Israel and Zionism

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old salt
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by old salt »

Read Colin Powell's book & review what he demanded before he did his UN show & tell.
6ftstick
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by 6ftstick »

frmanfan wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:42 pm
dislaxxic wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:54 am Good discussion by a couple morning show gasbags today about the VBI (Very Bad Idea) that is a US president making strategic decisions with no "process" whatsoever. They went at length into Shrub Bush's decision to invade Iraq, and how there was never any process, for example, NO NSC sit-down, face-to-face meeting with top decision makers prior to the disastrous decision to go into Iraq.

Making this kind of decision on some sort of "gut" feeling, especially from this uniquely unqualified and incompetent a "decision-maker" was not, is not, nor never SHOULD be a good idea for a process that guides the policy of a country the likes of ours...

..
No process to decide to invade Iraq? Does anybody else remember how this was discussed ad naueum? Colin Powell and his little vial of whatever was in there? Every clandestine service in the EU agreed there was WOMD capability? It may have been a horrible decision, and you can still fault GW for making the decision, but GW didn't make it without some discussion.
2 years of discussion
a fan
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by a fan »

frmanfan wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:42 pm Every clandestine service in the EU agreed there was WOMD capability?
Not even close. Poland was the only European country that agreed with the invasion and/or the intel.

The rest is true. We voted to invade, and had plenty of time to say no. All Dems had to do is vote no. They didn't.
Trinity
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Trinity »

Bush made it a loyalty test and they failed.
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
seriously?
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by seriously? »

Ahead Of Israeli Election, Netanyahu Pledges To Annex West Bank Settlements.
"Will we go to the next phase? The answer is yes. We will go to the next phase to extend Israeli sovereignty."
foreverlax
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by foreverlax »

“Thank you, my dear friend, the president of the United States, Donald Trump, for having decided to designate Iran's Revolutionary Guards as a terrorist organization,” Netanyahu said in a tweet in Hebrew on Monday, according to The Washington Post.

“Thank you for responding to another of my important requests, which serves the interests of our countries and countries of the region,” he continued.
Trump/Putin/Netanyahu....the 3 Amigos.
foreverlax
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by foreverlax »

seriously? wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:38 pm Sooo, was Ilhan Omar that far off the mark with her comments?

"I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is OK for people to push for allegiance to a foreign country. I want to ask why is it OK for me to talk about the influence of the NRA (National Rifle Association), of fossil fuel industries or Big Pharma, and not talk about a powerful lobbying group that is influencing policies?"

Again, Omar was accused of anti-Semitism.
Omar said
Ilhan Omar

@IlhanMN
Stephen Miller is a white nationalist. The fact that he still has influence on policy and political appointments is an outrage. https://bit.ly/2Vunzm5
Jr said
"I see that the head of the Farrakhan Fan Club, @IlhanMN, took a short break from spewing her usual anti-semitic bigotry today to accuse a Jewish man of being a 'white nationalist' because she apparently has no shame," Trump Jr. tweeted in an apparent reference to Louis Farrakhan, the head of the Nation of Islam who has a history of making what some say were anti-Semitic statements.
Where did she hammer Miller for being Jewish?
jhu72
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by jhu72 »

foreverlax wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:26 am
seriously? wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:38 pm Sooo, was Ilhan Omar that far off the mark with her comments?

"I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is OK for people to push for allegiance to a foreign country. I want to ask why is it OK for me to talk about the influence of the NRA (National Rifle Association), of fossil fuel industries or Big Pharma, and not talk about a powerful lobbying group that is influencing policies?"

Again, Omar was accused of anti-Semitism.
Omar said
Ilhan Omar

@IlhanMN
Stephen Miller is a white nationalist. The fact that he still has influence on policy and political appointments is an outrage. https://bit.ly/2Vunzm5
Jr said
"I see that the head of the Farrakhan Fan Club, @IlhanMN, took a short break from spewing her usual anti-semitic bigotry today to accuse a Jewish man of being a 'white nationalist' because she apparently has no shame," Trump Jr. tweeted in an apparent reference to Louis Farrakhan, the head of the Nation of Islam who has a history of making what some say were anti-Semitic statements.
Where did she hammer Miller for being Jewish?
She didn't. Just more Faux Nation propaganda. Small women scare them.
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OCanada
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by OCanada »

Small and strong women. She has shown no evidence she is anti Semitic. AIPAC is only one of a couple of string jewish lobbying arms. I agree with her assessment. Anothe very strong one is J Street. Or you could read Harerz to gain a better perspective.

Trump just met with right wing republicans. On shabbat. It just isn’t done. They are becoming like evangelicals. Losing their religion. There are widening rifts between Israel and the majority of American Jews.
jhu72
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by jhu72 »

OCanada wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:50 pm Small and strong women. She has shown no evidence she is anti Semitic. AIPAC is only one of a couple of string jewish lobbying arms. I agree with her assessment. Anothe very strong one is J Street. Or you could read Harerz to gain a better perspective.

Trump just met with right wing republicans. On shabbat. It just isn’t done. They are becoming like evangelicals. Losing their religion. There are widening rifts between Israel and the majority of American Jews.
Interesting, I thought the same thing. Israel is not making it easier for the average Jewish American to support them, nor 50% of the American population. There will be a price to pay at some point in the future for Israel. Many already see them as having become the thing they supposedly hate and fear most.
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jhu72
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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dislaxxic
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by dislaxxic »

A Middle East Peace Plan Built on Un-American Principles
The Trump administration hasn’t actually released its Middle East peace plan. It’s so close-held that the Palestinians who are to be its object have not been invited into discussions of the subject. But the whispers of those who have been consulted suggest the possibility that the sequencing will commence with economic incentives for Palestinian acceptance of eventual subjugation into the state of Israel—a “one-state solution,” in diplomatic parlance.

If that is the White House senior adviser Jared Kushner’s approach, it would represent a reversal of the administration’s policy, which has until now been focused on imposing economic hardship on Palestinians in order to compel their acceptance of what Kushner terms “facts.”

The secrecy in which the Kushner plan is shrouded has not prevented the president from publicizing the plan as the “deal of the century.” The first stage is to be a “Peace for Prosperity” meeting in Bahrain, at which the administration expects Gulf states to provide $68 billion in investment to the Palestinians, Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon to ease acceptance for subsequent political “facts”—the imposition of unwelcome political outcomes such as moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem.
..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
OCanada
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by OCanada »

So Guess this is the best place to post this... Soufan Center Intelbrief

THE PAUCITY OF 'PEACE TO PROSPERITY’

Bottom Line Up Front:
Under the leadership of Jared Kushner, the administration is attempting to cobble together a peace agreement between Israelis and Palestinians.
The proposal has been harshly criticized by analysts and politicians alike, who note that Washington lacks credibility in the region and can hardly be viewed as an honest broker given the Trump administration’s policies.
Kushner has squandered a vast amount of political capital attempting to advance American interests in the Middle East, with little or nothing to show for it.
Few Arab states attending the conference have expectations of even modest success, much less that it will lead to a serious or prolonged peace initiative.
Under the leadership of President Trump’s son-in-law and foreign policy neophyte Jared Kushner, the administration is attempting to cobble together an approach to forging a peace agreement between Israelis and Palestinians. But to anyone paying close attention, the so-called Peace to Prosperity conference, a two-day event being held in Manama, Bahrain, appears to be a waste of time. The two parties that should be most invested—the Palestinians and the Israelis—have shown little interest to date. It is also impossible at this point for the U.S. to be considered an honest broker in any negotiated peace settlement, not only because of the Trump administration’s cozy relationship with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, but also because of Washington’s decision to move its embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, which officially opened in May. The administration has also defunded the United Nations Relief and Works Agency that provides support to displaced Palestinians.

The Manama conference will primarily focus on economics, not politics, and serve as a venue to help raise the profile of the Trump administration's peace ‘efforts’—and outline of which have remained 'secret' and unlikely to be released until at least the fall. The economic proposals have forecast approximately $50 billion in investment, which includes a boost to tourism and infrastructure projects in the Palestinian territories, Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon. (It is worth noting that none of this funding has actually been allocated yet.) There has also been talk surrounding the development of a transit corridor that would connect the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, something that would likely encounter significant political resistance in Israel.

The timing of the conference is also interesting, taking place against the backdrop of U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s trips to Riyadh and Abu Dhabi, where he is attempting to shore up support for Washington’s escalating confrontation with Iran. The Trump administration may be hoping for some kind of quid pro quo with the Saudis, highlighting America’s willingness to confront Iran, Saudi Arabia’s primary rival, while asking for Riyadh’s support in pushing forward a peace deal amenable to the Palestinians. So far, Kushner has squandered a vast amount of political capital attempting to advance American interests in the Middle East, with little or nothing to show for it in terms of tangible results.

Worse, comments coming from the Trump administration in the lead-up to Manama have already served to undermine the tenets of the conference. In early June, U.S. ambassador to Israel David Friedman noted that 'under certain circumstances…Israel has the right to retain some, but unlikely all, of the West Bank.' This serves to reinforce to the Palestinians that whenever the administration's plan is finally unveiled, it will favor Israel at the Palestinians' expense. Few Arab states attending the conference in Bahrain have expectations of even modest success, much less the confidence that it will lead to a serious or prolonged peace initiative resembling anything close to a sustainable agreement. The proposed deal also places critical American allies like Jordan in an awkward position, desperate not to alienate itself from the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, but also wary of the domestic backlash if Amman agrees to support what is clearly a bad deal for the Palestinians.
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Brooklyn
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

U.S. Jews are more likely than Christians to say Trump favors the Israelis too much

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... -too-much/


While U.S. Jews have a strong attachment to Israel, they are divided in their assessment of Trump’s handling of the Israeli-Palestinian issue, according to a new Pew Research Center survey. Roughly four-in-ten (42%) say they think Trump is favoring the Israelis too much ... By comparison, Christians in the United States are more likely to say Trump is striking the right balance between the Israelis and Palestinians (59%) than to say Trump favors the Israelis too much (26%)



Some right wingers are inclined to think that any such criticism constitutes anti semitism. Yeah, good luck with trying to direct such criticism against those Jewish thinkers above.
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dislaxxic
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by dislaxxic »

Trump’s racism and Netanyahu’s dependency have driven a bulldozer through the bipartisan consensus.

"Trump’s racism and Netanyahu’s dependency have brought us to this point. Israel is showing disrespect to the U.S. Congress and looking afraid to engage Americans who disagree with it. Together, they have produced deep alienation among some of Israel’s closest friends in the Democratic Party, such as House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, who led a large delegation to Israel just last week. They have provoked deservedly harsh criticism of Israel’s decision from progressive and minority Democratic constituencies, the rising American majority. And they have elevated Tlaib and Omar into heroes.

What a bulldozer to drive through the bipartisan consensus on Israel. What a gift to the BDS movement, which until now, most Americans had never heard of."

..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
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old salt
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by old salt »

Yeah. Let's make BDS & the Terrorist Caucus an issue going into the election.

Omar & Talib would not agree to follow the jointly approved CODEL itinerary.
They want to freelance around Gaza & the West Bank. What could go wrong ?
Israel denies visas to BDS activists. Justifiable on security grounds.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/implementat ... travel-ban

Last March {2017} , the Knesset, Israel’s parliament, passed an amendment requiring the interior minister to deny entry to Israel to foreign nationals who “knowingly issued a public call to boycott the state of Israel,” “pledged to participate in said boycott” or act on behalf of a group or an organization that have done so. The amendment was part of the Israeli government’s effort to combat the global BDS (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions) movement.

Critics of the ban have argued that democracies should not fear criticism and opposition, no matter how repugnant and ill-motivated some may find it, or be in the business of tracking political activists and compiling blacklists. But as a matter of law, there seems to be little prohibiting Israel from banning BDS activists from entering its territory.
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old salt
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by old salt »

Former Israeli Amb to US explains on PBS, why Talib & Omar's freelance trip was denied.
They would have been welcomed on the freshman CODEL there now.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/israe ... -different

This is a standoff that Talib has been engineering since before she entered Congress.
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4195 ... r-freshman
foreverlax
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by foreverlax »

For such bada$$es, Trump and Bebe sure seem snowflakey over a couple of non-players. What are they so afraid of, the truth?

edit to add -

never mind, time to punt

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/16/politics ... index.html
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by wahoomurf »

Trump has ceded leadership of the American Government to Putin, Kim Jong-un and the Sheik of Araby. Will "Good Buddy BIBI ", turn Israel over Trump? Stay tuned.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by HooDat »

So, Tlaib says she wants to go to Israel to visit her grandmother. Israel turns her down based on established precedent of not allowing visitors that promote BDS. She complains that politics are getting in the way of family. Israel makes a humanitarian based exception for her on the condition that she not participate in protests, but instead just visits her family - she says "no".

The whole thing sounds like a made up controversy on the part of Tlaib - and the only objective I can see is to try to make Israel look bad.
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
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