2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

[MDlaxfan76]

Let's not get into Shrub's "military experience" too awful far. We filled up LP threads arguing about this years ago...the ANG "service" Shrub didn't want to talk much about was reportedly in his cocaine phase and involved a very likely episode of going AWOL...a story that was attacked unceasingly as unfair and inaccurate by the very same folks who felt it was just fine to SwiftBoat attack John Kerry's war record...a tale full of hypocrisy and obfuscation that also included the de-frocking of then CBS anchor Dan Rather.

Mayor Pete FAR outshines Shrub, the (now second-) worst GOP president in history when it comes to military service...after Commander Bone Spurs.

..

Didn't BHO also go through his own personal "cocaine phase" ? Or was he just tinkering with a little nose candy back there in law school?
..the ANG "service" Shrub didn't want to talk much about was reportedly in his cocaine phase. What the heck is your point Bart? Your lame ass on your very best day never gave you the smarts to be a fighter pilot. What the heck were you doing when GWB was flying supersonic jet fighters? Playing with your dingus back in college and playing really tough games of scrabble? Probably doing both at the same time. You are certainly multi talented sir.


There I go being hostile again... Sorry MD

At least you recognize it.
How about just making your points without the hostility?

I'll speak for myself on service, as I did not serve.
I grew up assuming I would be going to Vietnam, would certainly not have avoided it, and that view became stronger even as it became clear how awful the situation was and even when it became clear that the brass were lying about body counts (which was disgraceful). But I felt it would be my duty, in a time of war, to enlist, regardless of draft #.

But the war ended, then the draft ended, and in my 18th year there wasn't even a # issued for our age.

I went to college, married, then to work then to B-school, with none of those years with any call from our country for more service members. Had there been, no question.

It made me furious when veterans were ill-treated by their fellow Americans. Even now, my eyes tear up when I think about or watch a movie or documentary about the sacrifices our military people made during that era (and in other eras in which they put themselves in harm's way). But to be disrespected by their fellow Americans, disgraceful. Not that I don't understand the political opposition to the war, (heck many servicemen agreed!), but the disrespect for the individuals who served was an enormous mistake IMO.

I think it's pretty well established that W found a convenient way to avoid the war. But better path than Clinton. And enormously better than Trump's dishonorable path.

On Kerry, I'm not so sure the Swift Boat controversy was ever anything more than a hoax. I don't know for sure one way or the other. But I would suggest that anyone on here who thinks they actually know what happened better have actually been first hand witnesses themselves.

Here's where I come down, if you claimed 'bone spurs' to avoid service and refuse to produce a shred of basis for that claim, you're darn low in my book. And if your critique of a bona fide hero is to say 'I like people who weren't caught' or any other such dismissiveness of such trauma and sacrifice...then we know you have the lowest of low characters.

[old salt]

The MSM is all agog with Mayor Pete.
Might he be the boy king ?
Let's see if he pulls the sword from the stone.

[holmes435]

I suppose someone nearing 40 is still a boy? Certainly young compared to Trump who is the oldest president to ever be elected and is of questionable mental capacity. Young compared to some other D candidates who may eclipse Trump.

His celebrity is certainly less than a reality TV show star.

I know you're in half-jester mode but it just falls flat because the reality we have is such sadness.

[OCanada]

Kerry. All you have to do is look up his unit and find their history. He was a Navy Seal. The swift boat controversy was a steaming pile of BS to get even for his talking outside what police refer to as the thin blue line.

[foreverlax]

Anti-gay protesters shout about Sodom and Gomorrah at Pete Buttigieg rally in Iowa

Buttigieg's response is notable: "The condition of my soul is in the hands of God, but the Iowa caucuses are up to you."

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

[a fan]

The MSM is all agog with Trump
Might he be the boy king ?
Let's see if he pulls the sword from the stone.

Fixed it for you. Remember, Trump was an outsider that was supposed to drain the swamp, and help his forgotten voter. He's the one evangelicals are claiming God chose to be our President.

Whoops.

[cradleandshoot]

Let's not get into Shrub's "military experience" too awful far. We filled up LP threads arguing about this years ago...the ANG "service" Shrub didn't want to talk much about was reportedly in his cocaine phase and involved a very likely episode of going AWOL...a story that was attacked unceasingly as unfair and inaccurate by the very same folks who felt it was just fine to SwiftBoat attack John Kerry's war record...a tale full of hypocrisy and obfuscation that also included the de-frocking of then CBS anchor Dan Rather.

Mayor Pete FAR outshines Shrub, the (now second-) worst GOP president in history when it comes to military service...after Commander Bone Spurs.

..

Didn't BHO also go through his own personal "cocaine phase" ? Or was he just tinkering with a little nose candy back there in law school?
..the ANG "service" Shrub didn't want to talk much about was reportedly in his cocaine phase. What the heck is your point Bart? Your lame ass on your very best day never gave you the smarts to be a fighter pilot. What the heck were you doing when GWB was flying supersonic jet fighters? Playing with your dingus back in college and playing really tough games of scrabble? Probably doing both at the same time. You are certainly multi talented sir.


There I go being hostile again... Sorry MD

At least you recognize it.
How about just making your points without the hostility?

I'll speak for myself on service, as I did not serve.
I grew up assuming I would be going to Vietnam, would certainly not have avoided it, and that view became stronger even as it became clear how awful the situation was and even when it became clear that the brass were lying about body counts (which was disgraceful). But I felt it would be my duty, in a time of war, to enlist, regardless of draft #.

But the war ended, then the draft ended, and in my 18th year there wasn't even a # issued for our age.

I went to college, married, then to work then to B-school, with none of those years with any call from our country for more service members. Had there been, no question.

It made me furious when veterans were ill-treated by their fellow Americans. Even now, my eyes tear up when I think about or watch a movie or documentary about the sacrifices our military people made during that era (and in other eras in which they put themselves in harm's way). But to be disrespected by their fellow Americans, disgraceful. Not that I don't understand the political opposition to the war, (heck many servicemen agreed!), but the disrespect for the individuals who served was an enormous mistake IMO.

I think it's pretty well established that W found a convenient way to avoid the war. But better path than Clinton. And enormously better than Trump's dishonorable path.

On Kerry, I'm not so sure the Swift Boat controversy was ever anything more than a hoax. I don't know for sure one way or the other. But I would suggest that anyone on here who thinks they actually know what happened better have actually been first hand witnesses themselves.

Here's where I come down, if you claimed 'bone spurs' to avoid service and refuse to produce a shred of basis for that claim, you're darn low in my book. And if your critique of a bona fide hero is to say 'I like people who weren't caught' or any other such dismissiveness of such trauma and sacrifice...then we know you have the lowest of low characters.

How about just making your points without the hostility? More often than not I do. My dad often said as he got older that he had less and less tolerance of stupid people. As far as this issue is concerned... I am my dad. When stupid people make stupid statements I will call them out in the only way I know how. You may not realize it MD because you view the world through your rose colored glasses and as the hippies said in the 60s that is all cool and groovy. I have zero tolerance for nonsense and there is a whole lot of that that goes on around here. If you want to play the game and be nice as apple pie, well then knock yourself out. That is not me and never will be. Popeye the sailor said it best... I am what I am and that's all that I am. Too late to change this old dog MD. My contempt, loathing and hatred of the US government goes beyond what you can comprehend. Don't worry about me because I will be fine. I made my peace with this along time ago. Why do you think my garden is my sanctuary? It is the best therapy I will ever know.

[MDlaxfan76]

Let's not get into Shrub's "military experience" too awful far. We filled up LP threads arguing about this years ago...the ANG "service" Shrub didn't want to talk much about was reportedly in his cocaine phase and involved a very likely episode of going AWOL...a story that was attacked unceasingly as unfair and inaccurate by the very same folks who felt it was just fine to SwiftBoat attack John Kerry's war record...a tale full of hypocrisy and obfuscation that also included the de-frocking of then CBS anchor Dan Rather.

Mayor Pete FAR outshines Shrub, the (now second-) worst GOP president in history when it comes to military service...after Commander Bone Spurs.

..

Didn't BHO also go through his own personal "cocaine phase" ? Or was he just tinkering with a little nose candy back there in law school?
..the ANG "service" Shrub didn't want to talk much about was reportedly in his cocaine phase. What the heck is your point Bart? Your lame ass on your very best day never gave you the smarts to be a fighter pilot. What the heck were you doing when GWB was flying supersonic jet fighters? Playing with your dingus back in college and playing really tough games of scrabble? Probably doing both at the same time. You are certainly multi talented sir.


There I go being hostile again... Sorry MD

At least you recognize it.
How about just making your points without the hostility?

I'll speak for myself on service, as I did not serve.
I grew up assuming I would be going to Vietnam, would certainly not have avoided it, and that view became stronger even as it became clear how awful the situation was and even when it became clear that the brass were lying about body counts (which was disgraceful). But I felt it would be my duty, in a time of war, to enlist, regardless of draft #.

But the war ended, then the draft ended, and in my 18th year there wasn't even a # issued for our age.

I went to college, married, then to work then to B-school, with none of those years with any call from our country for more service members. Had there been, no question.

It made me furious when veterans were ill-treated by their fellow Americans. Even now, my eyes tear up when I think about or watch a movie or documentary about the sacrifices our military people made during that era (and in other eras in which they put themselves in harm's way). But to be disrespected by their fellow Americans, disgraceful. Not that I don't understand the political opposition to the war, (heck many servicemen agreed!), but the disrespect for the individuals who served was an enormous mistake IMO.

I think it's pretty well established that W found a convenient way to avoid the war. But better path than Clinton. And enormously better than Trump's dishonorable path.

On Kerry, I'm not so sure the Swift Boat controversy was ever anything more than a hoax. I don't know for sure one way or the other. But I would suggest that anyone on here who thinks they actually know what happened better have actually been first hand witnesses themselves.

Here's where I come down, if you claimed 'bone spurs' to avoid service and refuse to produce a shred of basis for that claim, you're darn low in my book. And if your critique of a bona fide hero is to say 'I like people who weren't caught' or any other such dismissiveness of such trauma and sacrifice...then we know you have the lowest of low characters.

How about just making your points without the hostility? More often than not I do. My dad often said as he got older that he had less and less tolerance of stupid people. As far as this issue is concerned... I am my dad. When stupid people make stupid statements I will call them out in the only way I know how. You may not realize it MD because you view the world through your rose colored glasses and as the hippies said in the 60s that is all cool and groovy. I have zero tolerance for nonsense and there is a whole lot of that that goes on around here. If you want to play the game and be nice as apple pie, well then knock yourself out. That is not me and never will be. Popeye the sailor said it best... I am what I am and that's all that I am. Too late to change this old dog MD. My contempt, loathing and hatred of the US government goes beyond what you can comprehend. Don't worry about me because I will be fine. I made my peace with this along time ago. Why do you think my garden is my sanctuary? It is the best therapy I will ever know.

Am I "hostile" with you? Is that how I make my points?

Oh, you reversed course and now think I may be some hippy with rose colored glasses. Really doesn't fit me in the slightest, but I get it, you're flailing to try to insult me because you're darned sure you shouldn't be 'nice as apple pie'. As if being polite was somehow a weakness.

Ok, I'll try to say it with 'hostility' for a change:

Stop whining and grow the F up.

I asked you what any of your (whining) had to do with your hatred of the US government and everyone involved and you don't even bother to try to address the question. Nope, you're all righteous about how terrible some a-hole was and thus everyone else must be an a-hole too.

Grow up.

Actually, the above doesn't make me feel any better.
I'd much rather treat you with some respect and just press the discussion to be less about anger and more about substance.

Anytime you want to go that way too, your opinions will be listened to with respect in return.

[cradleandshoot]

Let's not get into Shrub's "military experience" too awful far. We filled up LP threads arguing about this years ago...the ANG "service" Shrub didn't want to talk much about was reportedly in his cocaine phase and involved a very likely episode of going AWOL...a story that was attacked unceasingly as unfair and inaccurate by the very same folks who felt it was just fine to SwiftBoat attack John Kerry's war record...a tale full of hypocrisy and obfuscation that also included the de-frocking of then CBS anchor Dan Rather.

Mayor Pete FAR outshines Shrub, the (now second-) worst GOP president in history when it comes to military service...after Commander Bone Spurs.

..

Didn't BHO also go through his own personal "cocaine phase" ? Or was he just tinkering with a little nose candy back there in law school?
..the ANG "service" Shrub didn't want to talk much about was reportedly in his cocaine phase. What the heck is your point Bart? Your lame ass on your very best day never gave you the smarts to be a fighter pilot. What the heck were you doing when GWB was flying supersonic jet fighters? Playing with your dingus back in college and playing really tough games of scrabble? Probably doing both at the same time. You are certainly multi talented sir.


There I go being hostile again... Sorry MD

At least you recognize it.
How about just making your points without the hostility?

I'll speak for myself on service, as I did not serve.
I grew up assuming I would be going to Vietnam, would certainly not have avoided it, and that view became stronger even as it became clear how awful the situation was and even when it became clear that the brass were lying about body counts (which was disgraceful). But I felt it would be my duty, in a time of war, to enlist, regardless of draft #.

But the war ended, then the draft ended, and in my 18th year there wasn't even a # issued for our age.

I went to college, married, then to work then to B-school, with none of those years with any call from our country for more service members. Had there been, no question.

It made me furious when veterans were ill-treated by their fellow Americans. Even now, my eyes tear up when I think about or watch a movie or documentary about the sacrifices our military people made during that era (and in other eras in which they put themselves in harm's way). But to be disrespected by their fellow Americans, disgraceful. Not that I don't understand the political opposition to the war, (heck many servicemen agreed!), but the disrespect for the individuals who served was an enormous mistake IMO.

I think it's pretty well established that W found a convenient way to avoid the war. But better path than Clinton. And enormously better than Trump's dishonorable path.

On Kerry, I'm not so sure the Swift Boat controversy was ever anything more than a hoax. I don't know for sure one way or the other. But I would suggest that anyone on here who thinks they actually know what happened better have actually been first hand witnesses themselves.

Here's where I come down, if you claimed 'bone spurs' to avoid service and refuse to produce a shred of basis for that claim, you're darn low in my book. And if your critique of a bona fide hero is to say 'I like people who weren't caught' or any other such dismissiveness of such trauma and sacrifice...then we know you have the lowest of low characters.

How about just making your points without the hostility? More often than not I do. My dad often said as he got older that he had less and less tolerance of stupid people. As far as this issue is concerned... I am my dad. When stupid people make stupid statements I will call them out in the only way I know how. You may not realize it MD because you view the world through your rose colored glasses and as the hippies said in the 60s that is all cool and groovy. I have zero tolerance for nonsense and there is a whole lot of that that goes on around here. If you want to play the game and be nice as apple pie, well then knock yourself out. That is not me and never will be. Popeye the sailor said it best... I am what I am and that's all that I am. Too late to change this old dog MD. My contempt, loathing and hatred of the US government goes beyond what you can comprehend. Don't worry about me because I will be fine. I made my peace with this along time ago. Why do you think my garden is my sanctuary? It is the best therapy I will ever know.

Am I "hostile" with you? Is that how I make my points?

Oh, you reversed course and now think I may be some hippy with rose colored glasses. Really doesn't fit me in the slightest, but I get it, you're flailing to try to insult me because you're darned sure you shouldn't be 'nice as apple pie'. As if being polite was somehow a weakness.

Ok, I'll try to say it with 'hostility' for a change:

Stop whining and grow the F up.

I asked you what any of your (whining) had to do with your hatred of the US government and everyone involved and you don't even bother to try to address the question. Nope, you're all righteous about how terrible some a-hole was and thus everyone else must be an a-hole too.

Grow up.

Actually, the above doesn't make me feel any better.
I'd much rather treat you with some respect and just press the discussion to be less about anger and more about substance.

Anytime you want to go that way too, your opinions will be listened to with respect in return.

I much prefer your hostility than long droning on lectures that you so often provide for us all. I can deal with hostility. Lectures only bore me to tears. Since you are giving me a choice please feel free to tell me f off all you want. That is a much better option than being lectured too.

[MDlaxfan76]

Let's not get into Shrub's "military experience" too awful far. We filled up LP threads arguing about this years ago...the ANG "service" Shrub didn't want to talk much about was reportedly in his cocaine phase and involved a very likely episode of going AWOL...a story that was attacked unceasingly as unfair and inaccurate by the very same folks who felt it was just fine to SwiftBoat attack John Kerry's war record...a tale full of hypocrisy and obfuscation that also included the de-frocking of then CBS anchor Dan Rather.

Mayor Pete FAR outshines Shrub, the (now second-) worst GOP president in history when it comes to military service...after Commander Bone Spurs.

..

Didn't BHO also go through his own personal "cocaine phase" ? Or was he just tinkering with a little nose candy back there in law school?
..the ANG "service" Shrub didn't want to talk much about was reportedly in his cocaine phase. What the heck is your point Bart? Your lame ass on your very best day never gave you the smarts to be a fighter pilot. What the heck were you doing when GWB was flying supersonic jet fighters? Playing with your dingus back in college and playing really tough games of scrabble? Probably doing both at the same time. You are certainly multi talented sir.


There I go being hostile again... Sorry MD

At least you recognize it.
How about just making your points without the hostility?

I'll speak for myself on service, as I did not serve.
I grew up assuming I would be going to Vietnam, would certainly not have avoided it, and that view became stronger even as it became clear how awful the situation was and even when it became clear that the brass were lying about body counts (which was disgraceful). But I felt it would be my duty, in a time of war, to enlist, regardless of draft #.

But the war ended, then the draft ended, and in my 18th year there wasn't even a # issued for our age.

I went to college, married, then to work then to B-school, with none of those years with any call from our country for more service members. Had there been, no question.

It made me furious when veterans were ill-treated by their fellow Americans. Even now, my eyes tear up when I think about or watch a movie or documentary about the sacrifices our military people made during that era (and in other eras in which they put themselves in harm's way). But to be disrespected by their fellow Americans, disgraceful. Not that I don't understand the political opposition to the war, (heck many servicemen agreed!), but the disrespect for the individuals who served was an enormous mistake IMO.

I think it's pretty well established that W found a convenient way to avoid the war. But better path than Clinton. And enormously better than Trump's dishonorable path.

On Kerry, I'm not so sure the Swift Boat controversy was ever anything more than a hoax. I don't know for sure one way or the other. But I would suggest that anyone on here who thinks they actually know what happened better have actually been first hand witnesses themselves.

Here's where I come down, if you claimed 'bone spurs' to avoid service and refuse to produce a shred of basis for that claim, you're darn low in my book. And if your critique of a bona fide hero is to say 'I like people who weren't caught' or any other such dismissiveness of such trauma and sacrifice...then we know you have the lowest of low characters.

How about just making your points without the hostility? More often than not I do. My dad often said as he got older that he had less and less tolerance of stupid people. As far as this issue is concerned... I am my dad. When stupid people make stupid statements I will call them out in the only way I know how. You may not realize it MD because you view the world through your rose colored glasses and as the hippies said in the 60s that is all cool and groovy. I have zero tolerance for nonsense and there is a whole lot of that that goes on around here. If you want to play the game and be nice as apple pie, well then knock yourself out. That is not me and never will be. Popeye the sailor said it best... I am what I am and that's all that I am. Too late to change this old dog MD. My contempt, loathing and hatred of the US government goes beyond what you can comprehend. Don't worry about me because I will be fine. I made my peace with this along time ago. Why do you think my garden is my sanctuary? It is the best therapy I will ever know.

Am I "hostile" with you? Is that how I make my points?

Oh, you reversed course and now think I may be some hippy with rose colored glasses. Really doesn't fit me in the slightest, but I get it, you're flailing to try to insult me because you're darned sure you shouldn't be 'nice as apple pie'. As if being polite was somehow a weakness.

Ok, I'll try to say it with 'hostility' for a change:

Stop whining and grow the F up.

I asked you what any of your (whining) had to do with your hatred of the US government and everyone involved and you don't even bother to try to address the question. Nope, you're all righteous about how terrible some a-hole was and thus everyone else must be an a-hole too.

Grow up.

Actually, the above doesn't make me feel any better.
I'd much rather treat you with some respect and just press the discussion to be less about anger and more about substance.

Anytime you want to go that way too, your opinions will be listened to with respect in return.

I much prefer your hostility than long droning on lectures that you so often provide for us all. I can deal with hostility. Lectures only bore me to tears. Since you are giving me a choice please feel free to tell me f off all you want. That is a much better option than being lectured too.

Here's a simple binary choice,

a) Treat opposing opinions and people with hostility and hyperbole, and you'll get no respect.

b) Treat opposing opinions and people with respect and real consideration, and you'll get respect and consideration in return.

Up to you.

[genesrfree]

[

Buttigieg's response is notable: "The condition of my soul is in the hands of God, but the Iowa caucuses are up to you."

No Pete, the results of the Iowa caucuses are up to God as well, read His Word!!!

[a fan]

Uh oh. That means man doesn't have free will.

There goes the New Testament, as well as sin.

[cradleandshoot]

Let's not get into Shrub's "military experience" too awful far. We filled up LP threads arguing about this years ago...the ANG "service" Shrub didn't want to talk much about was reportedly in his cocaine phase and involved a very likely episode of going AWOL...a story that was attacked unceasingly as unfair and inaccurate by the very same folks who felt it was just fine to SwiftBoat attack John Kerry's war record...a tale full of hypocrisy and obfuscation that also included the de-frocking of then CBS anchor Dan Rather.

Mayor Pete FAR outshines Shrub, the (now second-) worst GOP president in history when it comes to military service...after Commander Bone Spurs.

..

Didn't BHO also go through his own personal "cocaine phase" ? Or was he just tinkering with a little nose candy back there in law school?
..the ANG "service" Shrub didn't want to talk much about was reportedly in his cocaine phase. What the heck is your point Bart? Your lame ass on your very best day never gave you the smarts to be a fighter pilot. What the heck were you doing when GWB was flying supersonic jet fighters? Playing with your dingus back in college and playing really tough games of scrabble? Probably doing both at the same time. You are certainly multi talented sir.


There I go being hostile again... Sorry MD

At least you recognize it.
How about just making your points without the hostility?

I'll speak for myself on service, as I did not serve.
I grew up assuming I would be going to Vietnam, would certainly not have avoided it, and that view became stronger even as it became clear how awful the situation was and even when it became clear that the brass were lying about body counts (which was disgraceful). But I felt it would be my duty, in a time of war, to enlist, regardless of draft #.

But the war ended, then the draft ended, and in my 18th year there wasn't even a # issued for our age.

I went to college, married, then to work then to B-school, with none of those years with any call from our country for more service members. Had there been, no question.

It made me furious when veterans were ill-treated by their fellow Americans. Even now, my eyes tear up when I think about or watch a movie or documentary about the sacrifices our military people made during that era (and in other eras in which they put themselves in harm's way). But to be disrespected by their fellow Americans, disgraceful. Not that I don't understand the political opposition to the war, (heck many servicemen agreed!), but the disrespect for the individuals who served was an enormous mistake IMO.

I think it's pretty well established that W found a convenient way to avoid the war. But better path than Clinton. And enormously better than Trump's dishonorable path.

On Kerry, I'm not so sure the Swift Boat controversy was ever anything more than a hoax. I don't know for sure one way or the other. But I would suggest that anyone on here who thinks they actually know what happened better have actually been first hand witnesses themselves.

Here's where I come down, if you claimed 'bone spurs' to avoid service and refuse to produce a shred of basis for that claim, you're darn low in my book. And if your critique of a bona fide hero is to say 'I like people who weren't caught' or any other such dismissiveness of such trauma and sacrifice...then we know you have the lowest of low characters.

How about just making your points without the hostility? More often than not I do. My dad often said as he got older that he had less and less tolerance of stupid people. As far as this issue is concerned... I am my dad. When stupid people make stupid statements I will call them out in the only way I know how. You may not realize it MD because you view the world through your rose colored glasses and as the hippies said in the 60s that is all cool and groovy. I have zero tolerance for nonsense and there is a whole lot of that that goes on around here. If you want to play the game and be nice as apple pie, well then knock yourself out. That is not me and never will be. Popeye the sailor said it best... I am what I am and that's all that I am. Too late to change this old dog MD. My contempt, loathing and hatred of the US government goes beyond what you can comprehend. Don't worry about me because I will be fine. I made my peace with this along time ago. Why do you think my garden is my sanctuary? It is the best therapy I will ever know.

Am I "hostile" with you? Is that how I make my points?

Oh, you reversed course and now think I may be some hippy with rose colored glasses. Really doesn't fit me in the slightest, but I get it, you're flailing to try to insult me because you're darned sure you shouldn't be 'nice as apple pie'. As if being polite was somehow a weakness.

Ok, I'll try to say it with 'hostility' for a change:

Stop whining and grow the F up.

I asked you what any of your (whining) had to do with your hatred of the US government and everyone involved and you don't even bother to try to address the question. Nope, you're all righteous about how terrible some a-hole was and thus everyone else must be an a-hole too.

Grow up.

Actually, the above doesn't make me feel any better.
I'd much rather treat you with some respect and just press the discussion to be less about anger and more about substance.

Anytime you want to go that way too, your opinions will be listened to with respect in return.

I much prefer your hostility than long droning on lectures that you so often provide for us all. I can deal with hostility. Lectures only bore me to tears. Since you are giving me a choice please feel free to tell me f off all you want. That is a much better option than being lectured too.

Here's a simple binary choice,

a) Treat opposing opinions and people with hostility and hyperbole, and you'll get no respect.

b) Treat opposing opinions and people with respect and real consideration, and you'll get respect and consideration in return.

Up to you.

Is that the same standard you use for some of the folks on this forum that mock and ridicule old salt? Do you have your head so far up your backside that you never read the insults tossed at old salt? Never ever heard you criticize those folks. Why, is that because their criticism is to your liking? For the record OS does not need any one to defend his point of view. He is a very smart guy who speaks way nicer than I ever will. I will make a deal with you MD. When you expand your horizons and become willing and able to criticize all the people on this forum, I will respond in kind. In case you have not noticed, and I won't mention names, there are a lot of people on this forum with very nasty and mean spirited opinions. Why don't you call them out as well? Maybe you are inflicted with selective outrage only at certain people with a point of view you disagree with.

[MDlaxfan76]

Let's not get into Shrub's "military experience" too awful far. We filled up LP threads arguing about this years ago...the ANG "service" Shrub didn't want to talk much about was reportedly in his cocaine phase and involved a very likely episode of going AWOL...a story that was attacked unceasingly as unfair and inaccurate by the very same folks who felt it was just fine to SwiftBoat attack John Kerry's war record...a tale full of hypocrisy and obfuscation that also included the de-frocking of then CBS anchor Dan Rather.

Mayor Pete FAR outshines Shrub, the (now second-) worst GOP president in history when it comes to military service...after Commander Bone Spurs.

..

Didn't BHO also go through his own personal "cocaine phase" ? Or was he just tinkering with a little nose candy back there in law school?
..the ANG "service" Shrub didn't want to talk much about was reportedly in his cocaine phase. What the heck is your point Bart? Your lame ass on your very best day never gave you the smarts to be a fighter pilot. What the heck were you doing when GWB was flying supersonic jet fighters? Playing with your dingus back in college and playing really tough games of scrabble? Probably doing both at the same time. You are certainly multi talented sir.


There I go being hostile again... Sorry MD

At least you recognize it.
How about just making your points without the hostility?

I'll speak for myself on service, as I did not serve.
I grew up assuming I would be going to Vietnam, would certainly not have avoided it, and that view became stronger even as it became clear how awful the situation was and even when it became clear that the brass were lying about body counts (which was disgraceful). But I felt it would be my duty, in a time of war, to enlist, regardless of draft #.

But the war ended, then the draft ended, and in my 18th year there wasn't even a # issued for our age.

I went to college, married, then to work then to B-school, with none of those years with any call from our country for more service members. Had there been, no question.

It made me furious when veterans were ill-treated by their fellow Americans. Even now, my eyes tear up when I think about or watch a movie or documentary about the sacrifices our military people made during that era (and in other eras in which they put themselves in harm's way). But to be disrespected by their fellow Americans, disgraceful. Not that I don't understand the political opposition to the war, (heck many servicemen agreed!), but the disrespect for the individuals who served was an enormous mistake IMO.

I think it's pretty well established that W found a convenient way to avoid the war. But better path than Clinton. And enormously better than Trump's dishonorable path.

On Kerry, I'm not so sure the Swift Boat controversy was ever anything more than a hoax. I don't know for sure one way or the other. But I would suggest that anyone on here who thinks they actually know what happened better have actually been first hand witnesses themselves.

Here's where I come down, if you claimed 'bone spurs' to avoid service and refuse to produce a shred of basis for that claim, you're darn low in my book. And if your critique of a bona fide hero is to say 'I like people who weren't caught' or any other such dismissiveness of such trauma and sacrifice...then we know you have the lowest of low characters.

How about just making your points without the hostility? More often than not I do. My dad often said as he got older that he had less and less tolerance of stupid people. As far as this issue is concerned... I am my dad. When stupid people make stupid statements I will call them out in the only way I know how. You may not realize it MD because you view the world through your rose colored glasses and as the hippies said in the 60s that is all cool and groovy. I have zero tolerance for nonsense and there is a whole lot of that that goes on around here. If you want to play the game and be nice as apple pie, well then knock yourself out. That is not me and never will be. Popeye the sailor said it best... I am what I am and that's all that I am. Too late to change this old dog MD. My contempt, loathing and hatred of the US government goes beyond what you can comprehend. Don't worry about me because I will be fine. I made my peace with this along time ago. Why do you think my garden is my sanctuary? It is the best therapy I will ever know.

Am I "hostile" with you? Is that how I make my points?

Oh, you reversed course and now think I may be some hippy with rose colored glasses. Really doesn't fit me in the slightest, but I get it, you're flailing to try to insult me because you're darned sure you shouldn't be 'nice as apple pie'. As if being polite was somehow a weakness.

Ok, I'll try to say it with 'hostility' for a change:

Stop whining and grow the F up.

I asked you what any of your (whining) had to do with your hatred of the US government and everyone involved and you don't even bother to try to address the question. Nope, you're all righteous about how terrible some a-hole was and thus everyone else must be an a-hole too.

Grow up.

Actually, the above doesn't make me feel any better.
I'd much rather treat you with some respect and just press the discussion to be less about anger and more about substance.

Anytime you want to go that way too, your opinions will be listened to with respect in return.

I much prefer your hostility than long droning on lectures that you so often provide for us all. I can deal with hostility. Lectures only bore me to tears. Since you are giving me a choice please feel free to tell me f off all you want. That is a much better option than being lectured too.

Here's a simple binary choice,

a) Treat opposing opinions and people with hostility and hyperbole, and you'll get no respect.

b) Treat opposing opinions and people with respect and real consideration, and you'll get respect and consideration in return.

Up to you.

Is that the same standard you use for some of the folks on this forum that mock and ridicule old salt? Do you have your head so far up your backside that you never read the insults tossed at old salt? Never ever heard you criticize those folks. Why, is that because their criticism is to your liking? For the record OS does not need any one to defend his point of view. He is a very smart guy who speaks way nicer than I ever will. I will make a deal with you MD. When you expand your horizons and become willing and able to criticize all the people on this forum, I will respond in kind. In case you have not noticed, and I won't mention names, there are a lot of people on this forum with very nasty and mean spirited opinions. Why don't you call them out as well? Maybe you are inflicted with selective outrage only at certain people with a point of view you disagree with.

There's a lot I would agree with in this rant, most particularly that Salty is a smart guy who sure as heck doesn't need your defense, nor mine.

I think he's looney tunes at times, but he does offer up all sorts of info I find interesting and he presents his views quite rationally. Often I find his logic to be circular, but I could say that of lots of us at times.

I'm pretty sure that 98% of the time I treat Salty with a modicum of respect and civility. I do get a bit exasperated with him at times, but don't recall losing my cool. But I may have.

But you're right, he can handle the back and forth for himself.

[MDlaxfan76]

Uh oh. That means man doesn't have free will.

There goes the New Testament, as well as sin.

Sheesh, a fan, you actually have read/studied this stuff for yourself?

I often wonder whether some folks who purport to be 'religious' actually have a clue.

(I'm not making that assumption about you genesfree, you were probably just being ironic).

[cradleandshoot]

Let's not get into Shrub's "military experience" too awful far. We filled up LP threads arguing about this years ago...the ANG "service" Shrub didn't want to talk much about was reportedly in his cocaine phase and involved a very likely episode of going AWOL...a story that was attacked unceasingly as unfair and inaccurate by the very same folks who felt it was just fine to SwiftBoat attack John Kerry's war record...a tale full of hypocrisy and obfuscation that also included the de-frocking of then CBS anchor Dan Rather.

Mayor Pete FAR outshines Shrub, the (now second-) worst GOP president in history when it comes to military service...after Commander Bone Spurs.

..

Didn't BHO also go through his own personal "cocaine phase" ? Or was he just tinkering with a little nose candy back there in law school?
..the ANG "service" Shrub didn't want to talk much about was reportedly in his cocaine phase. What the heck is your point Bart? Your lame ass on your very best day never gave you the smarts to be a fighter pilot. What the heck were you doing when GWB was flying supersonic jet fighters? Playing with your dingus back in college and playing really tough games of scrabble? Probably doing both at the same time. You are certainly multi talented sir.


There I go being hostile again... Sorry MD

At least you recognize it.
How about just making your points without the hostility?

I'll speak for myself on service, as I did not serve.
I grew up assuming I would be going to Vietnam, would certainly not have avoided it, and that view became stronger even as it became clear how awful the situation was and even when it became clear that the brass were lying about body counts (which was disgraceful). But I felt it would be my duty, in a time of war, to enlist, regardless of draft #.

But the war ended, then the draft ended, and in my 18th year there wasn't even a # issued for our age.

I went to college, married, then to work then to B-school, with none of those years with any call from our country for more service members. Had there been, no question.

It made me furious when veterans were ill-treated by their fellow Americans. Even now, my eyes tear up when I think about or watch a movie or documentary about the sacrifices our military people made during that era (and in other eras in which they put themselves in harm's way). But to be disrespected by their fellow Americans, disgraceful. Not that I don't understand the political opposition to the war, (heck many servicemen agreed!), but the disrespect for the individuals who served was an enormous mistake IMO.

I think it's pretty well established that W found a convenient way to avoid the war. But better path than Clinton. And enormously better than Trump's dishonorable path.

On Kerry, I'm not so sure the Swift Boat controversy was ever anything more than a hoax. I don't know for sure one way or the other. But I would suggest that anyone on here who thinks they actually know what happened better have actually been first hand witnesses themselves.

Here's where I come down, if you claimed 'bone spurs' to avoid service and refuse to produce a shred of basis for that claim, you're darn low in my book. And if your critique of a bona fide hero is to say 'I like people who weren't caught' or any other such dismissiveness of such trauma and sacrifice...then we know you have the lowest of low characters.

How about just making your points without the hostility? More often than not I do. My dad often said as he got older that he had less and less tolerance of stupid people. As far as this issue is concerned... I am my dad. When stupid people make stupid statements I will call them out in the only way I know how. You may not realize it MD because you view the world through your rose colored glasses and as the hippies said in the 60s that is all cool and groovy. I have zero tolerance for nonsense and there is a whole lot of that that goes on around here. If you want to play the game and be nice as apple pie, well then knock yourself out. That is not me and never will be. Popeye the sailor said it best... I am what I am and that's all that I am. Too late to change this old dog MD. My contempt, loathing and hatred of the US government goes beyond what you can comprehend. Don't worry about me because I will be fine. I made my peace with this along time ago. Why do you think my garden is my sanctuary? It is the best therapy I will ever know.

Am I "hostile" with you? Is that how I make my points?

Oh, you reversed course and now think I may be some hippy with rose colored glasses. Really doesn't fit me in the slightest, but I get it, you're flailing to try to insult me because you're darned sure you shouldn't be 'nice as apple pie'. As if being polite was somehow a weakness.

Ok, I'll try to say it with 'hostility' for a change:

Stop whining and grow the F up.

I asked you what any of your (whining) had to do with your hatred of the US government and everyone involved and you don't even bother to try to address the question. Nope, you're all righteous about how terrible some a-hole was and thus everyone else must be an a-hole too.

Grow up.

Actually, the above doesn't make me feel any better.
I'd much rather treat you with some respect and just press the discussion to be less about anger and more about substance.

Anytime you want to go that way too, your opinions will be listened to with respect in return.

I much prefer your hostility than long droning on lectures that you so often provide for us all. I can deal with hostility. Lectures only bore me to tears. Since you are giving me a choice please feel free to tell me f off all you want. That is a much better option than being lectured too.

Here's a simple binary choice,

a) Treat opposing opinions and people with hostility and hyperbole, and you'll get no respect.

b) Treat opposing opinions and people with respect and real consideration, and you'll get respect and consideration in return.

Up to you.

Is that the same standard you use for some of the folks on this forum that mock and ridicule old salt? Do you have your head so far up your backside that you never read the insults tossed at old salt? Never ever heard you criticize those folks. Why, is that because their criticism is to your liking? For the record OS does not need any one to defend his point of view. He is a very smart guy who speaks way nicer than I ever will. I will make a deal with you MD. When you expand your horizons and become willing and able to criticize all the people on this forum, I will respond in kind. In case you have not noticed, and I won't mention names, there are a lot of people on this forum with very nasty and mean spirited opinions. Why don't you call them out as well? Maybe you are inflicted with selective outrage only at certain people with a point of view you disagree with.

There's a lot I would agree with in this rant, most particularly that Salty is a smart guy who sure as heck doesn't need your defense, nor mine.

I think he's looney tunes at times, but he does offer up all sorts of info I find interesting and he presents his views quite rationally. Often I find his logic to be circular, but I could say that of lots of us at times.

I'm pretty sure that 98% of the time I treat Salty with a modicum of respect and civility. I do get a bit exasperated with him at times, but don't recall losing my cool. But I may have.

But you're right, he can handle the back and forth for himself.

Very interesting MD. My post was a rant in your opinion? You must not have any understanding about what a rant really is. I am also certain that Old Salt gets exasperated at some folks here also. My point was that you ignored was why do you never call out the people who insult and degrade him quite frequently? The gist of my rant was why you are so persnickety about who you are critical of and who you are willing to give a pass to. If you are going to claim the moral high ground here you should at least learn to be consistent in your beliefs. There are quite a few people who are not very nice around here. There was a post here a couple of days ago from an esteemed PhD type who made a crude comment about Bob Barr swallowing sperm. Is that also offensive to you? If you read did it give you a chuckle? I have no problem any time you want to call me out. I only hope that someday you grow a bigger set of balls and apply your same standards to everyone that posts here. After all would that not be fair.

[MDlaxfan76]

Let's not get into Shrub's "military experience" too awful far. We filled up LP threads arguing about this years ago...the ANG "service" Shrub didn't want to talk much about was reportedly in his cocaine phase and involved a very likely episode of going AWOL...a story that was attacked unceasingly as unfair and inaccurate by the very same folks who felt it was just fine to SwiftBoat attack John Kerry's war record...a tale full of hypocrisy and obfuscation that also included the de-frocking of then CBS anchor Dan Rather.

Mayor Pete FAR outshines Shrub, the (now second-) worst GOP president in history when it comes to military service...after Commander Bone Spurs.

..

Didn't BHO also go through his own personal "cocaine phase" ? Or was he just tinkering with a little nose candy back there in law school?
..the ANG "service" Shrub didn't want to talk much about was reportedly in his cocaine phase. What the heck is your point Bart? Your lame ass on your very best day never gave you the smarts to be a fighter pilot. What the heck were you doing when GWB was flying supersonic jet fighters? Playing with your dingus back in college and playing really tough games of scrabble? Probably doing both at the same time. You are certainly multi talented sir.


There I go being hostile again... Sorry MD

At least you recognize it.
How about just making your points without the hostility?

I'll speak for myself on service, as I did not serve.
I grew up assuming I would be going to Vietnam, would certainly not have avoided it, and that view became stronger even as it became clear how awful the situation was and even when it became clear that the brass were lying about body counts (which was disgraceful). But I felt it would be my duty, in a time of war, to enlist, regardless of draft #.

But the war ended, then the draft ended, and in my 18th year there wasn't even a # issued for our age.

I went to college, married, then to work then to B-school, with none of those years with any call from our country for more service members. Had there been, no question.

It made me furious when veterans were ill-treated by their fellow Americans. Even now, my eyes tear up when I think about or watch a movie or documentary about the sacrifices our military people made during that era (and in other eras in which they put themselves in harm's way). But to be disrespected by their fellow Americans, disgraceful. Not that I don't understand the political opposition to the war, (heck many servicemen agreed!), but the disrespect for the individuals who served was an enormous mistake IMO.

I think it's pretty well established that W found a convenient way to avoid the war. But better path than Clinton. And enormously better than Trump's dishonorable path.

On Kerry, I'm not so sure the Swift Boat controversy was ever anything more than a hoax. I don't know for sure one way or the other. But I would suggest that anyone on here who thinks they actually know what happened better have actually been first hand witnesses themselves.

Here's where I come down, if you claimed 'bone spurs' to avoid service and refuse to produce a shred of basis for that claim, you're darn low in my book. And if your critique of a bona fide hero is to say 'I like people who weren't caught' or any other such dismissiveness of such trauma and sacrifice...then we know you have the lowest of low characters.

How about just making your points without the hostility? More often than not I do. My dad often said as he got older that he had less and less tolerance of stupid people. As far as this issue is concerned... I am my dad. When stupid people make stupid statements I will call them out in the only way I know how. You may not realize it MD because you view the world through your rose colored glasses and as the hippies said in the 60s that is all cool and groovy. I have zero tolerance for nonsense and there is a whole lot of that that goes on around here. If you want to play the game and be nice as apple pie, well then knock yourself out. That is not me and never will be. Popeye the sailor said it best... I am what I am and that's all that I am. Too late to change this old dog MD. My contempt, loathing and hatred of the US government goes beyond what you can comprehend. Don't worry about me because I will be fine. I made my peace with this along time ago. Why do you think my garden is my sanctuary? It is the best therapy I will ever know.

Am I "hostile" with you? Is that how I make my points?

Oh, you reversed course and now think I may be some hippy with rose colored glasses. Really doesn't fit me in the slightest, but I get it, you're flailing to try to insult me because you're darned sure you shouldn't be 'nice as apple pie'. As if being polite was somehow a weakness.

Ok, I'll try to say it with 'hostility' for a change:

Stop whining and grow the F up.

I asked you what any of your (whining) had to do with your hatred of the US government and everyone involved and you don't even bother to try to address the question. Nope, you're all righteous about how terrible some a-hole was and thus everyone else must be an a-hole too.

Grow up.

Actually, the above doesn't make me feel any better.
I'd much rather treat you with some respect and just press the discussion to be less about anger and more about substance.

Anytime you want to go that way too, your opinions will be listened to with respect in return.

I much prefer your hostility than long droning on lectures that you so often provide for us all. I can deal with hostility. Lectures only bore me to tears. Since you are giving me a choice please feel free to tell me f off all you want. That is a much better option than being lectured too.

Here's a simple binary choice,

a) Treat opposing opinions and people with hostility and hyperbole, and you'll get no respect.

b) Treat opposing opinions and people with respect and real consideration, and you'll get respect and consideration in return.

Up to you.

Is that the same standard you use for some of the folks on this forum that mock and ridicule old salt? Do you have your head so far up your backside that you never read the insults tossed at old salt? Never ever heard you criticize those folks. Why, is that because their criticism is to your liking? For the record OS does not need any one to defend his point of view. He is a very smart guy who speaks way nicer than I ever will. I will make a deal with you MD. When you expand your horizons and become willing and able to criticize all the people on this forum, I will respond in kind. In case you have not noticed, and I won't mention names, there are a lot of people on this forum with very nasty and mean spirited opinions. Why don't you call them out as well? Maybe you are inflicted with selective outrage only at certain people with a point of view you disagree with.

There's a lot I would agree with in this rant, most particularly that Salty is a smart guy who sure as heck doesn't need your defense, nor mine.

I think he's looney tunes at times, but he does offer up all sorts of info I find interesting and he presents his views quite rationally. Often I find his logic to be circular, but I could say that of lots of us at times.

I'm pretty sure that 98% of the time I treat Salty with a modicum of respect and civility. I do get a bit exasperated with him at times, but don't recall losing my cool. But I may have.

But you're right, he can handle the back and forth for himself.

Very interesting MD. My post was a rant in your opinion? You must not have any understanding about what a rant really is. I am also certain that Old Salt gets exasperated at some folks here also. My point was that you ignored was why do you never call out the people who insult and degrade him quite frequently? The gist of my rant was why you are so persnickety about who you are critical of and who you are willing to give a pass to. If you are going to claim the moral high ground here you should at least learn to be consistent in your beliefs. There are quite a few people who are not very nice around here. There was a post here a couple of days ago from an esteemed PhD type who made a crude comment about Bob Barr swallowing sperm. Is that also offensive to you? If you read did it give you a chuckle? I have no problem any time you want to call me out. I only hope that someday you grow a bigger set of balls and apply your same standards to everyone that posts here. After all would that not be fair.

"a bigger set of balls"?

You really can't control yourself, can you?

Are you sure the drunken SOB in that bar wasn't actually you?
Maybe you don't actually need to be drunk to say things that would lead to violence in a bar?
Just an SOB.

Seriously, if you can't understand the objection I have about an ad hominem critique of woman for her appearance and a rip on a man who just baldfacedly lied to the American public, I'm not going to get through to you.

I must have missed the sperm crack, but it does sound non-substantive. But no, I feel no need to defend Barr the same way I would RBG. Again, if you don't see the difference, I can't help you.

And I certainly feel no need to defend Salty. He's quite capable of handling that himself.

That said, sure, I think the personal hostility and lack of respect is not going to be rewarded with respect and civility in return.

The interesting thing to me in my exchanges with you is that, apparently, no matter how civilly and respectfully I try to treat you, you're going to be disrespectful and hostile in return.

Ok. Got it.

[dislaxxic]

Guys? Hello? There's really no need to copy the ENTIRE post you're wanting to quote from another poster...yeeesh...when you use the "quote" tool, just cut out and leave that portion you want to reply to. These lengthy re-posts of ENTIRE posts via quote window really swallow up bandwidth and take FOREVER to scroll thru...it's not necessary and actually quite distracting...

Just sayin'...

..

[MDlaxfan76]

Guys? Hello? There's really no need to copy the ENTIRE post you're wanting to quote from another poster...yeeesh...when you use the "quote" tool, just cut out and leave that portion you want to reply to. These lengthy re-posts of ENTIRE posts via quote window really swallow up bandwidth and take FOREVER to scroll thru...it's not necessary and actually quite distracting...

Just sayin'...

..

Point taken.

[ABV 8.3%]

Not that most of you care, because issues don't sell.

https://www.citizenscount.org/President ... EoQAvD_BwE

Because, the candidates themselves WILL NOT post their positions. Their plans. The bills they sponsored. They just won't.

How was everyone's taxes, due last week? Pay more, get more back, what?