his entire life, growing up on a farm. I doubt that a police officer with a gun has ever been seriously injured by someone brandishing a foldup 2" or 3" blade once the COP was aware of the blade. Shooting an individual at a distance, or multiple COPS shooting an individual at a distance hardly seems a reasonable response. I'll bet in 99+% of cases, the COP(s) shoot before the individual with the small knife is ever close enough to be a threat of even injury, let alone death.

You, and your dad, are probably both law abiding citizens who would never think to draw a knife in a circumstance with a police officer.

I’m not disputing that cops can make a wrong decision, but to say cops shouldn’t bring a gun to a knife fight is plain wrong. I don’t want to get a call when my son’s on duty.

Here’s how fast things can escalate when cops are trying to be nice guys - https://www.full30.com/watch/MDA2NDM4/g ... th-a-knife

[jhu72]

jhu72, tell us what you want the law enforcement standards of practice to be when confronted with with an unknown person brandishing a firearm? We can then discuss your idea of how it should be vs. the current standards implemented by law enforcement.

I thought I had made it pretty clear this is not really an issue of the individual killed even having a gun. People are killed because we have set the bar of being a threat too low. You don't need a gun. You run, you get shot. You for some reason don't follow a lawful command, you get shot. You carry a small knife, you get shot. Behave a little strangely, you get shot. You have a gun, but don't threaten, you get shot. You have a toy gun, you get shot. You are a large individual, you get shot. You are black, while doing any of this, your chances of being shot go up 2-3 times.

"Hands up don't shot", is really solid advice for your average citizen when interacting with today's hair trigger COPs. If you are black, it is mandatory.

[SCLaxAttack]

jhu72, tell us what you want the law enforcement standards of practice to be when confronted with with an unknown person brandishing a firearm? We can then discuss your idea of how it should be vs. the current standards implemented by law enforcement.

I thought I had made it pretty clear this is not really an issue of the individual killed even having a gun. People are killed because we have set the bar of being a threat too low. You don't need a gun. You run, you get shot. You for some reason don't follow a lawful command, you get shot. You carry a small knife, you get shot. Behave a little strangely, you get shot. You have a gun, but don't threaten, you get shot. You have a toy gun, you get shot. You are a large individual, you get shot. You are black, while doing any of this, your chances of being shot go up 2-3 times.

"Hands up don't shot", is really solid advice for your average citizen when interacting with today's hair trigger COPs. If you are black, it is mandatory.

Maybe it’s time for you to get a touch of reality and go through a “shoot, don’t shoot” drill like this community activist did. His tune changed, yours might, too. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WRHCAUpdAc4

[cradleandshoot]

jhu72, tell us what you want the law enforcement standards of practice to be when confronted with with an unknown person brandishing a firearm? We can then discuss your idea of how it should be vs. the current standards implemented by law enforcement.

I thought I had made it pretty clear this is not really an issue of the individual killed even having a gun. People are killed because we have set the bar of being a threat too low. You don't need a gun. You run, you get shot. You for some reason don't follow a lawful command, you get shot. You carry a small knife, you get shot. Behave a little strangely, you get shot. You have a gun, but don't threaten, you get shot. You have a toy gun, you get shot. You are a large individual, you get shot. You are black, while doing any of this, your chances of being shot go up 2-3 times.

"Hands up don't shot", is really solid advice for your average citizen when interacting with today's hair trigger COPs. If you are black, it is mandatory.

Why are the cops "hair trigger" in the first place? Because they are human beings and they are scared and they are forced to deal with the same life threatening situations day in and day out. I don't mean to criticize you 72 but are you afraid for your life everyday that go into work? Are you afraid for your life everyday that you go in to work that that the most mundane encounter you will have with a person could be a threat to your life? Training is a big help but it is not the only answer. Is that car you are pulling over at 2am because it is driving erratically with no headlights the person with a tude who is going to come out shooting at you. It is the cumulative effect of dealing with the same life threatening situations everyday. That is where the hair trigger response comes from. You get complacent and you will die. There is no police officer that has the luxury of being laid back and relaxed. At least you don't if you want to live for very long. https://www.democratandchronicle.com/st ... 373718001/ This is anecdotal to most but the real lesson of police professionalism in this tragedy came from Officer Piersons partner. After witnessing his fellow officer being shot in the throat how did he respond? He could have shot the suspect dead and nobody would have questioned his decision. The officer shot the suspect once, subdued him for other officers then raced his wounded partner to the hospital where he died from choking on his own blood. Some of you folks wonder why the police have a hair trigger response? Why because there are a lot of people out there that will take great pleasure in killing you. I don't thonk most of us average Joes have to deal with this sort of stress in our everyday jobs.

[jhu72]

jhu72, tell us what you want the law enforcement standards of practice to be when confronted with with an unknown person brandishing a firearm? We can then discuss your idea of how it should be vs. the current standards implemented by law enforcement.

I thought I had made it pretty clear this is not really an issue of the individual killed even having a gun. People are killed because we have set the bar of being a threat too low. You don't need a gun. You run, you get shot. You for some reason don't follow a lawful command, you get shot. You carry a small knife, you get shot. Behave a little strangely, you get shot. You have a gun, but don't threaten, you get shot. You have a toy gun, you get shot. You are a large individual, you get shot. You are black, while doing any of this, your chances of being shot go up 2-3 times.

"Hands up don't shot", is really solid advice for your average citizen when interacting with today's hair trigger COPs. If you are black, it is mandatory.

Maybe it’s time for you to get a touch of reality and go through a “shoot, don’t shoot” drill like this community activist did. His tune changed, yours might, too. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WRHCAUpdAc4

Sorry, but this hardly covers it. This shooting drill is great if followed, but it is clearly insufficient when so many people are being shot in iffy situations, and situations where there are clear failures of policy. There is an entire society (the poor of all races, colors) that don't trust the police. That lack of trust is beginning to extend beyond the poor. Your advice will do nothing to address their concerns. You are asking them to not believe their own eyes, their own experiences.

Statistics clearly show, on the street policing is not a particularly dangerous profession. Chances of being killed or seriously injured are well below that of many other professions. Even the types of deaths and injuries are more likely to be due to the same causes as other professions where the work is outdoors in general traffic. Traffic accidents, etc. The chances of death or injury due to an armed citizen, gun, knife, lead pipe, etc., are way over stated by those arguing how dangerous police work is. As a society, we have chosen to protect the police officer in preference to protecting the citizenry in its interactions with the police officer. The police officer on the beat is well aware of this. Society has provided the COP with his emergency drop piece, "I feared for my life".

Rather than owning up to this, we have some people chopping logic at the thought that the police perform ad hoc executions or that the citizenry should consider taking a position of being leary of their interactions with the police.

[dislaxxic]

Thanks John Wayne(andShoot). You and the rest of the Trumpers watch too much TV and movies. Not to mention the fear-mongering Faux News gasbags that continue to hype this issue for all the wrong reasons. Of COURSE these are dangerous jobs. Of COURSE there are situations that require extra caution/lethal response. You never know when that schlub with the 3" blade is really the Terminator, about to morph into the ultimate killing machine.

Honest to GAWD, look at where the conservative lizard brain dwells these days...

..

[runrussellrun]

A 2018 report on police shootings claims 50% are perpetrated on the mentally ill.

Are mental health issues reason to be shot and killed by an employee of the state; a state sanctioned execution. More and more the answer seems to be yes. This is not by accident.

From that article - “Seriously? People are dying because an armed police officer is concerned about the danger a small pocketknife might pose?“

Yeah, what harm could a tiny little thing like a box cutter do?

I don’t know your personal situation jhu, but I have a son on a police department. While there are multiple times each week where he has to prepare to use lethal force (especially if he’s called to a break-in or potential break-in and he needs to clear a building), he’s never had to use that lethality. But I’m very glad he has the ability to use it should somebody, even if they’re mentally ill, come at him with a knife, or worse.

As a kid, I carried a pocket knife, 3" blade. Came in handy. My father taught me, he had carried a small blade his entire life, growing up on a farm. I doubt that a police officer with a gun has ever been seriously injured by someone brandishing a foldup 2" or 3" blade once the COP was aware of the blade. Shooting an individual at a distance, or multiple COPS shooting an individual at a distance hardly seems a reasonable response. I'll bet in 99+% of cases, the COP(s) shoot before the individual with the small knife is ever close enough to be a threat of even injury, let alone death.

Great. Take the guns away from the cops too. (british bobbies anyone??)
And, no more bodyguards, armed with an array of weapons, are allowed to hover around anyone. No more secret service either.
Can't wait to read the rebutts.

[dislaxxic]

Police Policy for Sale

"Lexipol, a private for-profit company, has quietly become one of the most powerful voices in American law enforcement policy."

..

[runrussellrun]

Police Policy for Sale

"Lexipol, a private for-profit company, has quietly become one of the most powerful voices in American law enforcement policy."

..

Well....they learned from the best that the TAATS can provide. Last four US presidents and the loving US Congress LOVE private for profit companies that replace our troop count, overseas.

OH....and I love the photo of Berkeley cops, getting to do battle. With pretends. and the 90% of Kalifornia cop/law agencies use Lexi's policies. Wonder what Kamala thinks of this? WHy don't you ask her, bart.

[Typical Lax Dad]

A 2018 report on police shootings claims 50% are perpetrated on the mentally ill.

Are mental health issues reason to be shot and killed by an employee of the state; a state sanctioned execution. More and more the answer seems to be yes. This is not by accident.

From that article - “Seriously? People are dying because an armed police officer is concerned about the danger a small pocketknife might pose?“

Yeah, what harm could a tiny little thing like a box cutter do?

I don’t know your personal situation jhu, but I have a son on a police department. While there are multiple times each week where he has to prepare to use lethal force (especially if he’s called to a break-in or potential break-in and he needs to clear a building), he’s never had to use that lethality. But I’m very glad he has the ability to use it should somebody, even if they’re mentally ill, come at him with a knife, or worse.

As a kid, I carried a pocket knife, 3" blade. Came in handy. My father taught me, he had carried a small blade his entire life, growing up on a farm. I doubt that a police officer with a gun has ever been seriously injured by someone brandishing a foldup 2" or 3" blade once the COP was aware of the blade. Shooting an individual at a distance, or multiple COPS shooting an individual at a distance hardly seems a reasonable response. I'll bet in 99+% of cases, the COP(s) shoot before the individual with the small knife is ever close enough to be a threat of even injury, let alone death.

Great. Take the guns away from the cops too. (british bobbies anyone??)
And, no more bodyguards, armed with an array of weapons, are allowed to hover around anyone. No more secret service either.
Can't wait to read the rebutts.

The voice of reason.

[runrussellrun]

dripping with......

....what's YOUR solution

[SCLaxAttack]

jhu72, tell us what you want the law enforcement standards of practice to be when confronted with with an unknown person brandishing a firearm? We can then discuss your idea of how it should be vs. the current standards implemented by law enforcement.

I thought I had made it pretty clear this is not really an issue of the individual killed even having a gun. People are killed because we have set the bar of being a threat too low. You don't need a gun. You run, you get shot. You for some reason don't follow a lawful command, you get shot. You carry a small knife, you get shot. Behave a little strangely, you get shot. You have a gun, but don't threaten, you get shot. You have a toy gun, you get shot. You are a large individual, you get shot. You are black, while doing any of this, your chances of being shot go up 2-3 times.

"Hands up don't shot", is really solid advice for your average citizen when interacting with today's hair trigger COPs. If you are black, it is mandatory.

Maybe it’s time for you to get a touch of reality and go through a “shoot, don’t shoot” drill like this community activist did. His tune changed, yours might, too. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WRHCAUpdAc4

Sorry, but this hardly covers it. This shooting drill is great if followed, but it is clearly insufficient when so many people are being shot in iffy situations, and situations where there are clear failures of policy. There is an entire society (the poor of all races, colors) that don't trust the police. That lack of trust is beginning to extend beyond the poor. Your advice will do nothing to address their concerns. You are asking them to not believe their own eyes, their own experiences.

Statistics clearly show, on the street policing is not a particularly dangerous profession. Chances of being killed or seriously injured are well below that of many other professions. Even the types of deaths and injuries are more likely to be due to the same causes as other professions where the work is outdoors in general traffic. Traffic accidents, etc. The chances of death or injury due to an armed citizen, gun, knife, lead pipe, etc., are way over stated by those arguing how dangerous police work is. As a society, we have chosen to protect the police officer in preference to protecting the citizenry in its interactions with the police officer. The police officer on the beat is well aware of this. Society has provided the COP with his emergency drop piece, "I feared for my life".

Rather than owning up to this, we have some people chopping logic at the thought that the police perform ad hoc executions or that the citizenry should consider taking a position of being leary of their interactions with the police.

I couldn’t risk you, or others, thinking no response to these ridiculous statements by you were an acknowledgment of truth. Your opinions aren’t worth a point by point rebuttal, but you can find evidence of falsehood and incorrectness of each here - https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/ca ... 002500001/

It’s funny (no it’s not, but you probably think it is) that policing has one of the highest rates of non-fatal injuries, and that it’s the only one of the 25 most dangerous jobs where the leading cause of injury is “intentional injury by other person.” The only occupation with more total injuries is truck drivers - due to the number of accidents they’re in.

Get your facts straight. And if it’s so important to you that your first responder be in the most fatal job in the U.S. next time you find yourself in trouble call a tree removal service instead of your local law enforcement.

[jhu72]

I was totally aware of that list when I made my last post, IN FACT I WAS LOOKING AT IT. My last post is absolutely fair and true. The police, #14 most dangerous profession is less than twice as dangerous as the #25 profession. The number #5 most dangerous profession is more than twice as dangerous as the #14. The top 5 as a group are more dangerous than the bottom 20 of the list combined, based on deaths per capita. This is the point. To listen to the friends of the police theirs is the most dangerous job, bar none.

Policing is more dangerous than most professions, it however is not off the charts dangerous. It is less dangerous than a sales job where you spend lots of time on the road in automobiles (also truck drivers). It is only ~1 death per 100,000 more dangerous than being a taxi driver!! That's the truth!

The argument that injuries are more significant than other professions, bares some truth but is overstated. The statistic you are quoting is not per capita. You compare it to other professions with similar per capita death rates and you find that the policing profession is 2 to 5 times larger than that other profession. You cannot attribute all police injuries to interaction with the public. If you compare to truck drivers / road warriors which is as a group 4.5 times larger than the policing profession you find that all but 11,000 of those police injuries can be explained by accidents dealing with being on the road or generally out and about.

None the less I am not minimizing injuries caused by interaction with the public, only pointing to a reasonable point of comparison. Perhaps if there was more trust, these injuries would decrease.

[Typical Lax Dad]

dripping with......

....what's YOUR solution

More guns?

[runrussellrun]

dripping with......

....what's YOUR solution

More guns?

Great....you qualify as a hopkins coach with that suggestion

[Typical Lax Dad]

dripping with......

....what's YOUR solution

More guns?

Great....you qualify as a hopkins coach with that suggestion

A lot more guns?

[runrussellrun]

dripping with......

....what's YOUR solution

More guns?

Great....you qualify as a hopkins coach with that suggestion

A lot more guns?

no....more dynamic stretching time....so valuable.

[runrussellrun]

I was totally aware of that list when I made my last post, IN FACT I WAS LOOKING AT IT. My last post is absolutely fair and true. The police, #14 most dangerous profession is less than twice as dangerous as the #25 profession. The number #5 most dangerous profession is more than twice as dangerous as the #14. The top 5 as a group are more dangerous than the bottom 20 of the list combined, based on deaths per capita. This is the point. To listen to the friends of the police theirs is the most dangerous job, bar none.

Policing is more dangerous than most professions, it however is not off the charts dangerous. It is less dangerous than a sales job where you spend lots of time on the road in automobiles (also truck drivers). It is only ~1 death per 100,000 more dangerous than being a taxi driver!! That's the truth!

The argument that injuries are more significant than other professions, bares some truth but is overstated. The statistic you are quoting is not per capita. You compare it to other professions with similar per capita death rates and you find that the policing profession is 2 to 5 times larger than that other profession. You cannot attribute all police injuries to interaction with the public. If you compare to truck drivers / road warriors which is as a group 4.5 times larger than the policing profession you find that all but 11,000 of those police injuries can be explained by accidents dealing with being on the road or generally out and about.

None the less I am not minimizing injuries caused by interaction with the public, only pointing to a reasonable point of comparison. Perhaps if there was more trust, these injuries would decrease.

Do you distrust the police, jhu72? Do you agree with "guns for me" Bloomberg, arming Hopkins cops?