Sensible Gun Safety

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Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

runrussellrun wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:11 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:55 pm I was totally aware of that list when I made my last post, IN FACT I WAS LOOKING AT IT. My last post is absolutely fair and true. The police, #14 most dangerous profession is less than twice as dangerous as the #25 profession. The number #5 most dangerous profession is more than twice as dangerous as the #14. The top 5 as a group are more dangerous than the bottom 20 of the list combined, based on deaths per capita. This is the point. To listen to the friends of the police theirs is the most dangerous job, bar none.

Policing is more dangerous than most professions, it however is not off the charts dangerous. It is less dangerous than a sales job where you spend lots of time on the road in automobiles (also truck drivers). It is only ~1 death per 100,000 more dangerous than being a taxi driver!! That's the truth!

The argument that injuries are more significant than other professions, bares some truth but is overstated. The statistic you are quoting is not per capita. You compare it to other professions with similar per capita death rates and you find that the policing profession is 2 to 5 times larger than that other profession. You cannot attribute all police injuries to interaction with the public. If you compare to truck drivers / road warriors which is as a group 4.5 times larger than the policing profession you find that all but 11,000 of those police injuries can be explained by accidents dealing with being on the road or generally out and about.

None the less I am not minimizing injuries caused by interaction with the public, only pointing to a reasonable point of comparison. Perhaps if there was more trust, these injuries would decrease.
Do you distrust the police, jhu72? Do you agree with "guns for me" Bloomberg, arming Hopkins cops?
Can you let me know how many serious politicians have proposed banning all guns? We may see it down the road in the name of "national emergency" if dUmp gets his way.......
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jhu72
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

Post by jhu72 »

... more eyes poked out? A local report. 1 perp, 3 COPs, and 5 bystanders. Perp killed, no COPs injured (apparently), 5 bystanders injured.

The way the article is written, sounds like NOPD is getting the excuses out before telling us where the bullets came from. They likely know pretty well already. Waiting on ballistics.
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runrussellrun
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

Post by runrussellrun »

jhu72 wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:14 pm ... more eyes poked out? A local report. 1 perp, 3 COPs, and 5 bystanders. Perp killed, no COPs injured (apparently), 5 bystanders injured.

The way the article is written, sounds like NOPD is getting the excuses out before telling us where the bullets came from. They likely know pretty well already. Waiting on ballistics.
Ok, so what is the proper procedure? You seem to have plenty of answers, and time. Draft the process and compete with that "policy" company that the pretends in Kalifornia love so much.

Do you agree with Bloomberg? Hopkins should have ARMED cops? That you will now, trust?
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cradleandshoot
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

Post by cradleandshoot »

dislaxxic wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:36 am Thanks John Wayne(andShoot). You and the rest of the Trumpers watch too much TV and movies. Not to mention the fear-mongering Faux News gasbags that continue to hype this issue for all the wrong reasons. Of COURSE these are dangerous jobs. Of COURSE there are situations that require extra caution/lethal response. You never know when that schlub with the 3" blade is really the Terminator, about to morph into the ultimate killing machine.

Honest to GAWD, look at where the conservative lizard brain dwells these days...

..
Or Mr Dis there is the little scenario that played out for my nephew when he was with the RPD. Responding to call from irate woman that her boyfriend is out front with a shotgun. Once he got on the scene Mr irate and drugged up boyfriend initiated a wrestling match with my nephew where poor irate boyfriend pulled my nephews handgun and fired off a shot that missed his head by inches. In the melee he tried to bite off my nephews noseand scratch his eyes out. Nephews partner then shot the irate boyfriend in the belly disabling him and putting him on a colostomy bag for the rest of his life. On your worst day at work Dis did any body ever try to shoot you in the head? It leaves a lasting impression on you for the rest of your life. No BFD... just go out there the next day and go back to being a police officer... just pretend it never even happened. You do know that in all of those John Wayne movies nobody was ever using real bullets? :roll:
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
SCLaxAttack
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

Post by SCLaxAttack »

jhu72 wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:55 pm I was totally aware of that list when I made my last post, IN FACT I WAS LOOKING AT IT. My last post is absolutely fair and true. The police, #14 most dangerous profession is less than twice as dangerous as the #25 profession. The number #5 most dangerous profession is more than twice as dangerous as the #14. The top 5 as a group are more dangerous than the bottom 20 of the list combined, based on deaths per capita. This is the point. To listen to the friends of the police theirs is the most dangerous job, bar none.

Policing is more dangerous than most professions, it however is not off the charts dangerous. It is less dangerous than a sales job where you spend lots of time on the road in automobiles (also truck drivers). It is only ~1 death per 100,000 more dangerous than being a taxi driver!! That's the truth!

The argument that injuries are more significant than other professions, bares some truth but is overstated. The statistic you are quoting is not per capita. You compare it to other professions with similar per capita death rates and you find that the policing profession is 2 to 5 times larger than that other profession. You cannot attribute all police injuries to interaction with the public. If you compare to truck drivers / road warriors which is as a group 4.5 times larger than the policing profession you find that all but 11,000 of those police injuries can be explained by accidents dealing with being on the road or generally out and about.

None the less I am not minimizing injuries caused by interaction with the public, only pointing to a reasonable point of comparison. Perhaps if there was more trust, these injuries would decrease.
Trust goes both ways. The solution is very simple. Like you or your dad would do, keep your pocketknife closed and in your pocket when you approach or are approached by law enforcement. If you have a weapon on you or in your car, say so if asked. When law enforcement tells you to stop or drop your weapon, listen to him or her.

Law abiding citizens do those things, bad guys don’t.

PS. I’m not naive to think there aren’t bad cops out there, just as I’m not naive enough to think good people don’t sometimes make stupid mistakes around police, but both of those things are a very small minority.
jhu72
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

Post by jhu72 »

runrussellrun wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:11 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:55 pm I was totally aware of that list when I made my last post, IN FACT I WAS LOOKING AT IT. My last post is absolutely fair and true. The police, #14 most dangerous profession is less than twice as dangerous as the #25 profession. The number #5 most dangerous profession is more than twice as dangerous as the #14. The top 5 as a group are more dangerous than the bottom 20 of the list combined, based on deaths per capita. This is the point. To listen to the friends of the police theirs is the most dangerous job, bar none.

Policing is more dangerous than most professions, it however is not off the charts dangerous. It is less dangerous than a sales job where you spend lots of time on the road in automobiles (also truck drivers). It is only ~1 death per 100,000 more dangerous than being a taxi driver!! That's the truth!

The argument that injuries are more significant than other professions, bares some truth but is overstated. The statistic you are quoting is not per capita. You compare it to other professions with similar per capita death rates and you find that the policing profession is 2 to 5 times larger than that other profession. You cannot attribute all police injuries to interaction with the public. If you compare to truck drivers / road warriors which is as a group 4.5 times larger than the policing profession you find that all but 11,000 of those police injuries can be explained by accidents dealing with being on the road or generally out and about.

None the less I am not minimizing injuries caused by interaction with the public, only pointing to a reasonable point of comparison. Perhaps if there was more trust, these injuries would decrease.
Do you distrust the police, jhu72? Do you agree with "guns for me" Bloomberg, arming Hopkins cops?
I am very wary of the police. Some are fine, have absolutely no problem with them or their public interactions. Others behave "professionally", but bordering on anti-social in many cases. Others are out right dicks -- some clearly dangerous. Before I will let my guard down with any of them, they have to show themselves to me. So yes, there is distrust. I would suspect they are making the same type of calculations, except for the dicks.

Should note that my workplace shares space with the Baltimore County Police. I meet BCP officers all the time, passing in the garage. Exchange pleasantries nearly everyday. They are generally off duty, either going or coming.

My issue is much less with the police officers than it is with the system which puts them and the citizenry in danger.

As for the other question,I don't believe in arming morons.
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runrussellrun
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

Post by runrussellrun »

wow, you think Bloomberg is a moron. I agree.

Put another way, if someone hires ME to kill someone else, who gets into trouble?

exactly

Bloomie may not carry/use the gun, but him hiring is the SAME as pulling trigger, just as in the above scenario.
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jhu72
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

Post by jhu72 »

SCLaxAttack wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:27 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:55 pm I was totally aware of that list when I made my last post, IN FACT I WAS LOOKING AT IT. My last post is absolutely fair and true. The police, #14 most dangerous profession is less than twice as dangerous as the #25 profession. The number #5 most dangerous profession is more than twice as dangerous as the #14. The top 5 as a group are more dangerous than the bottom 20 of the list combined, based on deaths per capita. This is the point. To listen to the friends of the police theirs is the most dangerous job, bar none.

Policing is more dangerous than most professions, it however is not off the charts dangerous. It is less dangerous than a sales job where you spend lots of time on the road in automobiles (also truck drivers). It is only ~1 death per 100,000 more dangerous than being a taxi driver!! That's the truth!

The argument that injuries are more significant than other professions, bares some truth but is overstated. The statistic you are quoting is not per capita. You compare it to other professions with similar per capita death rates and you find that the policing profession is 2 to 5 times larger than that other profession. You cannot attribute all police injuries to interaction with the public. If you compare to truck drivers / road warriors which is as a group 4.5 times larger than the policing profession you find that all but 11,000 of those police injuries can be explained by accidents dealing with being on the road or generally out and about.

None the less I am not minimizing injuries caused by interaction with the public, only pointing to a reasonable point of comparison. Perhaps if there was more trust, these injuries would decrease.
Trust goes both ways. The solution is very simple. Like you or your dad would do, keep your pocketknife closed and in your pocket when you approach or are approached by law enforcement. If you have a weapon on you or in your car, say so if asked. When law enforcement tells you to stop or drop your weapon, listen to him or her.

Law abiding citizens do those things, bad guys don’t.

PS. I’m not naive to think there aren’t bad cops out there, just as I’m not naive enough to think good people don’t sometimes make stupid mistakes around police, but both of those things are a very small minority.
Trust is a two way street - no doubt about that, Those things you identify as "law abiding citizens do", in my opinion are used as an excuse in many instances. What if you don't understand, what if you don't hear or see. 50% of these killings are of mentally ill individuals. Clearly it is good advice not to flash guns about in public (but yet we have people demanding the ability to do that). A pocket knife, being used to whittle a piece of wood? -- is a bridge to far in my opinion. This not because I once carried a pocket knife, haven't done that since my early teen years. Sure if you are asked if you have a gun in your car, say so - but even then there is a recent incident where a black man was shot in front of his girlfriend, he volunteered the information, didn't wait to be asked. Sometimes law abiding citizens don't do those things, out of fear, out of confusion, out of lack of situational awareness. This stuff is not as cut and dried as it is treated.
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jhu72
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

Post by jhu72 »

runrussellrun wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:48 pm wow, you think Bloomberg is a moron. I agree.

Put another way, if someone hires ME to kill someone else, who gets into trouble?

exactly

Bloomie may not carry/use the gun, but him hiring is the SAME as pulling trigger, just as in the above scenario.
I did not say Bloomberg is a moron -- the rent a cops Hopkins has fielded in the past are another matter. I do think it is stupid to arm these types; just as I think it is stupid to arm some individuals who pass the police academy tests. Bloomberg has more confidence in the ability of those in power to make these hiring decisions than I do.
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6x6
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

Post by 6x6 »

jhu72 wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:35 am
SCLaxAttack wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:57 am
jhu72 wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:43 am
youthathletics wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:54 am jhu72, tell us what you want the law enforcement standards of practice to be when confronted with with an unknown person brandishing a firearm? We can then discuss your idea of how it should be vs. the current standards implemented by law enforcement.
I thought I had made it pretty clear this is not really an issue of the individual killed even having a gun. People are killed because we have set the bar of being a threat too low. You don't need a gun. You run, you get shot. You for some reason don't follow a lawful command, you get shot. You carry a small knife, you get shot. Behave a little strangely, you get shot. You have a gun, but don't threaten, you get shot. You have a toy gun, you get shot. You are a large individual, you get shot. You are black, while doing any of this, your chances of being shot go up 2-3 times.

"Hands up don't shot", is really solid advice for your average citizen when interacting with today's hair trigger COPs. If you are black, it is mandatory.
Maybe it’s time for you to get a touch of reality and go through a “shoot, don’t shoot” drill like this community activist did. His tune changed, yours might, too. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WRHCAUpdAc4

Sorry, but this hardly covers it. This shooting drill is great if followed, but it is clearly insufficient when so many people are being shot in iffy situations, and situations where there are clear failures of policy. There is an entire society (the poor of all races, colors) that don't trust the police. That lack of trust is beginning to extend beyond the poor. Your advice will do nothing to address their concerns. You are asking them to not believe their own eyes, their own experiences.

Statistics clearly show, on the street policing is not a particularly dangerous profession. Chances of being killed or seriously injured are well below that of many other professions. Even the types of deaths and injuries are more likely to be due to the same causes as other professions where the work is outdoors in general traffic. Traffic accidents, etc. The chances of death or injury due to an armed citizen, gun, knife, lead pipe, etc., are way over stated by those arguing how dangerous police work is. As a society, we have chosen to protect the police officer in preference to protecting the citizenry in its interactions with the police officer. The police officer on the beat is well aware of this. Society has provided the COP with his emergency drop piece, "I feared for my life".

Rather than owning up to this, we have some people chopping logic at the thought that the police perform ad hoc executions or that the citizenry should consider taking a position of being leary of their interactions with the police. :lol: :lol:
You cite statistics stating police work isn't any more dangerous than that of a traveling salesperson, claim society protects police officers actions and some of the same people disregard the idea that police have become executioners.

Yet, you, BLM followers, Kaepernick et al, disregard stastics that refute the suggestion that there is some national ongoing conspiracy against blacks or other minorities. Do you consider how many millions of police citizen interactions occur daily and annually but claim "so many are being shot in iffy situations". You highlight these situations yet discount the same logic and statistics when it's the chances of police being shot or injured. You ignore the facts that the aforementioned situations are way overstated.


Certainly agencies should strive to reduce these instances. I think many have and will continue to do so.
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dislaxxic
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

Post by dislaxxic »

"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
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youthathletics
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

Post by youthathletics »

About damned time, although an 8 hour class on meditation and loading an app on your phone ain't gonna do it.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
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Trinity
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

Post by Trinity »

Joseph Wambaugh taught us that 40 years ago. It’s the steady diet of holyshitwhatthehell! Much like the military and their elevated rates.
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laxman3221
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

Post by laxman3221 »

Here's a winner boys, arrested for making death threats to WA state sheriffs who are refusing to enforce their un-Constitutional new gun "laws. Total warrior this one, striking fear in the hearts of even hardened LEO's!
https://www.khq.com/news/omak-man-arres ... e9d6c.html

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jhu72
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

Post by jhu72 »

NOPD finally releases a statement that 3 of the bystanders shot during the shootout reported above,
were likely shot
by the NOPD officers. They make no claim about who was responsible for the other 2 (that I have found). Meaning they know with certainty 3 bystanders were shot by the police, and they are hoping the other 2 weren't, they might be able to get away with it.

In the meantime, Sacramento prosecutors have decided not to prosecute the COPs that shot at a man 20 times, hitting him 8 times, in the back 6 times and killing him. The dead man, had no weapon on him, and was shot in his own back yard, while running. No indication that he committed any crime other than carrying a cell phone that the COPs claim to have thought was a gun. The police showed on the scene because someone had broken some windows in the neighborhood, reportedly.

It takes 9 months to investigate this, and come to the (foregone) conclusion the that it was a righteous kill! What can be said, other than great work Sacramento PD! Justice served, you got your man.

Incident Summary.

Prosecutor Press Conference

The officers were punished with a paid vacation. That will teach them to be more careful next time.

Of course all of this is legal, COPs can kill anybody they want at anytime simply by claiming they thought the individual presented a threat. Absolutely nothing wrong with this system. Nope, not a bit wrong with it.
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Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

jhu72 wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:56 pm NOPD finally releases a statement that 3 of the bystanders shot during the shootout reported above,
were likely shot
by the NOPD officers. They make no claim about who was responsible for the other 2 (that I have found). Meaning they know with certainty 3 bystanders were shot by the police, and they are hoping the other 2 weren't, they might be able to get away with it.

In the meantime, Sacramento prosecutors have decided not to prosecute the COPs that shot at a man 20 times, hitting him 8 times, in the back 6 times and killing him. The dead man, had no weapon on him, and was shot in his own back yard, while running. No indication that he committed any crime other than carrying a cell phone that the COPs claim to have thought was a gun. The police showed on the scene because someone had broken some windows in the neighborhood, reportedly.

It takes 9 months to investigate this, and come to the (foregone) conclusion the that it was a righteous kill! What can be said, other than great work Sacramento PD! Justice served, you got your man.

Incident Summary.

Prosecutor Press Conference

The officers were punished with a paid vacation. That will teach them to be more careful next time.

Of course all of this is legal, COPs can kill anybody they want at anytime simply by claiming they thought the individual presented a threat. Absolutely nothing wrong with this system. Nope, not a bit wrong with it.
It’s insane.
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jhu72
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

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foreverlax
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

Post by foreverlax »

jhu72 wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:04 am What can you say?
Pathetic...you hope this kind of stuff doesn't occur. He, deservedly, has a very rough row to hoe going forward.
jhu72
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Re: Sensible Gun Control

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