Texas HS Lacrosse

HS Boys Lacrosse
Surfs_Up
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by Surfs_Up »

Wow. That is pretty impressive. did Drip have its full roster?
laxman
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by laxman »

they had 2 teams a D1 and D2
ghostofstblax
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by ghostofstblax »

laxman wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:40 pm Jesuit will win states and go undefeated.

They have been recruiting like crazy and they literally have 3 teams. Their D2 team is only sophomores and beat Drip Springs this weekend. 11-1
Jesuit will have a solid team, but won't go undefeated. I doubt they are "recruiting like crazy" as it would jeopardize their UIL status they spent years and lots of $ to get. Football is still king in TX so they wouldn't let the lax team drive the bus off the cliff for the rest of the teams. I still think WL is team to beat. I wouldn't put too much in early season scrimmages.
LaxLurker
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by LaxLurker »

Jesuit doesn't recruit...that's a good one. It's called Iron Horse
ghostofstblax
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by ghostofstblax »

LaxLurker wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:22 pm Jesuit doesn't recruit...that's a good one. It's called Iron Horse
I was referencing the concept of them paying an inducement to get a player to come to Jesuit or offering free tuition to come to Jesuit. In that definition, I don't think they recruit.

If you feel that Surran uses Iron Horse to expose kids and parents to the Jesuit Lacrosse program and Jesuit as an educational alternative, then perhaps you are right. But remember the parents are paying to play for Iron Horse. So it is a unique situation where people pay to be "recruited to Jesuit". I do completely agree that there a number of kids who without Iron Horse would not have exposed to Jesuit as an alternative. Jesuit and the Jesuit Lacrosse program has benefited from this exposure. If that's your perspective than I agree with you.

I would also like to point out for all the private schools that it requires a significant financial commitment to attend STM, ESD, or Jesuit so if the local HS program was a great alternative or likely even close - many of these kids would remain there. What these programs have that alot of the publics that struggle with transfers is: Stable Coaching Staffs and Consistent School support. Kids and parents see that the programs at many publics are treated as a step child and in some cases purposely denied resources. Add the inherent politics that comes from Parent driven programs and you have the perfect opportunity for kids and parents to be "recruited" away.
Surfs_Up
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by Surfs_Up »

If one was to move to Dallas and was interested in high quality lacrosse, its obvious where they would go.

Private school route
ESD
Dallas Jesuit
St Marks

Public
Highland Park
Southlake Carroll

Am I missing any other good programs in Dallas?
LaxLurker
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by LaxLurker »

ghostofstblax wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:58 pm
LaxLurker wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:22 pm Jesuit doesn't recruit...that's a good one. It's called Iron Horse
I was referencing the concept of them paying an inducement to get a player to come to Jesuit or offering free tuition to come to Jesuit. In that definition, I don't think they recruit.

If you feel that Surran uses Iron Horse to expose kids and parents to the Jesuit Lacrosse program and Jesuit as an educational alternative, then perhaps you are right. But remember the parents are paying to play for Iron Horse. So it is a unique situation where people pay to be "recruited to Jesuit". I do completely agree that there a number of kids who without Iron Horse would not have exposed to Jesuit as an alternative. Jesuit and the Jesuit Lacrosse program has benefited from this exposure. If that's your perspective than I agree with you.

I would also like to point out for all the private schools that it requires a significant financial commitment to attend STM, ESD, or Jesuit so if the local HS program was a great alternative or likely even close - many of these kids would remain there. What these programs have that alot of the publics that struggle with transfers is: Stable Coaching Staffs and Consistent School support. Kids and parents see that the programs at many publics are treated as a step child and in some cases purposely denied resources. Add the inherent politics that comes from Parent driven programs and you have the perfect opportunity for kids and parents to be "recruited" away.
My comment was tongue in cheek....no Jesuit is not paying kids to come to their school. Yes, getting exposure to Jesuit through IH highlights the difference b/w a well run, well coached program like Jesuit and most of the parent driven/schizophrenic public programs. IH/Jesuit have done a lot of great things for DFW lacrosse, but I do not think it is healthy for the sport in the long run for them to continue to hoover up a great majority of the talent with a DI,DII and JV team. Which, ultimately is the public HS fault for not offer a compelling alternative for the kids who want to play at a high level....which is a really long discussion.
ghostofstblax
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by ghostofstblax »

LaxLurker wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:28 am
ghostofstblax wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:58 pm
LaxLurker wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:22 pm Jesuit doesn't recruit...that's a good one. It's called Iron Horse
I was referencing the concept of them paying an inducement to get a player to come to Jesuit or offering free tuition to come to Jesuit. In that definition, I don't think they recruit.

If you feel that Surran uses Iron Horse to expose kids and parents to the Jesuit Lacrosse program and Jesuit as an educational alternative, then perhaps you are right. But remember the parents are paying to play for Iron Horse. So it is a unique situation where people pay to be "recruited to Jesuit". I do completely agree that there a number of kids who without Iron Horse would not have exposed to Jesuit as an alternative. Jesuit and the Jesuit Lacrosse program has benefited from this exposure. If that's your perspective than I agree with you.

I would also like to point out for all the private schools that it requires a significant financial commitment to attend STM, ESD, or Jesuit so if the local HS program was a great alternative or likely even close - many of these kids would remain there. What these programs have that alot of the publics that struggle with transfers is: Stable Coaching Staffs and Consistent School support. Kids and parents see that the programs at many publics are treated as a step child and in some cases purposely denied resources. Add the inherent politics that comes from Parent driven programs and you have the perfect opportunity for kids and parents to be "recruited" away.
My comment was tongue in cheek....no Jesuit is not paying kids to come to their school. Yes, getting exposure to Jesuit through IH highlights the difference b/w a well run, well coached program like Jesuit and most of the parent driven/schizophrenic public programs. IH/Jesuit have done a lot of great things for DFW lacrosse, but I do not think it is healthy for the sport in the long run for them to continue to hoover up a great majority of the talent with a DI,DII and JV team. Which, ultimately is the public HS fault for not offer a compelling alternative for the kids who want to play at a high level....which is a really long discussion.
I think we are generally in agreement. I would also say I agree with you that having a program have a D1 and a D2 program is counter productive to encouraging new programs and growth. If programs want to have both a D1 and D2 program I don't think the D2 program should be eligible for post season play, but that's just my opinion. I think the focus should be on finding ways to encourage new public programs. Some of these initiatives might be detrimental to Jesuit, ESD, and STM, but I think they will be fine long term.
washedupobserver
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by washedupobserver »

Surfs_Up wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:28 pm If one was to move to Dallas and was interested in high quality lacrosse, its obvious where they would go.

Private school route
ESD
Dallas Jesuit
St Marks

Public
Highland Park
Southlake Carroll

Am I missing any other good programs in Dallas?
In Austin you would want to play at Westlake and in houston you would want to play for the Woodlands....but those are public schools how did they crack the code?
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HooDat
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by HooDat »

washedupobserver wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:35 pm but those are public schools how did they crack the code?
well coached and cohesive feeder programs.
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
Surfs_Up
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by Surfs_Up »

The challenge for Texas lacrosse is to capture athletes at a young age. Lacrosse isn;t well known in Texas still, so most parents put their kids in soccer, baseball or basketball in spring.

The word is getting out and kids get recruited from friends and different years are better than others based on the amount of kids that got recruited and stayed with it.

Football is still king and 7v7 is a competitor in the spring too in middle school and that also takes kids. The benefit of going UIL, would get more kids to play and football coaches would support it.
LaxLurker
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by LaxLurker »

I'm pretty familiar with a few of the public programs. I'd say the code is as follows:

-Recruit like crazy at 1-4th grades, keep cost low and make it fun
-Have a quality HS coach (who is also the program director) that is involved at the youth level, is paid well and personality "fits" the community
-Paid coaches (no daddy ball) at MS and above
-Have a board that supports the coach and gets out of his way
-Consistently work on the relationship with the school district. Its a huge help if the HS football coaches support the lax program in some form.
-Make HS as much like a UIL sport as possible. Practice and play at the school, same uniforms, kids play FB/BB and lacrosse
-Make sure your board turns over every 2-3 years. Board volunteers get burned out and/or overly focused on their sons class and forget about the other kids
-Crack the code on club lacrosse...you want a club team that for better or worse focuses on "your" players and gets them into the system and gets them more games/touches outside of the spring season (similar to IH and the parochial schools). Managing the competing interests b/w town and club ball is difficult but not impossible.
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HooDat
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by HooDat »

Surfs_Up wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:48 am The benefit of going UIL, would get more kids to play and football coaches would support it.
people keep saying this, but I don't see it that way. UIL will kill the public school's access to coaches - because UIL coaches must be employees of the school. Most of the public school (and many private school) coaches are not.

Having lacrosse UIL sanctioning would not fix lax/football relations. Either the football coach is going to be supportive, or he is not. Most want their speed guys playing 7v7 and are pissed if a guy shows up in the fall banged up from summer lacrosse.

Interestingly, while football reigns supreme in Texas - injuries and particularly concussions are starting to take a toll on kids who play. I know a lot of current high school kids who have dropped football because they want to keep their brains intact.
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
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HooDat
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by HooDat »

laxlurker has it right.
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
LaxLurker
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by LaxLurker »

HooDat wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:12 pm
Surfs_Up wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:48 am The benefit of going UIL, would get more kids to play and football coaches would support it.
people keep saying this, but I don't see it that way. UIL will kill the public school's access to coaches - because UIL coaches must be employees of the school. Most of the public school (and many private school) coaches are not.

Having lacrosse UIL sanctioning would not fix lax/football relations. Either the football coach is going to be supportive, or he is not. Most want their speed guys playing 7v7 and are ticked if a guy shows up in the fall banged up from summer lacrosse.

Interestingly, while football reigns supreme in Texas - injuries and particularly concussions are starting to take a toll on kids who play. I know a lot of current high school kids who have dropped football because they want to keep their brains intact.
It's a bit more nuanced than UIL will "kill access to coaches". There are quite a few coaches making a living coaching AAU basketball, club volleyball, summer select baseball etc. Lacrosse will figure it out. At the end of the day Texas needs to grow the coaching ranks from Texas, importing coaches from the East coast is expensive. UIL would bring many more HS players/teams into the fold, increasing the number of players and more opportunities for coaches who do not want to teach (ie - club ball, 1 on 1 training etc).

As for not being able to pay for non ISD employees to coach UIL Lacrosse initially that is not true. If you look at competitive cheer which is the most recent "emerging UIL sport" they are allowed to have paid non ISD coaches. Taking a leap that Texas Lacrosse could actually get organized and think long term the first few years of UIL inclusion the sport would be "emerging" and allow for paid, non ISD coaches. Which would allow for a smooth (than people think) transition.

As for injuries...I agree 100%, parents and kids are starting to take notice and looking for other opportunities.
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Matnum PI
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by Matnum PI »

Don't freak out. Yes, these are the national rankings. Yes Pearland is top of the pile. And... It's because teams are ranked based on Ws and Ls and St. Anthony's, for example, hasn't played yet and teams like Memorial have played, have beaten Pearland, but... They've only played one game. None the less, TX is dominating the National Rankings! :)

http://app.fanlax.com/category/ranking/24/2020
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TexasLax
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by TexasLax »

Westlake battling injuries and illness. They canceled their scrimmages in Waco scheduled for this weekend.
TexasLax
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by TexasLax »

Westlake beats the Woodlands and ESD this past weekend. My top 4 are Jesuit, Weatlake, ESD and HP.
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Matnum PI
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by Matnum PI »

It's VERY early in the season and FAR too many teams haven't played enough games for the Rankings to be solid but... Dallas Jesuit and Westlake are #1 and #2. :)

http://app.fanlax.com/category/ranking/24/2020
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Doid23
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Re: Texas HS Lacrosse 2020

Post by Doid23 »

Great discussion above about programs. Reasoned, civil disagreement, intelligent discourse, who knew that existed on the internet :D ?

A few thoughts:
* Jesuit is definitely different than ESD and St. Marks. What they have with IH is unique, and definitely a competitive advantage. I agree that they don't recruit, but they are a school that emphasizes athletics, compete at a high level in 6A in many sports, and attract kids who are athletically inclined. And IH is a great sales pitch. Good for them.
* ESD and St Marks don't have near the strength of program that Jesuit has. ESD focuses on the varsity, they have no D2 program, and their JV program is part feeder, part student participation. St Marks not only doesn't have a D2 program, they haven't even had a JV team for the past several years, and won't anytime soon. Neither ESD or St Marks have a feeder program even close to IH and Deuces (in fact, some of the better players at SM and ESD play for IH)
* I'm not sure if UIL status would be good or bad for Lacrosse, but it's not going to happen anytime soon.
* As to football coaches supporting lacrosse if it went UIL, I don't believe that would happen. One of the big differences between the East Coast and Texas that I've found is that most Texas football coaches do not support lacrosse, would much rather have their players running track, attending spring practice, and lifting. I don't see becoming a UIL sport changing that.
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