NY and MA tournaments

[laxfan77]

Looks like lacrosse is in part 4 of phase 3 COVID opening. Which pretty much means not this summer,

[Superlite2]

MA is def no games or tournaments. Maybe some of these can move to other venues but that will be very tough. Legacy High School tournament could be one....Very sad for all of these kids to lose spring and now summer...big picture

[Reddogg]

Much of New York is in Phase 4 of re-opening.

https://forward.ny.gov/

However, Cuomo has not officially authorized lacrosse (contact sports) or gatherings of more than 50 people, as far as I know. The re-opening plan continues to be a moving target and he has recently required quarantine requirements to travelers from certain other states. Not looking good but there is still hope.

[richlax5]

I can only speak for NY when I say that it doesn't look good for any tournaments/games. Non contact lacrosse has been approved meaning everything must be social distanced and two players can not occupy the same space at any time. However, baseball can be played with no such field rules, such as batter-catcher or base runners and fielders and field hockey can play games. While all are different games the same element of occupying the same space for a period of time is there.

One caveat I can add is that public school districts are in a holding pattern when it comes to field use. Many have been advised to limit field use if not lock them entirely to avoid any type of liability.

[TotoketLax]

In CT, it is full GO mode. HS and Middle school club teams are practicing with full contact now. While they want players spaced out on sidelines, the practicing and scrimmaging are no different from normal times. Playdays and full tournaments are being held in CT in the coming week with normal full contact rules. NY teams are participating in these too. This is NOT non-contact lacrosse.

[laxfan77]

So a couple thousand kids and parents leave their states to go play lacrosse elsewhere every week, rather than stay home and play. What have they accomplished, except for hurting families and the local economy.

[MA Lax Fan]

In Mass we are in Phase 3 part 2 section 1b. It is all based on science so please don’t ask any details.

[Can Opener]

NH is allowing full contact lacrosse. We are seeing Massachusetts tournaments moving north of the border.

[smoova]

NH is allowing full contact lacrosse. We are seeing Massachusetts tournaments moving north of the border.

And into NJ.

[kramerica.inc]

We have a few super spreader events planned for this weekend in Maryland.
Enjoy lax for the next two weeks!

[DeepPocket]

NYSPHSAA voted to delay all fall sports starting until at least September 21st AND cancel the Fall championships.

Not looking good for anything in New York for the foreseeable, unfortunately.

[richlax5]

For those wondering why NYS does not want teams traveling too far for tournaments.
https://poststar.com/news/local/warren- ... f048c.html

[Reddogg]

The article is full of misinformation and misrepresents the status of NY rules.

The child who tested positive may not have even got the virus in NJ but rather from a sick family member in NY. NJ is in no worse of a situation than NY and is not on the quarantine list. NY cannot prevent you from travelling to NJ and NY laws do not govern whether playing lax in NJ is legal.

Tournaments are happening in NJ, PA, Maryland, CT, NH without any spike on cases. There is no evidence to suggest that outdoor sports lead to an increased spread of the virus. The article and the response to it by some online is all about fear and loathing.

Transmission is down in the NY due to the tremendous spread early on and likely to the seasonality of coronaviruses, not the arbitrary and after the fact policies of NY. All the horses left the barn and now we are locking the door and saying no horses have gotten out. It's all political in NY at this point. Schools, sports, travel, masks, social distancing are no longer about the virus and cannot be discussed. Listen to your leader or suffer the consequences.

[SidelineHorn]

To be fair a BIG uptick in games being played in NH started about two weeks ago. To say there is no spread isn't true. You might eventually be right...but everything with this virus has a lag time. That's why it's been so hard to control. There are programs in MA that have had kids test positive for the virus and their teammates had to be tested and quarantine.

Fingers crossed the low numbers in New England allow for the summer to be continued to play without issues. Hearing from college coaches that the fall is going to be WILD. Buckle UP!

[Reddogg]

To be fair a BIG uptick in games being played in NH started about two weeks ago. To say there is no spread isn't true. You might eventually be right...but everything with this virus has a lag time. That's why it's been so hard to control. There are programs in MA that have had kids test positive for the virus and their teammates had to be tested and quarantine.

Fingers crossed the low numbers in New England allow for the summer to be continued to play without issues. Hearing from college coaches that the fall is going to be WILD. Buckle UP!

Yes, there is a lag of a few days typically from exposure to symptoms, if any, but the 7 day average for new cases in NH was 21 on July 5 and it is 21 on July 19 and this includes post 4th of July festivities - so no spike yet (and the real issue is hospitalizations not cases).

As for transmission, I am not aware of any evidence showing that outdoor sports significantly contribute to transmission. Even if kids and young adults do get it, there is as a rule, no major problems. Moreover, I also am not aware of any difference between lacrosse, soccer and field hockey which are all allowed in NY. NY rules are arbitrary and ridiculous, especiallt when the virus has dissapated like it has (after devastating the elderly due in part to assanine policies with nursing homes).

The article sensationalizes one case to shame people and drive fear. The real issue on the case in the article was that the athlete apparently had symptoms before travelling, a really bad idea but not the point of the article.

There may be cases but the key point is that there is no widespread problem in the NE from these new cases or from travel to similarly situated areas. 1000 new cases in NY per day but no exponential rise despite protests ,open beaches, ooen restaurants, until recently bars, offices and public transportation. Why? Clearly, there is something different in the NE (NH and VT and Maine may have an issue and need to be monitored,as they have had much less of a problem) and the South. Why? The answer is not lockdown but is due to the seasonality of viruses and natural resistance as spread reaches 20 percent of the population. This is true all over the world and will be true in FLA very soon and Texas. Lockdown was never supposed to stop transmission, only flatten the curve. Lockdown also ignores the other side of the ledger - economic ruin, mental health problems and health crisis for those who fail to get care.

It is time to stop the madness, especially in a large part of the northeast that has already been devastated. Open Schools (definitely an essential service ), open the economy, live life and play sports especially outdoors, and quarantine the sick and unhealthy.

My fingers are certainly crossed but the information from Europe is really encouraging. I hope you are right about the fall but I am concerned that fear will lead to no fall sports, including lax.

[JBFortunato]

To be fair a BIG uptick in games being played in NH started about two weeks ago. To say there is no spread isn't true. You might eventually be right...but everything with this virus has a lag time. That's why it's been so hard to control. There are programs in MA that have had kids test positive for the virus and their teammates had to be tested and quarantine.

Fingers crossed the low numbers in New England allow for the summer to be continued to play without issues. Hearing from college coaches that the fall is going to be WILD. Buckle UP!

Yes, there is a lag of a few days typically from exposure to symptoms, if any, but the 7 day average for new cases in NH was 21 on July 5 and it is 21 on July 19 and this includes post 4th of July festivities - so no spike yet (and the real issue is hospitalizations not cases).

As for transmission, I am not aware of any evidence showing that outdoor sports significantly contribute to transmission. Even if kids and young adults do get it, there is as a rule, no major problems. Moreover, I also am not aware of any difference between lacrosse, soccer and field hockey which are all allowed in NY. NY rules are arbitrary and ridiculous, especiallt when the virus has dissapated like it has (after devastating the elderly due in part to assanine policies with nursing homes).

The article sensationalizes one case to shame people and drive fear. The real issue on the case in the article was that the athlete apparently had symptoms before travelling, a really bad idea but not the point of the article.

There may be cases but the key point is that there is no widespread problem in the NE from these new cases or from travel to similarly situated areas. 1000 new cases in NY per day but no exponential rise despite protests ,open beaches, ooen restaurants, until recently bars, offices and public transportation. Why? Clearly, there is something different in the NE (NH and VT and Maine may have an issue and need to be monitored,as they have had much less of a problem) and the South. Why? The answer is not lockdown but is due to the seasonality of viruses and natural resistance as spread reaches 20 percent of the population. This is true all over the world and will be true in FLA very soon and Texas. Lockdown was never supposed to stop transmission, only flatten the curve. Lockdown also ignores the other side of the ledger - economic ruin, mental health problems and health crisis for those who fail to get care.

It is time to stop the madness, especially in a large part of the northeast that has already been devastated. Open Schools (definitely an essential service ), open the economy, live life and play sports especially outdoors, and quarantine the sick and unhealthy.

My fingers are certainly crossed but the information from Europe is really encouraging. I hope you are right about the fall but I am concerned that fear will lead to no fall sports, including lax.

Couldn't agree more, great post.

[richlax5]

I agree what I posted is incomplete at best but NY is trying to contact trace which is one of the recommended ways to reopen responsibly but is not or can not be done in some states due to the lack of preparation for spread and is why the information was released to media. I have first hand knowledge that when contact tracing is difficult due to potentially large numbers on exposed NY State will release information like this to inform as many as possible.

Also, "Seasonality" does not apply to this virus as we see now because warm states are now on the rise. No, warm weather and sunshine are not killing or even slowing transmission. Outdoor transmission is possible and since Memorial day numerous states have been able to attribute increased positive tests due to large outdoor gatherings without distancing rule and masks, beaches reopening, grad parties and community parties, as centers for transmission and tournaments are just that. I have read and reviewed tournament expectations of masks and distancing but who is enforcing? If a tournament is asking athletes and parents to sign a CoVid liability waiver then they have been advised by insurers to do so because there is an increased risk and the insurance company does not want to pay, but I do not believe these waivers will cover the tournaments and insurers as the limited liability agreement on a ticket to a professional event does not shield the venue, team or promoter.

This is one of the issue schools must consider before opening, as well, because insurers worry solely about their bottom line. If there is any increased risk for them to have to pay out the insurer notifies the district and districts either decide not to hold event or pay a higher premium. This can simply be opening their doors to outside groups or holding events with increased risk. Please remember that research in school aged, 2-24, is largely incomplete because many were pulled from school and events, maybe prematurely but hindsight is 20-20. New research suggests that those 10 years and older can spread as adults can which may give insurers hesitation to have schools reopen without conditions, which may include no sports. Insurance is one of the reasons for the decline in football. Insurers drove up premium prices when the CTE discussion happened and at the same time some parents removed their children from football.

As for Europe and what they did. Everything was shut down and borders closed for a few months to let virus run its course and now automatic quarantine if positive, social distancing, ban on large gathering events, masks and extreme contact tracing in each country. Can we say the same for our states? How about the entire country?
(https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-europe ... 1595240731)

People there realized it is a collective we not about me. The opposite is true for the majority of the US. The northeast has tried to stand together from the onset and see it's recent numbers, but also expectations of citizens, similar to Europe.

As a coach and parent I want things as close to normal but as long as people take a myopic approach we are bound to repeat this process again and I worry that next Spring will be worse than this past Spring and no Spring sports again thus taking away two seasons from our athletes. If we keep pushing for now then later could be worse without any known treatment options or a tried and true vaccine, beyond experimental.

[Reddogg]

I agree what I posted is incomplete at best but NY is trying to contact trace which is one of the recommended ways to reopen responsibly but is not or can not be done in some states due to the lack of preparation for spread and is why the information was released to media. I have first hand knowledge that when contact tracing is difficult due to potentially large numbers on exposed NY State will release information like this to inform as many as possible.

Also, "Seasonality" does not apply to this virus as we see now because warm states are now on the rise. No, warm weather and sunshine are not killing or even slowing transmission. Outdoor transmission is possible and since Memorial day numerous states have been able to attribute increased positive tests due to large outdoor gatherings without distancing rule and masks, beaches reopening, grad parties and community parties, as centers for transmission and tournaments are just that. I have read and reviewed tournament expectations of masks and distancing but who is enforcing? If a tournament is asking athletes and parents to sign a CoVid liability waiver then they have been advised by insurers to do so because there is an increased risk and the insurance company does not want to pay, but I do not believe these waivers will cover the tournaments and insurers as the limited liability agreement on a ticket to a professional event does not shield the venue, team or promoter.

This is one of the issue schools must consider before opening, as well, because insurers worry solely about their bottom line. If there is any increased risk for them to have to pay out the insurer notifies the district and districts either decide not to hold event or pay a higher premium. This can simply be opening their doors to outside groups or holding events with increased risk. Please remember that research in school aged, 2-24, is largely incomplete because many were pulled from school and events, maybe prematurely but hindsight is 20-20. New research suggests that those 10 years and older can spread as adults can which may give insurers hesitation to have schools reopen without conditions, which may include no sports. Insurance is one of the reasons for the decline in football. Insurers drove up premium prices when the CTE discussion happened and at the same time some parents removed their children from football.

As for Europe and what they did. Everything was shut down and borders closed for a few months to let virus run its course and now automatic quarantine if positive, social distancing, ban on large gathering events, masks and extreme contact tracing in each country. Can we say the same for our states? How about the entire country?
(https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-europe ... 1595240731)

People there realized it is a collective we not about me. The opposite is true for the majority of the US. The northeast has tried to stand together from the onset and see it's recent numbers, but also expectations of citizens, similar to Europe.

As a coach and parent I want things as close to normal but as long as people take a myopic approach we are bound to repeat this process again and I worry that next Spring will be worse than this past Spring and no Spring sports again thus taking away two seasons from our athletes. If we keep pushing for now then later could be worse without any known treatment options or a tried and true vaccine, beyond experimental.

Thanks for the post and discussion. The insurance issue is certainly a problem. However, at least for kids, they are more likely to die from driving to the event than from participating in it or from getting struck by lightning. There is just a lack of understanding of risk as it applies to Covid. Less than 200 people under age 25 have died from COVID and the vast majority of those were very unhealthy.

As for seasonality, there certainly appears to be seasonality. The curve of the virus is the same in the northern hemisphere, just like other viruses. There is growing evidence that this may be in part to lack of Vitamin D. Viruses act differently near the equator and follow a different seasonal pattern. In both cases, however, transmission appears to drastically drop when spread closes in on 20%. A growing body of evidence indicates that T-cells response has a great deal to do with it. While novel, the immune system recognizes the virus and fights it off without developing antibodies. If this is correct, the impact of any second wave will not be great. Yes, it will come back but not be a "second wave" to be afraid of. Protect those at risk, quarantine if sick and wear a mask indoors when the virus is particularly prevalent.

As for transmission by kids, the evidence is that younger kids are not vectors of transmission. For example,
https://www.uvm.edu/uvmnews/news/kids-r ... op-journal and https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/pub ... lchildren/

While not as definitive, the same appears to be the case for teenagers and young adults. For example,
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic ... in-schools

More importantly, keeping young and healthy kids and teenagers from school or sports is not keeping them safe. The cost of not going to school or exercising in kids is great - medically, emotionally and academically. This is a ticking time bomb that is being overlooked due to the failure to appreciate the real risks, or lack thereof, of Covid to children.

As for Europe, while much maligned, Sweden suggests that lockdown was not the reason the virus disappeared across Europe. There are many articles showing that closing society may be worse than the vid. While it's not popular, the data shows that Covid has had a similar impact as a bad flu season (excess deaths are higher but not greatly so). It is worse for the elderly but thankfully not as bad for kids. Our response should take this into account and not be driven by the fear and panic.

Again, thanks for the discussion.

[richlax5]

First off being dismissive is not appreciated because everybody thought the southern states were immune because as the cases flared up in the northeast the south had minimal cases and encourage travel and low and behold peak summer where Vitamin D is in abundance some states are seeing 12,000 to 15,000 new cases daily.

As for deaths, it is true that older individuals have the highest death rate the impact on 30 and younger is inconclusive because numbers are skewed due to quarantines and schools dismissing early however recent information suggest a 10 to 19 year olds can spread as adults which is the age group we are talking about which then puts parental age groups at risk.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... s.amp.html

Thinking deaths are the only impact is short sighted given some of the recent news of neurological issues associated with CoVid not to mention potential impacts to unborn children.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes ... ction/amp/

As for Sweden I am not sure I want to be compared to them. They tried for immunity and it backfired.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/sweden ... -covid-19/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 472100002/

I am not disagreeing that a long term quarantine is not the answer but current news suggests a true lockdown of 4 to 6 weeks and then interventions like masks, avoiding large gatherings and social distancing can minimize spread and impact and this would be true for all viruses but not necessary for those with vaccines.

[richlax5]

First off being dismissive is not appreciated because everybody thought the southern states were immune because as the cases flared up in the northeast the south had minimal cases and encourage travel and low and behold peak summer where Vitamin D is in abundance some states are seeing 12,000 to 15,000 new cases daily.

As for deaths, it is true that older individuals have the highest death rate the impact on 30 and younger is inconclusive because numbers are skewed due to quarantines and schools dismissing early however recent information suggest a 10 to 19 year olds can spread as adults which is the age group we are talking about which then puts parental age groups at risk.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... s.amp.html

Thinking deaths are the only impact is short sighted given some of the recent news of neurological issues associated with CoVid not to mention potential impacts to unborn children.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes ... ction/amp/

As for Sweden I am not sure I want to be compared to them. They tried for immunity and it backfired.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/sweden ... -covid-19/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 472100002/

I am not disagreeing that a long term quarantine is not the answer but current news suggests a true lockdown of 4 to 6 weeks and then interventions like masks, avoiding large gatherings and social distancing can minimize spread and impact and this would be true for all viruses but not necessary for those with vaccines.