Healthcare

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CU77
Posts: 3474
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:49 pm

Re: Healthcare

Post by CU77 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:23 pm I hate to think about what happens to people with serious medical conditions that now have to wait for the government to approve their medical.
I think about my sister-in-law with two special-needs kids. She died two years ago. The Death Panel at her private insurance company (that she paid into for decades) refused to authorize treatment.
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holmes435
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Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:57 am

Re: Healthcare

Post by holmes435 »

Not to mention the .gov has already been a health insurance provider for... checks notes... 54 years.

What has happened to all those people who had to wait for government to approve their procedures?
kramerica.inc
Posts: 6211
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:01 pm

Re: Healthcare

Post by kramerica.inc »

a fan wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:03 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:46 pm Unanswered for years. Until 2020.

The Pandemic has taught us that there are remote opportunities for everything these days- employment, healthcare visits, education...people don’t need to be located near a large city to do anything.
;)
Bzzzzt. Wrong. Not without .gov help! Thank you for playing! ;)

In March 2018, Congress provided $600 million to USDA to expand broadband infrastructure and services in rural America. On Dec. 13, 2018, Secretary Perdue announced the rules of the program, called “ReConnect,” including how the loans and grants will be awarded to help build broadband infrastructure in rural America. USDA received 146 applications between May 31, 2019, and July 12, 2019, requesting $1.4 billion in funding across all three ReConnect Program funding products: 100 percent loan, 100 percent grant, and loan-grant combinations. USDA is reviewing applications and announcing approved projects on a rolling basis. To date, USDA has awarded $191 million through the ReConnect program with offers out to 47 additional potential recipients totaling more than $600 million in investments. Additional investments in all three categories will be made in the coming weeks.




https://www.usda.gov/media/press-releas ... %20America.


Aaah, but the original question was "COULD" it happen!

Just because the .gov is dabbling in the interwebs, and throwing a lot of money into it NOW doesn't mean it COUDN'T happen without the .gov. There are lots of examples of private companies installing massive capital projects. See Verizon with original copper telephone plant and fios interweb. The .gov liked the product so much they are paying billions to strengthen and add to it. They would love to take it all over. But simply don't know the technical side. Like they are trying to do in this instance with healthcare too.

But its gonna be hard to wrestle it 100% away from those lousy capitalists.

;)
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cradleandshoot
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Re: Healthcare

Post by cradleandshoot »

CU77 wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:43 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:23 pm I hate to think about what happens to people with serious medical conditions that now have to wait for the government to approve their medical.
I think about my sister-in-law with two special-needs kids. She died two years ago. The Death Panel at her private insurance company (that she paid into for decades) refused to authorize treatment.
I hope you pardon my comment if it comes across as insensitive. How would government run free health care have saved your sister in law? In 2006 when my dad was diagnosed with dementia my family went through our own personal hell. We had to make arrangements to put him in a facility that could handle his care. The powers that be in NYS demanded access to all his bank accounts and financial information. One day my sister gets a phone call from a bean counter from the state of NY. They are questioning a withdrawal from his bank account for a tad over 800 dollars. I knew exactly what my dad purchased. I took him to Sears that day. He bought a new color TV and a microwave oven. It was his F***ing money and the government f***wads were questioning his purchase. The f***ing government treated my father like he was a f***ing criminal. I'm sorry about your families loss. I am much more dissalusiond at the disrespect my government showed towards my father when he was sick and dying. He died alone and in misery and pain with the German schrapnel still in his back. My government disrespected him until the day he died. I will never forget what your benevolent government did to my dad. You expect me sign off on these mother effing dickheads controlling my health care? Not ever going to happen as long as I am living and breathing. These mother effers will do the same thing to me that they did to my dad. They will take away every shred of my dignity if they have the chance. Single payer healthcare... F**K THAT... :evil:
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
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RedFromMI
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Re: Healthcare

Post by RedFromMI »

cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:22 pm
CU77 wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:43 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:23 pm I hate to think about what happens to people with serious medical conditions that now have to wait for the government to approve their medical.
I think about my sister-in-law with two special-needs kids. She died two years ago. The Death Panel at her private insurance company (that she paid into for decades) refused to authorize treatment.
I hope you pardon my comment if it comes across as insensitive. How would government run free health care have saved your sister in law? In 2006 when my dad was diagnosed with dementia my family went through our own personal hell. We had to make arrangements to put him in a facility that could handle his care. The powers that be in NYS demanded access to all his bank accounts and financial information. One day my sister gets a phone call from a bean counter from the state of NY. They are questioning a withdrawal from his bank account for a tad over 800 dollars. I knew exactly what my dad purchased. I took him to Sears that day. He bought a new color TV and a microwave oven. It was his F***ing money and the government f***wads were questioning his purchase. The f***ing government treated my father like he was a f***ing criminal. I'm sorry about your families loss. I am much more dissalusiond at the disrespect my government showed towards my father when he was sick and dying. He died alone and in misery and pain with the German schrapnel still in his back. My government disrespected him until the day he died. I will never forget what your benevolent government did to my dad. You expect me sign off on these mother effing dickheads controlling my health care? Not ever going to happen as long as I am living and breathing. These mother effers will do the same thing to me that they did to my dad. They will take away every shred of my dignity if they have the chance. Single payer healthcare... F**K THAT... :evil:
Actually you are equating the action of a particular bureaucrat connected to a different public program (where means testing I am assuming is significant) with what _would_ happen if the government was the payer of healthcare in America. The real problem with your argument is that for all those countries that do provide some sort of government run or paid system, these problems are not the dominant ones. (Keeping costs and sometimes waits in general down are).

The real problem with privately run insurance is the profit incentive (to maximize) conflicts with offering the best standard of care. That is why Medicare works so much better - the overhead is low at around 1% compared to the up to 15% profit allowed for ACA plans.
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CU77
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Re: Healthcare

Post by CU77 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:22 pm
CU77 wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:43 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:23 pm I hate to think about what happens to people with serious medical conditions that now have to wait for the government to approve their medical.
I think about my sister-in-law with two special-needs kids. She died two years ago. The Death Panel at her private insurance company (that she paid into for decades) refused to authorize treatment.
I hope you pardon my comment if it comes across as insensitive. How would government run free health care have saved your sister in law?
Your comment did not come across as insensitive, and gubmint health care would not have saved my sister-in-law. My point was that private health care was not any better.
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:22 pmIn 2006 when my dad was diagnosed with dementia my family went through our own personal hell. We had to make arrangements to put him in a facility that could handle his care. The powers that be in NYS demanded access to all his bank accounts and financial information.
Because the gubmint was paying for his care, right? This must have been Medicaid (or whatever it's called in NY).
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:22 pmOne day my sister gets a phone call from a bean counter from the state of NY. They are questioning a withdrawal from his bank account for a tad over 800 dollars. I knew exactly what my dad purchased. I took him to Sears that day. He bought a new color TV and a microwave oven. It was his F***ing money and the government f***wads were questioning his purchase.
The gubmint wanted him to spend his money on his own care BEFORE they spent taxpayer money on him.
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:22 pmThe f***ing government treated my father like he was a f***ing criminal.
You know who would make that better? The FLPs. The reason the gubmint is so tight-fisted is the far right. The left would raise taxes on rich folks so your dad could have been treated better.

And if you didn't like the way the gubmint was treating him, you could have refused the gubmint's money, and taken care of him yourself. That's the way things worked in this country until the advent of programs like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, starting after the Great Depression. And it seems to be the way you would like things to work again.

And I too have experience with this side of things. My father-in-law was a WWII vet. The amount of paperwork and phone calls my wife had to put in to get him the VA benefits he was owed was staggering. Many hundreds of pages. And he was a working-class guy without significant assets other than the small house he'd paid off and a small pension. If my wife hadn't been savvy enough to navigate the system, I'd sure he'd never have gotten what the gubmint had promised him.
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:22 pmI'm sorry about your families loss. I am much more dissalusiond at the disrespect my government showed towards my father when he was sick and dying. He died alone and in misery and pain with the German schrapnel still in his back. My government disrespected him until the day he died. I will never forget what your benevolent government did to my dad.
I'm sorry for your loss as well. But I just don't understand your fury at the gubmint. They paid for your dad's care, after making sure that he truly couldn't pay for it himself. If you didn't like that deal, you didn't have to take it.
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cradleandshoot
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Re: Healthcare

Post by cradleandshoot »

CU77 wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:45 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:22 pm
CU77 wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:43 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:23 pm I hate to think about what happens to people with serious medical conditions that now have to wait for the government to approve their medical.
I think about my sister-in-law with two special-needs kids. She died two years ago. The Death Panel at her private insurance company (that she paid into for decades) refused to authorize treatment.
I hope you pardon my comment if it comes across as insensitive. How would government run free health care have saved your sister in law?
Your comment did not come across as insensitive, and gubmint health care would not have saved my sister-in-law. My point was that private health care was not any better.
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:22 pmIn 2006 when my dad was diagnosed with dementia my family went through our own personal hell. We had to make arrangements to put him in a facility that could handle his care. The powers that be in NYS demanded access to all his bank accounts and financial information.
Because the gubmint was paying for his care, right? This must have been Medicaid (or whatever it's called in NY).
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:22 pmOne day my sister gets a phone call from a bean counter from the state of NY. They are questioning a withdrawal from his bank account for a tad over 800 dollars. I knew exactly what my dad purchased. I took him to Sears that day. He bought a new color TV and a microwave oven. It was his F***ing money and the government f***wads were questioning his purchase.
The gubmint wanted him to spend his money on his own care BEFORE they spent taxpayer money on him.
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:22 pmThe f***ing government treated my father like he was a f***ing criminal.
You know who would make that better? The FLPs. The reason the gubmint is so tight-fisted is the far right. The left would raise taxes on rich folks so your dad could have been treated better.

And if you didn't like the way the gubmint was treating him, you could have refused the gubmint's money, and taken care of him yourself. That's the way things worked in this country until the advent of programs like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, starting after the Great Depression. And it seems to be the way you would like things to work again.

And I too have experience with this side of things. My father-in-law was a WWII vet. The amount of paperwork and phone calls my wife had to put in to get him the VA benefits he was owed was staggering. Many hundreds of pages. And he was a working-class guy without significant assets other than the small house he'd paid off and a small pension. If my wife hadn't been savvy enough to navigate the system, I'd sure he'd never have gotten what the gubmint had promised him.
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:22 pmI'm sorry about your families loss. I am much more dissalusiond at the disrespect my government showed towards my father when he was sick and dying. He died alone and in misery and pain with the German schrapnel still in his back. My government disrespected him until the day he died. I will never forget what your benevolent government did to my dad.
I'm sorry for your loss as well. But I just don't understand your fury at the gubmint. They paid for your dad's care, after making sure that he truly couldn't pay for it himself. If you didn't like that deal, you didn't have to take it.
Guess what CU. Every mother effing penny of my dads care was paid for by HIM. My dad had a decent nest egg that the STATE took over and used to pay for his care. The state of NY even took his pick up truck from him and took over ownership of it. No one in my family had any problem with that. What my family had a problem with was the callous, insensitive and uncaring nature of the folks that were making the decisions on the government level. You want to know why i am so angry at you right now. Yesterday, when you were lecturing me, was the 13th anniversary of my dads passing. NOBODY PAID FOR MY FATHERS END OF LIFE CARE OUTSIDE OF MY FATHER. Your insinuations to the contrary speak volumes to your own disgusting insensitivity. To assuage your FLP sentiments there were a few thousand dollars left over in my dads account after he passed. We did what my dad would have wanted, my family donated that money to the diabetes foundation in honor of my mom. Don't you DARE ever effing try and lecture me again. What you deserve is what you want so much... i wish government run health care on you and all of your loved ones. :evil: I know I need to apologize to you for my anger and frustration. When my dad was so sick and dying his own government turned their back on him. he was treated like a criminal. My dad gave so much and sacrificed so much for this country. That ain't right, that is not how the men and women of that generation should be treated. Do you understand how insulted my family was when the system demanded an explanation as to why my dad spent 800 dollars of his own money for a new TV and a microwave oven. That is why I am so angry at the government. We wanted compassion and understanding for my dad. We got the government questioning how my dad spent his own money. Yeah i guess that should not make me angry, should it?
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
foreverlax
Posts: 3219
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:21 pm

Re: Healthcare

Post by foreverlax »

Where is where I get confused - I was speaking with my oldest friend yesterday, he is like a brother to me.

After spending awhile catching up, I asked him if he voted for Trump again. "Of course I did"....he went on to list all of the issues he had against "JoeBama"...all the greatest hits. He also said Trump is the devil he knows. None of that was a surprise.

1. He is an optician and owns his practice - which receives at least 3/4 of his revenue from Medicare/Medicaid/Private Insurance
2. His brother and partner was just able to qualify for Medicare, after having been part of the businesses' healthcare plan...he is over the moon.
3. His son was an officer in the Navy, on a nuke sub - he now works for a company that sets up solar panel fields in agricultural areas.
4. All his kids were educated publicly, elementary through college and grad school....his two daughters work for 3 letter .gov agencies.
5. Wife has a Phd in Education and teaches in the public school system

What is surprising - how much this family needs .gov and how it seems they vote against what is actually good for them.
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MDlaxfan76
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Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: Healthcare

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:52 am
CU77 wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:45 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:22 pm
CU77 wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:43 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:23 pm I hate to think about what happens to people with serious medical conditions that now have to wait for the government to approve their medical.
I think about my sister-in-law with two special-needs kids. She died two years ago. The Death Panel at her private insurance company (that she paid into for decades) refused to authorize treatment.
I hope you pardon my comment if it comes across as insensitive. How would government run free health care have saved your sister in law?
Your comment did not come across as insensitive, and gubmint health care would not have saved my sister-in-law. My point was that private health care was not any better.
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:22 pmIn 2006 when my dad was diagnosed with dementia my family went through our own personal hell. We had to make arrangements to put him in a facility that could handle his care. The powers that be in NYS demanded access to all his bank accounts and financial information.
Because the gubmint was paying for his care, right? This must have been Medicaid (or whatever it's called in NY).
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:22 pmOne day my sister gets a phone call from a bean counter from the state of NY. They are questioning a withdrawal from his bank account for a tad over 800 dollars. I knew exactly what my dad purchased. I took him to Sears that day. He bought a new color TV and a microwave oven. It was his F***ing money and the government f***wads were questioning his purchase.
The gubmint wanted him to spend his money on his own care BEFORE they spent taxpayer money on him.
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:22 pmThe f***ing government treated my father like he was a f***ing criminal.
You know who would make that better? The FLPs. The reason the gubmint is so tight-fisted is the far right. The left would raise taxes on rich folks so your dad could have been treated better.

And if you didn't like the way the gubmint was treating him, you could have refused the gubmint's money, and taken care of him yourself. That's the way things worked in this country until the advent of programs like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, starting after the Great Depression. And it seems to be the way you would like things to work again.

And I too have experience with this side of things. My father-in-law was a WWII vet. The amount of paperwork and phone calls my wife had to put in to get him the VA benefits he was owed was staggering. Many hundreds of pages. And he was a working-class guy without significant assets other than the small house he'd paid off and a small pension. If my wife hadn't been savvy enough to navigate the system, I'd sure he'd never have gotten what the gubmint had promised him.
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:22 pmI'm sorry about your families loss. I am much more dissalusiond at the disrespect my government showed towards my father when he was sick and dying. He died alone and in misery and pain with the German schrapnel still in his back. My government disrespected him until the day he died. I will never forget what your benevolent government did to my dad.
I'm sorry for your loss as well. But I just don't understand your fury at the gubmint. They paid for your dad's care, after making sure that he truly couldn't pay for it himself. If you didn't like that deal, you didn't have to take it.
Guess what CU. Every mother effing penny of my dads care was paid for by HIM. My dad had a decent nest egg that the STATE took over and used to pay for his care. The state of NY even took his pick up truck from him and took over ownership of it. No one in my family had any problem with that. What my family had a problem with was the callous, insensitive and uncaring nature of the folks that were making the decisions on the government level. You want to know why i am so angry at you right now. Yesterday, when you were lecturing me, was the 13th anniversary of my dads passing. NOBODY PAID FOR MY FATHERS END OF LIFE CARE OUTSIDE OF MY FATHER. Your insinuations to the contrary speak volumes to your own disgusting insensitivity. To assuage your FLP sentiments there were a few thousand dollars left over in my dads account after he passed. We did what my dad would have wanted, my family donated that money to the diabetes foundation in honor of my mom. Don't you DARE ever effing try and lecture me again. What you deserve is what you want so much... i wish government run health care on you and all of your loved ones. :evil: I know I need to apologize to you for my anger and frustration. When my dad was so sick and dying his own government turned their back on him. he was treated like a criminal. My dad gave so much and sacrificed so much for this country. That ain't right, that is not how the men and women of that generation should be treated. Do you understand how insulted my family was when the system demanded an explanation as to why my dad spent 800 dollars of his own money for a new TV and a microwave oven. That is why I am so angry at the government. We wanted compassion and understanding for my dad. We got the government questioning how my dad spent his own money. Yeah i guess that should not make me angry, should it?
I'll take a chance and hope this is heard in the spirit intended.

The situation of end of life care is enormously challenging, a combination of huge costs and terrible emotional devastation.

The financial issues are quite clearly not addressable privately by those without top 10% means and no one is really prepared for the emotional toll.

Government safety net support is currently limited and there are all sorts of pressures systematically to limit further. Overworked or underpaid bureaucrats (public or private) are under pressure to process too many claims for too much money, beyond those limitations...public same as on the private side.

It is difficult IMO to blame the far left for these limitations and pressures...rather they would tax that top 10% so as to be less limited in the support.

This is the thread where we can discuss how to best meet these challenges...but there's really no solution to the emotional toll.

Personally, I think our health system needs to be refocused on prevention and wellbeing, holistically, which means also refocusing our food system, etc. This will reduce costs and extend the period of high quality life.

I think we need to distinguish between extraordinary end of life care, enormously costly, and reorient ourselves to end of life with dignity. We should incentivize end of life directives that tell the system not to go to extraordinary measures under various circumstances.

This last may be controversial, but I think it's quite important if we are to reduce healthcare costs.
kramerica.inc
Posts: 6211
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:01 pm

Re: Healthcare

Post by kramerica.inc »

foreverlax wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:16 am Where is where I get confused - I was speaking with my oldest friend yesterday, he is like a brother to me.

After spending awhile catching up, I asked him if he voted for Trump again. "Of course I did"....he went on to list all of the issues he had against "JoeBama"...all the greatest hits. He also said Trump is the devil he knows. None of that was a surprise.

1. He is an optician and owns his practice - which receives at least 3/4 of his revenue from Medicare/Medicaid/Private Insurance
2. His brother and partner was just able to qualify for Medicare, after having been part of the businesses' healthcare plan...he is over the moon.
3. His son was an officer in the Navy, on a nuke sub - he now works for a company that sets up solar panel fields in agricultural areas.
4. All his kids were educated publicly, elementary through college and grad school....his two daughters work for 3 letter .gov agencies.
5. Wife has a Phd in Education and teaches in the public school system

What is surprising - how much this family needs .gov and how it seems they vote against what is actually good for them.
Living high on the public assistance hog.
They didnt NEED it. They chose it.
Because it sure was easy.
foreverlax
Posts: 3219
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:21 pm

Re: Healthcare

Post by foreverlax »

kramerica.inc wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:37 am
foreverlax wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:16 am Where is where I get confused - I was speaking with my oldest friend yesterday, he is like a brother to me.

After spending awhile catching up, I asked him if he voted for Trump again. "Of course I did"....he went on to list all of the issues he had against "JoeBama"...all the greatest hits. He also said Trump is the devil he knows. None of that was a surprise.

1. He is an optician and owns his practice - which receives at least 3/4 of his revenue from Medicare/Medicaid/Private Insurance
2. His brother and partner was just able to qualify for Medicare, after having been part of the businesses' healthcare plan...he is over the moon.
3. His son was an officer in the Navy, on a nuke sub - he now works for a company that sets up solar panel fields in agricultural areas.
4. All his kids were educated publicly, elementary through college and grad school....his two daughters work for 3 letter .gov agencies.
5. Wife has a Phd in Education and teaches in the public school system

What is surprising - how much this family needs .gov and how it seems they vote against what is actually good for them.
Living high on the public assistance hog.
They didnt NEED it. They chose it.
Because it sure was easy.
No clue what you are trying to assert.....I see it more as not fully understanding exactly how important .gov is, of course some are just hypocrites.

How many small business owners took the PPP money and wound up making a profit, while others couldn't get the money they need to stay afloat?
a fan
Posts: 17716
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: Healthcare

Post by a fan »

foreverlax wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:16 am 1. He is an optician and owns his practice - which receives at least 3/4 of his revenue from Medicare/Medicaid/Private Insurance
2. His brother and partner was just able to qualify for Medicare, after having been part of the businesses' healthcare plan...he is over the moon.
3. His son was an officer in the Navy, on a nuke sub - he now works for a company that sets up solar panel fields in agricultural areas.
4. All his kids were educated publicly, elementary through college and grad school....his two daughters work for 3 letter .gov agencies.
5. Wife has a Phd in Education and teaches in the public school system

What is surprising - how much this family needs .gov and how it seems they vote against what is actually good for them.
They figured guys like this out way back in the Reagan Era......the Republicans know that if they simply TELL your friend that the Government is bad? They can turn right around, make government huge, make their lives and prosperity ENTIRELY dependent on the government....and your friend will believe that his success is self-made.

It works. In fact, it works so freaking well that we have millions of Americans who have NO IDEA what is putting food on their table. And the list above is the case in point.

Look at the reaction 6ft, Pete, and others have had when I point this out to them. They get upset. They deflect. They change the meanings of words (socialism is no longer when the government owns and manages the asset in question). They act like the University of Virginia "is different", and doesn't count as the government.

BTW, you described why the Republican party explodes the size of the Federal government every chance they get. And why Trump, for example, borrowed $3 Trillion to blow on domestic corruption BEFORE Covid bailouts. It maintains this entire illusion for your friend, and allows him to pay low taxes, while still getting paid.

So look at that list. Pretend the Republicans stop lying, and start shrinking government. Every single government perq your friend enjoyed to get him his lifestyle, save perhaps his son's service in the Navy, would be either eliminated, or severely cut. His whole life would be turned upside down.

THAT is why we borrow. Your buddy, and his kids, are in for a rude awakening if the Republicans EVER practice what they preach.

Don't hold your breath on that count.....
kramerica.inc
Posts: 6211
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:01 pm

Re: Healthcare

Post by kramerica.inc »

foreverlax wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:15 am
kramerica.inc wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:37 am
foreverlax wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:16 am Where is where I get confused - I was speaking with my oldest friend yesterday, he is like a brother to me.

After spending awhile catching up, I asked him if he voted for Trump again. "Of course I did"....he went on to list all of the issues he had against "JoeBama"...all the greatest hits. He also said Trump is the devil he knows. None of that was a surprise.

1. He is an optician and owns his practice - which receives at least 3/4 of his revenue from Medicare/Medicaid/Private Insurance
2. His brother and partner was just able to qualify for Medicare, after having been part of the businesses' healthcare plan...he is over the moon.
3. His son was an officer in the Navy, on a nuke sub - he now works for a company that sets up solar panel fields in agricultural areas.
4. All his kids were educated publicly, elementary through college and grad school....his two daughters work for 3 letter .gov agencies.
5. Wife has a Phd in Education and teaches in the public school system

What is surprising - how much this family needs .gov and how it seems they vote against what is actually good for them.
Living high on the public assistance hog.
They didnt NEED it. They chose it.
Because it sure was easy.
No clue what you are trying to assert.....I see it more as not fully understanding exactly how important .gov is, of course some are just hypocrites.

How many small business owners took the PPP money and wound up making a profit, while others couldn't get the money they need to stay afloat?
I'm asserting that.gov is turning Americans into people that think they deserve cushy lives without doing much work. Good for them. But I see the weakening of American work ethic as a negative trait to increased socialism.

And speaking of PPP money, Tom Brady was able to get a PPP loan.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/05/tom-bra ... -loan.html
a fan
Posts: 17716
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: Healthcare

Post by a fan »

kramerica.inc wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:55 am I'm asserting that.gov is turning Americans into people that think they deserve cushy lives without doing much work. Good for them. But I see the weakening of American work ethic as a negative trait to increased socialism
And every time you vote for your Republican party? The handouts and socialism gets worse.

Annnnnnytime your team wants to cut off rural America, and keep them from taking money from cities to sustain their plastic lifestyle, and to FINALLY pop the illusion that they are self-sufficient? Let us know.

I told you Trump would make it worse before he took office. Now here we are, four years later, and government is bigger than ever.

Good luck convincing your fellow Republicans that that's what happened.
foreverlax
Posts: 3219
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:21 pm

Re: Healthcare

Post by foreverlax »

a fan wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:46 am
foreverlax wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:16 am 1. He is an optician and owns his practice - which receives at least 3/4 of his revenue from Medicare/Medicaid/Private Insurance
2. His brother and partner was just able to qualify for Medicare, after having been part of the businesses' healthcare plan...he is over the moon.
3. His son was an officer in the Navy, on a nuke sub - he now works for a company that sets up solar panel fields in agricultural areas.
4. All his kids were educated publicly, elementary through college and grad school....his two daughters work for 3 letter .gov agencies.
5. Wife has a Phd in Education and teaches in the public school system

What is surprising - how much this family needs .gov and how it seems they vote against what is actually good for them.
They figured guys like this out way back in the Reagan Era......the Republicans know that if they simply TELL your friend that the Government is bad? They can turn right around, make government huge, make their lives and prosperity ENTIRELY dependent on the government....and your friend will believe that his success is self-made.

It works. In fact, it works so freaking well that we have millions of Americans who have NO IDEA what is putting food on their table. And the list above is the case in point.

Look at the reaction 6ft, Pete, and others have had when I point this out to them. They get upset. They deflect. They change the meanings of words (socialism is no longer when the government owns and manages the asset in question). They act like the University of Virginia "is different", and doesn't count as the government.

BTW, you described why the Republican party explodes the size of the Federal government every chance they get. And why Trump, for example, borrowed $3 Trillion to blow on domestic corruption BEFORE Covid bailouts. It maintains this entire illusion for your friend, and allows him to pay low taxes, while still getting paid.

So look at that list. Pretend the Republicans stop lying, and start shrinking government. Every single government perq your friend enjoyed to get him his lifestyle, save perhaps his son's service in the Navy, would be either eliminated, or severely cut. His whole life would be turned upside down.

THAT is why we borrow. Your buddy, and his kids, are in for a rude awakening if the Republicans EVER practice what they preach.

Don't hold your breath on that count.....
We agree.

That is when you use facts, without labels, 80% of us can agree on 80% of the issues.
foreverlax
Posts: 3219
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:21 pm

Re: Healthcare

Post by foreverlax »

kramerica.inc wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:55 am
foreverlax wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:15 am
kramerica.inc wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:37 am
foreverlax wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:16 am Where is where I get confused - I was speaking with my oldest friend yesterday, he is like a brother to me.

After spending awhile catching up, I asked him if he voted for Trump again. "Of course I did"....he went on to list all of the issues he had against "JoeBama"...all the greatest hits. He also said Trump is the devil he knows. None of that was a surprise.

1. He is an optician and owns his practice - which receives at least 3/4 of his revenue from Medicare/Medicaid/Private Insurance
2. His brother and partner was just able to qualify for Medicare, after having been part of the businesses' healthcare plan...he is over the moon.
3. His son was an officer in the Navy, on a nuke sub - he now works for a company that sets up solar panel fields in agricultural areas.
4. All his kids were educated publicly, elementary through college and grad school....his two daughters work for 3 letter .gov agencies.
5. Wife has a Phd in Education and teaches in the public school system

What is surprising - how much this family needs .gov and how it seems they vote against what is actually good for them.
Living high on the public assistance hog.
They didnt NEED it. They chose it.
Because it sure was easy.
No clue what you are trying to assert.....I see it more as not fully understanding exactly how important .gov is, of course some are just hypocrites.

How many small business owners took the PPP money and wound up making a profit, while others couldn't get the money they need to stay afloat?
I'm asserting that.gov is turning Americans into people that think they deserve cushy lives without doing much work. Good for them. But I see the weakening of American work ethic as a negative trait to increased socialism.

And speaking of PPP money, Tom Brady was able to get a PPP loan.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/05/tom-bra ... -loan.html
If you are directing that assertion toward my friend, you would be 180 degrees wrong. He, his wife and his children work as hard as anyone I know...got it from his parents. They also walk the talk - community service, giving of time and money. The boy now serves his country by representing the Navy at funerals and services.

Did you or your company benefit from PPP?
kramerica.inc
Posts: 6211
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:01 pm

Re: Healthcare

Post by kramerica.inc »

foreverlax wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:40 am
kramerica.inc wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:55 am
foreverlax wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:15 am
kramerica.inc wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:37 am
foreverlax wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:16 am Where is where I get confused - I was speaking with my oldest friend yesterday, he is like a brother to me.

After spending awhile catching up, I asked him if he voted for Trump again. "Of course I did"....he went on to list all of the issues he had against "JoeBama"...all the greatest hits. He also said Trump is the devil he knows. None of that was a surprise.

1. He is an optician and owns his practice - which receives at least 3/4 of his revenue from Medicare/Medicaid/Private Insurance
2. His brother and partner was just able to qualify for Medicare, after having been part of the businesses' healthcare plan...he is over the moon.
3. His son was an officer in the Navy, on a nuke sub - he now works for a company that sets up solar panel fields in agricultural areas.
4. All his kids were educated publicly, elementary through college and grad school....his two daughters work for 3 letter .gov agencies.
5. Wife has a Phd in Education and teaches in the public school system

What is surprising - how much this family needs .gov and how it seems they vote against what is actually good for them.
Living high on the public assistance hog.
They didnt NEED it. They chose it.
Because it sure was easy.
No clue what you are trying to assert.....I see it more as not fully understanding exactly how important .gov is, of course some are just hypocrites.

How many small business owners took the PPP money and wound up making a profit, while others couldn't get the money they need to stay afloat?
I'm asserting that.gov is turning Americans into people that think they deserve cushy lives without doing much work. Good for them. But I see the weakening of American work ethic as a negative trait to increased socialism.

And speaking of PPP money, Tom Brady was able to get a PPP loan.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/05/tom-bra ... -loan.html
If you are directing that assertion toward my friend, you would be 180 degrees wrong. He, his wife and his children work as hard as anyone I know...got it from his parents. They also walk the talk - community service, giving of time and money. The boy now serves his country by representing the Navy at funerals and services.

Did you or your company benefit from PPP?
No, Not directed at him personally. Talking more philosophically. The full on .gov path is what I think is bs. and the taxpayers shouldn't have to foot the bill for it. My brother-in-law is the guy who wants everyone to pay more taxes, for him and his wife and kid to use all the programs. Copmplains when he has to pay a sports and club fee for his kid...at public school. Never paid a tuition bill his entire life. Meanwhile he works from home for a .gov contractor making 6 figures for doing well, minimal work. Good for him. But he's a lazy leech.

He's like Tom Brady using the PPP, if you will. Sure, it's legal to do what he does. But certainly out of the spirit of the law.

And no, our company did not use PPP although we qualified for it.
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CU77
Posts: 3474
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:49 pm

Re: Healthcare

Post by CU77 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:52 am Guess what CU. Every mother effing penny of my dads care was paid for by HIM. My dad had a decent nest egg that the STATE took over and used to pay for his care.
And why did you let that happen? If he could afford his own care, why was the state involved at all?

I'll tell you why: because the state would have kept paying after your dad's own money ran out. That's why you took the deal. Don't like the deal? Don't take it.
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:52 amDon't you DARE ever effing try and lecture me again.
Stop being such a snowflake. If you don't want responses, don't post here.

Neither I nor anyone else here disrespects your dad and his military service, or yours for that matter. But that doesn't mean your opinions get a free pass.
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:52 amWhat you deserve is what you want so much... i wish government run health care on you and all of your loved ones.
I cared for my mom and dad through their dying days 12 years ago. As their only living child, it was all on me. They both had Medicare, and it was fantastic. Just paid for all medical stuff, no questions asked. I am totally on board with government run health care.
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:52 amDo you understand how insulted my family was when the system demanded an explanation as to why my dad spent 800 dollars of his own money for a new TV and a microwave oven.
Nope. You and your dad made a deal. The deal was, turn over ALL your money & the state will guarantee to pay for care indefinitely. If you didn't like that deal, you shouldn't have taken it.

And: my TV cost $200 and my microwave cost $80.
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cradleandshoot
Posts: 13840
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: Healthcare

Post by cradleandshoot »

CU77 wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:47 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:52 am Guess what CU. Every mother effing penny of my dads care was paid for by HIM. My dad had a decent nest egg that the STATE took over and used to pay for his care.
And why did you let that happen? If he could afford his own care, why was the state involved at all?

I'll tell you why: because the state would have kept paying after your dad's own money ran out. That's why you took the deal. Don't like the deal? Don't take it.
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:52 amDon't you DARE ever effing try and lecture me again.
Stop being such a snowflake. If you don't want responses, don't post here.

Neither I nor anyone else here disrespects your dad and his military service, or yours for that matter. But that doesn't mean your opinions get a free pass.
I don't mind responses when they are not framed in the form of a lecture.
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:52 amWhat you deserve is what you want so much... i wish government run health care on you and all of your loved ones.
I cared for my mom and dad through their dying days 12 years ago. As their only living child, it was all on me. They both had Medicare, and it was fantastic. Just paid for all medical stuff, no questions asked. I am totally on board with government run health care.

I am not on board with government run health care. My dad was terminally ill for a little over a year. We could have put him in the VA hospital in Canandaigua. He had about 130 thousand dollars saved up. That is just about what it cost for the one year he spent on the dementia ward and in hospice. My sisters and brother took care of him at home 24/7 for 6 months before he became a danger to himself. The state provided him the facility where he could be safe and to die. My dad paid for it. We could debate how much the cost but when your loved one is dying you do the best for them that you can.
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:52 amDo you understand how insulted my family was when the system demanded an explanation as to why my dad spent 800 dollars of his own money for a new TV and a microwave oven.
Nope. You and your dad made a deal. The deal was, turn over ALL your money & the state will guarantee to pay for care indefinitely. If you didn't like that deal, you shouldn't have taken it.

My sisters and brother made the deal, my dad was too sick to be involved in the decision making process. I suppose we did not have to take any deal. We could have just chained him up in the basement and let him wither away. Think of the money we could have saved.

And: my TV cost $200 and my microwave cost $80.
My dad bought the TV and the microwave a little over 5 years before he became sick. They did not know what my dad had purchased, they questioned the withdrawl of the money from his bank account. That is how far back they looked into my dad's finances. If I knew now what I did not know then I would have taken my dad to Vegas and let him spend every dime of his money doing what he enjoyed doing. The insinuation during the process by the bean counters went under the assumption that ALL people in need of care are trying to cheat the system. My sisters and brother and i were 100% honest and upfront about every penny of my dad's finances. I apologize to you that my dad did not die under circumstances that were understandable to you.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
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CU77
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Re: Healthcare

Post by CU77 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:42 pm I don't mind responses when they are not framed in the form of a lecture.
I frame my responses however I want. Read them or not, your choice.
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:52 am My sisters and brother made the deal, my dad was too sick to be involved in the decision making process. I suppose we did not have to take any deal. We could have just chained him up in the basement and let him wither away.
But this is EXACTLY what you have been advocating for as public policy! No Social Security, no Medicare, no Medicaid, just whatever you can individually save up and whatever your family can tolerate. If you end up chained in the basement, too bad for you. THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE SAID YOU WANT FOR EVERYONE.
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:52 am If I knew now what I did not know then I would have taken my dad to Vegas and let him spend every dime of his money doing what he enjoyed doing.
Absolutely. My dad had a stroke in his car in the parking lot of Giant Eagle. What followed was six months of pure hell. Stomach tube, my dad totally not understanding what was happening to him, intensive rehab, far-from-the-best nursing home that was the one closest to my mom & dad's house so my mom could drive there, me flying back and forth across the country while trying to do my job remotely, my mom declining rapidly to her own death before my dad on the night of the "snowstorm of the century", me in the only car on Interstate 76 slipping and sliding trying to get to the hospital, not making it in time, intensive search for a better place for my dad, another stroke, the end.

I think all three of us would have been better off if they'd just let my dad die in the Giant Eagle parking lot.
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:52 amThe insinuation during the process by the bean counters went under the assumption that ALL people in need of care are trying to cheat the system.
Well of course! The taxpayers demand that their money not go to cheaters, and the state was on the hook for a ton of money if your dad had lived longer. No way to know who's a cheater without checking up on everyone.

Know what works way better at preserving dignity? Programs that are not means-tested, programs like Social Security and Medicare. Know who advocates for those?

FLPs.
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