Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

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CU77
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by CU77 »

As I pointed out above, the Rs had 2 years of total control of the fed gubmint and could have passed any asylum reform they wanted (if they were willing to blow up the filibuster in the Senate, as they were to get their SCOTUS picks). They didn't give it a thought. Now they blame the Ds for the problem, and old salt cheers them on in their frenzy of "not my fault!"

But they did manage to borrow one trillion dollars from China and give it to their fellow one-percenters, with the 99% on the hook to pay it back. Wealth transfer upward is all that really matters to them.
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old salt
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:13 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:44 pm Yes. That's the issue creating the immediate crisis.

We need to decrease the pull factor for bogus asylum seekers, before we can rationalize our immigration process, based on what we need for the long term, including a way to accommodate legit asylum seekers, not economic migrants rushing to get in before the asylum loopholes are closed.

Close the asylum loopholes, then we can see what we actually need for border security & to thwart the cartels.
While we welcome legit asylum seekers in an orderly fashion & help them resettle & find work (legally) where they are needed.
Why are you yelling at us? We're not the idiots who ran on "fixing the border".


Now it's the mess that Trump created. Yell at him. For the love of G8d, yell at him just once. Just one time during his term, blame him for not doing something that not only is he responsible for, but what he campaigned on fixing. And we're two years in, and all he's managed to do is make the problem worse, and to blame the Dems.

So don't ask us how to solve the problem. Ask Trump. It's his job.
I've given you the answer. Close the loopholes in the law.
Trump can't do that Congress has to.
I'm asking the experts here what they's do, since they've been telling us for 2 years that it's not a problem.
What caravan ? It was all FNC fake news.
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old salt
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by old salt »

CU77 wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:06 pm As I pointed out above, the Rs had 2 years of total control of the fed gubmint and could have passed any asylum reform they wanted (if they were willing to blow up the filibuster in the Senate, as they were to get their SCOTUS picks). They didn't give it a thought. Now they blame the Ds for the problem, and old salt cheers them on in their frenzy of "not my fault!"
So what ? The problem is still there, now. Only worse. So what are the (D)'s in Congress proposing to fix it, other than to ship more million$ to corrupt Northern Triangle governments, which will take years to have an effect, if ever. This needs to be addressed now.

They shouldn't have to blow up the filibuster for this, anymore than it can't be fixed unless it's part of comprehensive immigration reform.
Last edited by old salt on Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by old salt »

foreverlax wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:51 pm You are focused on the asylum seekers....which is an issue.

For me, there is plenty more to this issue then just those actually fleeing vs those trying to game the system.
It's the overwhelming volume of asylum seeking family units that are causing the current humanitarian crisis.
That's the most urgent aspect of immigration reform.
There's no need to further delay acting on this, holding it hostage to comp reform (which won't happen until after DACA is litigated).
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

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old salt wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:31 pm I've given you the answer. Close the loopholes in the law.
That's not it. Step one is that Congress has to actually want to move from status quo. They don't. I told you that in Trump's first year.

Until that changes, the details are wholly immaterial. The details you have given are great. I'm for anything that leads to turning E verify on, and holding businesses criminally liable for not using it. Everything else is completely irrelevant unless that happens. If that doesn't happen, nothing will change.

old salt wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:31 pm I'm asking the experts here what they's do, since they've been telling us for 2 years that it's not a problem.
What caravan ? It was all FNC fake news.
On this part, I agree with other posters. There's no emergency. The system has been this broken for 50 years. And far more people came north before the 08 crash.

The one time securing the border, fixing our immigration and visa systems was an actual emergency? Post 9/11.

They could have passed ANY bill that addressed VISA's and border security in the months after 9/11. Literally anything.

What did Republican leadership do? Yep. Nothing. A big. Fat. Nothing.

So yep, I laugh my *ss off about declared emergencies, and grown men in their 50's whining about Dems and open borders....when every single time the American people voted these Republican POS into office....nothing happens. I'm done with the excuses. I have NO CLUE why Republican voters are still buying their BS.

Oh, wait. FoxNation. THAT is why.
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

a fan wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:23 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:31 pm I've given you the answer. Close the loopholes in the law.
That's not it. Step one is that Congress has to actually want to move from status quo. They don't. I told you that in Trump's first year.

Until that changes, the details are wholly immaterial. The details you have given are great. I'm for anything that leads to turning E verify on, and holding businesses criminally liable for not using it. Everything else is completely irrelevant unless that happens. If that doesn't happen, nothing will change.

old salt wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:31 pm I'm asking the experts here what they's do, since they've been telling us for 2 years that it's not a problem.
What caravan ? It was all FNC fake news.
On this part, I agree with other posters. There's no emergency. The system has been this broken for 50 years. And far more people came north before the 08 crash.

The one time securing the border, fixing our immigration and visa systems was an actual emergency? Post 9/11.

They could have passed ANY bill that addressed VISA's and border security in the months after 9/11. Literally anything.

What did Republican leadership do? Yep. Nothing. A big. Fat. Nothing.

So yep, I laugh my *ss off about declared emergencies, and grown men in their 50's whining about Dems and open borders....when every single time the American people voted these Republican POS into office....nothing happens. I'm done with the excuses. I have NO CLUE why Republican voters are still buying their BS.

Oh, wait. FoxNation. THAT is why.
Yep. The lawmakers need to pass a law. Until then, the President of the United States of America and Stephen Miller can’t circumvent the law.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
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old salt
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:23 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:31 pm I've given you the answer. Close the loopholes in the law.
That's not it. Step one is that Congress has to actually want to move from status quo. They don't. I told you that in Trump's first year.
This is an emergency ; it wasn't before. The asylum seekers went down in 2017 after Trump was elected. Then the smugglers realized the courts weren't gong to let Trump halt catch & release, immigration reform fell apart & the US economy boomed, so the smugglers cranked up the caravans.

Until that changes, the details are wholly immaterial. The details you have given are great. I'm for anything that leads to turning E verify on, and holding businesses criminally liable for not using it. Everything else is completely irrelevant unless that happens. If that doesn't happen, nothing will change. No they're not. You're making the perfect the enemy of the good (enough). You don't need E verify to stop the asylum seeker surge. It needs to be part of comp immigration reform to deal with the entire undocumented population.
old salt wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:31 pm I'm asking the experts here what they's do, since they've been telling us for 2 years that it's not a problem.
What caravan ? It was all FNC fake news.
On this part, I agree with other posters. There's no emergency. The system has been this broken for 50 years. And far more people came north before the 08 crash.
There were 5000 credible fear entries granted in 2009. There were 95,000 granted in 2016.
The process is set up to handle single male men. If Mexicans, they can be quickly deported.
Not so with family units & kids. We are not equipped to handle these numbers, & still give them all the care & legal protections the laws require.


The one time securing the border, fixing our immigration and visa systems was an actual emergency? Post 9/11.

They could have passed ANY bill that addressed VISA's and border security in the months after 9/11. Literally anything.

What did Republican leadership do? Yep. Nothing. A big. Fat. Nothing.
9-11 was 18 years ago. Bush fixed it when he got the authority to immediately deport Mexicans.
That was before the smugglers came up with asylum con for migrants from non-contiguous countries.


So yep, I laugh my *ss off about declared emergencies, and grown men in their 50's whining about Dems and open borders....when every single time the American people voted these Republican POS into office....nothing happens. I'm done with the excuses. I have NO CLUE why Republican voters are still buying their BS.
Keep laughing & hand wringing about kids in cages.

Oh, wait. FoxNation. THAT is why.
Fox Nation wants a wall. I just want a couple legal loopholes closed, so the asylum system can function for legit refugees.
The (D)'s should do this, so the crisis abates & then show that Trump doesn't need a wall. They fixed it by fixing the asylum laws. Take the border crisis away.
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

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Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:30 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:23 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:31 pm I've given you the answer. Close the loopholes in the law.
That's not it. Step one is that Congress has to actually want to move from status quo. They don't. I told you that in Trump's first year.

Until that changes, the details are wholly immaterial. The details you have given are great. I'm for anything that leads to turning E verify on, and holding businesses criminally liable for not using it. Everything else is completely irrelevant unless that happens. If that doesn't happen, nothing will change.

old salt wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:31 pm I'm asking the experts here what they's do, since they've been telling us for 2 years that it's not a problem.
What caravan ? It was all FNC fake news.
On this part, I agree with other posters. There's no emergency. The system has been this broken for 50 years. And far more people came north before the 08 crash.

The one time securing the border, fixing our immigration and visa systems was an actual emergency? Post 9/11.

They could have passed ANY bill that addressed VISA's and border security in the months after 9/11. Literally anything.

What did Republican leadership do? Yep. Nothing. A big. Fat. Nothing.

So yep, I laugh my *ss off about declared emergencies, and grown men in their 50's whining about Dems and open borders....when every single time the American people voted these Republican POS into office....nothing happens. I'm done with the excuses. I have NO CLUE why Republican voters are still buying their BS.

Oh, wait. FoxNation. THAT is why.
Yep. The lawmakers need to pass a law. Until then, the President of the United States of America and Stephen Miller can’t circumvent the law.
What they can do is have ICE track down & start deporting asylum seekers who failed to make their court date.
Declare it a national emergency & federalize the National Guard to assist ICE in this process.
That would be within the law. Is that what it's going to take ?
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

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old salt wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:02 pmKeep laughing & hand wringing about kids in cages.
I'm not hand wringing about anything.

I told you they'd do nothing about these issues, and here we are.
Oh, wait. FoxNation. THAT is why.
old salt wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:02 pm Fox Nation wants a wall. I just want a couple legal loopholes closed, so the asylum system can function for legit refugees.
The (D)'s should do this, so the crisis abates & then show that Trump doesn't need a wall.
:lol: You're dealing with FoxNation, remember? These are not rational people. Rational solutions don't work with them. Not even a little.

Your "it wasn't an emergency...but it is now" holds zero water. The R's had their chance to fix theses issues with those things we call Bills & Laws. They did nothing. Just as I told you they would. The courts are now telling Trump all of you who support Republicans in office: "hey dudes, you can't make it up as you go along. If you want to fix problems, you have to get off your as*es, and pass new laws."

Now we're stuck. So yep, grab some popcorn. I'm not any happier about this issue than you are. But you can't say I didn't tell you what was coming. The R's and Trump want the status quo, a fight, and most important of all---someone to blame for why they didn't do their jobs.

They got all three. So a tip of the hat to McConnell and his band of do-nothings.

Oh well. I'm sure if you vote for these same guys again and their little R's---they'll fix this issue. No, for-realsy this time. I'm serious.
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:12 pm Your "it wasn't an emergency...but it is now" holds zero water.
March border apprehensions hit 12 year high

New Data Shows More Migrant Families Were Apprehended at the Border Than Ever Before
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

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:lol: Right. Wait, wait---let me guess. The emergency started January 3, 2019, and not a moment sooner.

Sell it to someone else.
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:50 pm :lol: Right. Wait, wait---let me guess. The emergency started January 3, 2019, and not a moment sooner.

Sell it to someone else.
I first pointed it out (post LP) on 10-22-18. You dismissed it then too, with your predictable (R) vs (D) rope-a-dope Fox News fake emergency.
Deja Vu, all over again.
old salt wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:17 pm They don't have to walk
Caravan buses arrive in border city
Sometimes they stowed away aboard freight trains. Sometimes they rode chartered buses. Sometimes they walked,
[/url]
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

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old salt wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:16 am I first pointed it out (post LP) on 10-22-18. You dismissed it then too, with your predictable (R) vs (D) rope-a-dope Fox News fake emergency.
So you're mad at me because I was right?

Here's your chance to show that I'm wrong, and it was an emergency, and the only thing in the way are those "open border Dems".

Did Congress get to work after 10-22-18? Can you show me their reforms to the asylum system? McConnell call an emergency session? A bill at the ready that will solve the problem.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

Odd. Are you SURE it was an emergency and not a political stunt? Because, boy, this is clearly serious stuff. So serious your party did nothing about it.

Wow. That's some brilliant lawmaking on their part. I especially like the part where they saw this emergency..and then left for the holidays. Breathtaking work by the Republicans. Can I vote for them now, ahead of the 2020 election? You know, to avoid the rush?

Wanna know what the real emergencies were? A massive tax break, and three massive spending bills. Somehow, they found the time to take care of those emergencies.
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:34 am
old salt wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:16 am I first pointed it out (post LP) on 10-22-18. You dismissed it then too, with your predictable (R) vs (D) rope-a-dope Fox News fake emergency.
So you're mad at me because I was right?

Here's your chance to show that I'm wrong, and it was an emergency, and the only thing in the way are those "open border Dems".

Did Congress get to work after 10-22-18? Can you show me their reforms to the asylum system? McConnell call an emergency session? A bill at the ready that will solve the problem.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

Odd. Are you SURE it was an emergency and not a political stunt? Because, boy, this is clearly serious stuff. So serious your party did nothing about it.

Wow. That's some brilliant lawmaking on their part. I especially like the part where they saw this emergency..and then left for the holidays. Breathtaking work by the Republicans. Can I vote for them now, ahead of the 2020 election? You know, to avoid the rush?

Wanna know what the real emergencies were? A massive tax break, and three massive spending bills. Somehow, they found the time to take care of those emergencies.
Ground Hog Day. This is just a replay of the opening pages of this thread. The Goodlatte bill & all the other (R) bills proposed after the caravans resumed contained provisions closing the asylum loopholes. They were held hostage to the wall, DACA, & all the other comp reform wish list.
old salt wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:29 pm
a fan wrote:
Bandito wrote:
a fan wrote:
Bandito wrote:Of course the Democrats have been silent. Since blacks are leaving the Democrat plantation, Democrats need a new group they can prey on and keep voting Democrat. This is why we must never let the Democrats have power again. They are anti American and want a global world take over of this country.
So if all immigrants vote Democrat, why hasn't Trump and Republicans passed an immigration reform bill, and sealed the border? Hell, I'd settle for a bill passing the House at this point. Where is the bill?

Did they forget to write it?
Check this out. Excellent article about the border crisis and invasion by Dr. Joondeph
So in other words, you know full well that your Republican party didn't lift a finger to seal the border, or to reform immigration.

And you don't care. But you think we need to keep voting for them....even thought they aren't actually doing anything about these problems.

Got it.
Had just 20 (D)'s joined 193 (R)'s, the Goodlatte bill would have passed the House & gone to the Senate.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... eform-bill
...an immigration reform bill sponsored by Rep. Bob Goodlatte, R-Va., Thursday that would have dramatically increased border security and provided a pathway to citizenship for roughly 700,000 of the 1.8 million so-called "Dreamers" living in the United States.

The bill — the more conservative option of two pieces of immigration legislation originally scheduled to be voted on this week — was defeated by a final vote of 193-231. No Democrats voted for the bill, and ...41 Republicans voted nay
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:50 am

The bill — the more conservative option of two pieces of immigration legislation originally scheduled to be voted on this week — was defeated by a final vote of 193-231. No Democrats voted for the bill, and ...41 Republicans voted nay[/i]
What's the quote supposed to show me? That 41 Republicans don't share your view that this is an emergency?

Take it up with them. But you won't. And neither will your fellow Republican voters.

So yep, groundhog day. Groundhog Day because Republican voters don't hold Republican Congressmen to account. Instead, you blame Democrats for being in the way, even when, laughably, there's a Republican majority.

You're asking, begging to be allowed to blame the Dems for doing it wrong. So that's what Trump and the R's give you. Groundhog day.

You'll catch on some day. Maybe.
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:11 am
old salt wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:50 am

The bill — the more conservative option of two pieces of immigration legislation originally scheduled to be voted on this week — was defeated by a final vote of 193-231. No Democrats voted for the bill, and ...41 Republicans voted nay[/i]
What's the quote supposed to show me? That 41 Republicans don't share your view that this is an emergency?

Take it up with them. But you won't. And neither will your fellow Republican voters.

So yep, groundhog day. Groundhog Day because Republican voters don't hold Republican Congressmen to account. Instead, you blame Democrats for being in the way, even when, laughably, there's a Republican majority.

You're asking, begging to be allowed to blame the Dems for doing it wrong. So that's what Trump and the R's give you. Groundhog day.

You'll catch on some day. Maybe.
You're the one who makes everything (R) vs (D). I've never disagreed that the (R)'s & (D)'s can't work together to accomplish anything significant (recall Obama didn't do comprehensive immigration reform either when he held Congress).

My point is -- it is not a big deal to fix this. Not major sweeping legislation, not a major program, just a minor tweak. The (R)'s are trying to fix it, but they need 60 Senate votes. This would not be a big give for the (D)'s. They wouldn't be giving Trump a win. If anything, it would reduce the pressure for a wall. Take the issue away from him. It's just gonna get worse on the border, so long as there's a pull factor for asylum seekers. Trump can't fix it without the help of Congress & the (D)'s are driving him in a direction that will just make things worse.
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

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old salt wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:38 am My point is -- it is not a big deal to fix this.
Yep. No argument from me. Same thing goes for overall immigration reform, while we're on the subject.
old salt wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:02 pm The (R)'s are trying to fix it
Nope.
old salt wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:02 pm This would not be a big give for the (D)'s. They wouldn't be giving Trump a win.
They've already given him wins. They just have to WANT to sign the bill.

They don't. Neither do the R's. That's why we're here.
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by dislaxxic »

TRUMP’S GONE FULL JESSEP

"...from reports based on feedback from those in his presence, he’s gone full Jessep and whatever mask he’s worn has slipped off. He’s given illegal orders, in direct opposition to his oath of office and the Constitution, the law and a court order, when he demanded the separation of asylum-seeking families at the border while “ranting and raving” that “border security was his issue.”

He believes he is the law, as if he’s king.

No one in the White House seems able to disabuse him of this concept — if they are trying at all."




..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
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RedFromMI
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by RedFromMI »

More fuel to the dumpster fire: and inside look from the WaPo on the last couple of weeks...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 0cfe41795b
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by foreverlax »

Obama tried putting kids in cages. It didn't work -- the courts stopped him. The kids in cages photos that generated so much attention were from 2014
.

Fact-Checking the Trump Administration’s Case for Child Separation at the Border
“We have to get the Democrats to go ahead and work with us. Because as a result of Democrat-supported loopholes in our federal laws, most illegal immigrant families and minors from Central America who arrive unlawfully at the border cannot be detained together or removed together, only released. These are crippling loopholes that cause family separation, which we don’t want.”

— Mr. Trump, in remarks on Tuesday to the National Federation of Independent Business
False.
Mr. Trump is again wrongly claiming that Democrats are responsible for “loopholes” that necessitate breaking apart families at the border.

The White House cites a 1997 court settlement and a 2008 law as these loopholes. Neither mandates detaining parents and separating children from their families.
WHAT WAS SAID

“The Obama administration, the Bush administration all separated families at the — They absolutely did.”

— The secretary of homeland security, Kirstjen Nielsen, in a news conference on Monday

This is misleading.
While previous administrations did break up families, it was rare, according to former officials and immigration experts. The Trump administration, by contrast, has knowingly enacted the practice that some officials have characterized as a deterrence against illegal entry.
In 2005, President George W. Bush introduced Operation Streamline, which, like the Trump administration’s zero-tolerance policy, referred for prosecution immigrants illegally crossing the border. Unlike the Trump administration, the Bush administration made an exception for parents with children.

Jeh Johnson, Ms. Nielsen’s predecessor under President Barack Obama, said in a recent interview with NPR that it was possible that families were separated, “but not as a matter of policy or practice.”

“I can’t say that it never happened,” Mr. Johnson said. “There may have been some exigent situation, some emergency. There may have been some doubt about whether the adult accompanying the child was in fact the parent of the child.”
Plenty of alternative facts.....Sessions made child separation a policy, that is a fact.
On May 7, Attorney General Jeff Sessions said in a speech that "If you're smuggling a child, then we're going to prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you, probably, as required by law. If you don't want your child separated, then don't bring them across the border illegally. It's not our fault that somebody does that."
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