Trump's Russian Collusion

[jhu72]

The regrettable conclusion (to square Tulsi, for example) is the Dem Party is now the party of Permanent War, a rueful post formerly occupied by the Cheney wing of the Republican Party. I can not accept for the life of me how this Party's voice has evolved.

Look, I'm no massive Trump fan, but at least he's stayed out of new wars (do you think for a second Hillary wouldn't be bombing the living hole out of Iran by now??!!) and as importantly he's done something regarding the American prison-industrial complex, as shameful a stain on American society as even slavery. Meanwhile, Dems now idolize prosecutors of dime-bags of weed such as Kamala Harris. It's astounding to a guy like me what has become of the Dem Party platform.

I don't see Tulsi winning, but her voice is a voice of sanity in a party which has gone off the rails...and I lay a ton of the nuttiness at Twitter, which I don't use, but certainly hear a ton of. The constancy of labeling every Republican one way or the other is insanity. I don't think Dems are the same as the Party, nor do I feel the same as Republicans to their Party. But the Dem Party voice imo is more stridently attacking.

The only Permanent War the democratic party is interested in fighting is the one against the POS who occupies the White House and his supporters.

No Hillary would not be bombing the hell out of Iran, she would have continued to live to the letter of the Iran agreement! For someone who is not a Trump supporter, you sure do parrot the talking points. Just more what about ism.

If a republican doesn't want to be lumped in with POS in the White House, then IT IS LONG PAST TIME to have come out in opposition to the scum bag. No one gets any points for not being a strong supporter. Trump and his behavior, lack of any moral value system, lack of concern for anything but his own well being is and has been a serious problem for this nation - It is time to beans or get off the pot!

[RedFromMI]

The whistleblower complaint is actually available - and it goes beyond just one phone call.

Unclassified version (it looks like some stuff in appendices as been removed):

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploaded ... nclass.pdf

Allegations:

1. President was asking Ukrainian leadership to investigate two things (2016 election conspiracy theory and both Bidens) and was conditioning US cooperation with their government unless he got them. The Ukrainians were quite aware of what the President was asking, and what were the conditions.

2. Summary of call with Zelensky was not kept in the normal place within the government but on a server intended for special highly classified information (looks like a coverup - my comment) so normal access within the government would not be possible.

3. Both Giuliani and Barr appeared to have some involvement with this effort, especially within the contents of the phone call.

4. There is a significant discussion of the efforts of Giuliani outside the normal diplomatic channels, and the issues involving the Ukrainian transition and the early removal of the US ambassador to Ukraine.

Pretty much all of this supports not only what has been officially release so far, but also the general reporting of the MSM, such as the NTY, WaPo and the WSJ. There seems to be little difference in what the whistleblower is alleging and what the Democrats are complaining about.

You have a President using the considerable power of US foreign policy and monetary/military equipment support to require a foreign government to dig up dirt on his political opponents. This is such an egregious violation of the oath of office for any government official. Given that the President is involved, and that the only remedy that can stop that behavior is impeachment, that is the way that the Democrats must go. Even if unsuccessful in removing Trump from office, I think they have no choice.

The fact that his R allies in Congress don't like what is happening (impeachment process) has more to do with their fear of both the Trump base (really now the R base) and the fear that if Trump is removed the Rs will undergo an electoral bloodbath in 2020. But if they leave Trump in place, they are in effect condoning Presidential behavior that is appalling and dangerous.

[RedFromMI]

The regrettable conclusion (to square Tulsi, for example) is the Dem Party is now the party of Permanent War, a rueful post formerly occupied by the Cheney wing of the Republican Party. I can not accept for the life of me how this Party's voice has evolved.

Look, I'm no massive Trump fan, but at least he's stayed out of new wars (do you think for a second Hillary wouldn't be bombing the living hole out of Iran by now??!!) and as importantly he's done something regarding the American prison-industrial complex, as shameful a stain on American society as even slavery. Meanwhile, Dems now idolize prosecutors of dime-bags of weed such as Kamala Harris. It's astounding to a guy like me what has become of the Dem Party platform.

I don't see Tulsi winning, but her voice is a voice of sanity in a party which has gone off the rails...and I lay a ton of the nuttiness at Twitter, which I don't use, but certainly hear a ton of. The constancy of labeling every Republican one way or the other is insanity. I don't think Dems are the same as the Party, nor do I feel the same as Republicans to their Party. But the Dem Party voice imo is more stridently attacking.

The Dem's are the party of war?? Good one.

It hasn't dawned on you that MSNBC, which I dunno but seems to me to be the most amplified DNC voice available, is the home of every war-booster in America now (with the sole exception of the odious Cheney family), all of whom simultaneously beseech you for a vote for the Democrat Party?

read this excellent article: https://theintercept.com/2019/01/11/as- ... publicans/

Greenwald? C'mon...

[jhu72]

The whistleblower complaint is actually available - and it goes beyond just one phone call.

Unclassified version (it looks like some stuff in appendices as been removed):

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploaded ... nclass.pdf

Allegations:

1. President was asking Ukrainian leadership to investigate two things (2016 election conspiracy theory and both Bidens) and was conditioning US cooperation with their government unless he got them. The Ukrainians were quite aware of what the President was asking, and what were the conditions.

2. Summary of call with Zelensky was not kept in the normal place within the government but on a server intended for special highly classified information (looks like a coverup - my comment) so normal access within the government would not be possible.

3. Both Giuliani and Barr appeared to have some involvement with this effort, especially within the contents of the phone call.

4. There is a significant discussion of the efforts of Giuliani outside the normal diplomatic channels, and the issues involving the Ukrainian transition and the early removal of the US ambassador to Ukraine.

Pretty much all of this supports not only what has been officially release so far, but also the general reporting of the MSM, such as the NTY, WaPo and the WSJ. There seems to be little difference in what the whistleblower is alleging and what the Democrats are complaining about.

You have a President using the considerable power of US foreign policy and monetary/military equipment support to require a foreign government to dig up dirt on his political opponents. This is such an egregious violation of the oath of office for any government official. Given that the President is involved, and that the only remedy that can stop that behavior is impeachment, that is the way that the Democrats must go. Even if unsuccessful in removing Trump from office, I think they have no choice.

The fact that his R allies in Congress don't like what is happening (impeachment process) has more to do with their fear of both the Trump base (really now the R base) and the fear that if Trump is removed the Rs will undergo an electoral bloodbath in 2020. But if they leave Trump in place, they are in effect condoning Presidential behavior that is appalling and dangerous.

There is no choice to be made. There is no politics. There is right and there is wrong. The republicans standing around pulling on their puds are in the wrong! They are as bad as Orange Duce - Scum bags!

[a fan]

But the Dem Party voice imo is more stridently attacking.

Uhhhh----they're the minority party. Maybe head on over to Ann Arundel Community College and take a class on American Civics, they'll explain why the party that isn't in power seems to be "stridently attacking".

[Brooklyn]

Step One: Impeachment

Step Two: Removal

Step Three:






Lock him up!

[seacoaster]

WB Complaint:

https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/s ... nclass.pdf

It seems to add a criminal conspiracy to keep the records away from anyone else because of the unlawful nature of the call. Seems to me we need the complete, verbatim transcript?

[seacoaster]

"The impeachment brouhaha is yet more political posturing with tons of deceptive editing and completely unhelpful to the man on the street (in fact, counter-productive to those of us who like a good economy)."

I think impeachment the discussion over an impeachment inquiry and maybe, the authorization of articles of impeachment and proceedings in the Senate is completely unrelated to "a good economy." Comments like this are suggestive of a lack of overall discernment. Essentially, this is an opinion that stands for the proposition that if the economy is doing OK, then I just want to close my eyes and ears to any talk about fidelity to the Constitution and the traditional norms of governing.

"...tons of deceptive editing."

Umm, what? Most of us are, at this point, just working from two sources: the "transcript" of the President's conversation with the President of Ukraine, and our understandings of the manner in which statecraft is to be conducted in carrying out the public trust. That is to say, no editing at all.

Your post doesn't make me unhappy; it makes me think you should give a little more attention to civics, the structure and function of government, the oath of office, basic fiduciary principles, and the Constitution. Maybe back to fall ball along Charles Street.

I am afraid seaoaster you are the one who is in need of revisiting the transcript. I posted the actual transcript, maybe read it.

This is the same nonsense as the old/new NYT Kavanaugh revelations (proven false the day they are released) and the Russia-gate conspiracy where we are assured Trump will be indicted. Not everything is Watergate. Maybe be more cynical with your approach to stories which confirm your bias?

I read it, and posted my thoughts on it yesterday. Gotta catch up!

[tech37]

I hope you dopey guys who bad mouthed the DNI have been listening to him today...class act!

[foreverlax]

I hope you dopey guys who bad mouthed the DNI have been listening to him today...class act!

He has done a great job of explaining his rational and seem to be "sensible" .

[a fan]

So class acts can't break laws, tec? Or be a tad...how do I say this?....daft?

This man just told Congress that the sitting President isn't part of the Intel Community.

Do you agree?

No. No one does. I agree that he comes across as honest. And he does not sound like a partisan. Not even a little.

And how do you explain his decision to tell the White House counsel that there's a WB complaint against the President? That's NOWHERE in the WB law..

He made some ridiculous decisions, and it's pretty clear that this task was over his head.

[tech37]

So class acts can't break laws, tec? Or be a tad...how do I say this?....daft?

Break laws? The laws within this highly charged political context are completely subjective. Good luck trying to find consensus on the meaning of any law within this mess.

[foreverlax]

So class acts can't break laws, tec? Or be a tad...how do I say this?....daft?

This man just told Congress that the sitting President isn't part of the Intel Community.

Do you agree?

No. No one does. I agree that he comes across as honest. And he does not sound like a partisan. Not even a little.

And how do you explain his decision to tell the White House counsel that there's a WB complaint against the President? That's NOWHERE in the WB law..

He made some ridiculous decisions, and it's pretty clear that this task was over his head.

I struggle with the concept that Trump isn't part of the IC...it's like saying he isn't a member of our armed services.

My impression of why he went to OLG feels reasonable.

Going to the WH for legal counsel...yea, that bugs me and don't see how that isn't a conflict.

Barr, should recuse himself from this issue...maybe Jeff wasn't all that bad.

[foreverlax]

So class acts can't break laws, tec? Or be a tad...how do I say this?....daft?

Break laws? The laws within this highly charged political context are completely subjective. Good luck trying to find consensus on the meaning of any law within this mess.

Subjective? Which specific laws are you referencing?

So far the DNI hasn't had indicated it's as extreme as you suggest. There is a real complexity when considering POTUS - since he is "above the law"

[a fan]

If you're going to play dumb and tell me that "it's subjective" as to whether or not the President is a member of our Intel community, sure, tech.

Might as well argue whether water is wet or not while we're at it.

[a fan]

My impression of why he went to OLG feels reasonable.

What's the OLG?

Going to the WH for legal counsel...yea, that bugs me and don't see how that isn't a conflict.

Of COURSE it's a conflict. Follow the law, give it to the Intel Committee, and let THEM decide.

[foreverlax]

My impression of why he went to OLG feels reasonable.

What's the OLG?

Going to the WH for legal counsel...yea, that bugs me and don't see how that isn't a conflict.

Of COURSE it's a conflict. Follow the law, give it to the Intel Committee, and let THEM decide.

Office of Legal Counsel

[Bandito]

Lol. What a pathetic topic. Democrats have no message other than to rail for impeachment with no facts to back up their delirious claims. This is the end of the Democrat Party, thankfully. The party of lies, sex crimes, racism, bigotry, fascism and nazism finally going where it belongs, down the toilet.

[LandM]

many of you out here are going to impeach yourself for another 4 years of what you hate right now - the hysteria is overboard and so is the hatred - yeah Hunter got that oil and gas company contract because he was a great business man in that industry - alrighty

The only thing if he lasts long enough is that the Hillary email saga gets a final look as that is a bad look and that Clinton Foundation accounting is reviewed as I am sure that was all above aboard.

I do not like the guy but I am glad he is punching people in the face - about time the protected class step down a notch and play fair. Doubtful it will happen but it would be nice.

[ggait]

Chris Christie (former US Attorney fyi) yesterday:

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/pre-transcr ... e-a-favor/

TL/DR -- Christie says the Dems are over-reacting. But says it would be a big problem if, for example, Trump said something like "Do me a favor. Go investigate Biden."

And to follow up on Fan's point. What is an innocent/legit public policy or purpose for Trump discussing (i) Russia didn't do it/Crowdstrike/Seth Rich conspiracy theory, (ii) Biden and his son, and (iii) Bob Mueller? JFC fellas.

Last, of course what Hunter Biden was doing was sleazy. $600k is a ridiculous sum for an annual director fee, and of course he was picked because of who his dad was rather than because of his expertise in the Ukrainian energy industry. But we've seen that one many times before -- from Billy Beer to Neil Bush to Eric/Jr/Ivanka. While not illegal, I wouldn't be surprised if it winds up tanking the Biden ship (which is already taking on water).

It is all up to you Lizzie -- go beat Pence!!