All things CoronaVirus

[seacoaster]

All the best people:

How Jared Kushner’s Secret Testing Plan “Went Poof Into Thin Air”

This spring, a team working under the president's son-in-law produced a plan for an aggressive, coordinated national COVID-19 response that could have brought the pandemic under control. So why did the White House spike it in favor of a shambolic 50-state response?

By Katherine Eban
July 30, 2020

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/07 ... o-thin-air

Great read - bad contracting practices, using the wrong people to do the job, thinking he was smarter than he actually is...

Because the initial large outbreaks were in D states - the decision was made to _scrap_ a national test response, because it would be politically favorable to the president...

This is not just neglect, it is acting in opposition to the health and wealth of the American people in the name of politics...

From the article:

“ Most troubling of all, perhaps, was a sentiment the expert said a member of Kushner’s team expressed: that because the virus had hit blue states hardest, a national plan was unnecessary and would not make sense politically. “The political folks believed that because it was going to be relegated to Democratic states, that they could blame those governors, and that would be an effective political strategy,” said the expert.

That logic may have swayed Kushner. “It was very clear that Jared was ultimately the decision maker as to what [plan] was going to come out,” the expert said.

On April 27, Trump stepped to a podium in the Rose Garden, flanked by members of his coronavirus task force and leaders of America’s big commercial testing laboratories, Quest Diagnostics and LabCorp, and finally announced a testing plan: It bore almost no resemblance to the one that had been forged in late March, and shifted the problem of diagnostic testing almost entirely to individual states.”

And now, the number of cases is so overwhelming that contact tracing is nearly fruitless in some states.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/31/heal ... ticleShare

Completely bungled, with an us versus them taint. All Jared.

who was the expert?

the thought of jared and his college roommate carrying out a successful testing plan, way behind the virus... is pretty humorous.

most troubling of all was actually our reliance on models that said we were basically done. which i had iterated at the time. models s*ck.

I don't think the article -- and your question may be, umm, rhetorical -- identifies the expert, which I don't much like (either).

[ardilla secreta]

MLB likely to be on its way to being shutdown as more players test positive.

[6ftstick]

When the press buried Obama for Ebola — and two Americans died
Different rules for Democrats

https://pressrun.media/p/when-the-press ... -for-ebola

"The Ebola crisis in the United States has become an anchor threatening to sink the Obama presidency" — The Hill, October 16, 2014.

... prompted by partisan hysteria voiced by Republicans the press lost its collective mind covering Ebola and crucified Obama for months, hyping concerns that a deadly domestic outbreak was imminent.

CNN's Ashleigh Banfield famously suggested Ebola was the ISIS of biological agents and raised the specter of suicide attackers brandishing Ebola — but there was lots of Obama bashing. "I think that's a very dangerous thing for President Obama, the sense that his administration is not competent to protect the American people," warned USA Today's Susan Rice.

CNN's Wolf Blitzer announced, “Ebola has certainly eroded the confidence in the way the Obama administration and medical professionals have handled it.”

Funny how so many right wing delusionals believe the news media as soooooo "liberal". As always, double standard for Dems and not one word of truth from the right wing America haters.

don't recall how deep and long the hysteria was, but don't doubt it one bit.

sex and mayhem sells.

The press never buried Obama. For anything!

[MDlaxfan76]

When all else fails, whine about Obama. Both sides...that said, the article details the press attacks and negative hyperbole about Obama's handling of the Ebola threat. BTW, apparently Susan Rice was responsible for the idea and execution/management of sending US military to Africa to fight the virus there, building hospitals etc. Huge success.

It's noon eastern, most states have not yet submitted death #'s but Florida already has 256, another new record even if that's all to be added today. 4 days in a row of new highs.

When do we recognize that ALL states need to mandate masks in public, no bars etc to get this under control and down into the infection #'s at which test, trace, isolate can actually work?

[Typical Lax Dad]

When all else fails, whine about Obama.

It's noon eastern, most states have not yet submitted death #'s but Florida already has 256, another new record even if that's all to be added today. 4 days in a row of new highs.

When do we recognize that ALL states need to mandate masks in public, no bars etc to get this under control and down into the infection #'s at which test, trace, isolate can actually work?

According to YA, those people died a couple of weeks ago and some were in car accidents but tested positive for COVID so they are included in the count so that the reporting hospital receives a bonus.

[Peter Brown]

When all else fails, whine about Obama. Both sides...that said, the article details the press attacks and negative hyperbole about Obama's handling of the Ebola threat. BTW, apparently Susan Rice was responsible for the idea and execution/management of sending US military to Africa to fight the virus there, building hospitals etc. Huge success.

It's noon eastern, most states have not yet submitted death #'s but Florida already has 256, another new record even if that's all to be added today. 4 days in a row of new highs.

When do we recognize that ALL states need to mandate masks in public, no bars etc to get this under control and down into the infection #'s at which test, trace, isolate can actually work?

Tracing doesn't work and we are at a national peak today; other than that, good post.

Here is a linked chart from Emory in Atlanta; admissions declining rapidly. This is happening elsewhere.

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status ... 96609?s=20

Back to work!!!!!

[MDlaxfan76]

When all else fails, whine about Obama. Both sides...that said, the article details the press attacks and negative hyperbole about Obama's handling of the Ebola threat. BTW, apparently Susan Rice was responsible for the idea and execution/management of sending US military to Africa to fight the virus there, building hospitals etc. Huge success.

It's noon eastern, most states have not yet submitted death #'s but Florida already has 256, another new record even if that's all to be added today. 4 days in a row of new highs.

When do we recognize that ALL states need to mandate masks in public, no bars etc to get this under control and down into the infection #'s at which test, trace, isolate can actually work?

Tracing doesn't work and we are at a national peak today; other than that, good post.

Here is a linked chart from Emory in Atlanta; admissions declining rapidly. This is happening elsewhere.

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status ... 96609?s=20

Back to work!!!!!

Tracing DOES work, but not when the virus is out of control with an R above 1.

Have to get the # of infections down to the point that our testing capacity (which has been ramped up, though not nearly enough relative to infections) can get answers within hours, worst a day, and with also very low positivity rate (meaning we're testing all people who have had suspected contact or who are going to have contact with those most vulnerable).

Need to have enough contact tracers to handle the # of actual infections. And the only way that's going to be truly feasible is by getting the infections down first.

We need a national, no BS mandate on masks and indoor crowds, no bars, house parties, etc. It's absolutely crazy this is still being resisted by so many.

Can we otherwise 'work' and some 'play'?
Sure, but wear a damn mask!!

[JoeMauer89]

MLB likely to be on its way to being shutdown as more players test positive.

They haven't shut down the MLB yet. If there are multiple outbreaks as bad as Marlins possibly, but the smart thing to do was cancel today's game. Two players on STL tested positive, plan is to play tomorrows Game Brewers-Cards, and TWO 7 Inning Doubleheaders on Sunday. Nothing yet from any credible source about canceling the season.


Go Twins,
JoeMauer89

[JoeMauer89]

When all else fails, whine about Obama. Both sides...that said, the article details the press attacks and negative hyperbole about Obama's handling of the Ebola threat. BTW, apparently Susan Rice was responsible for the idea and execution/management of sending US military to Africa to fight the virus there, building hospitals etc. Huge success.

It's noon eastern, most states have not yet submitted death #'s but Florida already has 256, another new record even if that's all to be added today. 4 days in a row of new highs.

When do we recognize that ALL states need to mandate masks in public, no bars etc to get this under control and down into the infection #'s at which test, trace, isolate can actually work?

Tracing doesn't work and we are at a national peak today; other than that, good post.

Here is a linked chart from Emory in Atlanta; admissions declining rapidly. This is happening elsewhere.

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status ... 96609?s=20

Back to work!!!!!

Tracing DOES work, but not when the virus is out of control with an R above 1.

Have to get the # of infections down to the point that our testing capacity (which has been ramped up, though not nearly enough relative to infections) can get answers within hours, worst a day, and with also very low positivity rate (meaning we're testing all people who have had suspected contact or who are going to have contact with those most vulnerable).

Need to have enough contact tracers to handle the # of actual infections. And the only way that's going to be truly feasible is by getting the infections down first.

We need a national, no BS mandate on masks and indoor crowds, no bars, house parties, etc. It's absolutely crazy this is still being resisted by so many.

Can we otherwise 'work' and some 'play'?
Sure, but wear a damn mask!!

You can't make a national mandate on house parties. These are people''s private residences, there is zero way to prevent people for getting together its human nature. The other stuff, yea that may be feasible. You also cant make a blanket "No Bars", its the same thing these restaurants/bars are businesses that have a right to be open provided they have the protocols in place. Ohio tried to get all Restaurants/Bars to close at 10PM, Bars/Restaurants sued, went to Ohio Supreme Court and sided with Bars/Restaurants for now pending the case being heard. The bars/restaurants that do not follow protocol are faced with threat of suspension/fines. Those suggestions all sound fine on paper, bu there are real consequences that come from them. Its worked in NY, I've seen it first hand. You can have fun responsibly and follow the rules!

Go Twins,
JoeMauer89

[wgdsr]

When all else fails, whine about Obama. Both sides...that said, the article details the press attacks and negative hyperbole about Obama's handling of the Ebola threat. BTW, apparently Susan Rice was responsible for the idea and execution/management of sending US military to Africa to fight the virus there, building hospitals etc. Huge success.

It's noon eastern, most states have not yet submitted death #'s but Florida already has 256, another new record even if that's all to be added today. 4 days in a row of new highs.

When do we recognize that ALL states need to mandate masks in public, no bars etc to get this under control and down into the infection #'s at which test, trace, isolate can actually work?

Tracing doesn't work and we are at a national peak today; other than that, good post.

Here is a linked chart from Emory in Atlanta; admissions declining rapidly. This is happening elsewhere.

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status ... 96609?s=20

Back to work!!!!!

Tracing DOES work, but not when the virus is out of control with an R above 1.

Have to get the # of infections down to the point that our testing capacity (which has been ramped up, though not nearly enough relative to infections) can get answers within hours, worst a day, and with also very low positivity rate (meaning we're testing all people who have had suspected contact or who are going to have contact with those most vulnerable).

Need to have enough contact tracers to handle the # of actual infections. And the only way that's going to be truly feasible is by getting the infections down first.

We need a national, no BS mandate on masks and indoor crowds, no bars, house parties, etc. It's absolutely crazy this is still being resisted by so many.

Can we otherwise 'work' and some 'play'?
Sure, but wear a damn mask!!

i think you mean a good mask.

that's a lot of stuff to come together!! my hope on improved logistics is somehow we can get test results back without a lag. i'm not sure whether tracing can be executed and whether tests can be pumped out any faster. personally, i think the positivity rate is fungible upon circumstances, but hey... i'm a rank amateur like everyone else.

good luck with the national, or even democrat state, mandate on house parties.

[jhu72]

Maybe we would be in a better place if Trump spent some time NOT whistling at his dogs. Here Cracker, good boy!

[MDlaxfan76]

When all else fails, whine about Obama. Both sides...that said, the article details the press attacks and negative hyperbole about Obama's handling of the Ebola threat. BTW, apparently Susan Rice was responsible for the idea and execution/management of sending US military to Africa to fight the virus there, building hospitals etc. Huge success.

It's noon eastern, most states have not yet submitted death #'s but Florida already has 256, another new record even if that's all to be added today. 4 days in a row of new highs.

When do we recognize that ALL states need to mandate masks in public, no bars etc to get this under control and down into the infection #'s at which test, trace, isolate can actually work?

Tracing doesn't work and we are at a national peak today; other than that, good post.

Here is a linked chart from Emory in Atlanta; admissions declining rapidly. This is happening elsewhere.

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status ... 96609?s=20

Back to work!!!!!

Tracing DOES work, but not when the virus is out of control with an R above 1.

Have to get the # of infections down to the point that our testing capacity (which has been ramped up, though not nearly enough relative to infections) can get answers within hours, worst a day, and with also very low positivity rate (meaning we're testing all people who have had suspected contact or who are going to have contact with those most vulnerable).

Need to have enough contact tracers to handle the # of actual infections. And the only way that's going to be truly feasible is by getting the infections down first.

We need a national, no BS mandate on masks and indoor crowds, no bars, house parties, etc. It's absolutely crazy this is still being resisted by so many.

Can we otherwise 'work' and some 'play'?
Sure, but wear a damn mask!!

You can't make a national mandate on house parties. These are people''s private residences, there is zero way to prevent people for getting together its human nature. The other stuff, yea that may be feasible. You also cant make a blanket "No Bars", its the same thing these restaurants/bars are businesses that have a right to be open provided they have the protocols in place. Ohio tried to get all Restaurants/Bars to close at 10PM, Bars/Restaurants sued, went to Ohio Supreme Court and sided with Bars/Restaurants for now pending the case being heard. The bars/restaurants that do not follow protocol are faced with threat of suspension/fines. Those suggestions all sound fine on paper, bu there are real consequences that come from them. Its worked in NY, I've seen it first hand. You can have fun responsibly and follow the rules!

Go Twins,
JoeMauer89

Definitely there are challenges, but yes, we can and should close down house parties and bars.
It's a national emergency.

We do NOT have a right to infect each other. The "protocols" need to be 100% masks in any public setting (that includes offices) and maintenance of 6ft distancing, no crowded areas inside, period. And that clearly includes nearly any bar, though it's theoretically possible to enforce social distancing, masks, etc in an outdoor setting...but the #'s of people would have be very small in order to maintain the distancing aspect. Just not really practical.

But yes, we also need to deal with the economic consequences of these actions.

But we need to get the # of infections way, way down and test, trace, isolate in order to allow the other things we really do need to do to not get overwhelmed by infections out of control.

We're playing for time for therapies and vaccine.

BTW, this does not mean no social interaction, including in-person. We've been making sure that we have regular such with friends, typically one couple, max two couples at a time, as guests on the patio outdoors, well apart. Bring your own libation and food and hang out and enjoy being with one another. Super important for my elderly mom, important for my own sanity.

But do we invite 20 people or 40 to drink and eat and dance etc the way we otherwise would have done? No. And it should be very, very clear that such is illegal, just the way blasting noise is illegal only far more important.

[MDlaxfan76]

When all else fails, whine about Obama. Both sides...that said, the article details the press attacks and negative hyperbole about Obama's handling of the Ebola threat. BTW, apparently Susan Rice was responsible for the idea and execution/management of sending US military to Africa to fight the virus there, building hospitals etc. Huge success.

It's noon eastern, most states have not yet submitted death #'s but Florida already has 256, another new record even if that's all to be added today. 4 days in a row of new highs.

When do we recognize that ALL states need to mandate masks in public, no bars etc to get this under control and down into the infection #'s at which test, trace, isolate can actually work?

Tracing doesn't work and we are at a national peak today; other than that, good post.

Here is a linked chart from Emory in Atlanta; admissions declining rapidly. This is happening elsewhere.

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status ... 96609?s=20

Back to work!!!!!

Tracing DOES work, but not when the virus is out of control with an R above 1.

Have to get the # of infections down to the point that our testing capacity (which has been ramped up, though not nearly enough relative to infections) can get answers within hours, worst a day, and with also very low positivity rate (meaning we're testing all people who have had suspected contact or who are going to have contact with those most vulnerable).

Need to have enough contact tracers to handle the # of actual infections. And the only way that's going to be truly feasible is by getting the infections down first.

We need a national, no BS mandate on masks and indoor crowds, no bars, house parties, etc. It's absolutely crazy this is still being resisted by so many.

Can we otherwise 'work' and some 'play'?
Sure, but wear a damn mask!!

i think you mean a good mask.

that's a lot of stuff to come together!! my hope on improved logistics is somehow we can get test results back without a lag. i'm not sure whether tracing can be executed and whether tests can be pumped out any faster. personally, i think the positivity rate is fungible upon circumstances, but hey... i'm a rank amateur like everyone else.

good luck with the national, or even democrat state, mandate on house parties.

Sure, a good mask is better than something flimsy, but any mask is better than no mask.
Help with the supply and cost of good masks, but don't discourage people from at least trying to do something rather than nothing.

Yeah, tough to enforce as Joe points out, but we DO need to be VERY clear about it.
Social compliance is always hard in America, but it's all a matter of tipping points.
And that means cohesive, clear leadership at all levels, beginning at the very top, non-partisan, strictly public health driven.

Americans Have and Would respond to calls to sacrifice altogether.

[foreverlax]

"Cain was among the highest-profile public figures in the United States to have died from Covid-19. Less than two weeks before receiving his diagnosis, Cain attended Trump's campaign rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, which had been staged despite concerns about mass gatherings during the pandemic."

it says he contracted the virus.
it says he attended the rally.
these are things we already know.
where does it say he cotracted the viruas at the rally?

He contracted the virus while social distancing and wearing a mask.

"I can't help but wonder if by keeping a mask on and keeping it in place, that if I might have put some germs or some of the virus onto the mask and breathed it in," Gohmert said. He added that he has been wearing a mask more during the past two weeks than he has in the past three or four months.

"I can't help but think that if I hadn't been wearing a mask so much in the last 10 days or so, I really wonder if I would have gotten it," Gohmert added. "You know, moving the mask around, getting it just right, we're bound to put some virus on the mask that I sucked in. That's most likely what happened."

Try bleach..

[Typical Lax Dad]

"Cain was among the highest-profile public figures in the United States to have died from Covid-19. Less than two weeks before receiving his diagnosis, Cain attended Trump's campaign rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, which had been staged despite concerns about mass gatherings during the pandemic."

it says he contracted the virus.
it says he attended the rally.
these are things we already know.
where does it say he cotracted the viruas at the rally?

He contracted the virus while social distancing and wearing a mask.

"I can't help but wonder if by keeping a mask on and keeping it in place, that if I might have put some germs or some of the virus onto the mask and breathed it in," Gohmert said. He added that he has been wearing a mask more during the past two weeks than he has in the past three or four months.

"I can't help but think that if I hadn't been wearing a mask so much in the last 10 days or so, I really wonder if I would have gotten it," Gohmert added. "You know, moving the mask around, getting it just right, we're bound to put some virus on the mask that I sucked in. That's most likely what happened."

Try bleach..

Masks cause Coronavirus......

[jhu72]

"Cain was among the highest-profile public figures in the United States to have died from Covid-19. Less than two weeks before receiving his diagnosis, Cain attended Trump's campaign rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, which had been staged despite concerns about mass gatherings during the pandemic."

it says he contracted the virus.
it says he attended the rally.
these are things we already know.
where does it say he cotracted the viruas at the rally?

He contracted the virus while social distancing and wearing a mask.

"I can't help but wonder if by keeping a mask on and keeping it in place, that if I might have put some germs or some of the virus onto the mask and breathed it in," Gohmert said. He added that he has been wearing a mask more during the past two weeks than he has in the past three or four months.

"I can't help but think that if I hadn't been wearing a mask so much in the last 10 days or so, I really wonder if I would have gotten it," Gohmert added. "You know, moving the mask around, getting it just right, we're bound to put some virus on the mask that I sucked in. That's most likely what happened."

Try bleach..

… mask technology is too difficult for Trumpnista to master. IT'S HARD!

[wgdsr]

When all else fails, whine about Obama. Both sides...that said, the article details the press attacks and negative hyperbole about Obama's handling of the Ebola threat. BTW, apparently Susan Rice was responsible for the idea and execution/management of sending US military to Africa to fight the virus there, building hospitals etc. Huge success.

It's noon eastern, most states have not yet submitted death #'s but Florida already has 256, another new record even if that's all to be added today. 4 days in a row of new highs.

When do we recognize that ALL states need to mandate masks in public, no bars etc to get this under control and down into the infection #'s at which test, trace, isolate can actually work?

Tracing doesn't work and we are at a national peak today; other than that, good post.

Here is a linked chart from Emory in Atlanta; admissions declining rapidly. This is happening elsewhere.

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status ... 96609?s=20

Back to work!!!!!

Tracing DOES work, but not when the virus is out of control with an R above 1.

Have to get the # of infections down to the point that our testing capacity (which has been ramped up, though not nearly enough relative to infections) can get answers within hours, worst a day, and with also very low positivity rate (meaning we're testing all people who have had suspected contact or who are going to have contact with those most vulnerable).

Need to have enough contact tracers to handle the # of actual infections. And the only way that's going to be truly feasible is by getting the infections down first.

We need a national, no BS mandate on masks and indoor crowds, no bars, house parties, etc. It's absolutely crazy this is still being resisted by so many.

Can we otherwise 'work' and some 'play'?
Sure, but wear a damn mask!!

You can't make a national mandate on house parties. These are people''s private residences, there is zero way to prevent people for getting together its human nature. The other stuff, yea that may be feasible. You also cant make a blanket "No Bars", its the same thing these restaurants/bars are businesses that have a right to be open provided they have the protocols in place. Ohio tried to get all Restaurants/Bars to close at 10PM, Bars/Restaurants sued, went to Ohio Supreme Court and sided with Bars/Restaurants for now pending the case being heard. The bars/restaurants that do not follow protocol are faced with threat of suspension/fines. Those suggestions all sound fine on paper, bu there are real consequences that come from them. Its worked in NY, I've seen it first hand. You can have fun responsibly and follow the rules!

Go Twins,
JoeMauer89

Definitely there are challenges, but yes, we can and should close down house parties and bars.
It's a national emergency.

We do NOT have a right to infect each other. The "protocols" need to be 100% masks in any public setting (that includes offices) and maintenance of 6ft distancing, no crowded areas inside, period. And that clearly includes nearly any bar, though it's theoretically possible to enforce social distancing, masks, etc in an outdoor setting...but the #'s of people would have be very small in order to maintain the distancing aspect. Just not really practical.

But yes, we also need to deal with the economic consequences of these actions.

But we need to get the # of infections way, way down and test, trace, isolate in order to allow the other things we really do need to do to not get overwhelmed by infections out of control.

We're playing for time for therapies and vaccine.

BTW, this does not mean no social interaction, including in-person. We've been making sure that we have regular such with friends, typically one couple, max two couples at a time, as guests on the patio outdoors, well apart. Bring your own libation and food and hang out and enjoy being with one another. Super important for my elderly mom, important for my own sanity.

But do we invite 20 people or 40 to drink and eat and dance etc the way we otherwise would have done? No. And it should be very, very clear that such is illegal, just the way blasting noise is illegal only far more important.

so i have this right... all restaurants indoor and outdoor are closed except takeout?

and everyone in an office needs to wear a mask at all times?

and you get to have the number of people you want to have over, but everyone needs to go by the max number that you allow at your place with outside friends... bc it's good for your sanity?

those are what? laws?

[wgdsr]

Sure, a good mask is better than something flimsy, but any mask is better than no mask.
Help with the supply and cost of good masks, but don't discourage people from at least trying to do something rather than nothing.

you might be the guy i've been looking for.

i've asked 4 or 5 times if anyone had seen as i hadn't...
the vast majority of masks i've seen are single ply (and some loose bandana-types). like over 90% without close inspection. but say the vast majority.

where is any research that says something flimsy helps?

[MDlaxfan76]

When all else fails, whine about Obama. Both sides...that said, the article details the press attacks and negative hyperbole about Obama's handling of the Ebola threat. BTW, apparently Susan Rice was responsible for the idea and execution/management of sending US military to Africa to fight the virus there, building hospitals etc. Huge success.

It's noon eastern, most states have not yet submitted death #'s but Florida already has 256, another new record even if that's all to be added today. 4 days in a row of new highs.

When do we recognize that ALL states need to mandate masks in public, no bars etc to get this under control and down into the infection #'s at which test, trace, isolate can actually work?

Tracing doesn't work and we are at a national peak today; other than that, good post.

Here is a linked chart from Emory in Atlanta; admissions declining rapidly. This is happening elsewhere.

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status ... 96609?s=20

Back to work!!!!!

Tracing DOES work, but not when the virus is out of control with an R above 1.

Have to get the # of infections down to the point that our testing capacity (which has been ramped up, though not nearly enough relative to infections) can get answers within hours, worst a day, and with also very low positivity rate (meaning we're testing all people who have had suspected contact or who are going to have contact with those most vulnerable).

Need to have enough contact tracers to handle the # of actual infections. And the only way that's going to be truly feasible is by getting the infections down first.

We need a national, no BS mandate on masks and indoor crowds, no bars, house parties, etc. It's absolutely crazy this is still being resisted by so many.

Can we otherwise 'work' and some 'play'?
Sure, but wear a damn mask!!

You can't make a national mandate on house parties. These are people''s private residences, there is zero way to prevent people for getting together its human nature. The other stuff, yea that may be feasible. You also cant make a blanket "No Bars", its the same thing these restaurants/bars are businesses that have a right to be open provided they have the protocols in place. Ohio tried to get all Restaurants/Bars to close at 10PM, Bars/Restaurants sued, went to Ohio Supreme Court and sided with Bars/Restaurants for now pending the case being heard. The bars/restaurants that do not follow protocol are faced with threat of suspension/fines. Those suggestions all sound fine on paper, bu there are real consequences that come from them. Its worked in NY, I've seen it first hand. You can have fun responsibly and follow the rules!

Go Twins,
JoeMauer89

Definitely there are challenges, but yes, we can and should close down house parties and bars.
It's a national emergency.

We do NOT have a right to infect each other. The "protocols" need to be 100% masks in any public setting (that includes offices) and maintenance of 6ft distancing, no crowded areas inside, period. And that clearly includes nearly any bar, though it's theoretically possible to enforce social distancing, masks, etc in an outdoor setting...but the #'s of people would have be very small in order to maintain the distancing aspect. Just not really practical.

But yes, we also need to deal with the economic consequences of these actions.

But we need to get the # of infections way, way down and test, trace, isolate in order to allow the other things we really do need to do to not get overwhelmed by infections out of control.

We're playing for time for therapies and vaccine.

BTW, this does not mean no social interaction, including in-person. We've been making sure that we have regular such with friends, typically one couple, max two couples at a time, as guests on the patio outdoors, well apart. Bring your own libation and food and hang out and enjoy being with one another. Super important for my elderly mom, important for my own sanity.

But do we invite 20 people or 40 to drink and eat and dance etc the way we otherwise would have done? No. And it should be very, very clear that such is illegal, just the way blasting noise is illegal only far more important.

so i have this right... all restaurants indoor and outdoor are closed except takeout?

and everyone in an office needs to wear a mask at all times?

and you get to have the number of people you want to have over, but everyone needs to go by the max number that you allow at your place with outside friends... bc it's good for your sanity?

those are what? laws?

You're being a bit hyperbolic. For effect, I know. Testing the boundaries of the argument.

Yes, no indoor dining or bars, outdoors it needs to be very spread out, seated and controlled, and need to wear a mask unless eating or drinking at that moment. No mixing beyond bubble unless well apart. Does this mean solely takeout? In most cases, yes, but if really well enforced, could have some seated outside.

People will eat and drink without the normal settings, we won't starve. But this does mean the restaurants and bars need survival support economically.

Yes, wear a mask in an office unless everyone is way apart and there's great ventilation...easier to just say that everyone should keep on the mask when others are present. I know this seems extreme, but it really isn't. It's exactly what's been happening in China. It works.

I don't know what the max gathering necessarily should be, but I don't see anything over 10 total being remotely manageable. Add alcohol?

We pulled that off once for my sister's anniversary, inviting a few of their friends to join us in a surprise on the patio...but everyone stayed way apart, we'd arranged for a couple to come and play some music (supporting an arts charity), and it was a very nice surprise. But this was a bunch of 50-60 yr old somethings who knew the drill coming in. Respected the distance. and we kept it to 2 hours and people left.

My mom started out trying to have 6-8 friends, and I couldn't control their behaviors. Way too much getting too close, couldn't hear each other, my mother and others passing food...argghhh. I convinced her to cut it back in # and just do it more frequently in small groups...much more manageable. Some of these folks going back to senior living centers afterwards...gotta be super careful IMO.

Yes, you can pull off some social life, but it's just the reality that large groups exponentially increase the probability of spread. So, no large groups.

[wgdsr]

crazy times with mdlax laws.

sounds like we need more police.

i am buying house party stock if bars and restaurants are closed everywhere.