Our Undeclared Wars

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LandM
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Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by LandM »

MD,
I was part of the MCC crew that was responsible for the TDRS satellite on the Challenger - met every one of them including Onizuka who the base was later named after - I was a lowly LT but had the important job of being the security officer which is how I learned not to be late for anything :D . People during this time thought we could read license plates off cars - nope. There were so many things people thought a satellite could do, nope. I would love to see that spec;

To clarify my point on Iran, the US created allot of issues in the ME and mostly because an admin would change and then you get a new and then we would walk away and then we would get a new one and we would get back involved - we have created our own messes including Iran and the Shah. The Iranians are messing around all over the ME and some of their buddies are having fun in Europe......just poke them in the eyes man - no shots.
Best
tech37
Posts: 4259
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Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by tech37 »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:00 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:20 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:20 am
tech37 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:37 pm
a fan wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:15 pm Obama and our allies got them to stop their nuke program. You act like that's a trifle. A nothing.
:roll: Forget the little Ds and Rs schtick for once and consider reality.

What proof do you have to show Iran stopped their nuke program under JCPOA? And, how you can possibly trust the Mullahs is beyond me.

They have continued their long range ballistic missile development and not allowed inspectors into military sites. Those are the reasons Trump's admin broke from JCPOA and rightly so.

So where's the proof a fan since you and others are so certain Iran complied under JCPOA? Hint: You're kidding yourselves... :roll:

Total BS as usual. :lol: This coming from the guy who loses sleep for fear that Trump is becoming a fascist, authoritarian dictator, and yet is quick to support the real life religio-fascists ruling Iran...talk about BS!

US space based radiation monitoring says there is no change in the military facilities. We have their detailed radiation profiles concurrent with our inspection of the facilities just prior to deal signing. We have seen no new unexplained construction at these sites. On the ground UN monitors are telling you the sites they are inspecting are in compliance and they have access to the space based measurements as well, so they have a complete picture of what is going on. Show us where it says that spaced-based instruments can detect radiation in underground facilities in Iran.


Missiles were never part of the agreement. :roll: No *hit... That's why I've been saying the deal was flawed from the start. JCPOA was a temporary attempt to stop Iran from getting the bomb, yet allowed for the bomb delivery system to be developed...just brilliant! And, the regime has broken and continues to break UN Resolutions against the development of ballistic missiles but of course you're okie dokie with that since they're your BFFs (Best Fascist Friends). :lol: You want to limit the missiles - negotiate a separate deal, they were never on the table. :roll: Again, no *hit...and silly comment, the Iran regime will not negotiate with the Trump admin.

Of course with the nuclear deal in place and the passage of time you have a solid foundation to build on based in trust in both directions to negotiate a missile agreement. Kiss that good bye.

The deal was signed not because we trust the mullahs, it was signed because we trust our technology and our people! Hang it up 72...you've been wrong about so much these past couple years it's not even funny. ;)
tech37, it's perfectly reasonable to critique the JCPOA (except that it indeed prevent Iran from getting a bomb on the timetable everyone expected, including the expectations of our allies like Israel) as not addressing every issue we have with Iran. It definitely didn't address all issues.

But, you're right, there's no way Iran negotiates with the Trump administration, because they know with 100% certainty that the Trump crew will not keep their word, and will accept nothing less than regime change. Oh I absolutely disagree. Do not conflate Bolton with Trump. Rightly or wrongly, if the mullahs come back to the table, Trump will treat them just as he does Kim. I heard a news clip yesterday where Trump said, "make Iran great again"... silly but I believe he means that, but only if they give up their nuke and terrorism-funding ambitions and honorably negotiate. Don't hold your breath. They might well have negotiated with an Administration that offered carrots and consistency, as well as respect, but the Trump folks never attempted that approach. It was all about the politics of criticizing the Obama deal.

I don't see '72 or anyone else on here cheerleading for the current Iranian system of government. We can walk and chew gum as recognizing that they are a dangerous regime, an adversary, indeed a part Bush's 'axis of evil', while also decrying the rise of authoritarianism under Trump. No one on here's 'okie dokie' with the Iranians. We just think that Trump and his team are committing massive international malpractice. The USA is 'our team', we want better.

BTW, show us where we don't have that technology. We do.
It's definitely not the only way we monitor Iran though.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:28 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:00 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:20 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:20 am
tech37 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:37 pm
a fan wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:15 pm Obama and our allies got them to stop their nuke program. You act like that's a trifle. A nothing.
:roll: Forget the little Ds and Rs schtick for once and consider reality.

What proof do you have to show Iran stopped their nuke program under JCPOA? And, how you can possibly trust the Mullahs is beyond me.

They have continued their long range ballistic missile development and not allowed inspectors into military sites. Those are the reasons Trump's admin broke from JCPOA and rightly so.

So where's the proof a fan since you and others are so certain Iran complied under JCPOA? Hint: You're kidding yourselves... :roll:

Total BS as usual. :lol: This coming from the guy who loses sleep for fear that Trump is becoming a fascist, authoritarian dictator, and yet is quick to support the real life religio-fascists ruling Iran...talk about BS!

US space based radiation monitoring says there is no change in the military facilities. We have their detailed radiation profiles concurrent with our inspection of the facilities just prior to deal signing. We have seen no new unexplained construction at these sites. On the ground UN monitors are telling you the sites they are inspecting are in compliance and they have access to the space based measurements as well, so they have a complete picture of what is going on. Show us where it says that spaced-based instruments can detect radiation in underground facilities in Iran.


Missiles were never part of the agreement. :roll: No *hit... That's why I've been saying the deal was flawed from the start. JCPOA was a temporary attempt to stop Iran from getting the bomb, yet allowed for the bomb delivery system to be developed...just brilliant! And, the regime has broken and continues to break UN Resolutions against the development of ballistic missiles but of course you're okie dokie with that since they're your BFFs (Best Fascist Friends). :lol: You want to limit the missiles - negotiate a separate deal, they were never on the table. :roll: Again, no *hit...and silly comment, the Iran regime will not negotiate with the Trump admin.

Of course with the nuclear deal in place and the passage of time you have a solid foundation to build on based in trust in both directions to negotiate a missile agreement. Kiss that good bye.

The deal was signed not because we trust the mullahs, it was signed because we trust our technology and our people! Hang it up 72...you've been wrong about so much these past couple years it's not even funny. ;)
tech37, it's perfectly reasonable to critique the JCPOA (except that it indeed prevent Iran from getting a bomb on the timetable everyone expected, including the expectations of our allies like Israel) as not addressing every issue we have with Iran. It definitely didn't address all issues.

But, you're right, there's no way Iran negotiates with the Trump administration, because they know with 100% certainty that the Trump crew will not keep their word, and will accept nothing less than regime change. Oh I absolutely disagree. Do not conflate Bolton with Trump. Rightly or wrongly, if the mullahs come back to the table, Trump will treat them just as he does Kim. I heard a news clip yesterday where Trump said, "make Iran great again"... silly but I believe he means that, but only if they give up their nuke and terrorism-funding ambitions and honorably negotiate. Don't hold your breath. They might well have negotiated with an Administration that offered carrots and consistency, as well as respect, but the Trump folks never attempted that approach. It was all about the politics of criticizing the Obama deal.

I don't see '72 or anyone else on here cheerleading for the current Iranian system of government. We can walk and chew gum as recognizing that they are a dangerous regime, an adversary, indeed a part Bush's 'axis of evil', while also decrying the rise of authoritarianism under Trump. No one on here's 'okie dokie' with the Iranians. We just think that Trump and his team are committing massive international malpractice. The USA is 'our team', we want better.

BTW, show us where we don't have that technology. We do.
It's definitely not the only way we monitor Iran though.
Uhh huh. Let's see, Kim's testing missiles, continues to refine his nuclear technology base, and the two of them are BFFs. Big success!
Trump's a chump on that one. As are any voters who think otherwise.

The Iranians aren't going to play the Kim smoochy game. Not and maintain power.
Just as importantly though, Trump screwed the pooch with withdrawing from a working deal. What's that signal? no deal with the US can be trusted, at least not with this President. Remember, this is the guy who wanted a complete Muslim ban. Trust him? And unless Trump fires Bolton and Pompeo, the Iranians know who the 'brains' are in the Administration, and it ain't Trump.
tech37
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Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by tech37 »

tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:28 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:00 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:20 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:20 am
tech37 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:37 pm
a fan wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:15 pm Obama and our allies got them to stop their nuke program. You act like that's a trifle. A nothing.
:roll: Forget the little Ds and Rs schtick for once and consider reality.

What proof do you have to show Iran stopped their nuke program under JCPOA? And, how you can possibly trust the Mullahs is beyond me.

They have continued their long range ballistic missile development and not allowed inspectors into military sites. Those are the reasons Trump's admin broke from JCPOA and rightly so.

So where's the proof a fan since you and others are so certain Iran complied under JCPOA? Hint: You're kidding yourselves... :roll:

Total BS as usual. :lol: This coming from the guy who loses sleep for fear that Trump is becoming a fascist, authoritarian dictator, and yet is quick to support the real life religio-fascists ruling Iran...talk about BS!

US space based radiation monitoring says there is no change in the military facilities. We have their detailed radiation profiles concurrent with our inspection of the facilities just prior to deal signing. We have seen no new unexplained construction at these sites. On the ground UN monitors are telling you the sites they are inspecting are in compliance and they have access to the space based measurements as well, so they have a complete picture of what is going on. Show us where it says that spaced-based instruments can detect radiation in underground facilities in Iran.


Missiles were never part of the agreement. :roll: No *hit... That's why I've been saying the deal was flawed from the start. JCPOA was a temporary attempt to stop Iran from getting the bomb, yet allowed for the bomb delivery system to be developed...just brilliant! And, the regime has broken and continues to break UN Resolutions against the development of ballistic missiles but of course you're okie dokie with that since they're your BFFs (Best Fascist Friends). :lol: You want to limit the missiles - negotiate a separate deal, they were never on the table. :roll: Again, no *hit...and silly comment, the Iran regime will not negotiate with the Trump admin.

Of course with the nuclear deal in place and the passage of time you have a solid foundation to build on based in trust in both directions to negotiate a missile agreement. Kiss that good bye.

The deal was signed not because we trust the mullahs, it was signed because we trust our technology and our people! Hang it up 72...you've been wrong about so much these past couple years it's not even funny. ;)
tech37, it's perfectly reasonable to critique the JCPOA (except that it indeed prevent Iran from getting a bomb on the timetable everyone expected, including the expectations of our allies like Israel) as not addressing every issue we have with Iran. It definitely didn't address all issues.

But, you're right, there's no way Iran negotiates with the Trump administration, because they know with 100% certainty that the Trump crew will not keep their word, and will accept nothing less than regime change. Oh I absolutely disagree. Do not conflate Bolton with Trump. Rightly or wrongly, if the mullahs come back to the table, Trump will treat them just as he does Kim. I heard a news clip yesterday where Trump said, "make Iran great again"... silly but I believe he means that, but only if they give up their nuke and terrorism-funding ambitions and honorably negotiate. Don't hold your breath. They might well have negotiated with an Administration that offered carrots and consistency, as well as respect, but the Trump folks never attempted that approach. It was all about the politics of criticizing the Obama deal. Nope. It was about them not allowing inspections of military sites, development of ballistic missiles despite UN Resolutions, and about the continued funding of terrorism and proxy wars. Were politics involved?...of course but not without solid reasons behind the politics for walking. ;)

I don't see '72 or anyone else on here cheerleading for the current Iranian system of government. We can walk and chew gum as recognizing that they are a dangerous regime, an adversary, indeed a part Bush's 'axis of evil', while also decrying the rise of authoritarianism under Trump. No one on here's 'okie dokie' with the Iranians. We just think that Trump and his team are committing massive international malpractice. The USA is 'our team', we want better.

BTW, show us where we don't have that technology. We do.
It's definitely not the only way we monitor Iran though.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

LandM wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:23 pm MD,
I was part of the MCC crew that was responsible for the TDRS satellite on the Challenger - met every one of them including Onizuka who the base was later named after - I was a lowly LT but had the important job of being the security officer which is how I learned not to be late for anything :D . People during this time thought we could read license plates off cars - nope. There were so many things people thought a satellite could do, nope. I would love to see that spec;

To clarify my point on Iran, the US created allot of issues in the ME and mostly because an admin would change and then you get a new and then we would walk away and then we would get a new one and we would get back involved - we have created our own messes including Iran and the Shah. The Iranians are messing around all over the ME and some of their buddies are having fun in Europe......just poke them in the eyes man - no shots.
Best
Absolutely, the movies are consistently way out in front of reality. But not so far out that reality doesn't catch up in due course. Including license plates :). (Challenger was a long, long time ago). Note what's happened with processing speeds, chip sizes, etc. Light years different capabilities than just a decade ago, much less 3 decades ago.

I too am not currently in the know. I used to be a venture investor in various defense technologies, so had a better window a decade ago. And my brother in law has spent many decades in various signal detection and computer processing arenas, all with 3 letter agency applications. He can't tell me anything, of course, but I know enough about the underlying technology drivers to know that measuring radiation from afar is very much in the bandwidth of capabilities of today.
Last edited by MDlaxfan76 on Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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old salt
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Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by old salt »

CU88 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:47 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:25 pm
CU88 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:00 am
old salt wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:32 pm Had they downed the P-8, we'd be in the midst of an all out air & naval war.
Do you really think that we would go to "all out war" for just that?!?!
Just that ?
Air & Naval war = yes. Ground combat vs Iran = no.

That's why I questioned the tactical decision to expose the P-8 (M/RQ-4) as a target, after Iran shot at a MQ-9 the week prior & their Houhi proxies shot down a MQ-9 surveilling the Bab al Mandab strait in Yemen.

Shooting down a manned, multi crew surveillance aircraft, in intl airspace, is more than t!t-for tat gradually escalating reprisals.
This is not a scenario that lends itself to the incremental ratcheting up of military strikes. It won't remain limited or contained.

IMHO, if they kill an American, we will take out their air defenses, & air + naval assets threatening US bases & the flow of maritime shipping.
o s, are you the online persona for war-monger John Bolton?

What kind of person, much less Nation, wages war for the loss of a machine? Maybe a once proud world power being led into oblivion buy a homicidal idiot??

How did the world respond when the US shot down an Iranian passenger plane, in Iranian airspace, killing all of the plane’s 290 civilian passengers? July 3rd will be the 31st Anniversary of this incident, but I am sure you knew this and have plans to celebrate this great Victory.
You are either incoherent, or you do not know how to read.
I agreed with not responding to the loss of an unmanned aircraft in a way that would kill Iranians.
I said we should not respond unless they kill an American.

You're an accusatory moron -- on LP I repeatedly criticized the decisions made by the US Navy Captain who shot down the Iranian airliner & stated that he should have been court martialed for negligence.
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old salt
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Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:20 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:20 pm JCPOA was a temporary attempt to stop Iran from getting the bomb
You and old salt say this as if we negotiated for Iran to not eat fish on Tuesdays. You wave it away as if it's some trifle. A pointless concession. "It stopped Iran from getting a nuke...no big deal." As if we don't care one way or another if they have one.


You both need to stop doing that, because it makes you both sound either bitterly partisan, or epically stupid. And we all know that neither of you are anywhere close to stupid.

Trump killed the deal because Obama signed it. You know it. I know it. The world knows it. Petty, grammar school diplomacy, enacted by a child. Stop defending him.

As I stated before, all Trump had to do was keep the deal in place, and threaten new sanctions over the missile development. The funny part is that both you are conceding that this was the obvious thing to do....by ignoring this notion, and doubling down.

We've entered the tech-oldsalt vortex where no matter what, Trump is a genius, and Obama can't tie his own shoelaces. :lol: ;)
It doesn't matter why Trump pulled out of JCPOA.
It had a fundamental flaw that doomed it.
Until/unless it is renegotiated sufficiently to earn Senate ratification,
it will always be at risk of falling apart.
a fan
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Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:06 pm It doesn't matter why Trump pulled out of JCPOA.
It had a fundamental flaw that doomed it.
Yes. A Democrat signed deal. And we can't have that.

I already told you what to do about it, but you're too stubborn to admit rhetorical defeat. Keep the JCPOA, and then start negotiations to halt missile development. Your flaw is now irrelevant to discussions.

Then you can threaten/impose all the sanctions you like on the missile component, while holding our word to the JCPOA. Again: diplomatic child's play. You and I both know that Trump had multiple advisors telling him to do that. He didn't because he wanted to show how big his hands are to Sean Hannity and his fans.

Now, as I keep pointing out, the path YOU favor, and the one Trump took, gives Trump nothing. No deal on anything. No inspections. And they can go right on developing missiles. And you and tech are trying to sell this as positive or "inevitable". Sorry, this doesn't pass the laugh test.

And worse, we went back on our word. Making future negotiations next to impossible.

What did Mattis counsel? That's right..."when America gives her word, we have to live up to it and work with our allies."
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old salt
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Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by old salt »

ABV 8.3% wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:45 pm The bridge over Cos Cob harbor was designed to NOT fail too. Made my summer visiting the old girlfriend such a problem just starting taking the train from Jersey.

Thank you, but none of what you replied helped much with the question. No evasive tactics at 60K feet? All those eyes, expensive eyes at that, in the Straitz of Hormez, and not one of those eyes can detect an Iranian missile attack? What a joke our "defense" system is if this is the case. I could buy $5 million, per drone, but not 20 to 30 times that much.
The RQ-4 is the size of a 737, is not maneuverable enough to evade a SAM & not responsive enough for such evasive maneuvers, nor are it's operators trained for such maneuvers.

Obviously, whoever commanded that mission did not expect the Iranians to take the shot.
Based on the article I linked, apparently we've been operating the RQ-4 there for a long time without incident.
Which troubles me with the decision to launch it, given the recent shots they took at the smaller MQ-9s.

If we start convoys, we should bring the old R/MQ-1 Predators out of mothballs for over watch of the convoys from approaching IRGC speed boats.
They're excess & cheap enough to be expendable.
Last edited by old salt on Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
jhu72
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Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by jhu72 »

LandM wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:56 pm 72,
First two years was in the Blue Cube in Sunnyvale, CA - hopefully I read correctly what you typed because if we are still flying B-52's I am not thinking either a low flyer or geo satellite is gonna sniff out what you claim.....love to see that spec;

Secondly my old man in his 30 year career had some exotic camping trips - never spoke about them except the Mount Yards BUT he did speak about his two years in Iran. When JC was putting his mission together they tried recalling him back - he could have gotten a blind person in and out without anyone knowing but he said no - he was adamant that the Iranians were liers', thief's, not trustworthy, and if you wanted to raise the education level of the world turn it into a parking lot. Not advocating that but between some financial and cyber stuff - no shots fired.
Best

Detecting gamma radiation from orbit with modern electronics is a piece of cake. With appropriate collimation at the detector, monitoring specific areas / sites / facilities on the earth is not a problem. Obviously the lower the orbit, the better the resolution. The higher the orbit, the more sophisticated the collimation.

The ability to do this is in civilian hands. The equipment to do this can be bought off the shelf. If you think this can't be done - think again. Astronomers are doing this, with poor resolution, but good enough for the military application, and have been for more than 20 years.

All gamma rays are not filtered out by the atmosphere. Or dirt, or rocks or anything else. It is a statistical process. It is also possible to detect gamma ray interactions in the atmosphere by means of secondary radiation. This is a more sophisticated problem.
Last edited by jhu72 on Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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old salt
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Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:19 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:06 pm It doesn't matter why Trump pulled out of JCPOA.
It had a fundamental flaw that doomed it.
Yes. A Democrat signed deal. And we can't have that.
More of your partisan BS. Any treaty is going to require both (R) & (D) Senate votes.

I already told you what to do about it, but you're too stubborn to admit rhetorical defeat. Keep the JCPOA, and then start negotiations to halt missile development. Your flaw is now irrelevant to discussions.
That might be what we end up with. If it verifiably & effectively freezes missile & warhead development, it might gain enough (R) Senate votes for ratification.

Then you can threaten/impose all the sanctions you like on the missile component, while holding our word to the JCPOA. Again: diplomatic child's play. You and I both know that Trump had multiple advisors telling him to do that. He didn't because he wanted to show how big his hands are to Sean Hannity and his fans.
Can't do it unless/until the Iranians agree to re-negotiate,

Now, as I keep pointing out, the path YOU favor, and the one Trump took, gives Trump nothing. No deal on anything. No inspections. And they can go right on developing missiles. And you and tech are trying to sell this as positive or "inevitable". Sorry, this doesn't pass the laugh test.
Cross your legs Mr Instant gratification, Trump's just getting started.

And worse, we went back on our word. Making future negotiations next to impossible.
It wasn't "our word", Sen Cotton's letter told the world that it was just temporary.

What did Mattis counsel? That's right..."when America gives her word, we have to live up to it and work with our allies."
Trump is living up to his word, exercising the powers of his office, & trying to get our allies to wotk with us.
You just refuse to acknowledge the flaw of agreeing to a treaty that could not be ratified. I warned you that this would happen.
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Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:36 pm Cross your legs Mr Instant gratification, Trump's just getting started.
Great news. His term is almost over. 2 1/2 years, and not one single sit down, and you're accusing me of being impatient? Yeah, ok. :lol:


You're doing a whole lot of dancing to avoid admitting Trump F'ed up here.

Oh well. You won't admit it. But I know you agree. And that's enough for me. Let's move on....
jhu72
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Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by jhu72 »

tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:39 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:28 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:00 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:20 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:20 am
tech37 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:37 pm
a fan wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:15 pm Obama and our allies got them to stop their nuke program. You act like that's a trifle. A nothing.
:roll: Forget the little Ds and Rs schtick for once and consider reality.

What proof do you have to show Iran stopped their nuke program under JCPOA? And, how you can possibly trust the Mullahs is beyond me.

They have continued their long range ballistic missile development and not allowed inspectors into military sites. Those are the reasons Trump's admin broke from JCPOA and rightly so.

So where's the proof a fan since you and others are so certain Iran complied under JCPOA? Hint: You're kidding yourselves... :roll:

Total BS as usual. :lol: This coming from the guy who loses sleep for fear that Trump is becoming a fascist, authoritarian dictator, and yet is quick to support the real life religio-fascists ruling Iran...talk about BS!

US space based radiation monitoring says there is no change in the military facilities. We have their detailed radiation profiles concurrent with our inspection of the facilities just prior to deal signing. We have seen no new unexplained construction at these sites. On the ground UN monitors are telling you the sites they are inspecting are in compliance and they have access to the space based measurements as well, so they have a complete picture of what is going on. Show us where it says that spaced-based instruments can detect radiation in underground facilities in Iran.


Missiles were never part of the agreement. :roll: No *hit... That's why I've been saying the deal was flawed from the start. JCPOA was a temporary attempt to stop Iran from getting the bomb, yet allowed for the bomb delivery system to be developed...just brilliant! And, the regime has broken and continues to break UN Resolutions against the development of ballistic missiles but of course you're okie dokie with that since they're your BFFs (Best Fascist Friends). :lol: You want to limit the missiles - negotiate a separate deal, they were never on the table. :roll: Again, no *hit...and silly comment, the Iran regime will not negotiate with the Trump admin.

Of course with the nuclear deal in place and the passage of time you have a solid foundation to build on based in trust in both directions to negotiate a missile agreement. Kiss that good bye.

The deal was signed not because we trust the mullahs, it was signed because we trust our technology and our people! Hang it up 72...you've been wrong about so much these past couple years it's not even funny. ;)
tech37, it's perfectly reasonable to critique the JCPOA (except that it indeed prevent Iran from getting a bomb on the timetable everyone expected, including the expectations of our allies like Israel) as not addressing every issue we have with Iran. It definitely didn't address all issues.

But, you're right, there's no way Iran negotiates with the Trump administration, because they know with 100% certainty that the Trump crew will not keep their word, and will accept nothing less than regime change. Oh I absolutely disagree. Do not conflate Bolton with Trump. Rightly or wrongly, if the mullahs come back to the table, Trump will treat them just as he does Kim. I heard a news clip yesterday where Trump said, "make Iran great again"... silly but I believe he means that, but only if they give up their nuke and terrorism-funding ambitions and honorably negotiate. Don't hold your breath. They might well have negotiated with an Administration that offered carrots and consistency, as well as respect, but the Trump folks never attempted that approach. It was all about the politics of criticizing the Obama deal. Nope. It was about them not allowing inspections of military sites, development of ballistic missiles despite UN Resolutions, and about the continued funding of terrorism and proxy wars. Were politics involved?...of course but not without solid reasons behind the politics for walking. ;)

I don't see '72 or anyone else on here cheerleading for the current Iranian system of government. We can walk and chew gum as recognizing that they are a dangerous regime, an adversary, indeed a part Bush's 'axis of evil', while also decrying the rise of authoritarianism under Trump. No one on here's 'okie dokie' with the Iranians. We just think that Trump and his team are committing massive international malpractice. The USA is 'our team', we want better.

BTW, show us where we don't have that technology. We do.
It's definitely not the only way we monitor Iran though.
It is more difficult, but not impossible to detect radiation from an underground facility. Dirt, rocks, lead, etc don't stop all radiation. Even air will filter the radiation, just not as well as higher density materials. But this is not really the point. You don't have to be able to "see" underground. If it is moved above ground within the site, you will "see it". If it is moved between sites you will "see it". We know their military sites did not have production capability because they where baseline inspected. We can observe new construction optically. We can hear it under certain conditions during construction. The ability to remotely monitor for radiation knowing its site profile at baseline is sufficient to guarantee they are not producing nuclear materials. If we can show cause - ie. data that makes us suspicious, the treaty allows us to perform inspections upon notice.

We have been through this before. Real live nuclear and particle physicists have designed the protocols for monitoring these sites. They know their business and aren't going to allow for holes in the system. They know the capabilities of their detector systems far better than you and the details far better than I.
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LandM
Posts: 661
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:51 am

Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by LandM »

72 and MD,
your cell phone has more computing power then what the shuttle did and your first brick phone had more then Apollo - sold three software companies - I think I can speak the language - at least in a bar :lol:

My point was if you want to hide something build a big whole, way deep in the earth and I am not sure anyone would catch you. On or near the surface, totally agree but dig deep enough and I think you could get away with it. Bigger point is that the Iranians are messing around - I personally think we stay out of this BUT we started allot of this mess - so between financial and cyber - pretty sure we carry a heavier punch and it will be like that obnoxious kid in grade school who went crying home to mommy.
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cradleandshoot
Posts: 13840
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Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by cradleandshoot »

a fan wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:19 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:36 pm Cross your legs Mr Instant gratification, Trump's just getting started.
Great news. His term is almost over. 2 1/2 years, and not one single sit down, and you're accusing me of being impatient? Yeah, ok. :lol:


You're doing a whole lot of dancing to avoid admitting Trump F'ed up here.

Oh well. You won't admit it. But I know you agree. And that's enough for me. Let's move on....
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson ... g-n2086372 So lets get this squared away a Fan. The United States Senate never had the opportunity to ratify this thing Obama conjured up and the Iranian government refused to sign this thing that Obama conjured up and yet you get this warm fuzzy sense of security that something was actually accomplished here. The only thing that was accomplished here was that the Iranians conned that dumb fudge Obama out of a lot of cold hard cash. Sure it was just a coincidence that the transfer of cash just happened to occur when Iran released the people they had held hostage. If those C130's had never been spotted on the ground in Iran it is very likely this transfer of cash would never have been acknowledged by the US government... EVER. So much for transparency on this little transaction... :roll:
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
tech37
Posts: 4259
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by tech37 »

jhu72 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:26 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:39 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:28 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:00 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:20 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:20 am
tech37 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:37 pm
a fan wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:15 pm Obama and our allies got them to stop their nuke program. You act like that's a trifle. A nothing.
:roll: Forget the little Ds and Rs schtick for once and consider reality.

What proof do you have to show Iran stopped their nuke program under JCPOA? And, how you can possibly trust the Mullahs is beyond me.

They have continued their long range ballistic missile development and not allowed inspectors into military sites. Those are the reasons Trump's admin broke from JCPOA and rightly so.

So where's the proof a fan since you and others are so certain Iran complied under JCPOA? Hint: You're kidding yourselves... :roll:

Total BS as usual. :lol: This coming from the guy who loses sleep for fear that Trump is becoming a fascist, authoritarian dictator, and yet is quick to support the real life religio-fascists ruling Iran...talk about BS!

US space based radiation monitoring says there is no change in the military facilities. We have their detailed radiation profiles concurrent with our inspection of the facilities just prior to deal signing. We have seen no new unexplained construction at these sites. On the ground UN monitors are telling you the sites they are inspecting are in compliance and they have access to the space based measurements as well, so they have a complete picture of what is going on. Show us where it says that spaced-based instruments can detect radiation in underground facilities in Iran.


Missiles were never part of the agreement. :roll: No *hit... That's why I've been saying the deal was flawed from the start. JCPOA was a temporary attempt to stop Iran from getting the bomb, yet allowed for the bomb delivery system to be developed...just brilliant! And, the regime has broken and continues to break UN Resolutions against the development of ballistic missiles but of course you're okie dokie with that since they're your BFFs (Best Fascist Friends). :lol: You want to limit the missiles - negotiate a separate deal, they were never on the table. :roll: Again, no *hit...and silly comment, the Iran regime will not negotiate with the Trump admin.

Of course with the nuclear deal in place and the passage of time you have a solid foundation to build on based in trust in both directions to negotiate a missile agreement. Kiss that good bye.

The deal was signed not because we trust the mullahs, it was signed because we trust our technology and our people! Hang it up 72...you've been wrong about so much these past couple years it's not even funny. ;)
tech37, it's perfectly reasonable to critique the JCPOA (except that it indeed prevent Iran from getting a bomb on the timetable everyone expected, including the expectations of our allies like Israel) as not addressing every issue we have with Iran. It definitely didn't address all issues.

But, you're right, there's no way Iran negotiates with the Trump administration, because they know with 100% certainty that the Trump crew will not keep their word, and will accept nothing less than regime change. Oh I absolutely disagree. Do not conflate Bolton with Trump. Rightly or wrongly, if the mullahs come back to the table, Trump will treat them just as he does Kim. I heard a news clip yesterday where Trump said, "make Iran great again"... silly but I believe he means that, but only if they give up their nuke and terrorism-funding ambitions and honorably negotiate. Don't hold your breath. They might well have negotiated with an Administration that offered carrots and consistency, as well as respect, but the Trump folks never attempted that approach. It was all about the politics of criticizing the Obama deal. Nope. It was about them not allowing inspections of military sites, development of ballistic missiles despite UN Resolutions, and about the continued funding of terrorism and proxy wars. Were politics involved?...of course but not without solid reasons behind the politics for walking. ;)

I don't see '72 or anyone else on here cheerleading for the current Iranian system of government. We can walk and chew gum as recognizing that they are a dangerous regime, an adversary, indeed a part Bush's 'axis of evil', while also decrying the rise of authoritarianism under Trump. No one on here's 'okie dokie' with the Iranians. We just think that Trump and his team are committing massive international malpractice. The USA is 'our team', we want better.

BTW, show us where we don't have that technology. We do.
It's definitely not the only way we monitor Iran though.
It is more difficult, but not impossible to detect radiation from an underground facility. Dirt, rocks, lead, etc don't stop all radiation. Even air will filter the radiation, just not as well as higher density materials. But this is not really the point. You don't have to be able to "see" underground. If it is moved above ground within the site, you will "see it". If it is moved between sites you will "see it". We know their military sites did not have production capability because they where baseline inspected. We can observe new construction optically. We can hear it under certain conditions during construction. The ability to remotely monitor for radiation knowing its site profile at baseline is sufficient to guarantee they are not producing nuclear materials. If we can show cause - ie. data that makes us suspicious, the treaty allows us to perform inspections upon notice.

We have been through this before. Real live nuclear and particle physicists have designed the protocols for monitoring these sites. They know their business and aren't going to allow for holes in the system. They know the capabilities of their detector systems far better than you and the details far better than I.
Underground? Good luck professor...

https://www.princeton.edu/sgs/publicati ... _Habib.pdf

CONCLUSION
The simple model presented here shows that any long range detection of centrifuge plants through their electromagnetic signature in the atmosphere is not possible. However, within 0.5–3 kilometer range of the plant, this might be aviable technique if there is no aluminum casing present around the motor. If themotor is encased in aluminum that is more than 10 mm thick, the detectablity of a clandestine plant is reduced to within a few hundred meters.
jhu72
Posts: 13876
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by jhu72 »

LandM wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:42 pm 72 and MD,
your cell phone has more computing power then what the shuttle did and your first brick phone had more then Apollo - sold three software companies - I think I can speak the language - at least in a bar :lol:

My point was if you want to hide something build a big whole, way deep in the earth and I am not sure anyone would catch you. On or near the surface, totally agree but dig deep enough and I think you could get away with it. Bigger point is that the Iranians are messing around - I personally think we stay out of this BUT we started allot of this mess - so between financial and cyber - pretty sure we carry a heavier punch and it will be like that obnoxious kid in grade school who went crying home to mommy.
Of course dig a big hole (not a whole ;) ) and the deeper the better. But if someone has taken an inventory of everything you own before you move into the hole, they have a pretty good idea of what you can do in the hole (out of sight) and in order to do anything you should not be doing in the hole you are going to have to move something in from the outside where this movement can be observed.

None the less your point is understood and taken, you need to keep an eye and an ear on these guys.
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a fan
Posts: 17713
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by a fan »

cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:47 pm https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson ... g-n2086372 So lets get this squared away a Fan. The United States Senate never had the opportunity to ratify this thing Obama conjured up and the Iranian government refused to sign this thing that Obama conjured up and yet you get this warm fuzzy sense of security that something was actually accomplished here. The only thing that was accomplished here was that the Iranians conned that dumb fudge Obama out of a lot of cold hard cash. Sure it was just a coincidence that the transfer of cash just happened to occur when Iran released the people they had held hostage. If those C130's had never been spotted on the ground in Iran it is very likely this transfer of cash would never have been acknowledged by the US government... EVER. So much for transparency on this little transaction... :roll:
Et tu?

If you want to pretend like 4 years without Iran getting a nuclear bomb counts for nothing, then yes, the deal we signed where Iran would stop their nuclear warhead program was pointless.

I don't get it. I don't understand how nutso you've all become over this deal.

US intel told us Iran was just months away from getting the bomb. THAT is why Obama and our allies--who are actually within missile range--signed the deal.

I don't understand why so many posters like you are acting like Obama signed this deal because he was bored and looking for "something cool to do on a Thursday night".

What's more, is that the deal worked, even according to our own Generals-----and you guys are STILL acting like it was a stupid deal.


And when anyone presses these posters to tell us what you would have done-----in other words, if Obama's deal was so bad, then what's YOUR plan----you all run and hide.

I don't get it.
jhu72
Posts: 13876
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by jhu72 »

tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:00 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:26 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:39 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:28 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:00 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:20 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:20 am
tech37 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:37 pm
a fan wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:15 pm Obama and our allies got them to stop their nuke program. You act like that's a trifle. A nothing.
:roll: Forget the little Ds and Rs schtick for once and consider reality.

What proof do you have to show Iran stopped their nuke program under JCPOA? And, how you can possibly trust the Mullahs is beyond me.

They have continued their long range ballistic missile development and not allowed inspectors into military sites. Those are the reasons Trump's admin broke from JCPOA and rightly so.

So where's the proof a fan since you and others are so certain Iran complied under JCPOA? Hint: You're kidding yourselves... :roll:

Total BS as usual. :lol: This coming from the guy who loses sleep for fear that Trump is becoming a fascist, authoritarian dictator, and yet is quick to support the real life religio-fascists ruling Iran...talk about BS!

US space based radiation monitoring says there is no change in the military facilities. We have their detailed radiation profiles concurrent with our inspection of the facilities just prior to deal signing. We have seen no new unexplained construction at these sites. On the ground UN monitors are telling you the sites they are inspecting are in compliance and they have access to the space based measurements as well, so they have a complete picture of what is going on. Show us where it says that spaced-based instruments can detect radiation in underground facilities in Iran.


Missiles were never part of the agreement. :roll: No *hit... That's why I've been saying the deal was flawed from the start. JCPOA was a temporary attempt to stop Iran from getting the bomb, yet allowed for the bomb delivery system to be developed...just brilliant! And, the regime has broken and continues to break UN Resolutions against the development of ballistic missiles but of course you're okie dokie with that since they're your BFFs (Best Fascist Friends). :lol: You want to limit the missiles - negotiate a separate deal, they were never on the table. :roll: Again, no *hit...and silly comment, the Iran regime will not negotiate with the Trump admin.

Of course with the nuclear deal in place and the passage of time you have a solid foundation to build on based in trust in both directions to negotiate a missile agreement. Kiss that good bye.

The deal was signed not because we trust the mullahs, it was signed because we trust our technology and our people! Hang it up 72...you've been wrong about so much these past couple years it's not even funny. ;)
tech37, it's perfectly reasonable to critique the JCPOA (except that it indeed prevent Iran from getting a bomb on the timetable everyone expected, including the expectations of our allies like Israel) as not addressing every issue we have with Iran. It definitely didn't address all issues.

But, you're right, there's no way Iran negotiates with the Trump administration, because they know with 100% certainty that the Trump crew will not keep their word, and will accept nothing less than regime change. Oh I absolutely disagree. Do not conflate Bolton with Trump. Rightly or wrongly, if the mullahs come back to the table, Trump will treat them just as he does Kim. I heard a news clip yesterday where Trump said, "make Iran great again"... silly but I believe he means that, but only if they give up their nuke and terrorism-funding ambitions and honorably negotiate. Don't hold your breath. They might well have negotiated with an Administration that offered carrots and consistency, as well as respect, but the Trump folks never attempted that approach. It was all about the politics of criticizing the Obama deal. Nope. It was about them not allowing inspections of military sites, development of ballistic missiles despite UN Resolutions, and about the continued funding of terrorism and proxy wars. Were politics involved?...of course but not without solid reasons behind the politics for walking. ;)

I don't see '72 or anyone else on here cheerleading for the current Iranian system of government. We can walk and chew gum as recognizing that they are a dangerous regime, an adversary, indeed a part Bush's 'axis of evil', while also decrying the rise of authoritarianism under Trump. No one on here's 'okie dokie' with the Iranians. We just think that Trump and his team are committing massive international malpractice. The USA is 'our team', we want better.

BTW, show us where we don't have that technology. We do.
It's definitely not the only way we monitor Iran though.
It is more difficult, but not impossible to detect radiation from an underground facility. Dirt, rocks, lead, etc don't stop all radiation. Even air will filter the radiation, just not as well as higher density materials. But this is not really the point. You don't have to be able to "see" underground. If it is moved above ground within the site, you will "see it". If it is moved between sites you will "see it". We know their military sites did not have production capability because they where baseline inspected. We can observe new construction optically. We can hear it under certain conditions during construction. The ability to remotely monitor for radiation knowing its site profile at baseline is sufficient to guarantee they are not producing nuclear materials. If we can show cause - ie. data that makes us suspicious, the treaty allows us to perform inspections upon notice.

We have been through this before. Real live nuclear and particle physicists have designed the protocols for monitoring these sites. They know their business and aren't going to allow for holes in the system. They know the capabilities of their detector systems far better than you and the details far better than I.
Underground? Good luck professor...

https://www.princeton.edu/sgs/publicati ... _Habib.pdf

CONCLUSION
The simple model presented here shows that any long range detection of centrifuge plants through their electromagnetic signature in the atmosphere is not possible. However, within 0.5–3 kilometer range of the plant, this might be aviable technique if there is no aluminum casing present around the motor. If themotor is encased in aluminum that is more than 10 mm thick, the detectablity of a clandestine plant is reduced to within a few hundred meters.

:lol: :lol: -- nice try, I applaud your doing some research, but the article you point to is irrelevant to the type of radiation we are talking about. This is radio frequency radiation being discussed in the article, this is much lower frequency radiation, not even close to the same part of the spectrum we are talking about for nuclear radiation. In deed good luck with that professor ….
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tech37
Posts: 4259
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: Our Undeclared Wars

Post by tech37 »

jhu72 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:19 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:00 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:26 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:39 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:28 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:00 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:20 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:20 am
tech37 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:37 pm
a fan wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:15 pm Obama and our allies got them to stop their nuke program. You act like that's a trifle. A nothing.
:roll: Forget the little Ds and Rs schtick for once and consider reality.

What proof do you have to show Iran stopped their nuke program under JCPOA? And, how you can possibly trust the Mullahs is beyond me.

They have continued their long range ballistic missile development and not allowed inspectors into military sites. Those are the reasons Trump's admin broke from JCPOA and rightly so.

So where's the proof a fan since you and others are so certain Iran complied under JCPOA? Hint: You're kidding yourselves... :roll:

Total BS as usual. :lol: This coming from the guy who loses sleep for fear that Trump is becoming a fascist, authoritarian dictator, and yet is quick to support the real life religio-fascists ruling Iran...talk about BS!

US space based radiation monitoring says there is no change in the military facilities. We have their detailed radiation profiles concurrent with our inspection of the facilities just prior to deal signing. We have seen no new unexplained construction at these sites. On the ground UN monitors are telling you the sites they are inspecting are in compliance and they have access to the space based measurements as well, so they have a complete picture of what is going on. Show us where it says that spaced-based instruments can detect radiation in underground facilities in Iran.


Missiles were never part of the agreement. :roll: No *hit... That's why I've been saying the deal was flawed from the start. JCPOA was a temporary attempt to stop Iran from getting the bomb, yet allowed for the bomb delivery system to be developed...just brilliant! And, the regime has broken and continues to break UN Resolutions against the development of ballistic missiles but of course you're okie dokie with that since they're your BFFs (Best Fascist Friends). :lol: You want to limit the missiles - negotiate a separate deal, they were never on the table. :roll: Again, no *hit...and silly comment, the Iran regime will not negotiate with the Trump admin.

Of course with the nuclear deal in place and the passage of time you have a solid foundation to build on based in trust in both directions to negotiate a missile agreement. Kiss that good bye.

The deal was signed not because we trust the mullahs, it was signed because we trust our technology and our people! Hang it up 72...you've been wrong about so much these past couple years it's not even funny. ;)
tech37, it's perfectly reasonable to critique the JCPOA (except that it indeed prevent Iran from getting a bomb on the timetable everyone expected, including the expectations of our allies like Israel) as not addressing every issue we have with Iran. It definitely didn't address all issues.

But, you're right, there's no way Iran negotiates with the Trump administration, because they know with 100% certainty that the Trump crew will not keep their word, and will accept nothing less than regime change. Oh I absolutely disagree. Do not conflate Bolton with Trump. Rightly or wrongly, if the mullahs come back to the table, Trump will treat them just as he does Kim. I heard a news clip yesterday where Trump said, "make Iran great again"... silly but I believe he means that, but only if they give up their nuke and terrorism-funding ambitions and honorably negotiate. Don't hold your breath. They might well have negotiated with an Administration that offered carrots and consistency, as well as respect, but the Trump folks never attempted that approach. It was all about the politics of criticizing the Obama deal. Nope. It was about them not allowing inspections of military sites, development of ballistic missiles despite UN Resolutions, and about the continued funding of terrorism and proxy wars. Were politics involved?...of course but not without solid reasons behind the politics for walking. ;)

I don't see '72 or anyone else on here cheerleading for the current Iranian system of government. We can walk and chew gum as recognizing that they are a dangerous regime, an adversary, indeed a part Bush's 'axis of evil', while also decrying the rise of authoritarianism under Trump. No one on here's 'okie dokie' with the Iranians. We just think that Trump and his team are committing massive international malpractice. The USA is 'our team', we want better.

BTW, show us where we don't have that technology. We do.
It's definitely not the only way we monitor Iran though.
It is more difficult, but not impossible to detect radiation from an underground facility. Dirt, rocks, lead, etc don't stop all radiation. Even air will filter the radiation, just not as well as higher density materials. But this is not really the point. You don't have to be able to "see" underground. If it is moved above ground within the site, you will "see it". If it is moved between sites you will "see it". We know their military sites did not have production capability because they where baseline inspected. We can observe new construction optically. We can hear it under certain conditions during construction. The ability to remotely monitor for radiation knowing its site profile at baseline is sufficient to guarantee they are not producing nuclear materials. If we can show cause - ie. data that makes us suspicious, the treaty allows us to perform inspections upon notice.

We have been through this before. Real live nuclear and particle physicists have designed the protocols for monitoring these sites. They know their business and aren't going to allow for holes in the system. They know the capabilities of their detector systems far better than you and the details far better than I.
Underground? Good luck professor...

https://www.princeton.edu/sgs/publicati ... _Habib.pdf

CONCLUSION
The simple model presented here shows that any long range detection of centrifuge plants through their electromagnetic signature in the atmosphere is not possible. However, within 0.5–3 kilometer range of the plant, this might be aviable technique if there is no aluminum casing present around the motor. If themotor is encased in aluminum that is more than 10 mm thick, the detectablity of a clandestine plant is reduced to within a few hundred meters.

:lol: :lol: -- nice try, I applaud your doing some research, but the article you point to is irrelevant to the type of radiation we are talking about. This is radio frequency radiation being discussed in the article, this is much lower frequency radiation, not even close to the same part of the spectrum we are talking about for nuclear radiation. In deed good luck with that professor ….
Fine. So why stop there? What types of radiation given off by spinning centrifuges, hidden underground, can be detected from space-based instruments?

C'mon educate us 72!
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