Healthcare

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MDlaxfan76
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Re: Healthcare

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

HooDat wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:21 pm
CU77 wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:17 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:51 amBut here is why I think the left blows the argument: When they argue that 'healthcare is a human right, not a privilege.' That blows the minds of folks who value earning what they receive. (often hypocritically, but it's a philosophical POV).
I completely agree. Too many on the left have seemingly given up on the notion of bringing more people over to their point of view, and hence winning more elections.

But the hypocrisy on the right is also high. I have not been able to find any one who will say, yes, we must let people die in the street if they can't pay for their health care. But that's the actual alternative to health care not being a "right". We, as a society, are not willing to tolerate that, so we pass laws like Ronniecare (EMTALA) that force private-sector entities to work for free to provide (emergency) health care to all. Of course these entities don't really do it for free; they pass the costs on to the rest of us in the form of higher insurance premiums and out-of-pocket expenses.
this conservative would argue that health care is not a "human right", but it is a civil right. Communities owe each other the promise of taking care of one another when injured or sick.
I could agree with either.

I just think that making that the crux of the argument makes it hard for folks to focus on how to do it better, smarter, more efficiently
DMac
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Re: Healthcare

Post by DMac »

Here's one everyone should be willing to sign.
Thanks...and pass it on.
https://www.change.org/p/colorado-gener ... igned=true
SCLaxAttack
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Re: Healthcare

Post by SCLaxAttack »

DMac wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:03 pm Here's one everyone should be willing to sign.
Thanks...and pass it on.
https://www.change.org/p/colorado-gener ... igned=true
No reason for such a common medicine to be so high priced, but this touches on another part of healthcare - what is a person’s responsibility to keep themselves healthy so they’re reducing the probability of getting behavior related/affected health problems? And how might that be implemented?

I can well afford cholesterol medication to reduce the possibility of having any of the many medical problems my normally high ldl levels contribute to, but about five years ago I chose to control my ldl through changes to diet and exercise. People shouldn’t have to pay for other people’s poor lifestyle choices. Don’t know how this can be incorporated into our health costs, but it should. The only questions on a health insurance application shouldn’t just be gender, age, and if you smoke.
DMac
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Re: Healthcare

Post by DMac »

I remember when you did that, SClax, went from the dad bod to the six pack. Came real close to PMing you several times to see if you were sticking with the new routine you started. Of course, that's the ticket and would eliminate many of our health problems. I'm blown away by the size of our population in general, it's awful. I've had one good habit (a few bad ones too) pretty much my entire life and that's exercising. When you answer none to "how many medications do you take daily" at the doctor's office at my age the next thing you'll hear is, "do you know how unusual that is?" Our answer to obesity is to accept it, the obese girl is now "curvy" for example, and don't dare "body shame" anyone who is a hundred pounds over weight. What we eat, as well as how much we eat, is a formula for health problems. Fast food chains and super sizing is a way of life in the USofA.
I have little to no sympathy for the Type 2 diabetic who brought it on him/herself because they couldn't push their plate away or settle for only one doughnut (amazing how the ones who drop 150 or so pounds are no longer diabetics, eh?). Type 1 (insulin dependant) diabetics are a whole different ball game, this a matter of genetics. My youngest became a diabetic at 12, an active kid who wasn't a pound overweight (still isn't). It pizzez me off to no end how he and his like get raped by the cost of insulin which they need to stay alive. Big Pharma preys on people who need their products and it's just flat out wrong.
That's a pretty long way of saying I agree with your sentiments.
OCanada
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Re: Healthcare

Post by OCanada »

Most large plans now have a preventive health component. But more importantly genetics play a huge role in whether people develop high: BP, cholesterol, lipids, cancers , heart issues etc. ripple do not have total control over their health status.

This is especially important when preexisting condition coverage will disappear.

We could do a much better job of preventive care but end of life issues are a major issue.

The country can not afford to have its populace not have healthcare/ healthy population and remain competitive.
jhu72
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Re: Healthcare

Post by jhu72 »

DMac wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:24 am I remember when you did that, SClax, went from the dad bod to the six pack. Came real close to PMing you several times to see if you were sticking with the new routine you started. Of course, that's the ticket and would eliminate many of our health problems. I'm blown away by the size of our population in general, it's awful. I've had one good habit (a few bad ones too) pretty much my entire life and that's exercising. When you answer none to "how many medications do you take daily" at the doctor's office at my age the next thing you'll hear is, "do you know how unusual that is?" Our answer to obesity is to accept it, the obese girl is now "curvy" for example, and don't dare "body shame" anyone who is a hundred pounds over weight. What we eat, as well as how much we eat, is a formula for health problems. Fast food chains and super sizing is a way of life in the USofA.
I have little to no sympathy for the Type 2 diabetic who brought it on him/herself because they couldn't push their plate away or settle for only one doughnut (amazing how the ones who drop 150 or so pounds are no longer diabetics, eh?). Type 1 (insulin dependant) diabetics are a whole different ball game, this a matter of genetics. My youngest became a diabetic at 12, an active kid who wasn't a pound overweight (still isn't). It pizzez me off to no end how he and his like get raped by the cost of insulin which they need to stay alive. Big Pharma preys on people who need their products and it's just flat out wrong.
That's a pretty long way of saying I agree with your sentiments.
Type 2 diabetes isn't caused only by people over eating. Life style does have a lot to do with it though. Genetics is also part of it. I was diagnosed 10 years or so ago. Was not overweight. Definitely did not over eat. Mine was caused by not eating and eating at the wrong times coupled with what I ate and a history of diabetes on my mothers side (she wasn't, but a number of her sisters were). I did not eat breakfast. Generally was too busy to eat lunch, so I snacked and had a Mountain Dew. Ate a single meal, dinner, generally around 7 - 8 PM. Had a snack at bedtime, up at 6 the next morning, rinse and repeat. Turns out mine was easy to control. Just eat at regular times and reasonable food, not some magic diet. No insulin, no pills - initially, and exercise a little - not a lot - less than the doctors would tell you is a must. As positive as my results have been, diabetes never really goes away. Once you get it, you've got it. 10 years in I am on pills (started 2 years ago), no insulin, still not overweight, still exercise, but less than the doctors would tell you is necessary. Diet has not really changed, just eating regularly. A1C and other numbers good for my age. Lucky I guess.
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DMac
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Re: Healthcare

Post by DMac »

Am glad you've got it under control, 72. No, not caused ONLY by obesity but way too many Type 2s are diabetics because they ate their way to it. Yours is a whole different deal and for your types, yes I do have sympathy for. I know you know what I'm getting at here, Mickey Dees and our diets are killing us but we just keep super sizing and sitting on our azzez for way too many hours a day. Despite the excuse many use, we can find time to keep ouselves fit if we're motivated to.
jhu72
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Re: Healthcare

Post by jhu72 »

DMac wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:01 am Am glad you've got it under control, 72. No, not caused ONLY by obesity but way too many Type 2s are diabetics because they ate their way to it. Yours is a whole different deal and for your types, yes I do have sympathy for. I know you know what I'm getting at here, Mickey Dees and our diets are killing us but we just keep super sizing and sitting on our azzez for way too many hours a day. Despite the excuse many use, we can find time to keep ouselves fit if we're motivated to.
I do understand your point and actually agree we have way too many people with lazy bad behavior when it comes to lifestyle. I am not looking for sympathy. Mine was caused by choices I made, but in an entirely different direction - over working, not paying attention to my health, stressing the body outside its limits. Neither life style is moderate or healthy.
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dislaxxic
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Re: Healthcare

Post by dislaxxic »

Anybody having any luck with KETO? I have had some luck while not being 100% in as far as overall intake ratios.

The inches have melted off though...so far...

..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
foreverlax
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Re: Healthcare

Post by foreverlax »

We could do a much better job of preventive care but end of life issues are a major issue.
Around 50% of Americans will have some need for "long term care" - either in some variety of facility or home care.

Medicare does not cover this beyond 100 days, so we all better have a plan to buy or self-insure against the costs. For those who can't, the choice for them is be poor so they can get Medicaid.

End of life decisions need to be made by the individual, not by the state and not by some religious groups.
jhu72
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Re: Healthcare

Post by jhu72 »

foreverlax wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:25 am
We could do a much better job of preventive care but end of life issues are a major issue.
Around 50% of Americans will have some need for "long term care" - either in some variety of facility or home care.

Medicare does not cover this beyond 100 days, so we all better have a plan to buy or self-insure against the costs. For those who can't, the choice for them is be poor so they can get Medicaid.

End of life decisions need to be made by the individual, not by the state and not by some religious groups.
Correct.
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runrussellrun
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Re: Healthcare

Post by runrussellrun »

OCanada wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:31 am Most large plans now have a preventive health component. But more importantly genetics play a huge role in whether people develop high: BP, cholesterol, lipids, cancers , heart issues etc. ripple do not have total control over their health status.

This is especially important when preexisting condition coverage will disappear.

We could do a much better job of preventive care but end of life issues are a major issue.

The country can not afford to have its populace not have healthcare/ healthy population and remain competitive.
What's all the lawsuit fuss about, if cancer is genetic?
ILM...Independent Lives Matter
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
DMac
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Re: Healthcare

Post by DMac »

dislaxxic wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:20 am Anybody having any luck with KETO? I have had some luck while not being 100% in as far as overall intake ratios.

The inches have melted off though...so far...

..
I don't doubt KETO will melt the inches off, dis, just like all the other diets will. As you know the real "diet" is between your ears, once you tune in and change your way of life a little it aint hard to lose weight. The diet industry is big biz but it's really nothing more than a head game.
OCanada
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Re: Healthcare

Post by OCanada »

Kind of deciding runrussel is just another brick in the wall of the right wing echo chamber. If you don’t understand genetics and it’s effect on various health issues you aren’t prepared for an adult discussion.

I knew the doctor at what was then City Hospital that brought the issue of asbestos to the fore. I worked for a couple of months in a coal mine in “Bloody” Mingo County W Va. I can talk about black lung and corporate liability. Lawsuits big in both.
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Brooklyn
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Re: Healthcare

Post by Brooklyn »

MDlaxfan76 wrote:
But here is why I think the left blows the argument: When they argue that 'healthcare is a human right, not a privilege.' That blows the minds of folks who value earning what they receive. (often hypocritically, but it's a philosophical POV).



That's because the left (if that is what you wish to call them) adhere to the foundational principles expounded by Jefferson as well as others:



Thomas Jefferson believed that good health was essential to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness – the key American values that are found in the Declaration of Independence. He constantly reminded family and friends that health was a "natural right," just like our rights to liberty and justice. Jefferson argued that a person needed to be healthy to be educated and protect American values like liberty and equality. He said, "You may promise yourself everything – but [without] health, [...] there is no happiness. An attention to health then should take place of every other object."

Jefferson made great efforts to improve public health care. During his five years in Paris, from 1784 to 1789, he worked with a committee to reform the city's ailing public health system.




https://familiesusa.org/blog/thomas-jef ... ealth-care



As always, the far right believes that anyone who believes in this is a "Marxist". They teach that myth even though Marx was born many years after Jefferson wrote about it.
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cradleandshoot
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Re: Healthcare

Post by cradleandshoot »

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/medic ... spartandhp This is one obstacle medicare for all has to overcome. How do you control costs without driving hospitals to suffer?.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
jhu72
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Re: Healthcare

Post by jhu72 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:34 pm https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/medic ... spartandhp This is one obstacle medicare for all has to overcome. How do you control costs without driving hospitals to suffer?.
What is being described in the article is happening now, and is not being caused by Medicare, its caused by the free market. Corporate profit needs to be wrung out of the system and its influence as companies try to maximize it. Rural healthcare is a disaster today because the markets are so small and not worth the effort in addressing them (from the corporate profit perspective). Hospitals use the inflated insurance payments (compared to Medicare) to makeup for the unreimbursed mandates that the republicans love (Reagan). The unreimbursed mandates have to go away -- you know like treating those without health insurance for free. The hospitals need to be paid for services rendered (via Medicare for All).

Rural hospitals will need to be subsidized inside the system, by the city mice. Just one more gift the city mice give to their country cousins. Damn socialism.
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HooDat
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Re: Healthcare

Post by HooDat »

jhu72 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:11 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:34 pm https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/medic ... spartandhp This is one obstacle medicare for all has to overcome. How do you control costs without driving hospitals to suffer?.
What is being described in the article is happening now, and is not being caused by Medicare, its caused by the free market. Corporate profit needs to be wrung out of the system and its influence as companies try to maximize it. Rural healthcare is a disaster today because the markets are so small and not worth the effort in addressing them (from the corporate profit perspective). Hospitals use the inflated insurance payments (compared to Medicare) to makeup for the unreimbursed mandates that the republicans love (Reagan). The unreimbursed mandates have to go away -- you know like treating those without health insurance for free. The hospitals need to be paid for services rendered (via Medicare for All).

Rural hospitals will need to be subsidized inside the system, by the city mice. Just one more gift the city mice give to their country cousins. Damn socialism.
yep!
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
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cradleandshoot
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Re: Healthcare

Post by cradleandshoot »

jhu72 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:11 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:34 pm https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/medic ... spartandhp This is one obstacle medicare for all has to overcome. How do you control costs without driving hospitals to suffer?.
What is being described in the article is happening now, and is not being caused by Medicare, its caused by the free market. Corporate profit needs to be wrung out of the system and its influence as companies try to maximize it. Rural healthcare is a disaster today because the markets are so small and not worth the effort in addressing them (from the corporate profit perspective). Hospitals use the inflated insurance payments (compared to Medicare) to makeup for the unreimbursed mandates that the republicans love (Reagan). The unreimbursed mandates have to go away -- you know like treating those without health insurance for free. The hospitals need to be paid for services rendered (via Medicare for All).

Rural hospitals will need to be subsidized inside the system, by the city mice. Just one more gift the city mice give to their country cousins. Damn socialism.
72, in the surgical center where my wife works many of the docs will not accept medicade patients. They can't make enough money off of the reimbursement rates and way too often they spend many hours haggling with the government to get paid. The 64 thousand dollar question still remains... how do you control costs? I don't see it as a rural/urban problem. These doctors want to make their money and they are hesitant to compromise on what they make. I don't know all of the nuts and bolts but the GI doctors my wife works with make in the ballpark of 2 grand for a 30 minute colonoscopy. The docs my wife works with can't schedule 16 procedures a day in the hospitals they practice from. That is why they do the majority of their cases off site. How does this change under single payer? No one knows. There is one thing I do know as in every medical profession... the best doctors will always charge top dollar.

Two years ago I had a detached retina in my right eye. I went to the very best retinal surgeon I could find. That is the point in time where you are not shopping for the cheapest, you want the best. When you are diagnosed with a detached retina... you have the surgery ASAP or you risk the vision in your eye. In my case I was a few days away from irreparable damage that would have taken the vision in my eye. There is a struggle between getting the best medical care and having to pay for it. How single payer answers how that is accomplished is unknown. I could not have accepted the next retinal surgeon that was available How does single payer deal with situations where the outcome is extremely critical to the patient? If single payers fails then the patient goes blind, doesn't have that polyp removed and winds up with colon cancer and the list goes on.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
jhu72
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Re: Healthcare

Post by jhu72 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:33 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:11 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:34 pm https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/medic ... spartandhp This is one obstacle medicare for all has to overcome. How do you control costs without driving hospitals to suffer?.
What is being described in the article is happening now, and is not being caused by Medicare, its caused by the free market. Corporate profit needs to be wrung out of the system and its influence as companies try to maximize it. Rural healthcare is a disaster today because the markets are so small and not worth the effort in addressing them (from the corporate profit perspective). Hospitals use the inflated insurance payments (compared to Medicare) to makeup for the unreimbursed mandates that the republicans love (Reagan). The unreimbursed mandates have to go away -- you know like treating those without health insurance for free. The hospitals need to be paid for services rendered (via Medicare for All).

Rural hospitals will need to be subsidized inside the system, by the city mice. Just one more gift the city mice give to their country cousins. Damn socialism.
72, in the surgical center where my wife works many of the docs will not accept medicade patients. They can't make enough money off of the reimbursement rates and way too often they spend many hours haggling with the government to get paid. The 64 thousand dollar question still remains... how do you control costs? I don't see it as a rural/urban problem. These doctors want to make their money and they are hesitant to compromise on what they make. I don't know all of the nuts and bolts but the GI doctors my wife works with make in the ballpark of 2 grand for a 30 minute colonoscopy. The docs my wife works with can't schedule 16 procedures a day in the hospitals they practice from. That is why they do the majority of their cases off site. How does this change under single payer? No one knows. There is one thing I do know as in every medical profession... the best doctors will always charge top dollar.

Two years ago I had a detached retina in my right eye. I went to the very best retinal surgeon I could find. That is the point in time where you are not shopping for the cheapest, you want the best. When you are diagnosed with a detached retina... you have the surgery ASAP or you risk the vision in your eye. In my case I was a few days away from irreparable damage that would have taken the vision in my eye. There is a struggle between getting the best medical care and having to pay for it. How single payer answers how that is accomplished is unknown. I could not have accepted the next retinal surgeon that was available How does single payer deal with situations where the outcome is extremely critical to the patient? If single payers fails then the patient goes blind, doesn't have that polyp removed and winds up with colon cancer and the list goes on.
I suggest that the doctors your wife works with need to become more efficient. Lots of other doctors are doing fine with Medicare and even Medicaid reimbursements. Those doctors who don't want to deal with government reimbursement rates can always retire or start a boutique practice catering to folks with money and the ability to pay more. Sounds like what they have now. Don't believe for even one second haggling with the government over payments is even half as problematic as haggling with a for profit insurance company
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