2021 Cancellations

D3 Mens Lacrosse
boredatwork
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2021 Cancellations

Post by boredatwork »

Looks like Swarthmore is the first domino to fall...not looking good

https://swarthmoreathletics.com/news/20 ... ng-21.aspx
Njlaxx11
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by Njlaxx11 »

i understand D3 lacrosse isn't a money maker - but if professional sports, a majority of college sports can do it - why can't lacrosse?
Dips_lax
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by Dips_lax »

It's not a money maker in a traditional sense and given its current scale it would never compete with bball or fball. That said it does make money for most d3 schools in that top tier lacrosse programs will attract 45-50 highly educated student athletes that pay near full tuition in many cases.

It is good for the schools for tuition/board fees, broaden the profile mix of the student-body and some cases these athletes may or may not target these schools otherwise. Athletics is good for the overall college experience, loyalty to the school and student engagement. Making any decisions based solely on incremental $ it brings to the university is TV rights, tix sales, merchandising is completely misguided.

Would Nescac and Centennial rather have 45 full tuition students or 45 partial student tuitions. There is a premium many families will pay for the athletics in addition to the academics. That is the reality.

Swarthmore, IMHO, acted way too prematurely....
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Matnum PI
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by Matnum PI »

Dips_lax wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:48 am Swarthmore, IMHO, acted way too prematurely....
Cancelling during the Fall for a Spring sport. I dunno. I don't get it. Why so early? How does this benefit anyone or anything?
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thescottharris
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by thescottharris »

Njlaxx11 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:10 am i understand D3 lacrosse isn't a money maker - but if professional sports, a majority of college sports can do it - why can't lacrosse?
The NCAA guidelines for testing are very expensive to follow. It’s one of the reasons why D3 fall sports is basically non-existent.
baxendale
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by baxendale »

Farfromgeneva
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Dips_lax wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:48 am It's not a money maker in a traditional sense and given its current scale it would never compete with bball or fball. That said it does make money for most d3 schools in that top tier lacrosse programs will attract 45-50 highly educated student athletes that pay near full tuition in many cases.

It is good for the schools for tuition/board fees, broaden the profile mix of the student-body and some cases these athletes may or may not target these schools otherwise. Athletics is good for the overall college experience, loyalty to the school and student engagement. Making any decisions based solely on incremental $ it brings to the university is TV rights, tix sales, merchandising is completely misguided.

Would Nescac and Centennial rather have 45 full tuition students or 45 partial student tuitions. There is a premium many families will pay for the athletics in addition to the academics. That is the reality.

Swarthmore, IMHO, acted way too prematurely....
Those two conferences have adequate endowments and acceptance rates, along with the type of demographics that don’t need full payer lacrosse students. Swarthmore? What’s their acceptance rate, like 10-15%? Want to talk about the E8, MAC or USAC or maybe NCAC sure that’s correct but not so much.
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Dips_lax
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by Dips_lax »

I don't know - I think its a mixed bag on the endowments. Agree on average endowments are larger than the rest of the d3 population but if that's the case why are they making this purely a financial issue?....... Acceptance rates is fair but you need to look at the rate of acceptance paying full price. At some of these schools varsity sports are 25-30% of the student body. I would gather the on average more of this population pays full freight compared to the average student and athletic alumni groups is a large source of said endowments....

From a profile perspective, the schools like a mix/balance of the student body. Without varsity sports the campuses will look completely different. Who knows if this would create a longer term issue in attractiveness of these very small schools. if D3/Nescac/Cent pulls away from athletics I could see a lot of these kids going to bigger schools and playing club where they fund the athletics more or less themselves.

I stand by my statement - I think turning their back on importance of athletics is short sided and reactionary. I do feel long run it will be a negative to the schools whether they believe that or not.
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Matnum PI
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by Matnum PI »

Dips_lax wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:04 am I stand by my statement - I think turning their back on importance of athletics is short sided and reactionary.
Agreed. Especially by liberal arts colleges. Sports are important.
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oldlaw
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by oldlaw »

Agree with how important all sports are at D3 schools--do not forget how sports alumni are strong financial and emotional supporters of their institutions and how many help recruit student athletes to their institutions....Additionally, sports are one of the few activities that are the "glue" on many campuses.
Some D3 schools need to be bold leaders and not sheep...….
Lurker
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by Lurker »

I've heard the NCAA is putting a lot on the schools... almost as it it were intentional. NCAA doesn't want to be the bad guy and cancel so they make it very difficult for schools to comply with their protocols so schools will pull the plug themselves.

That said, strictly from the standpoint of dealing the virus, I really don't see how/why spring sports couldn't be played. As I mentioned on the D3 women's board, it appears that covid doesn't spread easily during game play. Last summer there were club lax tournaments, AAU basketball, etc. and I didn't hear of many covid outbreaks tracked back to those. I coach girls HS lax and I had 12 girls on 4 different club teams play in tournaments in 6 different states against teams from all over the country and not one of my girls or their club teammates got covid.

Fall sports at the high school level are being held in several states right now without major issues (obviously some issues but not overwhelming). D1 football is happening, again with some issues, but not insurmountable. All these college and NFL teams with covid cases haven't tracked one case back to spread from a game. In fact, the day before the Tennessee Titans outbreak, they played the Vikings and not one Viking got covid after 10-12 Titans tested positive.

By spring 2021 there might be a vaccine (if we trust it) but regardless they'll have had a year's worth of evidence and experience and should know how to treat it.

Teams can like wearing masks, space out lockers or eliminate locker room use all together (our football team dresses in a basketball gym with chairs spaced 10 feet apart in all directions), use bigger buses and have players sit every other seat, etc. It can be done.

We can't hide from this virus forever. As some point we have to learn to live with it. And if there's a liability issue... I'd have to believe the vast majority of players would sign waivers if it meant they got to have their season.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by Farfromgeneva »

As someone who played football and tennis and Hobart (and William Smith I guess I have to include) and lived with a bunch of lacrosse friends for three years there I always argue for the value of athletics. Think it’s especially important for more generic liberal arts schools which sadly under the prior regime I would have to include HWS in (small example would be dropping from 57th -72nd in USNWR, at least, National liberal arts rankings and having flat endowment or contemporary Treasury Yield type returns over two decades to sub $250mm today), to provide as many offerings as is economically feasible. But I don’t think it matters at all for NESCAC, swarthmore, large chunks of the CC and LL and some ODAC schools (at least W&L), etc. I seriously doubt those schools in the top 50 in said rankings (totally unimportant but as a threshold or baseline) would be long or short term impacted by such a decision.

Given the demographics, every school defined as regional, not in a top tier Midwest or NE liberal arts and even some basic state schools (I hear the SUNY system is looking at consolidating though it won’t be the four university centers) has to make these decisions extra judiciously but I don’t think it matters one bit to Swarthmore. That was my point.
Last edited by Farfromgeneva on Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
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Carroll81
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by Carroll81 »

Rumor is ODAC will make a decision this coming weekend.
LILaxGuy08
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by LILaxGuy08 »

D3 Winter Sports are starting to cancel all competition:

NEWMAC
https://www.newmacsports.com/general/20 ... 1019gv93q8

SUNYAC
https://sunyacsports.com/general/2020-2 ... 1019lptsbh

GNAC
https://www.thegnac.com/general/2020-21 ... 1102ikhwjm

UFAA
https://uaasports.info/sports/general/2 ... rstatement

I would assume more to come.

What does that mean for the spring?
JBFortunato
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by JBFortunato »

Lurker wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:59 am I've heard the NCAA is putting a lot on the schools... almost as it it were intentional. NCAA doesn't want to be the bad guy and cancel so they make it very difficult for schools to comply with their protocols so schools will pull the plug themselves.

That said, strictly from the standpoint of dealing the virus, I really don't see how/why spring sports couldn't be played. As I mentioned on the D3 women's board, it appears that covid doesn't spread easily during game play. Last summer there were club lax tournaments, AAU basketball, etc. and I didn't hear of many covid outbreaks tracked back to those. I coach girls HS lax and I had 12 girls on 4 different club teams play in tournaments in 6 different states against teams from all over the country and not one of my girls or their club teammates got covid.

Fall sports at the high school level are being held in several states right now without major issues (obviously some issues but not overwhelming). D1 football is happening, again with some issues, but not insurmountable. All these college and NFL teams with covid cases haven't tracked one case back to spread from a game. In fact, the day before the Tennessee Titans outbreak, they played the Vikings and not one Viking got covid after 10-12 Titans tested positive.

By spring 2021 there might be a vaccine (if we trust it) but regardless they'll have had a year's worth of evidence and experience and should know how to treat it.

Teams can like wearing masks, space out lockers or eliminate locker room use all together (our football team dresses in a basketball gym with chairs spaced 10 feet apart in all directions), use bigger buses and have players sit every other seat, etc. It can be done.

We can't hide from this virus forever. As some point we have to learn to live with it. And if there's a liability issue... I'd have to believe the vast majority of players would sign waivers if it meant they got to have their season.
This is the smartest thing I've seen on Fanlax since March 14th. What a concept, a sensible approach!

As far as I can tell the ODAC, for example, has had very few cases in their student populations, and many of their lacrosse programs - along with other sports programs - have been holding practices for some time. Here's hoping that the presidents of those schools, and schools in similar conferences, take a sensible and bold approach and move forward with winter and spring sports.
nehslaxfan
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by nehslaxfan »

I agree, this makes all the sense in the world. A lot can happen in the next 3 months but based upon what is going on right now with numerous sports playing and managing through any covid related issues hopefully the presidents and ad's will find a way to play this spring.
SimpleLax
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by SimpleLax »

I agree with the sentiment of wanting spring seasons but given the recent trends, related state travel restrictions and need for schools to probably make decisions for spring play in December before semesters end, it is not looking promising. The NCAA does seem to be pushing the responsibility to the schools for decision making but this announcement last week about another blanket waiver for eligibility will provide cover for all those schools leaning towards cancelling the spring. It’s nice the NCAA is providing what appears to be 2 years of additional eligibility for these kids now but at the DIII level, how many will/can utilize the additional eligibility. They play in DIII instead of DI for several reasons but most prominent is talent level, with exceptions. Since most DIII schools do not have masters programs and D1 schools, which is likely destination for masters programs, already dealing with backlog of players with additional eligibility leaves very little opportunity for these kids to use the NCAA granted eligibility waivers. Very sad and unceremonious end to a lot of lax careers. Gives further credence to picking a school you can see yourself being at even if you do not play a sport any longer.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/med ... t-athletes
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Matnum PI
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by Matnum PI »

SimpleLax wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:10 amGives further credence to picking a school you can see yourself being at even if you do not play a sport any longer.
Good point.
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VTLaxGuy
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by VTLaxGuy »

As mentioned by others, the NCAA announced last week that pretty much everybody gets an extra year of eligibility if they were enrolled in school this year. Now schools can bring kids back with hopes of playing this spring, pull the rug out from under them in February (after classes have started and housing deposits can't be refunded) and then, thanks to the NCAA being so generous to give kids the extra year, try to get the kid to pay an extra year of tuition to use the extra eligibility. (It's a win-win for everybody but the kids).

I'd expect that in the next two weeks we'll begin seeing a lot of well to do private schools and conferences make statements about spring sports seasons (or lack thereof). State schools and private schools on the lower end of the financial spectrum will drag their feet as long as possible to ensure beds are filled with student-athletes as they hold out hope for a spring season that is bound to be cancelled.

If you're a NESCAC school, you're not too worried about the impact of a few hundred athletes not coming back to school for a year; but at State School U or Struggling Private College those couple hundred full beds make a big difference between keeping doors open and people employed or going the way of Mt. Ida and so many others.
Dave
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Re: 2021 Cancellations

Post by Dave »

I'm guessing most D3 schools will be cobbling together a schedule based on staying in state, and that conference play won't be happening....just a guess. In CT for example, you have Trinity, Wesleyan, Conn, and CGA all within a stone's throw - I'll be they figure something like that out. Maine has Bates, Bowdoin, Colby, St. Joe's....hope these kids have some sort of season - but I doubt it will be full conference play....
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