NY- CHSAA 2020

HS Boys Lacrosse
wahoomurf
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Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by wahoomurf »

I had no idea O'Neill played FB at St.A.'s. I knew Danenza did. Does Naso play FB?

If I understand these arcane rules correctly, a kid is ineligible to play 5 years if he transfers in from a private school.But he transfers in from a public school, he gets a green light to play a 5th year.

Makes sense. :? :shock: :?: :roll:
FlyerFan2001
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Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by FlyerFan2001 »

I think O'Neill returned to the gridiron for his senior year...He was listed on the JV roster as a freshman, but was not on the 2018 or 2019 varsity rosters...He had quite the game on Friday (2 sacks in a win over Farrell)...His natural power and athleticism translates well to the DL.

No Naso on the Friar football roster.
FlyerFan2001
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Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:22 pm

Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by FlyerFan2001 »

Another day, another Friar headed to Durham...

Congratulations to Andrew McAdorey on his verbal commitment to Duke University.

With Coach D. effectively working these STA/Team 91 connections, the Blue Devils are putting themselves in position to build a dynasty.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... jGojKyEWik
wahoomurf
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Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by wahoomurf »

FlyerFan2001 wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:43 pm Another day, another Friar headed to Durham...

Congratulations to Andrew McAdorey on his verbal commitment to Duke University.

With Coach D. effectively working these STA/Team 91 connections, the Blue Devils are putting themselves in position to build a dynasty.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... jGojKyEWik
That young man is a stud!.JD works his magic once again.Duke has become St.Anthony's South.Naso,The Big O ,Danenza AND McAdorey---what a haul.
LaxtillIdrop
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Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by LaxtillIdrop »

I agree he's a stud, it's the "young" man part that I question. What's he 22?
wahoomurf
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Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by wahoomurf »

LaxtillIdrop wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:47 pm I agree he's a stud, it's the "young" man part that I question. What's he 22?
He just turned 18.
LILaxfan
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Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by LILaxfan »

wahoomurf wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:38 pm
LaxtillIdrop wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:47 pm I agree he's a stud, it's the "young" man part that I question. What's he 22?
He just turned 18.
You realize you aren’t supposed to turn 18 in the middle of your junior year of high school right?
LILaxfan
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Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by LILaxfan »

FlyerFan2001 wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:15 pm My understanding of the situation is that the rule is not necessarily new; it just has never really been enforced consistently.

Chaminade argued that if moving forward the league wants to have a tougher restriction, that is fine; but any kid already enrolled should be grandfathered in as a means of fairness....The school lost in court.

Since I heard all of this second-hand, I could be a little off on my responses; but I think the fact that it was the basketball schools pushing for the judgement against OC is why O'Neill may have been ignored; no one was protesting O'Neill's eligibility, so it was out of sight, out of mind.

Apparently the NYSPHSAA did not care either way; they took a hands-off approach and told the league they can do as they like.
The understanding of the situation is wrong. The chaminade player played 2 years of high school sports at a public school in 7th and 8th grade, then went to LuHi to reclassify and took 8th grade again, but did not play sports. He then went to Chaminade. NYS has a rule that says you can play high school sports for 6 years. His senior year at chaminade would have been his 7th year. They appealed to the state and the state said no. Has nothing to do with any local decision. It was take out of their hands. The players father tried to game the system by essentially having him “red shirt” when at LuHi and not play. The state said that doesn’t matter.
wahoomurf
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Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by wahoomurf »

LILaxfan wrote: Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:37 pm
wahoomurf wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:38 pm
LaxtillIdrop wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:47 pm I agree he's a stud, it's the "young" man part that I question. What's he 22?
He just turned 18.
You realize you aren’t supposed to turn 18 in the middle of your junior year of high school right?
Really? I never read that in my copy of "THE SUPPOSED TO MANUAL". Mine's a bit dog-eared as I received my copy, along with Dr.Spock's weighty tome,when my first child was born. :shock: Are you aware that he had a case of..........and repeated 2nd grade?

The Texas version states "if a male child's birth weight is above 9 lbs,9 ozs he MUST be held back at the age of 5 for one year and possibly 2 years". FOOTBALL talks and cow pies walk.
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DeepPocket
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Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by DeepPocket »

I love this conversation. Here is my experience, not that anyone is asking- Growing up on Long Island, with a birth month that was on the cusp, I could’ve gone in either grade. For a multitude of reasons, I wound up being in the upper grade, and among the younger kids in it.

I wasn’t anywhere near the smallest kid, but certainly felt the difference on the field. And I thought about it in high school, as I had friends 2-3 WEEKS younger than me in the grade below, who excelled at their level of play, due in part, to being more physically mature among their peers from day one of elementary rec.

It was even more pronounced on the lacrosse field as an underclassman in college. Fall ball at 17 years old among many 22 year olds, that’s a big developmental difference (unless you’re a man child).

Realistically lacrosse wasn’t going to be my ticket, even if I had been held back 3 years :D. And ultimately entering the workforce a year earlier in life has made the decision a net gain. Based on my personal experiences, I won’t consider any sort of grade shuffling for my kids *if* solely for athletic purposes.
MAC - The SEC of DIII lacrosse.
LILaxfan
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Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by LILaxfan »

wahoomurf wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:20 pm
LILaxfan wrote: Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:37 pm
wahoomurf wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:38 pm
LaxtillIdrop wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:47 pm I agree he's a stud, it's the "young" man part that I question. What's he 22?
He just turned 18.
You realize you aren’t supposed to turn 18 in the middle of your junior year of high school right?
Really? I never read that in my copy of "THE SUPPOSED TO MANUAL". Mine's a bit dog-eared as I received my copy, along with Dr.Spock's weighty tome,when my first child was born. :shock: Are you aware that he had a case of..........and repeated 2nd grade?

The Texas version states "if a male child's birth weight is above 9 lbs,9 ozs he MUST be held back at the age of 5 for one year and possibly 2 years". FOOTBALL talks and cow pies walk.
Good point. We should hold kids back to have a decided advantage over all the rest. Makes sense. The player in question is an unbelievable player. Would be an unbelievable player if he were in the correct grade (Class of 2020). I am sick of hearing how great these “young” players are all the time. They aren’t young. Their parents manipulated the system. Club lacrosse should go to birth year just like soccer, hockey, etc. If that was the case we would see how willing parents would be to single their children out as older than everyone else. If there is a legitimate reason, so be it. If it is for athletic gain, it will be clear.
wahoomurf
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Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by wahoomurf »

If the parents manipulate "the system" so be it. Wealthier folks can pony up $30,000 + shekels so Johnny or Janey can get a PG year.

Managing "loopholes" is an art form.Think taxes,elections, the "legal process"...etc.

I suspect Christian and faith based institutions have tighter control than do public schools.🥍🏈🏀
Peter Brown
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Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by Peter Brown »

wahoomurf wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:11 pm If the parents manipulate "the system" so be it. Wealthier folks can pony up $30,000 + shekels so Johnny or Janey can get a PG year.

Managing "loopholes" is an art form.Think taxes,elections, the "legal process"...etc.

I suspect Christian and faith based institutions have tighter control than do public schools.🥍🏈🏀


hey wahoomurf: I posted this in the MIAA section, but thought you should know: a Baltimore team is coming north for Spring Break! St. Paul's, playing Iona Prep and Yorktown; no Long Island teams, but still, a nice effort on the part of that school/coach to venture north instead of sunny Florida!)
wahoomurf
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Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by wahoomurf »

Rick used to bring St.Paul's up to Garden City for years.He was a terrific guy as were the parents of the players.We used to look forward to those games.
njlax1234
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Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by njlax1234 »

Not sure if I'm in the right forum, but I'm just curious as to how the New York State Playoffs work. Why is it that Chaminade and St. anthony's don't play for a state championship and are the only teams in their group? How come some years there is no aaa championship at all?
FlyerFan2001
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Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by FlyerFan2001 »

njlax1234 wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:00 am Not sure if I'm in the right forum, but I'm just curious as to how the New York State Playoffs work. Why is it that Chaminade and St. anthony's don't play for a state championship and are the only teams in their group? How come some years there is no aaa championship at all?
They do play for a state championship, just not a NYSPHSAA sanctioned title...With the Catholic league, you have some sports where Catholic States serve as a qualifier (wrestling for example) for a federation tournament; in others (football, lacrosse, hockey), the inter-Catholic title contest is the culmination of the season.

Because, as you pointed out, Chaminade/St. Anthony's are the only two AAA teams, the Nassau-Suffolk League Championship game has been used in the past as a double title game, where the winner is also declared AAA Catholic State Champs.

A few years ago (2018), they experimented with doing away with the "AAA" and having the Flyers/Friars compete in AA....Both teams cruised to the downstate inter-sectional tournament finals [Won by Chaminade]...And then Chaminade went on and won convincingly over St. Joe's Collegiate in the official state title game...The one-sidedness of this finals kind of demonstrated the justification for putting them in their own separate category; there is a competitive imbalance, so rather than having a charade where the same two teams get to the end every year anyway, they opted for multiple classifications were solid programs like kMHS, Iona Prep, Fordham Prep, are evenly matched and have a chance to play for a crown....Football does the same thing with their A, AA-1, AA-2, and AAA distinctions. It is a means of putting "apples against apples" as opposed to having a "banana constantly beating up on apples" :-)

Starting last season, I believe the two teams have elected to scrap the tournament entirely...Instead, they just play a home-and-home (with the game in May being treated as "unofficial" title game)..In truth, there is no actual championship contest; if the two teams split the match-ups, they are co-champs. If one team sweeps, then they are the league + state champs...Could be mistaken, but I think the winner in May does get the trophy though.

By eliminating the tournament, it allowed both schools to pursue a more ambitious non-league schedule. Being that both are always vying for national crowns, the freedom in scheduling enabled them to build stronger national resumes.

Sorry for the long-winded answer. Hope I answered everything to your satisfaction.
njlax1234
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Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by njlax1234 »

FlyerFan2001 wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:26 pm
njlax1234 wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:00 am Not sure if I'm in the right forum, but I'm just curious as to how the New York State Playoffs work. Why is it that Chaminade and St. anthony's don't play for a state championship and are the only teams in their group? How come some years there is no aaa championship at all?
They do play for a state championship, just not a NYSPHSAA sanctioned title...With the Catholic league, you have some sports where Catholic States serve as a qualifier (wrestling for example) for a federation tournament; in others (football, lacrosse, hockey), the inter-Catholic title contest is the culmination of the season.

Because, as you pointed out, Chaminade/St. Anthony's are the only two AAA teams, the Nassau-Suffolk League Championship game has been used in the past as a double title game, where the winner is also declared AAA Catholic State Champs.

A few years ago (2018), they experimented with doing away with the "AAA" and having the Flyers/Friars compete in AA....Both teams cruised to the downstate inter-sectional tournament finals [Won by Chaminade]...And then Chaminade went on and won convincingly over St. Joe's Collegiate in the official state title game...The one-sidedness of this finals kind of demonstrated the justification for putting them in their own separate category; there is a competitive imbalance, so rather than having a charade where the same two teams get to the end every year anyway, they opted for multiple classifications were solid programs like kMHS, Iona Prep, Fordham Prep, are evenly matched and have a chance to play for a crown....Football does the same thing with their A, AA-1, AA-2, and AAA distinctions. It is a means of putting "apples against apples" as opposed to having a "banana constantly beating up on apples" :-)

Starting last season, I believe the two teams have elected to scrap the tournament entirely...Instead, they just play a home-and-home (with the game in May being treated as "unofficial" title game)..In truth, there is no actual championship contest; if the two teams split the match-ups, they are co-champs. If one team sweeps, then they are the league + state champs...Could be mistaken, but I think the winner in May does get the trophy though.

By eliminating the tournament, it allowed both schools to pursue a more ambitious non-league schedule. Being that both are always vying for national crowns, the freedom in scheduling enabled them to build stronger national resumes.

Sorry for the long-winded answer. Hope I answered everything to your satisfaction.
Okay I kind of get it now thank you. I could be wrong, but couldn’t St. Anthony’s and Chaminade be competitive with some public schools like Ward Melville. In New Jersey there’s two non-public state tournaments and four public tournaments and the winners of each meet for a Tournament of Champions. This allows for very competitive public schools to meet with the very competitive private schools. For example, last year Mountain Lakes beat Delbarton in the final and they are crowned the overall state champion. I understand why they don’t want those two schools beating up on everybody else in the tournament, but I feel like there should be some way to put the two best teams in the state on the field together for the last game, assuming that Chaminade and St. Anthony’s aren’t the two best every single year(I think Victor was really good a couple years ago).
Also is the balance of powers within NY private schools really that off? In New Jersey Seton Hall Prep and Delbarton have been the two best for the last few years, but there’s other very competitive schools such as Don Bosco and St. Augustine. Is it really that top heavy in NY?
pcowlax
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Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by pcowlax »

njlax1234 wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:47 pm
FlyerFan2001 wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:26 pm
njlax1234 wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:00 am Not sure if I'm in the right forum, but I'm just curious as to how the New York State Playoffs work. Why is it that Chaminade and St. anthony's don't play for a state championship and are the only teams in their group? How come some years there is no aaa championship at all?
They do play for a state championship, just not a NYSPHSAA sanctioned title...With the Catholic league, you have some sports where Catholic States serve as a qualifier (wrestling for example) for a federation tournament; in others (football, lacrosse, hockey), the inter-Catholic title contest is the culmination of the season.

Because, as you pointed out, Chaminade/St. Anthony's are the only two AAA teams, the Nassau-Suffolk League Championship game has been used in the past as a double title game, where the winner is also declared AAA Catholic State Champs.

A few years ago (2018), they experimented with doing away with the "AAA" and having the Flyers/Friars compete in AA....Both teams cruised to the downstate inter-sectional tournament finals [Won by Chaminade]...And then Chaminade went on and won convincingly over St. Joe's Collegiate in the official state title game...The one-sidedness of this finals kind of demonstrated the justification for putting them in their own separate category; there is a competitive imbalance, so rather than having a charade where the same two teams get to the end every year anyway, they opted for multiple classifications were solid programs like kMHS, Iona Prep, Fordham Prep, are evenly matched and have a chance to play for a crown....Football does the same thing with their A, AA-1, AA-2, and AAA distinctions. It is a means of putting "apples against apples" as opposed to having a "banana constantly beating up on apples" :-)

Starting last season, I believe the two teams have elected to scrap the tournament entirely...Instead, they just play a home-and-home (with the game in May being treated as "unofficial" title game)..In truth, there is no actual championship contest; if the two teams split the match-ups, they are co-champs. If one team sweeps, then they are the league + state champs...Could be mistaken, but I think the winner in May does get the trophy though.

By eliminating the tournament, it allowed both schools to pursue a more ambitious non-league schedule. Being that both are always vying for national crowns, the freedom in scheduling enabled them to build stronger national resumes.

Sorry for the long-winded answer. Hope I answered everything to your satisfaction.
Okay I kind of get it now thank you. I could be wrong, but couldn’t St. Anthony’s and Chaminade be competitive with some public schools like Ward Melville. In New Jersey there’s two non-public state tournaments and four public tournaments and the winners of each meet for a Tournament of Champions. This allows for very competitive public schools to meet with the very competitive private schools. For example, last year Mountain Lakes beat Delbarton in the final and they are crowned the overall state champion. I understand why they don’t want those two schools beating up on everybody else in the tournament, but I feel like there should be some way to put the two best teams in the state on the field together for the last game, assuming that Chaminade and St. Anthony’s aren’t the two best every single year(I think Victor was really good a couple years ago).
Also is the balance of powers within NY private schools really that off? In New Jersey Seton Hall Prep and Delbarton have been the two best for the last few years, but there’s other very competitive schools such as Don Bosco and St. Augustine. Is it really that top heavy in NY?
I think you probably aren’t trolling, I guess. Do you want a real answer to this?
FlyerFan2001
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Re: NY- CHSAA 2020

Post by FlyerFan2001 »

njlax1234 wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:47 pm
FlyerFan2001 wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:26 pm
njlax1234 wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:00 am Not sure if I'm in the right forum, but I'm just curious as to how the New York State Playoffs work. Why is it that Chaminade and St. anthony's don't play for a state championship and are the only teams in their group? How come some years there is no aaa championship at all?
They do play for a state championship, just not a NYSPHSAA sanctioned title...With the Catholic league, you have some sports where Catholic States serve as a qualifier (wrestling for example) for a federation tournament; in others (football, lacrosse, hockey), the inter-Catholic title contest is the culmination of the season.

Because, as you pointed out, Chaminade/St. Anthony's are the only two AAA teams, the Nassau-Suffolk League Championship game has been used in the past as a double title game, where the winner is also declared AAA Catholic State Champs.

A few years ago (2018), they experimented with doing away with the "AAA" and having the Flyers/Friars compete in AA....Both teams cruised to the downstate inter-sectional tournament finals [Won by Chaminade]...And then Chaminade went on and won convincingly over St. Joe's Collegiate in the official state title game...The one-sidedness of this finals kind of demonstrated the justification for putting them in their own separate category; there is a competitive imbalance, so rather than having a charade where the same two teams get to the end every year anyway, they opted for multiple classifications were solid programs like kMHS, Iona Prep, Fordham Prep, are evenly matched and have a chance to play for a crown....Football does the same thing with their A, AA-1, AA-2, and AAA distinctions. It is a means of putting "apples against apples" as opposed to having a "banana constantly beating up on apples" :-)

Starting last season, I believe the two teams have elected to scrap the tournament entirely...Instead, they just play a home-and-home (with the game in May being treated as "unofficial" title game)..In truth, there is no actual championship contest; if the two teams split the match-ups, they are co-champs. If one team sweeps, then they are the league + state champs...Could be mistaken, but I think the winner in May does get the trophy though.

By eliminating the tournament, it allowed both schools to pursue a more ambitious non-league schedule. Being that both are always vying for national crowns, the freedom in scheduling enabled them to build stronger national resumes.

Sorry for the long-winded answer. Hope I answered everything to your satisfaction.
Okay I kind of get it now thank you. I could be wrong, but couldn’t St. Anthony’s and Chaminade be competitive with some public schools like Ward Melville. In New Jersey there’s two non-public state tournaments and four public tournaments and the winners of each meet for a Tournament of Champions. This allows for very competitive public schools to meet with the very competitive private schools. For example, last year Mountain Lakes beat Delbarton in the final and they are crowned the overall state champion. I understand why they don’t want those two schools beating up on everybody else in the tournament, but I feel like there should be some way to put the two best teams in the state on the field together for the last game, assuming that Chaminade and St. Anthony’s aren’t the two best every single year(I think Victor was really good a couple years ago).
Also is the balance of powers within NY private schools really that off? In New Jersey Seton Hall Prep and Delbarton have been the two best for the last few years, but there’s other very competitive schools such as Don Bosco and St. Augustine. Is it really that top heavy in NY?
Yes, several of the top public schools on Long Island are very competitive with the two private school powerhouses

It's not in tournament format, but during the course of the regular season, you do see a lot of crossover games where Chaminade or St. Anthony's will face a top public.

I am more familiar with Chaminade (obviously) so I'll tell you that pretty much every year, we schedule Massapequa and Manhasset (Regs Rock), and seem to have Ward Melville and West Islip slotted a lot of times as well.

Last year, there were a few conflicts and the games with the two Suffolk schools did not end up happening.

I don't know the exactly W/L records over the years, but from observation, I'd say we have gotten the better of the exchanges, but certainly have suffered more than a few losses too.

As far as the question about parity in the CHSAA, the best way I can answer it is that tradition seems to lead to the stacking of the two programs. Think Alabama football or Duke basketball...Because there is that history of perennial success, when it comes time to choose a high school, parents tend to send their kid to the schools with the best track record of producing DI players.

There is a heavy Cham/STA influence at a club like Express, which also is great asset because it allows the schools to establish relationships with kids at younger ages.

Finally, I think one of the reasons why a school like Kellenberg is good, but not where they could be, is that they are hurt by the "sister school" relationship they share with Chaminade.

Not just in lax, but in several sports, the Firebirds have had some very promising talent passing through their Brother Fox Latin School. Unfortunately, retaining those top kids has been problematic. The majority of the upper tier seem to find their way to Mineola as freshmen...
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