Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

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Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

ChairmanOfTheBoard wrote:
Typical Lax Dad wrote:
frmanfan wrote:Here is the problem with college.

Not everyone is college material. In fact, most are not.

Approximately 80% of kids graduate from high school. So 8 in 10.

Recent numbers show about 62% of high school graduates go on to college. So 62% of 8 is about 50% of the original number, so 5 in 10 of the original kids go to college.

Of those who go to college, about half get a degree in six years. So 2.5 of the original 10 get a degree.

Not all get degrees in fields that are employable. (Insert your favorite joke line here, like "women's studies".)

We would better use our time and tax dollars fixing K-10 education, teaching reading/writing/'rithmatic, in other words, those skills that teach critical thinking and analyzing skills. Then, IMO, test kids to see which ones qualify to go on to grades 11-12, likely losing 1/4 to 1/3 of them, who could then go out and join the workforce instead of being forced to finish two years of school that doesn't interest them anyway. Beef up trade schools if you want to. Many jobs require people who can think and do, not college grads.

And focus especially on inner city schools, which are falling further behind every year as we focus on "college for all".
Before I got through your post I was going to add that we need to improve the input to get a better output. College isn’t for everyone but we should do a better job of preparing more kids for college because on average a four year college degree leads to better life results. College isn’t for everyone. My father did not have a college degree but he was much smarter than me and I have an advanced degree. He even taught himself how to read and write Sanskrit, for example.
agreed.

personal story- i skipped core subjects like physics and anatomy to take... auto shop. in hindsight, sure, a terrible decision. i stunk of petrol each day in school and afterwards at practice. the students werent as savory. but i loved it and i use those skills today. just like hoodat (youre not alone!).

and also agreed with frmfan's comment about where are focus is. wont more college degrees just flood the market with unhappy overqualified 22 year olds, and entice colleges to raise tuition even higher, and then have the govt service the loans and grace periods, and then eventually pay for it all.

i like the idea of critical thinking. id rather teach someone how to analyze, how to think, how to teach themselves, rather than to merely regurgitate on a periodic examination. but that requires much effort and thought.
I took shop classes in high school. Wasn't for me. A lot of kids ended up taking jobs at metal shops and tier 3 auto suppliers. They are the raw material for hillbilly elegy......it is easy to point out the Renaissance Arts Major that can't get a job. That's not most students...just like most high school dropouts don't become Bill Gates....take a trip to Boston and watch those buildings empty out at the end of the day... or Atlanta. Tech corridor. I imagine most have college degrees..... often you go to college to learn how to learn.....
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youthathletics
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by youthathletics »

Not quite the exact spot to post but this is priceless and quite sad: https://www.facebook.com/17279362664824 ... 240866911/
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
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Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote:Not quite the exact spot to post but this is priceless and quite sad: https://www.facebook.com/17279362664824 ... 240866911/
Going to school now a Days is a waste of time. You should discourage all the people that you know to avoid college at all costs, particularly if the don’t live in a few metropolitan pockets where commercial development is booming.
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youthathletics
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by youthathletics »

Who pissed in your Wheaties this morning? :lol: The sad part was the common core method to doing simple multiplication.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
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Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote:Who ticked in your Wheaties this morning? :lol: The sad part was the common core method to doing simple multiplication.


More than one way to multiply. The new method will make it easier as problem sets become more complex....let’s go backwards...MAGA
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youthathletics
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by youthathletics »

Remember with common core you MUST show your work. Try doing the Japanese method of 987*999 with a 4th grader. You'd need a full sheet of paper to draw all those lines, then have to count every single dot.
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Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote:Remember with common core you MUST show your work. Try doing the Japanese method of 987*999 with a 4th grader. You'd need a full sheet of paper to draw all those lines, then have to count every single dot.
The Japanese are showing their work. Anyway, the point is there are different ways to skin a cat. Have a Merry Christmas
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ToastDunk
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by ToastDunk »

My son heads out to Navy Boot Camp in less than a week's time, and while he's ready and excited to begin this next chapter, I must admit to having a couple wrestles nights. Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% behind him and his decision to serve (which took shape back when he was entering his junior year in HS). His route? 4 years of college with a degree in Intelligence Studies (including 3 years of lax) and now enlisting in the Navy (with a clear goal in mind). Sure, he could have saved us (and himself) some $$$ enlisting right out of HS, but I believe the education & college experience will serve him well in the military. A path that might be more common than you think.
DMac
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by DMac »

No worries, TD, he'll be fine, an ex-laxer will handle boot camp like a walk in the park.
Couple of questions, you know what rate (job) he's going in as...one of the intelligence rates, I'd guess..IS, maybe?
All of them in that rate (several different ones within that rate) are a pretty sharp lot.
Uncle Sam paying off any student loans for him?
He go in as an E-3 right off the bat?
Going to Great Lakes?
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

ToastDunk wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:30 pm My son heads out to Navy Boot Camp in less than a week's time, and while he's ready and excited to begin this next chapter, I must admit to having a couple wrestles nights. Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% behind him and his decision to serve (which took shape back when he was entering his junior year in HS). His route? 4 years of college with a degree in Intelligence Studies (including 3 years of lax) and now enlisting in the Navy (with a clear goal in mind). Sure, he could have saved us (and himself) some $$$ enlisting right out of HS, but I believe the education & college experience will serve him well in the military. A path that might be more common than you think.
CONGRATULATIONS!
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ToastDunk
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by ToastDunk »

DMac wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:47 pm No worries, TD, he'll be fine, an ex-laxer will handle boot camp like a walk in the park.
Couple of questions, you know what rate (job) he's going in as...one of the intelligence rates, I'd guess..IS, maybe?
All of them in that rate (several different ones within that rate) are a pretty sharp lot.
Uncle Sam paying off any student loans for him?
He go in as an E-3 right off the bat?
Going to Great Lakes?
Yeah, I agree, the kid will be fine. He's so ready to go.

So, surprisingly (to me at least), Uncle Sam doesn't pay off any of his student loan.

He does go in as an E-3, so there's one perk of having the college degree.

And yes, he'll be up in Great Lakes, which apparently is going to have wind chills of -50 degrees over the next couple of days. That sounds like that movie "The Day After Tomorrow."
DMac
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by DMac »

That surprises me but I'm sure these programs change from time to time (Navy must not be having too much trouble filling their quotas...just a guess).

This is just from Google:
"The Army, Navy and Air Force offer programs to help soldiers pay back their student loans. For applicants who qualify, the Army will pay up to $65,000 of student loans, as will the Navy, although the Navy earmarks payments for loans taken to fund post-secondary education."
Once he gets through boot camp I'd advice him to speak with a career counselor, I'd bet there are some programs out there that will help him with those loans.
Wish him well (he'll be fine, some super adventures await him), oh, and GO NAVY!!!
jhu72
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by jhu72 »

Just one more grift from the masters of grift. For profit solves so many problems. :roll:
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by Brooklyn »

Image


True, all too often.
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by Brooklyn »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:52 pm

Going to school now a Days is a waste of time. You should discourage all the people that you know to avoid college at all costs, particularly if the don’t live in a few metropolitan pockets where commercial development is booming.



So true.


Two-thirds of American employees regret their college degrees



https://www.cbsnews.com/news/two-thirds ... e-degrees/



Two-thirds of employees report regrets about their advanced degrees, as Americans question the high cost of higher education.
Student loan debt has ballooned to nearly $1.6 trillion nationwide in 2019, topping the list of regrets for employees.
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by ChairmanOfTheBoard »

related- https://www.theatlantic.com/education/a ... er/594550/
Has College Gotten Too Easy?

If grades are improving but there’s no reason to think that students have become better students, an interesting possibility is raised: The unassuming, academic way Denning puts it in a recent paper (co-authored with his BYU colleague Eric Eide and Merrill Warnick, an incoming Stanford doctoral student) is that “standards for degree receipt” may have changed. A less measured way of saying what that implies: College may have gotten easier.

It could well be the case, he said, that “schools are just better at helping students” than they used to be. Indeed, many colleges have launched initiatives to help more students graduate, but the effectiveness of these programs varies, and Denning said he does not have specific-enough data to analyze their role in rising graduation rates nationwide.

Denning and his co-authors acknowledged this possibility, noting in their paper that altering what’s necessary to get a degree is “the lowest cost way to increase graduation rates.” But colleges’ widespread use of this tactic, conscious or not, is at this point just guessed at and far from proven.
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by ChairmanOfTheBoard »

About one in five Gen Z and young millennials say they may choose not to go to college. Many others see a less conventional path through education as a good idea. Over 30% of Gen Z — and 18% of young millennials — said they have considered taking a gap year between high school and college.

Is a college degree necessary?
Parents still think so. Nearly all — 96% — of parents surveyed in the TD Ameritrade study said they do expect their kids to go to college. But a lot of young Americans don’t think a four-year degree is essential. About half — 49% — of young millennials said their degree was “very or somewhat unimportant” to their current job. Only 27% of parents said the same.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/half- ... 2019-08-06
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Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

ChairmanOfTheBoard wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:57 am
About one in five Gen Z and young millennials say they may choose not to go to college. Many others see a less conventional path through education as a good idea. Over 30% of Gen Z — and 18% of young millennials — said they have considered taking a gap year between high school and college.

Is a college degree necessary?
Parents still think so. Nearly all — 96% — of parents surveyed in the TD Ameritrade study said they do expect their kids to go to college. But a lot of young Americans don’t think a four-year degree is essential. About half — 49% — of young millennials said their degree was “very or somewhat unimportant” to their current job. Only 27% of parents said the same.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/half- ... 2019-08-06
College isn't job training.
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by HooDat »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:02 pm College isn't job training.
the problem is that they SELL it like it is. And they certainly charge for it like it is.

I am a big fan of the idea of education for the betterment of the self. But be straight about what is (or at least should be) going on - a liberal arts education is an INDULGENCE. And an expensive one at that. Of course being well read, and honing your ability to think critically and communicate well are great life skills.

But that is not what colleges tell their students they are getting - the message is "come to college to get a better job"
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

HooDat wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:58 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:02 pm College isn't job training.
the problem is that they SELL it like it is. And they certainly charge for it like it is.

I am a big fan of the idea of education for the betterment of the self. But be straight about what is (or at least should be) going on - a liberal arts education is an INDULGENCE. And an expensive one at that. Of course being well read, and honing your ability to think critically and communicate well are great life skills.

But that is not what colleges tell their students they are getting - the message is "come to college to get a better job"
The likelihood of getting a better job is true. I am the product of a liberal arts education. I could not afford an indulgence....thinking, communicating, working in a group and the ability to learn goes along way. There are plenty of vocational schools.


" Too many college graduates: that is a very odd claim, because the economic evidence for the value of a college degree is overwhelming. For example, in 2014, economists Jaison Abel and Richard Deitz of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York estimated the average annual return on investment from a college degree, net of tuition paid and lost earnings, at between 9 percent and 16 percent per year for a lifetime.[1] For the last two decades, the return on investment has hovered at the high end of that range, around 15 percent per year.
By comparison, the historical average return on investments in the American stock market is around 7 percent per year."

That's a good bet.
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