How many schools will drop lacrosse?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Have you polled college students and professors?

This school is going under?

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ucf-3954

I don't out much stock in "rankings". My point is that many people see a future that has a small fraction of the universities we have now. Lots of schools could go the way of the buggy whip, but of course schools that fill a wanted niche will survive. I could even envision a higher ed landscape that has some "lesser" schools acting as satellite campuses for "brand" school - you know something like the "Podunk Town Campus of Harvard".

This is all theoretical, obviously. But imho, recent events have increased the chance that it happens and/or moved forward the date on which it begins to happen.

A shakeout has been underway. A small fraction is what % will survive? 75% of colleges and universities are going away?

https://www.educationdive.com/news/how- ... 16/539379/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelhor ... ecade/amp/


https://www.nacubo.org/Press-Releases/2 ... rn-in-FY19

Try to get your hands on a nacubo annual survey.

to get your hands on

[steel_hop]

Have you polled college students and professors?

This school is going under?

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ucf-3954

I don't out much stock in "rankings". My point is that many people see a future that has a small fraction of the universities we have now. Lots of schools could go the way of the buggy whip, but of course schools that fill a wanted niche will survive. I could even envision a higher ed landscape that has some "lesser" schools acting as satellite campuses for "brand" school - you know something like the "Podunk Town Campus of Harvard".

This is all theoretical, obviously. But imho, recent events have increased the chance that it happens and/or moved forward the date on which it begins to happen.

A shakeout has been underway. A small fraction is what % will survive? 75% of colleges and universities are going away?

https://www.educationdive.com/news/how- ... 16/539379/

75% is way too high. I'd go 65/35 survive to eventually disappear. And it won't all be in the next year but the next decade.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Have you polled college students and professors?

This school is going under?

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ucf-3954

I don't out much stock in "rankings". My point is that many people see a future that has a small fraction of the universities we have now. Lots of schools could go the way of the buggy whip, but of course schools that fill a wanted niche will survive. I could even envision a higher ed landscape that has some "lesser" schools acting as satellite campuses for "brand" school - you know something like the "Podunk Town Campus of Harvard".

This is all theoretical, obviously. But imho, recent events have increased the chance that it happens and/or moved forward the date on which it begins to happen.

A shakeout has been underway. A small fraction is what % will survive? 75% of colleges and universities are going away?

https://www.educationdive.com/news/how- ... 16/539379/

75% is way too high. I'd go 65/35 survive to eventually disappear. And it won't all be in the next year but the next decade.

I don’t know many kids that prefer being at home versus in school. College is an expensive endeavor. To keep this on topic, three VPs of finance at NE liberal arts colleges liked a lacrosse program as parents had the ability and willingness to pay and then support the school afterwards. It was an “attractive” demographic. We will see how it goes. I know Richmond dropped soccer in order to add lacrosse. I can see college soccer being more vulnerable. It’s a nomadic culture to begin with.

[Laxxal22]

Not to pick on them but why is High Point so stable? My understanding is they binged on debt to build a stupid over the top campus and haven’t really stayed on projections for endowment growth.

High Point has recruited several of my players. One of my player's father is a professor at American University. He and his son visited the campus and like most people was blown away with how beautiful it was. His son had keen interest in High Point but the dad was skeptical. He did research to see where and how the university was spending their money. His research included trying to email and call several officials at High Point and they refused to answer his questions.
Here is what his research on High Point revealed. The High Point faculty conducts virtually no research. The university's money goes to bricks and mortar. The faculty is not paid as well as comparable universities. He also felt the qualifications of the faculty was substandard. His conclusion is you get the show of going to a beautiful school but you may be paying a price in regard to quality of education.

I went to a college with a country club campus, but it was also rigorous, the students were academically curious, and the diploma carried weight in the working world. Lacrosse or not - I just don't get the mentality of shelling out big bucks to private colleges where the education seems to be a secondary or tertiary priority.

[xxxxxxx]

Furman has 31 players in the portal, the tuition is 50k, and lets assume between partial scholarships and aid the average lacrosse player pays 40k. These 31 players leaving will cost them 1.2 million next year, if another ten leave its 1.6 million. Does a University just assume they can fill those seats with non athletes who will pay full tuition? I am of the belief that none of those students would have attended Furman without lacrosse, maybe the the wait list is very strong and they can easily fill the seats. My point is that dropping a sport doesn't magically make the line item in the budget disappear, there are consequences. I know many D3 schools use lacrosse to drive up attendance and view it as a money maker for the school, with 50+ students paying tuition who would not be there without lacrosse. I put Furman in that category, even if they are giving out 12.5 scholarships, they notoriously had one of the largest rosters in D1. I feel like they used a lot of students for their benefit and quickly turned on them when things got a little tight.

Oh one more thing Furman has a 700 million dollar endowment. This was a short sighted reaction, and they should be ashamed of themselves, if things get much worse in the next 18 months and numbers drop dramatically then fine, but this was wrong.

[steel_hop]

Have you polled college students and professors?

This school is going under?

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ucf-3954

I don't out much stock in "rankings". My point is that many people see a future that has a small fraction of the universities we have now. Lots of schools could go the way of the buggy whip, but of course schools that fill a wanted niche will survive. I could even envision a higher ed landscape that has some "lesser" schools acting as satellite campuses for "brand" school - you know something like the "Podunk Town Campus of Harvard".

This is all theoretical, obviously. But imho, recent events have increased the chance that it happens and/or moved forward the date on which it begins to happen.

A shakeout has been underway. A small fraction is what % will survive? 75% of colleges and universities are going away?

https://www.educationdive.com/news/how- ... 16/539379/

75% is way too high. I'd go 65/35 survive to eventually disappear. And it won't all be in the next year but the next decade.

I don’t know many kids that prefer being at home versus in school. College is an expensive endeavor. To keep this on topic, three VPs of finance at NE liberal arts colleges liked a lacrosse program as parents had the ability and willingness to pay and then support the school afterwards. It was an “attractive” demographic. We will see how it goes. I know Richmond dropped soccer in order to add lacrosse. I can see college soccer being more vulnerable. It’s a nomadic culture to begin with.

Not to be callous, but I agree. I wouldn't call the soccer culture more nomadic but it certainly a less affluent demographic. For soccer all you need is a ball. You can get away without using shin guards or goals. Lacrosse is an expensive sport to play...especially at the youth level.

[RedFromMI]

Furman has 31 players in the portal, the tuition is 50k, and lets assume between partial scholarships and aid the average lacrosse player pays 40k. These 31 players leaving will cost them 1.2 million next year, if another ten leave its 1.6 million. Does a University just assume they can fill those seats with non athletes who will pay full tuition? I am of the belief that none of those students would have attended Furman without lacrosse, maybe the the wait list is very strong and they can easily fill the seats. My point is that dropping a sport doesn't magically make the line item in the budget disappear, there are consequences. I know many D3 schools use lacrosse to drive up attendance and view it as a money maker for the school, with 50+ students paying tuition who would not be there without lacrosse. I put Furman in that category, even if they are giving out 12.5 scholarships, they notoriously had one of the largest rosters in D1. I feel like they used a lot of students for their benefit and quickly turned on them when things got a little tight.

Oh one more thing Furman has a 700 million dollar endowment. This was a short sighted reaction, and they should be ashamed of themselves, if things get much worse in the next 18 months and numbers drop dramatically then fine, but this was wrong.

Endowment shrunk about $100 million recently. Around 2600 students when my daughter was a freshman there (pre lax). Wait list has always been traditionally strong (one of the top academic programs in SC).

I suspect they are expecting a shrinkage in total numbers of students, and are using this as an "opportunity" to deal with it by shedding some major expenses.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Have you polled college students and professors?

This school is going under?

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ucf-3954

I don't out much stock in "rankings". My point is that many people see a future that has a small fraction of the universities we have now. Lots of schools could go the way of the buggy whip, but of course schools that fill a wanted niche will survive. I could even envision a higher ed landscape that has some "lesser" schools acting as satellite campuses for "brand" school - you know something like the "Podunk Town Campus of Harvard".

This is all theoretical, obviously. But imho, recent events have increased the chance that it happens and/or moved forward the date on which it begins to happen.

A shakeout has been underway. A small fraction is what % will survive? 75% of colleges and universities are going away?

https://www.educationdive.com/news/how- ... 16/539379/

75% is way too high. I'd go 65/35 survive to eventually disappear. And it won't all be in the next year but the next decade.

I don’t know many kids that prefer being at home versus in school. College is an expensive endeavor. To keep this on topic, three VPs of finance at NE liberal arts colleges liked a lacrosse program as parents had the ability and willingness to pay and then support the school afterwards. It was an “attractive” demographic. We will see how it goes. I know Richmond dropped soccer in order to add lacrosse. I can see college soccer being more vulnerable. It’s a nomadic culture to begin with.

Not to be callous, but I agree. I wouldn't call the soccer culture more nomadic but it certainly a less affluent demographic. For soccer all you need is a ball. You can get away without using shin guards or goals. Lacrosse is an expensive sport to play...especially at the youth level.

What I meant by nomadic is that the players move from
School to school at a high rate and there isn’t a strong connection between player/parent/ school that you find in lacrosse or even football. A lot of soccer players view college as an extension of their club soccer experience. It’s mind boggling. It’s just a different way of thinking. I think you will attract more families with the capacity and willingness to pay to be on a college lacrosse team versus a college soccer team.

[Matnum PI]

Not lacrosse but still...

Justin Felder (@Justin_FOX5) tweeted at 0:09 PM on Thu, May 21, 2020:
East Carolina cuts men's and women's tennis teams, men's and women's swimming/diving teams. Other budget cuts as well.
(https://twitter.com/Justin_FOX5/status/ ... 33952?s=03)

[Wheels]

I hope my 21 year old self doesn't visit me in my dreams and god strike me down for saying this...

But...

The goose that laid the golden egg is now Gozer the Gozerian...laying waste to all.

Football, for as much as I love it, is killing all of the programs mentioned in this thread (lax, golf, tennis, swimming, soccer).

ADs and universities have gone full escalation of commitment (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7376900052). When in a hole, stop digging. Yet they keep digging.

[DeepPocket]

Not lacrosse but still...

Justin Felder (@Justin_FOX5) tweeted at 0:09 PM on Thu, May 21, 2020:
East Carolina cuts men's and women's tennis teams, men's and women's swimming/diving teams. Other budget cuts as well.
(https://twitter.com/Justin_FOX5/status/ ... 33952?s=03)

Sad for the players and for the alumni / former players. I remember seeing how disappointed my father was when Providence scrapped men’s tennis circa 2001. He said it felt like a part of his history / experience had been erased.

Damn shame, for all victims of this.

[dawn patrol]

This is from about a month ago when Conference Administrators petitioned the NCAA for relief on maintaining 16 teams for BCS schools. Coaches of non revenue sports were concerned enough to formally oppose the request. It's conceivable varsity programs would consist of Men's Football and Basketball with enough Women's opportunities to satisfy Title IX. All other sports would be on a club basis with part time coaches.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/c ... 006781001/

[44WeWantMore]

This is from about a month ago when Conference Administrators petitioned the NCAA for relief on maintaining 16 teams for BCS schools. Coaches of non revenue sports were concerned enough to formally oppose the request. It's conceivable varsity programs would consist of Men's Football and Basketball with enough Women's opportunities to satisfy Title IX. All other sports would be on a club basis with part time coaches.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/c ... 006781001/

No serious Athletic Department can have 16 teams, let alone fewer. Just from memory, I counted 21 teams with almost a quarter of the student body participating in intercollegiate sports (meaning I excluded JV Lax, and tried to estimate what would have been double-counting XC and track, for example) from when I was an undergrad.

[Can Opener]

I hope my 21 year old self doesn't visit me in my dreams and god strike me down for saying this...

But...

The goose that laid the golden egg is now Gozer the Gozerian...laying waste to all.

Football, for as much as I love it, is killing all of the programs mentioned in this thread (lax, golf, tennis, swimming, soccer).

ADs and universities have gone full escalation of commitment (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7376900052). When in a hole, stop digging. Yet they keep digging.

+1
I have American red blood in my veins and love fall afternoons watching football, but that sport is what’s messing up all these economics and gender quotas. Name me a school that regrets dropping football. UVM? BU? Nope.

[PizzaSnake]

A huge flock of black swans is nigh upon us.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/05 ... llege.html

[RedFromMI]

A huge flock of black swans is nigh upon us.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/05 ... llege.html

They have been telling us that for years in reality. But the number of students who can successfully navigate everything online without someone personally there to help motivate them is not a large fraction.

Ya think you can run lax coaching from a computer program?

It may be of an assist but will never replace all of the job.

[dawn patrol]

A huge flock of black swans is nigh upon us.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/05 ... llege.html

And the Big Game will be MIT vs Cal Tech in eSports playing the latest version of DOTA 2 or Fortnight . Youngsters will envy their overclocked supercooled processors , custom controllers and prototype VR goggles.

[ardilla secreta]

A huge flock of black swans is nigh upon us.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/05 ... llege.html

And the Big Game will be MIT vs Cal Tech in eSports playing the latest version of DOTA 2 or Fortnight . Youngsters will envy their overclocked supercooled processors , custom controllers and prototype VR goggles.

Will always remember when Cal Tech and MIT met at the Rose Bowl.

I was at the 1984 Rose Bowl between UCLA and Illinois. After UCLA kicked a FG in the 3rd Q to make it 38-3 in favor of the Bruins, some Cal Tech students hacked the scoreboard to read Cal Tech 38 Illinois 3, then it read Cal Tech 38 MIT 3. Stadium officials could never correct the scoreboard, so they turned it off and kept time on the field. With the unranked Bruins cruising to a 45-9 win over #4 Illini, it was hilarious.

[Ketch]

A huge flock of black swans is nigh upon us.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/05 ... llege.html

And the Big Game will be MIT vs Cal Tech in eSports playing the latest version of DOTA 2 or Fortnight . Youngsters will envy their overclocked supercooled processors , custom controllers and prototype VR goggles.

Will always remember when Cal Tech and MIT met at the Rose Bowl.

I was at the 1984 Rose Bowl between UCLA and Illinois. After UCLA kicked a FG in the 3rd Q to make it 38-3 in favor of the Bruins, some Cal Tech students hacked the scoreboard to read Cal Tech 38 Illinois 3, then it read Cal Tech 38 MIT 3. Stadium officials could never correct the scoreboard, so they turned it off and kept time on the field. With the unranked Bruins cruising to a 45-9 win over #4 Illini, it was hilarious.

Trivia question: Can you still name the two starting quarterbacks in that game, and what was the name of the UCLA running back who ran wild?

[Typical Lax Dad]

A huge flock of black swans is nigh upon us.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/05 ... llege.html

And the Big Game will be MIT vs Cal Tech in eSports playing the latest version of DOTA 2 or Fortnight . Youngsters will envy their overclocked supercooled processors , custom controllers and prototype VR goggles.

Will always remember when Cal Tech and MIT met at the Rose Bowl.

I was at the 1984 Rose Bowl between UCLA and Illinois. After UCLA kicked a FG in the 3rd Q to make it 38-3 in favor of the Bruins, some Cal Tech students hacked the scoreboard to read Cal Tech 38 Illinois 3, then it read Cal Tech 38 MIT 3. Stadium officials could never correct the scoreboard, so they turned it off and kept time on the field. With the unranked Bruins cruising to a 45-9 win over #4 Illini, it was hilarious.

Trivia question: Can you still name the two starting quarterbacks in that game, and what was the name of the UCLA running back who ran wild?

Was it Wendell Tyler?