The North Korea Problem

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old salt
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Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:14 pm
OCanada wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:47 pm Not only has NK tested another missile they also told the USA that Pompeo is no longer welcome because he is not “mature”
No, no, no. Trump fixed this, and N Korea is no longer a threat, remember?

So we're all set here. Missile test? What missile test? Only big dumb Democrats allow Kim to test missiles and ruin our weekends.

Hannity said so.
You can come out from under your desk.
It was an anti-tank weapon.
The sort we test every week.
Didn't even make a detectable IR plume.
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Re: The North Korea Problem

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Wasn't under my desk. Trump said the nuke problem in N Korea is over. We're all set.
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holmes435
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Re: The North Korea Problem

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a fan wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:22 pm Wasn't under my desk. Trump said the nuke problem in N Korea is over. We're all set.
The Iranian nuke deal was the worst deal in history even though they didn't pursue nukes afterwards. But we should give N Korea the benefit of the doubt because Trump is in love with Kim even though Fox warned for years about any meeting without preconditions.

The cognitive dissonance is astounding.
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old salt
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Re: The North Korea Problem

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a fan wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:22 pm Wasn't under my desk. Trump said the nuke problem in N Korea is over. We're all set.
Ruined your weekend ?
Did you panic like that every time the other team scored a goal ?
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Re: The North Korea Problem

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i slept fine when Bush, Obama and were President when it came to the notion of getting attacked by a nuclear power.

Trump, too, when he finally shut up with his childish tweets.

You know doggone well I'm simply making fun of not only Trump for bragging about how the nuclear threat from N Korea is over, when it's not....

.....but also folks like you who gave and give Trump a pass for such dangerous and stupid pronouncements. I should have known better when you and FoxNation flipped their lid when Obama didn't back up his red line boast in Syria.

I had no earthly idea that an entire nation of full grown adults would hold their leaders accountable for foreign policy blunders only when they have a little D by their names. I should have known better. I had no idea it was going to be this transparently ridiculous. Like a fool, I thought, "yeah, that was a big mistake Obama made when he said that stupid thing." Turns out? Nope! What you say as President doesn't matter! Not even a little!

And if you're dumb enough to say what the President says or does is really bad for our nation? Guess what? Republicans think you're insane! Because of course they do.

It's like we're living in a Monty Python sketch.
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old salt
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Re: The North Korea Problem

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You want a Monty Python sketch -- Hawaiians cowering in the sewers when sirens go off.
So what should Trump be doing that he's not ? You have no serious ideas. Just unfunny reflexive snark.
At least Trump has dialed back public fear & opened dialogue, including S Korea in the process.
The longer we stay engaged with N Korea, the better their relations get with S Korea, the more deter-able they become.
The comic love fest between Kim & Trump is an improvement over bellicose rhetoric which leads to saber rattling than can easily escalate.
No threatening ballistic missile shots, no S Korean warships being attacked -- that's progress.
That's an improvement over refusing to engage, while Kim lobbed missiles over Japan & drove Hawaii residents into the sewers.
Obama did nothing. Refused to engage. Ignored the growing threat for 8 years & called it strategic patience.
Strategic patience -- like watching ISIS re-emerge, calling them the JV, then sucking his thumb as they rolled across Iraq to Baghdad's suburbs.
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Re: The North Korea Problem

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old salt wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:08 pm You want a Monty Python sketch -- Hawaiians cowering in the sewers when sirens go off.
So what should Trump be doing that he's not ? You have no serious ideas. Just unfunny reflexive snark.
Sigh. Everyone on the forum wants to play dumb. Just like Obama, Trump is doing just fine now that he's stopped tweeting. That's not what I'm taking issue with, and you know it.

Here's what I want:

1. I want for Trump to not tweet (I can't believe I have to say this about a sitting President) that the N Korean nuclear problem was over.

2. That when the President does this, you and guys like 6ftstick get every bit as livid about this reckless statement as you did when Obama did his redline gaffe.

I'm sick of it. Sick of the partisanship.

Want a prediction? You and six ft are going to LOVE Trump's foreign policy moves over the next two years. Big moves, small moves ,all of it will be flawless.

Now how would I know this in advance? Because the policies are irrelevant. All that matters is party.

BTW, six, if you're reading this: did you notice all the Christians getting blown up in Sri Lanka? I thought Trump "fixed" that? Whoops. Guess not. I'm sure your criticism of Trump's failings on this count are sure to follow, right? Right.


old salt wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:08 pm Obama did nothing. Refused to engage. Ignored the growing threat for 8 years & called it strategic patience.
A. that's what your fellow Republican idiots at FoxNews---as well as those in Congress---TOLD HIM TO DO!!!

Or do I need to pull up the youtube videos where the media and R's in Congress called him out for even THINKING of meeting with Kim, thereby giving Kim "status and credibility"? Now that a little R takes office? Out comes the new tune, and FoxNation starts up the music to dance to it.

B. The nuclear football is in the exact same place it was under Obama. But you refuse to admit that, and we both know why.
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old salt
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Re: The North Korea Problem

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Awww. Those meanie GOP Senators kept Obama from meeting with Kim. He wanted to do it, but he didn't want to tarnish his Nobel Prize legacy by being in the same room & photo with such an uncivilized dictator. Tut, tut, tut.

Trump called out those meanie GOP Senators in the primaries & told 'em he'd meet with Kim. Trump mopped the debate floor with them.

Trump only met with Kim, after an unprecedented show of military resolve which had the world freaking out when they lost track of one of our W Pac carrier groups for a couple days. McCain tried to discourage Trump from meeting with Kim, just as he had with Obama. The rest of the world heaved a nonpartisan sigh of relief when Trump agreed to meet with Kim. ...& you're still whining about Obama.
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Re: The North Korea Problem

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No, I'm laughing at someone with your understanding of foreign policy is so far down the rabbit hole with this partisan nonsense that you've managed to convince yourself that Trump is a master Statesmen, the likes of which neither you or VDH have ever seen.

So the reason that "the world was freaking out" is that a full grown adult in the White House was using the communication device better suited for a middle school child to call a foreign leader with nuclear weapons a "rocket man". The world thought the infant in the White House would look to show guys like you just how tough he was by nuking someone simply because he could.

The world "heaving a sigh of relief" is after Trump stopped with his stupid tweets, and started acting like an adult for five minutes.

And what do you do about these childish rants? You spin, and spin, until suddenly Trump is Alexander the Great.

Keep on keepin' on.
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Re: The North Korea Problem

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old salt wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:43 pm Awww. Those meanie GOP Senators kept Obama from meeting with Kim. He wanted to do it, but he didn't want to tarnish his Nobel Prize legacy by being in the same room & photo with such an uncivilized dictator. Tut, tut, tut.a.
:lol: This from the guy who thinks Rachel Maddow and her Russian nonsense is keeping Trump from dealing Putin.

Yeah, ok. Anything you can do to say D's are bad, and R's are good. All the rest is white noise when it comes to anything that happens overseas.
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old salt
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Re: The North Korea Problem

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a fan wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:06 pm No, I'm laughing at someone with your understanding of foreign policy is so far down the rabbit hole with this partisan nonsense that you've managed to convince yourself that Trump is a master Statesmen, the likes of which neither you or VDH have ever seen.

So the reason that "the world was freaking out" is that a full grown adult in the White House was using the communication device better suited for a middle school child to call a foreign leader with nuclear weapons a "rocket man". The world thought the infant in the White House would look to show guys like you just how tough he was by nuking someone simply because he could.

The world "heaving a sigh of relief" is after Trump stopped with his stupid tweets, and started acting like an adult for five minutes.

And what do you do about these childish rants? You spin, and spin, until suddenly Trump is Alexander the Great.

Keep on keepin' on.
Obama told trump that the most urgent crisis he faced coming into office is N Korea.
Did Trump generate that crisis ? Is that still the case ?

Trump is no master statesman. He's just rebranding Kim -- acclimating the US public to the prospect of accepting the reality that Kim won't ever give up his nucs, but it is possible to deter him & siop him before he's a credible threat to CONUS. That's a multi-step process which also requires reassuring our allies. It's a long game which will extend well beyond Trump's Presidency. Trump has at least broken the ice & begun a process which his successors can continue without getting their hands dirty & upsetting Andrea Mitchell's sensibilities. He'll have to back off our past demands, one at a time, in exchange for Kim doing the same. Of course, each time he does, you'll be there with your (R) vs (D) snark, making it harder, ...but that's ok, it's a long game & tensions have been reduced. The process has begun.
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Re: The North Korea Problem

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old salt wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:24 pm It's a long game which will extend well beyond Trump's Presidency.
Yes. And Bush and Obama played their part, so Trump could play his.

Where I take issue with you, as you doggone well know, is when you hammer Obama for playing his part (holding the line and the sanctions), while praising Trump for playing his. It's partisan absurdity, and you know it.

I've been consistent with Trump from the word go. I despised the tweeting and raising the temperatures, so he could take credit when he turned the heat down. And I despised his game of telling his followers N Korea was no longer a nuclear threat.

A fully rational, logical position.
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old salt
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Re: The North Korea Problem

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a fan wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:08 pm
old salt wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:43 pm Awww. Those meanie GOP Senators kept Obama from meeting with Kim. He wanted to do it, but he didn't want to tarnish his Nobel Prize legacy by being in the same room & photo with such an uncivilized dictator. Tut, tut, tut.a.
:lol: This from the guy who thinks Rachel Maddow and her Russian nonsense is keeping Trump from dealing Putin.

Yeah, ok. Anything you can do to say D's are bad, and R's are good. All the rest is white noise when it comes to anything that happens overseas.
Trump's not the only one who won't be able to deal with Putin. Neither will his predecessors. We've hyped our Russophobia so much, there's no backing down now. We're in for another long Cold War.

Make the best of it -- I bought a big chunk of Boeing (on the dip), the day after the 737 Max's were grounded. I'm cocked & ready to do the same with Lockheed-Martin, as soon as the Turkey F-35/S400 dispute is resolved, one way or another, with maybe another dip opportunity.
Thank you Schiff, Blumenthal, Nadler & fellow geniuses.
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old salt
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Re: The North Korea Problem

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a fan wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:30 pm
old salt wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:24 pm It's a long game which will extend well beyond Trump's Presidency.
Yes. And Bush and Obama played their part, so Trump could play his.

Where I take issue with you, as you doggone well know, is when you hammer Obama for playing his part (holding the line and the sanctions), while praising Trump for playing his. It's partisan absurdity, and you know it.

I've been consistent with Trump from the word go. I despised the tweeting and raising the temperatures, so he could take credit when he turned the heat down. And I despised his game of telling his followers N Korea was no longer a nuclear threat.

A fully rational, logical position.
Obama could have done what Trump did, if he'd been willing to play the military card, then meet with Kim, like Trump did.
It wasn't just sanctions. ...although the threat of military action would not have been credible from Obama, it would have meant more before Kim demonstrated his ICBM. We wasted a lot of years refusing to seriously engage.
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Re: The North Korea Problem

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I have been making the best of it. Trump and the GOP have been falling all over themselves to stuff my pockets with money.
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Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by OCanada »

Trying to defend the NK strategy is a losing proposition. The missile test was of an unknown weapon st thexfinecit happened. The test was a message to Trump, along with the disinvite of further Pompeo participation. Meanwhile rebuilding continues.

Strange to read that Iran observed all the rules but somehow the pact supported by virtually the total globe was somehow terrible. Proof of the pudding.

Personally I find the tint to SA more unsettling
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Re: The North Korea Problem

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old salt wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:44 pm
Obama could have done what Trump did, if he'd been willing to play the military card, then meet with Kim, like Trump did.
That is such a crock....the Rs would never allow BHO to do the exact same things they are now cheering..since it's a R!!

You saying so makes it even more pathetic.
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old salt
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Re: The North Korea Problem

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foreverlax wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:47 am
old salt wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:44 pm
Obama could have done what Trump did, if he'd been willing to play the military card, then meet with Kim, like Trump did.
That is such a crock....the Rs would never allow BHO to do the exact same things they are now cheering..since it's a R!!

You saying so makes it even more pathetic.
He's the President. The (R)'s couldn't have stopped him from meeting & opening negotiations with Kim any more than they were able to stop him from negotiating with Iran & lifting sanctions.

Obama was timid about asserting US power diplomatically, but he was hardly reticent in pushing the boundaries of Presidential powers in the face of (R) Congressional opposition. He felt it was beneath him to meet with Kim in a situation where personal diplomacy was necessary for progress.
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Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by foreverlax »

He's the President.
Yup...so he owns it. Same then, same now.

No more blame assignment. ;)
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Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by ToastDunk »

old salt wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:43 pm Awww. Those meanie GOP Senators kept Obama from meeting with Kim. He wanted to do it, but he didn't want to tarnish his Nobel Prize legacy by being in the same room & photo with such an uncivilized dictator. Tut, tut, tut.

Trump called out those meanie GOP Senators in the primaries & told 'em he'd meet with Kim. Trump mopped the debate floor with them.

Trump only met with Kim, after an unprecedented show of military resolve which had the world freaking out when they lost track of one of our W Pac carrier groups for a couple days. McCain tried to discourage Trump from meeting with Kim, just as he had with Obama. The rest of the world heaved a nonpartisan sigh of relief when Trump agreed to meet with Kim. ...& you're still whining about Obama.
A U.S. President meeting with Kim was likely overdue. Good for Donald Trump for taking that step (after all, nothing else was showing much progress over the past decades. Clinton probably came the closest until his progress was shut down by... who was that again?) Anyway, good for Trump. If only he had taken it seriously, which of course we all know he didn't. No, instead he marched into the summit with no more planning than what his gut told him. And that's not because he believed it was the way to go, it's because he doesn't have the mental capacity (or curiosity) to learn something. Anything.

I agree with Fan, to stand behind this President's every move is nothing more than partisan politics.
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