The North Korea Problem

The odds are excellent that you will leave this forum hating someone.
foreverlax
Posts: 3219
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:21 pm

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by foreverlax »

old salt wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:23 pm Otto was taken hostage in 2015. Missile & nuc device testing continued until Trump engaged with Kim.
Strategic patience, while refusing to engage, was not working.
Obama was too morally superior to meet with Kim, while Otto was brutalized in prison & Kim kept testing missiles & detonating hucs.
A course change was long overdue. Trump was the first US President who would stoop to meet with Kim.
Now his successors can continue the dialogue without sullying their petticoats.
Morally superior..... :lol:

Stoop to meet Kim....even more :lol:
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 25756
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

old salt wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:35 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:26 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:23 pm Otto was taken hostage in 2015. Missile & nuc device testing continued until Trump engaged with Kim.
Strategic patience, while refusing to engage, was not working.
Obama was too morally superior to meet with Kim, while Otto was brutalized in prison & Kim kept testing missiles & detonating hucs.
A course change was long overdue. Trump was the first US President who would stoop to meet with Kim.
Now his successors can continue the dialogue without sullying their petticoats.
All hail Trump.
Nope. Just a rational assessment. A much less dangerous situation then 3 years ago & a pathway ahead.
Obama told Trump that N Korea would be the most difficult & dangerous situation he faced, coming into office.
It appears that Trump took him seriously.
I think we can all be pleased that Trump pulled away from the saber rattling of his first 6 or so months, as that clearly wasn't fruitful. It only seemed to harden the NK resolve. As he ratcheted up, so did they, very publicly.

But Trump looks like an incredibly stupid fool for creating expectations that NK would do more than go simply quiet with their program (but no slow down in actual work); he especially looks a fool for elevating Kim on the world stage with nada in return other than his own 'photo op'.

But, hey, sanctions are now being ignored, and the Russians and Chinese are happy.
Big win. But for whom.

Sure, there's a 'pathway', but we've just confirmed NK's understanding that if they hang tough, the US (or at least this Pres) will fold and then make fawning gestures, kissy-facing a brutal tyrant, murderer of hundreds of thousands.. They also know that if they give up their nukes, any future Administration, including the current one, may well renege on any deals made by earlier Admins.

It's existential.

So, exactly how is it less dangerous than 3 years ago?
Trinity
Posts: 3512
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:14 am

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by Trinity »

Exercises cancelled again? Salty? We good with this, too?
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
User avatar
cradleandshoot
Posts: 13841
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by cradleandshoot »

a fan wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:02 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:56 pmNo deal is better than a really bad deal.
Well, I've got great news for you, tech, and old salt. You all got what you wanted.

Should be smooooth sailing from here on out........ ;)
This is one of those rare times a Fan where you and I part ways. Normally I consider you one of the most level headed people on this forum. Give me one good reason my our leaders should trust Iran? They have pretty poor track record of being trustworthy plus they have the billions of dollars that dumb ass Obama gave to them. It may never be smooth sailing but rule # 1 should be to never trust Iran. For some bizarre reason you have this love affair with Iran. That is your business even if I don't understand where you are coming from. I have great news for you... your unquestionable love affair with a hate filled regime that should never be trusted will not end very well. Iran is not interested in peace Iran is interested in the destruction of Israel no matter what.

Grab your gumption there a Fan and take a REAL close look at our soldiers being mutilated in the desert back in 1979. Do you also understand that the government of Iran was responsible for manufacturing the IEDs that killed many American soldiers. I get it you live in your protected little world where bad people just need to be chatted with and persuaded to see the evil of their ways. Give me ONE good reason why you think the government of Iran should be trusted? I would really love to hear what it is.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
User avatar
old salt
Posts: 17511
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:44 am

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by old salt »

Trinity wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:56 pm Exercises cancelled again? Salty? We good with this, too?
Yes. As I said last time, those massive exercises are primarily a saber rattling show of forces & firepower demo.
Individual & unit training alongside ROK allies continues. That's the important stuff for joint readiness.
Computer sim table top war games at HQ & staff levels continue.
Our bomber crews still bomb target ranges at home & the nav way points from Guam to Korea remain the same.
Those exercises were provocative & prompted DPRK acts, to which we declined to respond, like sinking a ROK warship.
They were a bargaining chip that's appropriate to ante up to start negotiations.
Resumption of them remains a retaliatory tool, if appropriate.
Instead the U.S. and South Korean military forces will maintain readiness to defend the South against the North with “newly-designed Command Post exercises and revised field training programs,” the Pentagon said.

The decision to continue scaled-down exercises, rather than perform the major drills, reflects a tacit acceptance by the United States of the “freeze for freeze” approach advocated by China. Despite winning no concessions from Kim at the Hanoi summit last month, Trump is continuing to keep a lid on the exercises in the hopes of reassuring Kim.

The Pentagon said the reduced training reflected a desire “to reduce tension and support our diplomatic efforts to achieve complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula in a final, fully verified manner.”

In his post-summit news conference in Vietnam, Trump again expressed his disdain for the joint training exercises that he continues to describe as an extravagance that South Korea should pay for. “I was telling the generals — I said: Look, you know, exercising is fun and it's nice and they play the war games. And I'm not saying it's not necessary, because at some levels it is, but at other levels it's not. But it's a very, very expensive thing.”

Trump complained that the United States spends hundreds of millions of dollars on those exercises and doesn't get reimbursed. “We fly these massive bombers in from Guam … and then they come and they drop millions of dollars of bombs, and then they go back,” said Trump. “It costs us $100 million every time we do it.”
User avatar
CU77
Posts: 3475
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:49 pm

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by CU77 »

I'm repeating my question to cradle:
CU77 wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:33 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:56 pmThe only deal that should have been made with Iran is real simple... you get rid of all of your nukes or we will help you get rid of them.
And when Iran sez: we don't have any nukes, go away?

As best I can tell, you would then launch a pre-emptive nuclear first strike.

Is that correct? I would really like you to state exactly what your plan would be in this situation.
User avatar
cradleandshoot
Posts: 13841
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by cradleandshoot »

CU77 wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:27 am I'm repeating my question to cradle:
CU77 wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:33 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:56 pmThe only deal that should have been made with Iran is real simple... you get rid of all of your nukes or we will help you get rid of them.
And when Iran sez: we don't have any nukes, go away?

As best I can tell, you would then launch a pre-emptive nuclear first strike.

Is that correct? I would really like you to state exactly what your plan would be in this situation.
Wow !!! my solution CU77 is we should immediately unleash our entire nuclear arsenal and vaporize then entire nation of Iran. If you want to insult my intelligence and ask a really f***ing stupid question I will give you an equally stupid f***ing answer. You do know that Iran has buried their facilities deep underground where a nuke could not destroy them. Maybe you should pay closer attention to some of the things Old Salt has been saying? I understand that the nature of FLP folks does not leave them capable of understanding very simple facts that deviate from the narrow understanding you all have of reality. I get it you were trying to be a smart ass. FLP folks don't do very well with humor that ain't in your wheel house... your better off leaving your very lame attempt at sarcasm to people more qualified to pull it off. :D


Being the nice guy that I am I will give you my answer to your question. I am only guessing that our government has developed ordinance that can penetrate deep underground and destroy deeply buried facilities that Iran has. If our government has not then you can bet your ass the Israelis have done so. You don't have to nuke anyone... you turn the underground facilities into underground piles of rubble. That is my answer to your question. The only thing intelligence has to do is identify these facilities. This will never happen because a bunch of candy ass FLP such as yourself would have a stroke upon our government acting on its own to solve a problem that should have been taken care of a long time ago. Fear not my friend... the Israelis will take care of the problem in due time. Then you can complain at them ... :D
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
wahoomurf
Posts: 1805
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:51 pm

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by wahoomurf »

Did Trump really believe Kim was going to keep his word? You'd think an inveterate liar, who promised to build a wall he knew would never be constructed, couldn't be so gullible. In all fairness, the VSG may have been hallucinating from overindulging some uber potent kimchee.

Is Bolton as stupid as he appears? Did the American Secretary of State, comments on Kim and NK's legerdemain ?

WHERE'S RUDY?
User avatar
CU77
Posts: 3475
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:49 pm

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by CU77 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:14 pmI am only guessing that our government has developed ordinance that can penetrate deep underground and destroy deeply buried facilities that Iran has.
And if your guess is not correct? If you were POTUS and were informed by military intelligence that there was no guarantee that our bunker-busting weapons would eliminate the Iranian facilities? Then what?

I may be a candy-ass, but I at least have the sense to ask a few salient questions before starting a world war against a billion Muslims. You, apparently, do not.
Trinity
Posts: 3512
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:14 am

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by Trinity »

Chinese President Xi cancels Mara Lago visit. Visit to the Hanoi Walker not worth the trip.
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
User avatar
cradleandshoot
Posts: 13841
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by cradleandshoot »

CU77 wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:22 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:14 pmI am only guessing that our government has developed ordinance that can penetrate deep underground and destroy deeply buried facilities that Iran has.
And if your guess is not correct? If you were POTUS and were informed by military intelligence that there was no guarantee that our bunker-busting weapons would eliminate the Iranian facilities? Then what?

I may be a candy-ass, but I at least have the sense to ask a few salient questions before starting a world war against a billion Muslims. You, apparently, do not.
If I had been POTUS I never would have agreed to whatever it was that BHO agreed to in the first place. Question to you... do you trust the Iranians? They have threatened Israel and the US countless times over the past years. If someone tells you they hate you and will punch you in the nose at the first available opportunity... do you take them at their word? You are misconstruing the entire discussion. I do not want to go to war with anyone. I spent the first year of my time in the army expecting to be sent to Iran and die in the desert. I believe you make your point to the leadership in Iran making it very clear to them the price they will pay if they continue in the direction they are going. The threat of war to a billion Muslims was not brought about by anything the USA did. It was initiated by the fact that the present day leaders in Iran despise Israel existing to such a degree that they are willing to risk WW3.

If you can't trust the leadership in Iran, then you have the same problem we have with North Korea. You can't turn a pickle back into a cucumber. Once the Iranians have perfected their nukes and their launch systems the danger of a nuclear war becomes more elevated every day. I base that on what the Iranian government has stated publicly many many times. Unless of course they are just joshing everyone and mean no harm. You think the Israeli government will accept that? I don't think so. I am certain that many of you folks won't agree with my analogy but is that not the same mistake we made with Nazi Germany? That is not to compare the ideologies of the 2 countries. The Germans were led by a madman, the Iranians are led by a group of religious zealots hell bent on destroying one nation. It is ironic that in both circumstances the Jewish nation is/was the target of destruction. I guess we just have to trust the Iranians and ignore all of the past harsh rhetoric... they was just funning us all. :roll:
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
User avatar
CU77
Posts: 3475
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:49 pm

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by CU77 »

As usual, you refuse to say what you would actually do to stop the Iranians from getting a nuke. What, exactly, is "the price they will pay if they continue in the direction they are going"?

As explained to the public multiple times by BHO's Energy Secretary Moniz (a nuclear physicist from MIT), the US has "national technical means" to verify Iranian compliance. And Iran had every incentive to stick to the agreement. The ayatollahs are not stupid and are not suicidal; notice that none of them ever put themselves at serious risk for harm, they are always behind the lines. It was a good deal for them to get sanctions lifted (and, yes, to get their seized money back), and it was a good deal for us and the rest of the world, because it kept Iran from getting a nuke that they might be tempted to use some day.

Now, by killing the deal, Trump has given Iran incentive to go ahead and get a nuke, which they are fully capable of doing. I believe that the US is able to effectively monitor their progress, as Moniz claimed.

So when they have one, then what? Please tell me what POTUS Cradle would do.

Or what, specifically, POTUS Cradle would do to stop them from getting one.
Last edited by CU77 on Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
wahoomurf
Posts: 1805
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:51 pm

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by wahoomurf »

Kim is a huge fan of W.C. Fields. His 3 favorite WCF quotes:

1- "Never give a sucker an even break".
2- "Never smarten up a chump".
3 -"You can't cheat an honest man".

In addition, he's a damn good poker player.

:roll: ;) :shock:
User avatar
cradleandshoot
Posts: 13841
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by cradleandshoot »

CU77 wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:14 pm As usual, you refuse to say what you would actually do to stop the Iranians from getting a nuke. What, exactly, is "the price they will pay if they continue in the direction they are going"?

As explained to the public multiple times by BHO's Energy Secretary Moniz (a nuclear physicist from MIT), the US has "national technical means" to verify Iranian compliance. And Iran had every incentive to stick to the agreement. The ayatollahs are not stupid and are not suicidal; notice that none of them ever put themselves at serious risk for harm, they are always behind the lines. It was a good deal for them to get sanctions lifted (and, yes, to get their seized money back), and it was a good deal for us and the rest of the world, because it kept Iran from getting a nuke that they might be tempted to use some day.

Now, by killing the deal, Trump has given Iran incentive to go ahead and get a nuke, which they are fully capable of doing. I believe that the US is able to effectively monitor their progress, as Moniz claimed.

So when they have one, then what? Please tell me what POTUS Cradle would do.

Or what, specifically, POTUS Cradle would do to stop them from getting one.
The United States can and will do nothing. You seem to have a trusting, caring love affair with the Iranian government. The US government can't verify diddly jack chit. How can you verify what is going on hundreds of feet below ground in reinforced concrete bunkers. BHO was punked and humiliated by the Iranians. You are willing to twist yourself into a pretzel with your love of the Iranian government. I don't know of any other person going out of their way to continually apologize for the murderous regime in Iran. You should be so proud, maybe you should share your confidence with the leaders of Israel. They would love to hear what you have to say.

You have asked what I would do if I were POTUS. That ship sailed a long time ago. The facilities should have been destroyed way back when they were under construction. What I would do as POTUS would be to supply Israel with the most advanced deep penetrating munitions our country has. I would gather every bit of intelligence that was possible as to these facilities location. When the time and opportunity was right I would support the destruction of every fortified underground facility in Iran. At that point folks such as yourself will have a stroke when such an event happens. I already understand the repercussions about an attack on a sovereign nation. Iran already attacked us when they started supplying IEDs to the bad folks in Iraq and Afghanistan. USA will catch hell and about that fact I could care less.

I don't trust the Iranian government, most of you do. My son in his role in law enforcement always uses this analogy... better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I don't give a chit about what the Iranian government says. I pay more attention to what they keep doing. Yeah CU they are really just a bunch of harmless little fuzzballs meandering their way through life. :P You are correct that the Iranian leaders are not stupid. That could spot a gullible idiot in BHO a mile away.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
wahoomurf
Posts: 1805
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:51 pm

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by wahoomurf »

Based on the success the COOO's had with Kim/NK, there's no reason to think he couldn't do the same with the Iranians. Those "people" are even more gullible than Kim. Hell, our VSG will have those folks removing their head wrappings to wave them in surrender. Sic 'em Donny Boy!
User avatar
CU77
Posts: 3475
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:49 pm

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by CU77 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:36 amWhat I would do as POTUS would be to supply Israel with the most advanced deep penetrating munitions our country has. I would gather every bit of intelligence that was possible as to these facilities location. When the time and opportunity was right I would support the destruction of every fortified underground facility in Iran.
HA HA HA!!! You're going to hide behind Israeli skirts!!!! Talk about your candy-ass moves …

And, again, you ignore the issue that "destruction" of Iranian facilities can in no way be guaranteed. The Iranians know, in general, the capabilities of bunker-busting bombs, and you can bet that they've dug deeper than that. Evil yes, stupid no.

And "stupid no" is the key, along with "suicidal no". We deal with Iran the way we dealt with the Evil Empire (that's the Soviets, in case you forgot): MAD. The Ayatollahs don't actually want their 40 virgins. They want to live and rule. That's why they negotiated away a nuke. But now that we're into chest-thumping instead of reality, they'll go ahead and get it as insurance.

That makes things way more dangerous in case some true nut-job gets his thumb on the button.

But we get to shout "evil evil evil!" as much as we want. Yay!
User avatar
cradleandshoot
Posts: 13841
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by cradleandshoot »

CU77 wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:43 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:36 amWhat I would do as POTUS would be to supply Israel with the most advanced deep penetrating munitions our country has. I would gather every bit of intelligence that was possible as to these facilities location. When the time and opportunity was right I would support the destruction of every fortified underground facility in Iran.
HA HA HA!!! You're going to hide behind Israeli skirts!!!! Talk about your candy-ass moves …

And, again, you ignore the issue that "destruction" of Iranian facilities can in no way be guaranteed. The Iranians know, in general, the capabilities of bunker-busting bombs, and you can bet that they've dug deeper than that. Evil yes, stupid no.

And "stupid no" is the key, along with "suicidal no". We deal with Iran the way we dealt with the Evil Empire (that's the Soviets, in case you forgot): MAD. The Ayatollahs don't actually want their 40 virgins. They want to live and rule. That's why they negotiated away a nuke. But now that we're into chest-thumping instead of reality, they'll go ahead and get it as insurance.

That makes things way more dangerous in case some true nut-job gets his thumb on the button.

But we get to shout "evil evil evil!" as much as we want. Yay!
I would be proud as hell if our leaders destroyed every f***ing one them. The fact that our government doing so would cause you to stroke out would only be one more added benefit. :D
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
User avatar
CU77
Posts: 3475
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:49 pm

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by CU77 »

Again, nothing of substance from you, C&S. No surprise. Better get back to the garden.
User avatar
cradleandshoot
Posts: 13841
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by cradleandshoot »

CU77 wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:35 pm Again, nothing of substance from you, C&S. No surprise. Better get back to the garden.
You are the poster child for nothing of substance. I am always glad to get back to my garden... :D You axed a question and I answered it. That must be to hard a concept for a low level Cornell grad to grasp. For the record both my brother in law and nephew are Cornell grads. I will give you my heartfelt reasons why I detest the Iranian government. I was a member of the US Army when the debacle happened at desert one. You probably don't remember those pictures of the Iranian military picking away at the charred remains of our soldiers with their knives and laughing and smiling. Those were my fellow brothers in arms, we all felt the pain and anger at watching the remains of our fellow soldiers being mutilated and degraded in front of the world.

What the f**k would you even understand about how we all felt. Being the candy ass college boy who never put his ass on the line you know nothing about the resentment and anger most of my fellow soldiers felt. I get it CU, while you were getting spanked on your fanny with cricket paddles by your frat brothers some of us were watching our fellow soldiers pay the ultimate price for their service to our country. You can go kiss the ass of the Iranian government but you can go and use your own lips. On your best day you will never be a better man than those 8 soldiers that died in the desert. I doubt that even matters to you. You never signed that check my friend.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
wahoomurf
Posts: 1805
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:51 pm

Re: The North Korea Problem

Post by wahoomurf »

CU77 wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:35 pm Again, nothing of substance from you, C&S. No surprise. Better get back to the garden.
Yikes.Doc Banner ain't a fan of yours....no way, no how!:o
Post Reply

Return to “POLITICS”