SCOTUS

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Peter Brown
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Re: A civics question

Post by Peter Brown »

cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:54 pm
Cletus wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:50 pm
Cletus wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:38 pm
Any idea about a schedule or itinerary for the individual steps in the process beyond October 12th? I wonder if the White House or the Senate posts daily schedules or agendas...
Just found this from Lindsey Graham:

"We'll start on Oct. 12," Graham told "Sunday Morning Futures. "We'll have a day of introduction. We'll have two days of questioning, Tuesday and Wednesday, and on [Oct. 15] we'll begin the markup. We’ll hold it over for a week, and we'll report her nomination out of the committee on Oct. 22," he continued. "Then it will be up to Sen. [Mitch] McConnell as to what to do with the nomination once it comes out of committee."
IMHO I think the Republicans know they are better off with getting another Justice on the SCOTUS and would sacrifice trump in a heartbeat. A conservative court effectively neuters the democratic party for a very long time. The FLP extremists can never win the hearts and minds of middle America.


Agreed with this post.

Optimally I'd like Trump to win and get to replace both Breyer and Thomas the next 4 years as well.

After that, have at it. The Republic would have been saved at that stage.
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cradleandshoot
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Re: SCOTUS

Post by cradleandshoot »

ggait wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:56 pm
I agree with you 100 percent. I think once everyone gets over her personal objection to abortion and understand because you are a conservative you can actually be an impartial arbiter of the law.
Abortion is a false flag. ACB is totally fine with Roe/Casey** -- she's said so numerous times. I'd be stunned if she ever voted to overturn RvW. There's no reason to.

The relevant thing is that ACB is a full blown hardliner on everything else. Would have voted down Ocare. Full hard righty on guns, immigration, health care, voting rights, etc. etc. etc.

Good thing is that she gives the Dems a huge club to beat Trump with. Not on abortion. But on Ocare. That could help Sleepy Creepy a lot in the next couple weeks.

**Current law is totally not Roe v. Wade stand alone. It is Roe as modified by Casey. Roe/Casey keeps Roe nominally on the books, but allows Roe to be undermined by a thousand cuts. Which, by the way, is fine with me. Abortion should just be handled by the states and the state powers should be held accountable by voters for whatever they do on abortion.
"Which, by the way, is fine with me. Abortion should just be handled by the states and the state powers should be held accountable by voters for whatever they do on abortion."

Isn't that the exact same thing Justice Rehnquist said in his dissent to Roe v Wade? Abortion should not have been a judicial decision it should have been a legislative decision. By that he meant the states should have decided for themselves. If it had been handled correctly from the start our nation would not be having this same freaking conversation about a SCOTUS decision from 47 years ago. :roll:

Is your opinion about ACB that she should be judged on how she may decide in a particular case? If those are the standards you are applying then they should be held to every SCOTUS nominee from every POTUS from this point on. I remember way back in the oldie days when a SCOTUS nominee was given the privilege given by having been nominated by the sitting POTUS. It sounds pretty odd to this non legal eagle that a nominee should be graded on how we think they will vote on any given case before the court. What is that thing all you lawyers value so dearly? A judge is impartial and judges any case by what the law says not what politics or public opinion says. Is there a different criteria in that reasoning for conservative justices and liberal justices? Are you saying they interpret the law in accordance to their respective political parties? :?
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cradleandshoot
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Re: A civics question

Post by cradleandshoot »

Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:15 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:54 pm
Cletus wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:50 pm
Cletus wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:38 pm
Any idea about a schedule or itinerary for the individual steps in the process beyond October 12th? I wonder if the White House or the Senate posts daily schedules or agendas...
Just found this from Lindsey Graham:

"We'll start on Oct. 12," Graham told "Sunday Morning Futures. "We'll have a day of introduction. We'll have two days of questioning, Tuesday and Wednesday, and on [Oct. 15] we'll begin the markup. We’ll hold it over for a week, and we'll report her nomination out of the committee on Oct. 22," he continued. "Then it will be up to Sen. [Mitch] McConnell as to what to do with the nomination once it comes out of committee."
IMHO I think the Republicans know they are better off with getting another Justice on the SCOTUS and would sacrifice trump in a heartbeat. A conservative court effectively neuters the democratic party for a very long time. The FLP extremists can never win the hearts and minds of middle America.


Agreed with this post.

Optimally I'd like Trump to win and get to replace both Breyer and Thomas the next 4 years as well.

After that, have at it. The Republic would have been saved at that stage.
I guess as a political party you do what you can to throw a monkey wrench into the FLP agenda. Since the FLP agenda will almost certainly never float with middle America the best option they have for success is in the courts. POTUS is no real biggie in my mind anymore. A political party can have the prestige of having their guy/gal sitting in the oval office and having the bully pulpit. The dirty work of ramming agenda's through is done in the courts. trump could not even build a wall with all the static he got and having been shot down where??? In the courts. Think about it. :D
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
Peter Brown
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Re: A civics question

Post by Peter Brown »

cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:32 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:15 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:54 pm
Cletus wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:50 pm
Cletus wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:38 pm
Any idea about a schedule or itinerary for the individual steps in the process beyond October 12th? I wonder if the White House or the Senate posts daily schedules or agendas...
Just found this from Lindsey Graham:

"We'll start on Oct. 12," Graham told "Sunday Morning Futures. "We'll have a day of introduction. We'll have two days of questioning, Tuesday and Wednesday, and on [Oct. 15] we'll begin the markup. We’ll hold it over for a week, and we'll report her nomination out of the committee on Oct. 22," he continued. "Then it will be up to Sen. [Mitch] McConnell as to what to do with the nomination once it comes out of committee."
IMHO I think the Republicans know they are better off with getting another Justice on the SCOTUS and would sacrifice trump in a heartbeat. A conservative court effectively neuters the democratic party for a very long time. The FLP extremists can never win the hearts and minds of middle America.


Agreed with this post.

Optimally I'd like Trump to win and get to replace both Breyer and Thomas the next 4 years as well.

After that, have at it. The Republic would have been saved at that stage.
I guess as a political party you do what you can to throw a monkey wrench into the FLP agenda. Since the FLP agenda will almost certainly never float with middle America the best option they have for success is in the courts. POTUS is no real biggie in my mind anymore. A political party can have the prestige of having their guy/gal sitting in the oval office and having the bully pulpit. The dirty work of ramming agenda's through is done in the courts. trump could not even build a wall with all the static he got and having been shot down where??? In the courts. Think about it. :D


I'm with you on this post. I have always looked at SCOTUS as our one remaining firewall from FLP insanity.

Had the NeverTrump crowd helped Hillary get over the goal line (as it is, I think they actually cost anyone they promote votes; most people see them for who they are), they'd be the first ones screaming about how the FLP 'somehow' got into the courts and the country was ruined, even though they would have been mostly responsible. This is why you should never ever listen to NeverTrump.
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Brooklyn
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Re: SCOTUS

Post by Brooklyn »

Are you saying they interpret the law in accordance to their respective political parties? :?
delusional right wing judges sure do as everyone knows - if this judge had any principle she would decline the offer of the job and tell tRUMP to withdraw any possible nomination until after the election

but then, since when does the right wing have any prinicple?
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

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cradleandshoot
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Re: SCOTUS

Post by cradleandshoot »

I so very much appreciate the ignore function on this forum. :D :D :D It is similar to the oil filter in my car that prevents the bad stuff from getting into my engine.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
ggait
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Re: SCOTUS

Post by ggait »

As to the latter, I think originalism is bullsh*t -- it is a set up for outcome determinative thinking. Scalia himself made a mockery of originalism in Heller and Bush v. Gore. He was an adventurist in finding textual support for his preferred outcome, or in finding no text to get to other's outcomes.
Ding ding ding ding. We have a winner. Give that NJ Bill, Esq. a prize.

"Originalism", at best, was a reasonable mantle (maybe) to trade under during the 80s (as a reaction to the excesses of the Warren court and Roe). But today it is as dated and lame as mullets and Members Only jackets.

I challenge anyone to read Scalia vs. Breyer (dissent) in Heller and tell me Scalia convinces. Breyer opens up cans of originalist whoop ass on Scalia and completely dominates him. Scalia's majority opinion (like the majority in Roe) is just an activist politician/judge grasping for cover for his pre-determined policy outcome.

If there's a clear intended meaning for some part of the Constitution, then pretty much all judges will go with that. Problem is that the most important constitutional concepts ("due process", "equal protection") aren't clear at all. If the Constitution was a simple paint-by-numbers exercise, you wouldn't need all these fancy HYS Law grads to figure out the meaning. You could get a Google translate algorithm to do it much better and faster.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
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RedFromMI
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Re: SCOTUS

Post by RedFromMI »

From the Twitter account of Josh Marshall of TalkingPointsMemo.com news site:
I don’t know a lot about Amy Coney Barrett. But I know she’s accepting nomination from a President actively trying to subvert a national election and threatening to hold on to power by force, an attack on the constitution unparalleled in American history. Do I need to know more?
a fan
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Re: A civics question

Post by a fan »

cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:54 pm A conservative court effectively neuters the democratic party for a very long time.
I have to say that I'm at a total loss as to why conservatives think the Court is so important. The biggest cultural cases I can remember of late that they "won" was Hobby Lobby and that poor baker with a good heart in Colorado who forgot the #1 rule----G*d judges men, not men like him.

Wow. What HUGE victories. Condoms and cakes. :lol:

What cases do you think you'll "win"?
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:54 pm The FLP extremists can never win the hearts and minds of middle America.
They already have. Middle America just hasn't noticed.

-They already depend-----100%----on big government. They lost that battle, and lost it hard. The American independence pre-WWII is lost forever, never to return. Well unless, that is, Middle America is willing to get paid at the same rate that farmers in China are paid....

-Socialism. I've been on this one for years, as you know. What are the three biggest social events in flyover America? Local High School Football. State University Football. And State and County Fairs.

All government owned, planned, and operated activities. War's over. Socialism won. Roll Tide.

Ironically? The place where heartless capitalism thrives?......all those lib cities that Pete B. hates so much. Silicon Valley. NYC. SF. :lol:

America is a big hot bowl of contradictions and ironies. Trump's taxes are case in point: why would a nation that prides itself as the heart of capitalism reward Trump's incompetent business failures with no taxes....and hammer a successful business like mine with taxes in the six and seven figure range, annually? :lol: ;)
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cradleandshoot
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Re: A civics question

Post by cradleandshoot »

a fan wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:28 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:54 pm A conservative court effectively neuters the democratic party for a very long time.
I have to say that I'm at a total loss as to why conservatives think the Court is so important. The biggest cultural cases I can remember of late that they "won" was Hobby Lobby and that poor baker with a good heart in Colorado who forgot the #1 rule----G*d judges men, not men like him.

Wow. What HUGE victories. Condoms and cakes. :lol:

What cases do you think you'll "win"?
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:54 pm The FLP extremists can never win the hearts and minds of middle America.
They already have. Middle America just hasn't noticed.

-They already depend-----100%----on big government. They lost that battle, and lost it hard. The American independence pre-WWII is lost forever, never to return. Well unless, that is, Middle America is willing to get paid at the same rate that farmers in China are paid....

-Socialism. I've been on this one for years, as you know. What are the three biggest social events in flyover America? Local High School Football. State University Football. And State and County Fairs.

All government owned, planned, and operated activities. War's over. Socialism won. Roll Tide.

Ironically? The place where heartless capitalism thrives?......all those lib cities that Pete B. hates so much. Silicon Valley. NYC. SF. :lol:

America is a big hot bowl of contradictions and ironies. Trump's taxes are case in point: why would a nation that prides itself as the heart of capitalism reward Trump's incompetent business failures with no taxes....and hammer a successful business like mine with taxes in the six and seven figure range, annually? :lol: ;)

"What cases do you think you'll "win"? "

I will not win anything, this is not personal to me. I am speaking in regards to any new major democratic legislation. You think the dems will win in the SCOTUS if they have to rule on a new single payer health care system?

"All government owned, planned, and operated activities. War's over. Socialism won. Roll Tide."

What you consider socialism, and we have discussed this before, I consider it the politicians at the federal and state levels spending the money I pay in taxes on what they deem important. If your going to nitpick then every single penny that all of us pay is all just rampant socialism also know to some as federal spending. ;) That could mean 20 billion to farmers, 50 billion for more planes, or 100 billion for better roads, or 200 billion for better schools. We are dealing with semantics here. Socialist spending or federal spending? You decide whatever you want to call it.
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Peter Brown
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Re: A civics question

Post by Peter Brown »

a fan wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:28 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:54 pm A conservative court effectively neuters the democratic party for a very long time.
I have to say that I'm at a total loss as to why conservatives think the Court is so important. The biggest cultural cases I can remember of late that they "won" was Hobby Lobby and that poor baker with a good heart in Colorado who forgot the #1 rule----G*d judges men, not men like him.

Wow. What HUGE victories. Condoms and cakes. :lol:

What cases do you think you'll "win"?
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:54 pm The FLP extremists can never win the hearts and minds of middle America.
They already have. Middle America just hasn't noticed.

-They already depend-----100%----on big government. They lost that battle, and lost it hard. The American independence pre-WWII is lost forever, never to return. Well unless, that is, Middle America is willing to get paid at the same rate that farmers in China are paid....

-Socialism. I've been on this one for years, as you know. What are the three biggest social events in flyover America? Local High School Football. State University Football. And State and County Fairs.

All government owned, planned, and operated activities. War's over. Socialism won. Roll Tide.

Ironically? The place where heartless capitalism thrives?......all those lib cities that Pete B. hates so much. Silicon Valley. NYC. SF. :lol:

America is a big hot bowl of contradictions and ironies. Trump's taxes are case in point: why would a nation that prides itself as the heart of capitalism reward Trump's incompetent business failures with no taxes....and hammer a successful business like mine with taxes in the six and seven figure range, annually? :lol: ;)


Dude, your posts are getting more moronic as the election approaches.

You think SCOTUS only focuses on cultural issues? :lol:

The vast majority of their cases are too vanilla for media to report on, even the lib lawyers here like gait and njbill would agree. Their cases more often than not include issues of business (contracts, employment, and property), issues near and dear to the heart of an actual conservative like me.
kramerica.inc
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Re: SCOTUS

Post by kramerica.inc »

If SCOTUS doesn't matter to the Dems, why the canonization of RBG, and the ire for Mitch last go-round?

:idea:
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: SCOTUS

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

59% of Americans, including 59% of Independents, think the next President should make the pick. But only 17% of Republicans agree.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/23/politics ... index.html
Peter Brown
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Re: SCOTUS

Post by Peter Brown »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:59 am 59% of Americans, including 59% of Independents, think the next President should make the pick. But only 17% of Republicans agree.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/23/politics ... index.html



They didn't quiz me or 6ft.

Don't our live matter?
Peter Brown
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Re: SCOTUS

Post by Peter Brown »

kramerica.inc wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:58 am If SCOTUS doesn't matter to the Dems, why the canonization of RBG, and the ire for Mitch last go-round?

:idea:


Libs and Dems and even NeverTrumpers revere politics as their godsend right to steal money from private taxpayers.

Some of them are starting to wake up to the fact that SCOTUS is the last firewall between America and Venezuela, their end game. Libs (like locusts) have ruined so many other institutions already, such as schools where they teach non-biology non-facts such as babies can have multiple genders.

Now they turn their attention to SCOTUS. They need to ruin that too. As they burn down cities and loot stores.
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Re: A civics question

Post by a fan »

Peter Brown wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:55 am The vast majority of their cases are too vanilla for media to report on, even the lib lawyers here like gait and njbill would agree. Their cases more often than not include issues of business (contracts, employment, and property), issues near and dear to the heart of an actual conservative like me.
Yeah, silly me....the moron who asks questions. And you, the genius who always runs away when he can't answer questions.

Name three recent rulings you liked, and why. Then I'll be happy to believe you that the Court actually matters.
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Re: SCOTUS

Post by dislaxxic »

The Contempt of “Notorious ACB”

"Amid all of this grief, we are now subject to a turn to parody that is also cruelty. The White House rollout of Amy Coney Barrett as candidate for the seat has gone beyond erasing Justice Ginsburg’s legacy—they are stealing the trappings of that legacy and stripping it for parts. On Trump’s orders, CNN reported, the Rose Garden was deliberately done up to mirror precisely Bill Clinton’s announcement of Ginsburg’s nomination. There are now grotesque GOP T-shirts that imply that 60 years of unprecedented and brilliant legal advocacy by Ginsburg could simply be re-appropriated by someone else because she too is a woman in possession of three names. This comedic implication—that Judge Barrett is the natural inheritor of Ginsburg’s legacy—is depraved. As Donald Trump explained when he introduced her, Barrett’s work to dismantle Ginsburg’s legacy in abortion, health care, discrimination, and gun rights is to be construed as pro-women simply because a woman will be doing it. Even Judge Barrett’s own remarks relied on coopting Ginsburg’s reputation and legacy, as if the fact that one’s husband is the better cook is the only hallmark of female empowerment. Lack of originality is the hallmark of this administration: Like the Trump’s inauguration cake or Melania’s stolen convention speech, they routinely steal good things and then brazenly and cheaply repurpose them for opposing ends. It is infuriating not only because it is rank, immature trolling—it is infuriating because it is also a form of contempt."

..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
Peter Brown
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Re: A civics question

Post by Peter Brown »

a fan wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:17 am
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:55 am The vast majority of their cases are too vanilla for media to report on, even the lib lawyers here like gait and njbill would agree. Their cases more often than not include issues of business (contracts, employment, and property), issues near and dear to the heart of an actual conservative like me.
Yeah, silly me....the moron who asks questions. And you, the genius who always runs away when he can't answer questions.

Name three recent rulings you liked, and why. Then I'll be happy to believe you that the Court actually matters.



Let me give you one which you never heard of, but I did. And you can study it to your heart's content to learn about how this court manifestly protects property rights:

Knick v. Township of Scott, Pennsylvania

And yeah, this matters, a LOT.
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Re: A civics question

Post by a fan »

cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:41 am What you consider socialism, and we have discussed this before, I consider it the politicians at the federal and state levels spending the money I pay in taxes on what they deem important.
It's not what I consider socialism. It's what the dictionary considers socialism.

It's a very, very simple definition: does the government own and operate the asset in question? If the answer is yes to both, then it's socialism. Simple. Public University, or HS is socialism. A private school is not. Simple.

So the Covid bailouts to private businesses? Has nothing to do with socialism. That was just a handout. But the Tennessee Valley Authority? That's a power company owned by they State of Tennessee? Socialism.

It's really quite uncomplicated. Republicans have been telling us that they're vehemently against socialism.

Either they are liars.....or they are illiterate, and can't figure out how to use a dictionary. I choose the former.
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Re: A civics question

Post by a fan »

Peter Brown wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:20 am Let me give you one which you never heard of, but I did. And you can study it to your heart's content to learn about how this court manifestly protects property rights:

Knick v. Township of Scott, Pennsylvania
You didn't tell what you liked about the ruling.

And Federal rights trumping State's rights is ok with you?

This is a pretty severe ruling, with some potentially nutty unintended consequences. If my distillery is rezoned----or heck, zoned incorrectly----, or messed with in nearly any way by the State or City of Denver...and that change affects me financially, I'm off to Federal Court. You SURE that's a good idea?
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