W&L 2020

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Nosey Ned
Posts: 459
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:13 am

Re: W&L 2020

Post by Nosey Ned »

I can’t believe that I’m the one that needs to say this but ..... W&L has lost to both York and Denison in each of the last 3 years. Loses to higher ranked teams - better teams. I’m sure a look back on this chat each of the last two years probably would show a string of hand wringing and finger pointing as well. But didn’t the two previous W&L teams still wind up in the NCAA tournament? This year is still in diapers and will be what this version decides to make of it .... on the practice field, in the weight room and on the wall. Let’s see if this bunch shows character and resolve. I hope they do ... I for one now want W&L to run the table!
Dehuntshigwa’es
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Location: Old Dominion

Re: W&L 2020

Post by Dehuntshigwa’es »

Nosey Ned wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:09 pm I can’t believe that I’m the one that needs to say this but ..... W&L has lost to both York and Denison in each of the last 3 years. Loses to higher ranked teams - better teams. I’m sure a look back on this chat each of the last two years probably would show a string of hand wringing and finger pointing as well. But didn’t the two previous W&L teams still wind up in the NCAA tournament? This year is still in diapers and will be what this version decides to make of it .... on the practice field, in the weight room and on the wall. Let’s see if this bunch shows character and resolve. I hope they do ... I for one now want W&L to run the table!
Of course you do,😂😂😂 besting F&M and WAC gives Denison a better OOC win and ranking. W&L was 2 and 4 in one goal games last year ( thus the hand wringing) They have walked a very fine line at times. The issue is that they’ve been pretty good defensively the last few years, this year the D is very much in question... perhaps being so young they may struggle this year to be a top 20 team. Lynchburg looked pretty good against F&M. These OOC games are critical if they have to go the Pool C route. N N your boys looked good today you will dominate your conference this year
Last edited by Dehuntshigwa’es on Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Nosey Ned
Posts: 459
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:13 am

Re: W&L 2020

Post by Nosey Ned »

Dehuntshigwa’es wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:28 pm
Nosey Ned wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:09 pm I can’t believe that I’m the one that needs to say this but ..... W&L has lost to both York and Denison in each of the last 3 years. Loses to higher ranked teams - better teams. I’m sure a look back on this chat each of the last two years probably would show a string of hand wringing and finger pointing as well. But didn’t the two previous W&L teams still wind up in the NCAA tournament? This year is still in diapers and will be what this version decides to make of it .... on the practice field, in the weight room and on the wall. Let’s see if this bunch shows character and resolve. I hope they do ... I for one now want W&L to run the table!
Of course you do, besting F&M and WAC gives Denison a better OOC win and ranking. W&L was 2 and 4 in one goal games last year. They have walked a very fine line at times. The issue is that they’ve been pretty good defensively the last few years, this year the D is very much in question... perhaps being so young they may struggle this year to be a top 20 team. Lynchburg looked pretty good against F&M. These OOC games are critical if they have to go the Pool C route
My point was that there’s a lot of lacrosse left. Yes Lynchburg looked great against F&M ... but they didn’t look so against Salisbury. Is Lynchburg that good or is F&M defense suspect? I don’t think anyone knows for sure yet... and that’s my point. We talking heads think we got it figured but the truth is we are just pushing preconceived notions this early in the year.
ODACLAX
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Re: W&L 2020

Post by ODACLAX »

Dehuntshigwa’es wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:11 pm
publaxguy wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:05 pm D left Lanigan out to dry. They are getting consistently beat to the middle of the field and 2 slides are nowhere to be found. Need to see better communication from the young guys. Might be nice to have an experienced goalie to talk to your young d though??

Too many unforced turnovers on O. Also need to see some leadership step up and command the offense, spacing deteriorates through the possession.
Nice to see the coaches make the correction in the goal.
Dehunt, I agree with what you say most of the time but not on this. The change should have been made and coach should have stuck with it.

First goalie should/could have saved 1 or 2 and gave up a few rebounds on point blank shots that turned into goals because of slow feet D. Second half goalie was not an improvement and continues to show can’t steal a game when they need it. W&L has not had a goalie who can do that since Devine.

Until they find this the best will be a potential ODAC Championship and an early exit in the dance.
ctbagataway
Posts: 397
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:32 pm

Re: W&L 2020

Post by ctbagataway »

Hmm. 6 saves on 14 shots, and no goals from 15+, sure looked like an improvement over 3 saves on 13 shots. But I don't really see this as a goalie issue, it is a defensive issue. Can't give up the inside. But this team is extremely young on the defensive half and they will improve. I thought #33 showed a ton of improvement from the first game. He looked a lot more confident and was able to put pressure on players.
NJlxrdad
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: W&L 2020

Post by NJlxrdad »

Things to improve on:

1. Approach techniques on D
2. Sliding Angles and increased aggressiveness
3. Middie down help
4. Off ball movement
5. Shooting accuracy
6. Faster ball movement

All fixable. Coaches will earn their pay this year. Team should improve every game and hopefully ready for ODAC play
dingdongdman
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:18 am

Re: W&L 2020

Post by dingdongdman »

Agree with all the below, especially approaches on D. Saw too many times the Gennies sliding to where a guy was and not where he was going to be. The d middies really need some work on positioning and jamming, can't get beat over the top and get crossed up and also the d middies need to get a jam to drive the O middies off their line. Also need to improve on finishing, lots of missed opportunities over the last two games.
Dehuntshigwa’es
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Location: Old Dominion

Re: W&L 2020

Post by Dehuntshigwa’es »

I want to say it’s early, that the mistakes will get corrected, that they will improve, that Kriss and Alison will be back , that they will find a player who can play at X, that they will find 1-2 more players on the roster who can play as ssdm’s. I want to say that their 22% shooting after just two games will get better. I want to say that their average of 4 caused turnovers will improve and that the opponents averaged caused TO’s will drop from 12 a game. Maybe the coaches and players can improve upon the last two performances. Certainly rooting for them to do so. What concerns me is the “eye test,” they have some really good players but maybe not enough of them. I thought the first two games would be a reach, not impossible but a reach to win. The next two games will say a lot as to how this season may play out.WAC is next, a program that is struggling. A good CNU team pounded WAC who had 29 TO’s. Hoping for a clean game statistically in all categories for the win
NJlxrdad
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: W&L 2020

Post by NJlxrdad »

I don't disagree there is a lot to improve however keep in mind many playing now have had limited game experience, especially the sophs. The staff tends to favor the upper class and with the loss of some real seasoned seniors last year (especially on D) there is a lot of green on the field. Starting with 2 top 10 teams is also rough, talk about getting thrown into the fire! Oh and on top of it all is a new zone D which if you've never played in a zone scheme can get real confusing real fast...I have faith it gets better
goodshotswillgo
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Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:19 pm

Re: W&L 2020

Post by goodshotswillgo »

A few thoughts on the first two games:
- Is #2 playing a mixture of midfield and attack so he is on the field at all times? Completely agree with this approach as he is a playmaker to the definition, but he's missed in the middle of the field. He's played a decent amount of dmid and jumpstarted goals from that end, but doesn't seem like we can burn him at that end this year.
- Same train of thought, excited for our playmakers to show up in the middle of the field (despite the last two games). Faceoff unit has always been good for ~1-2 goals a game. Really looking forward to guys stepping up in that phase which hopefully takes some pressure off the 6v6 to produce.
- History shows that messing with goalies rarely pans out. Why now and why so early? Does it have to do with the week of practice between games? You would think McCabe/Koch ramped up competition in practice during that week. On the other hand, consistency plays a role in any level of communication.

100% belief in this senior class to turn this season around and never a better opportunity for a confidence boost against WAC. Whether they're down or not, its a big game jump start the season.
ctbagataway
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:32 pm

Re: W&L 2020

Post by ctbagataway »

Moving #2 to A on occasion looked more to me like a way to bring #31 out of the box, where he frequently drew a shortie. Seemed fairly effective.
Geo&Rob
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:05 pm

Re: W&L 2020

Post by Geo&Rob »

The way I see it there is one way to win the game, score more goals than your opponent. Many here seem to think that the defense is the main cause of the losses so far and I disagree. The offense has been anemic at best. No goals in the 4th against York and outscored by the Big Red in the 4th as well.
These score lines surely cannot be solely blamed on then defense. When the offense goes down and takes ill-timed shots or misses a sitter on the crease, other keepers are able to easily push transition leading to goals on the other end.
The loss of # 21 who used to take on a team’s best pole and draw double teams is undoubtedly a massive one and they are struggling a bit with that departure, but a couple players have maintained and stepped up. I hope to see more from them in upcoming games.
However, if the plan is to advance beyond the 2nd round and play on Memorial Day then the 2nd and 3rd lines need to be close to if not as good as the 1st line. This can only be achieved with game time to build their confidence.
This is College lacrosse where many teams boast 60-man rosters. Other teams deploy a plethora of talented midfield lines against the Generals, and it has certainly provided an advantage for them. This is not high school where you can win with 2-3 dominant players anymore.
In a sport with unlimited changes, it seems like more players would be involved in the games. With what we know in exercise physiology it is hard to believe and accept that a player that has played all 60 minutes of a 60 minute contest is better able to perform than one who has only played 5. To claim otherwise is simply wrong. I understand not everyone can or should play the same amount, but unlike others in here, I think it makes no sense to play one person, regardless of talent, the entire game -  especially if they are playing in a midfield role. Even Michael Jordan and Lebron James have to come off the court at some point.
Finally If we think that upperclassmen are automatically better than new members of the team just by virtue of time on campus ..... well what more needs to be said about that. Just plain wrong!
Yes the defense has not been at its best but they are young. lighten up on the ssdm as well as this is the only place I’ve heard them specifically being blamed for a loss especially with the limited action they get. I hope the current group on defense continues to get time on the field so they can gain the experience and confidence needed to be elite at the end of the year and in the future.
NJlxrdad
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Re: W&L 2020

Post by NJlxrdad »

Like I said the team is young and inexperienced and will improve. McCabe is loyal to his upperclassmen for sure giving them the opportunity to win first. I don’t believe anyone unit or player is to blame. Right now they just look a step slow as they try to think through what they should be doing on the field. Thinking slows players down.

What is Allison’s status? Someone here mentioned he’s coming back soon. Also thought Mullholland looked like he’s getting back to form. A win against WAC will go along way toward building confidence. This year especially it would have been nice to maybe not start with consecutive top ten teams.
palaxoff
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:01 pm

Re: W&L 2020

Post by palaxoff »

I'm just a casual follower, friends son is on the team:
his is College lacrosse where many teams boast 60-man rosters. Other teams deploy a plethora of talented midfield lines against the Generals, and it has certainly provided an advantage for them. This is not high school where you can win with 2-3 dominant players anymore.
In a sport with unlimited changes, it seems like more players would be involved in the games. With what we know in exercise physiology it is hard to believe and accept that a player that has played all 60 minutes of a 60 minute contest is better able to perform than one who has only played
Geo&Bob:

The reality of college lacrosse paying time is most teams only run 20-23 players of which some see very limited action a game, (Starting 10, 2nd mid line, 2 lsm, 2 ssmd 1-2 poles 1-2 fogos and 1-2 extra man.)
Geo&Rob
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:05 pm

Re: W&L 2020

Post by Geo&Rob »

Palaxoff,
Understand, I’m casual viewer of the game and claim no grand status or knowledge base. I’m not at practice to see the performances of the players so trust the coaches to make the best decisions.
Not my intent to challenge their choice, if that was the case this would not be the appropriate place to do it.
The reality however is posters here do make suggestion as to why the team performed the way it did and calling for players that have not featured so far and for other to feature more. Seems like the general consensus was the defense was solely at fault.
The 2 games so far were always going to be tough even with # 21. I trust the team will rebound this weekend and all will be good in Lex Vegas again.
Give the team a chance and yes Load management is a thing.
dingdongdman
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:18 am

Re: W&L 2020

Post by dingdongdman »

The defense was not at all completely to blame, the offense seems to have their own issues. Putting up 9 goals and 11 goals just does not cut it anymore. In order to win with how fast paced the game is, now you need 13/14+ goals. In my opinion the departure of Corrigan is the greatest factor so far on offense. His insight and knowledge seemed invaluable to the offense and without him they do not seem to be drawing up the right plays for the current offense. I believe some players need to be rearranged position wise in order to find the best formula for scoring and some new plays need to be drawn up that highlight their individual play making abilities. Luckily, we have these games to figure it out before ODACs but these games are also the most important when it comes to season wide confidence and also Pool C and tournament placement. I imagine the Gennies will rebound with a big win against WAC given their own significant losses and hope that they run the rest of season. The Generals have been here before at 0-2 and have had some remarkable seasons with a similar start.
palaxoff
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:01 pm

Re: W&L 2020

Post by palaxoff »

Geo& Bob,

Coach McCabe is a well regarded coach, I'd trust in his judgement.

The one thing I have learned on this website there are usually 2 types of posters. Those with a genuine interest in the team and those with agendas.
Dehuntshigwa’es
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Location: Old Dominion

Re: W&L 2020

Post by Dehuntshigwa’es »

NJlxrdad wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:35 pm I don't disagree there is a lot to improve however keep in mind many playing now have had limited game experience, especially the sophs. The staff tends to favor the upper class and with the loss of some real seasoned seniors last year (especially on D) there is a lot of green on the field. Starting with 2 top 10 teams is also rough, talk about getting thrown into the fire! Oh and on top of it all is a new zone D which if you've never played in a zone scheme can get real confusing real fast...I have faith it gets better

If you are going zone as a base defense call up Coach Raba and get some Wesleyan tape. Best zone play in D3. I don’t see W&L committed to the zone but more of a change up. That’s perhaps even harder to adjust to as a player you do t log enough hours in it. You can be ok at it but very tough to being great at zone play unless you have had a LOT of time to get the nuances of it. Nice to have available as a change up to confuse or take some momentum away from the O
NJlxrdad
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: W&L 2020

Post by NJlxrdad »

My impression is the zone was meant to be more than just a change up. I agree you have to commit to a zone and that was my point. Let’s see how tomorrow goes
Dehuntshigwa’es
Posts: 1035
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Location: Old Dominion

Re: W&L 2020

Post by Dehuntshigwa’es »

Nice game from start to finish albeit a very weak WAC. 21 has some game to him looks confident out there. Not much time but 40 looked solid as well. Let’s see if they can play like this against F&M
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