Young Harris lacrosse

[NY716]

NGU has bungled lacrosse for years? If I may ask, why do you say that. They always seem to be a pretty competitive team. They’ve played a very competitive non league schedule in recent years.

[RedFromMI]

NGU has bungled lacrosse for years? If I may ask, why do you say that. They always seem to be a pretty competitive team. They’ve played a very competitive non league schedule in recent years.

They have been sorta mired in fourth place in Conference Carolinas - behind Stone, Abbey and UMO. With Stone gone to the SAC, they will be working on overtaking only one or two to get to the top of the conference heap. They just need to take the next steps...

[WhiteCarrera]

Agree with Red ....

and in a conversation about Young Harris, maybe the biggest bunglers of bungled bungling, everyone else looks pretty competent by comparison.

[River Donkey]

Agree with Red ....

and in a conversation about Young Harris, maybe the biggest bunglers of bungled bungling, everyone else looks pretty competent by comparison.

Bungled?? They backed the head coach in order to clean up a toxic situation. If that’s bungling the situation then what do you suggest they should have done? Not sure why the HC left after getting what he wanted from the administration.

[dberglax]

Donkey, Donkey, Donkey... here we go again with the "toxic situation" chatter from someone who knows zero about the situation or the team in question. Maybe Donkey, the AD made a very bad hire, and didn't listen to the players. All 33 players mind you. Maybe, have a sit down with players and coach and hash it out like the players requested. The guy QUIT. that should tell you enough about the coach. Last I recall its the players who commit to play for a school and pay the tuition in order to keep that school open. Also to pay the coaches salary. The AD and Pres just sent that program back 5 years. Bungled?? I'd say yessir!

[River Donkey]

Ok, fair enough. I only know what I read about the situation. Normally the coach is hung out to dry from the administration. The fact that he quit after getting his way says a lot about the coach. I agree that the AD was a little extreme in her decision, but you need to understand that the lacrosse program is only one team in her athletic department and maybe she wants her programs to be run a certain way. There has to be more to the story as far as off field issues or something along those lines. I’m just an outsider looking in on a situation I’ve only seen a couple of times. And in the past when extreme action was taken, there were some deep rooted issues with the team. Only the future will tell if a bad decision was made.
Off topic a little- does anyone know where the formers players have ended up? Definitely a story worth following.

[laxmarmot]

Anyone close to the inner workings on a new Coach ?
Every week that ticks by with no HC, or staff to work on forming a new team is one that makes the task harder on getting this program back on it's feet.
Which it turn only illustrates the problem MAY be further up the food chain, as several posters have thought. IMHO.

[Warrior62]

They have really screwed up mens lacrosse for years. I hate to say it but might be time to just drop program or take a step back and really so it right . Just don't keep doing it half ass

[Matnum PI]

Not minimizing blame here or there but... This pandemic doesn't help an AD do their job.

[laxmarmot]

This problem started long before the current out break.
Seems to me the problem started when the 1st Head Coach was let go. That player problem should and could have been resolved with the hire of an experienced Head Coach that could deal with players that want what they want not what is best for the program, that's what being a team is all about.
However, from the outside it appears that the players interest was more important to the school than the overall health and development of the program. Which by the way was progressing along the standard growth path of growth and development each year.
The AD dropped the ball and hired Coaches lacking in experience in team and program building. Opting for someone that wasn't experienced in 'herding cats' so to say. Again, this falls on the upper leadership in the school, the virus just prolongs the programs restart and growth. How the school heals and comes out of this self inflected wound will tell the story, they either go the just another untested new Asst. given a chance at a 1st HC job, or their go for quality and build a program that people look to as a maget for players/students to attend and learn.
I hoping for the latter choice.

[shaadb-man]

Marmot and others

Who is this magical coach that you keep trying to bang your drum and conjure up that is an experienced head coach with a good track record and team building/starting experience?

Look at all the hires this year and for the past 5 for that matter. All assistants, or low level D3/NAIA that don't come anywhere near what you are looking for, why would YH be any different?

I asked on Huntsville thread for people to name any coaches at the D2 level hired in the last decade that fit the criteria of experienced HC with good track record and we all came up with a total of 4... FOUR!


So lets try this, what head coaches with the track record that you are looking for do you think will leave their current position for YH and why?

[laxmarmot]

IMHO there are tested proven Coaches thru out the NAIA, D-3, D-2 ranks that are always looking to better themselves, or move on for various reasons. How about you get the list of the Coaches that applied and to UAH, Maryville, and YHC. Look to see if there are any current HC's on that list, I'm sure there where, and then tell me the AD went with the best candidate, vs the cheapest or most mold-able to their system candidate. Teams like the 3 we are currently discussing should be are looking for a Head Coach that can take their program to the next level. These 3 teams are established and have gone thru the "sprouting" phase of their growth, and then they hit some type of problem that left them looking for a new HC. So look for someone that can pickup the where the previous Coach left off. These programs should be looking for an experienced HC, not a 1st timer that will learn as they go at the expense of the players that have a limited time to learn/play. There is a difference between being a HC and an Asst HC, that is want I'm talking about, if the AD is just looking to fill a spot so they can move on to something else in their day-runner, then they are the problem. That is want it appears to me to be the problems here. I'm just not willing to settle for a body in a leadership position, I want and expect the BEST possible HC in any established program that is truly looking to get better. Would you want a start up teacher leading a College level class. Just MHO.
As to your 1st question, how about a Coach with proven HC leadership experience.
As to your 2nd, YHC is suffering from an self inflected wound and needs to hire someone that has "street cred", otherwise they will repeat the same experience they have had. Now they must go back to ground zero with this program. That's a shame.

[shaadb-man]

Why do we just assume these schools are getting head coaches applying? I don't know their entire applicant pools, but were acting like they're shunning experience HC just to hire some AC on the cheap. I am telling you they are not! Over 75% of D2 coaches in the top 25 had zero head coaching experience when they took over and the ones that did are at schools with much better opportunities like Tampa, Limestone, Indy, Wingate, Pace. Thats it. The rest are doing it with guys who had never done it before.

90% of D2 jobs are all the same 45ish to a little over 50ish $ in pay, decent support, facilities, location with some ups and downs in each of these categories but all manageable to be successful.

5% are better across the board like a Tampa, Adelphi, maybe Lindenwood

5% are just trash and shouldn't sponsor a team.

Contrary to what the population believes I don't think coaches want to just move around from job to job. If they have experience and have made something at their current spot why would they move to the next just to have to do the same at a similar salary. It becomes much much harder if you add a family.

I can't think of 1 low level D3 or NAIA coach that has come into D2 and been successful. There may be some but I don't know one. I am not saying they cant but looking at what D2 is it's finding the right guy that has put in his time and giving him a chance and I don't see it really changing anytime soon.

If you know for a fact they are turning down successful head coaches with experience let me know.

[D2fan]

D2 coaching is a crap shoot. How many coaches have been at their institutions for 15+ years?

Ryan at Mercyhurst
Sheehan at Le Moyne
Purdie at Adelphi
Clarke at Limestone

Any others?

And it’s been rumored some of those guys have gone after other D2 jobs.

Compared to the D1 and D3 the D2 gigs are not highly sought after. The pay isn’t that high, you probably have secondary duties in the department and need to bring in admissions numbers for your school.

Some schools like Lenoir Rhyne and Wingate strike gold. The staff at UNC was let go and Paradine was in the area for LR. Wingate is able to hire Boyle after Dowling shuts down. But those cases are few and far between. I also think that some coaches are underachieving at schools that should be contenders.

I think for YHU, it just seems like a poor locker room culture and an administration that doesn’t know how to fix it. I do see value in bringing someone who comes from success, but again I don't know if that candidate is in the applicant pool. Whatever the case, they need to bring someone in that has a vision and can recruit players to achieve that vision.

[section32]

Agree with Red ....

and in a conversation about Young Harris, maybe the biggest bunglers of bungled bungling, everyone else looks pretty competent by comparison.

Bungled?? They backed the head coach in order to clean up a toxic situation. If that’s bungling the situation then what do you suggest they should have done? Not sure why the HC left after getting what he wanted from the administration.

Perhaps when the coach was backed by the school and then the players defected, it was a complete re-start. No 2021 season, but go ahead and rebuild it from the ground up, Coach. The university didn’t announce the cancellation of the 2021 season until they announced the coach’s resignation. But perhaps it was already decided. That’s a tall order to recruit to and a season without coaching. Plus you have to recruit through all the negative baggage. It might be better for both the coach and the school to have a start fresh. Gets rid of any baggage all the way around.
There was clearly a problem with this program when the prior HC was “removed”. The school said they hired the new coach to change the culture. The culture clearly didn’t want to change. Now those players are gone. The only way to get rid of cancer sometimes is to cut it out in it’s entirety. It was probably a high risk move when the coaching change was made. The likelihood of a mutiny was fairly high. That’s what happened. Now the university can start fresh without much in the way of scholarship obligation because of all of the transfers.

[Warrior62]

Young Harris is a train wreck right now. Not sure what happened in last search but job was just posted again. Admin doesn't seem to have any plan in what needs to happen to fix this

[dberglax]

Finally people are waking up to the fact this was all an ADMIN and AD issue all along. A bit of history: Current AD used to be the NCAA Compliance officer at school. Prior coach went to her for eligibility update on a key player for the 2020 season. She told him he was good to go. Then she becomes the AD. Prior coach goes back to the new NCAA compliance officer right before spring to verify the player was eligible. Was told NO. He in turn went to the AD and asked what was up. Rather than own up to her mistake on this key player--she fired the coach and blamed it all on a toxic team locker room. (I assume there was some back and forth with prior coach and AD). Now, AD has to hire a new coach before season starts. No communication to the players or parents. Remember 13 freshman committed to the prior coach. Now we all know the AD knows absolutely nothing about lacrosse and makes a terrible hire in a rush decision. We all know what happened next--33 players went to AD for a sit down with her and coach to discuss the mistreatment. AD/Admin then cancels season. Stating a toxic team couldn't adjust to new coach. HA Then the coach QUIT and they canceled 2021 season. (Final nail in that coaches coffin if you ask me) Let me remind everyone that this team was not at all toxic. How can 13 Freshman all of a sudden be toxic. Over half of the team made the academic honor roll (most of any team on campus) I knew this team and they were close knit, a solid group of players. They had big goals to win conference and quite possibly make some NCAA noise in 2021. They had a few absolute Players on the team. One attackman transferred from Denver--i believe he was ranked in the top 50 of his HS class. #21 middie IMO was one of the best players I have seen play at any level. Solid overall D. They were a young team that needed 1 year to gel, especially the freshman. That's all beside the point now because we will never know. The AD/Admin is to blame for whats going on at YH. It's been mentioned before--They went back at least 5 years with the decisions they decided to make.

[Matnum PI]

who knows what's true and what is not and... dberg, what you're saying, rings true. At least a lot of it. Shame...

[southlaxfacts]

They had big goals to win conference and quite possibly make some NCAA noise in 2021.

LOL

[dberglax]

They did win the GLVC regular season 2 years ago. Not that far fetched to believe they could win the conference. No one said win the NCAA, but they win conference they would get in. Anything could happen at that point...