Patriot League 2020

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laxpere
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by laxpere »

Moving part of this post from the Johns Hopkins forum.
GSP wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:04 pm There are 8 At-Large spots in the Tourney. With the seasons that Yale, Princeton, Penn, and Cornell are having (all 4 in top 10), it is VERY likely they get 3 of the At-Large births. The ACC sitting at a combined 19 and 4 record ( with all 4 in the top 10 and Duke, notorious for late season charges at #14) will probably get 5, but almost certainly will get 4 At-Large bids. Army and Loyola are likely which is 1 more At-Large. The loser of Penn St and UMD will almost certainly get in. That's either 9 or 10 squads dividing up 8 slots.
At Large candidates:
3 Ivy League - Cornell/Penn/Princeton/Yale
3 ACC - Syracuse/UNC/Notre Dame/UVA/Duke
2 BG1 - Penn State/Maryland/OSU
2 Big East - Georgetown/Villanova/DU
1 PL - Army/Loyola

I count more like 11 teams contending for 8 slots. It is early but it looks like a dog fight.
Assuming that there aren't any big surprises in the league championship games, the bubble teams look like fifth in the ACC, fourth in the Ivy League, third in the BG1, and second in almost all of the other leagues. I think that it will be difficult for second place in the other leagues to earn an at-large bid. I think that the Loyola-Duke, Loyola-Georgetown and Army-Notre Dame games will have determine whether PL could earn an at-large bid. 3-0 might be enough for an extra bid, but anything less makes it unlikely.
Any wild cards out there?
“The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall.” Vince Lombardi
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are...." John Wooden
kramerica.inc
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by kramerica.inc »

I think the Big 10 is a 2 bid conference at this point and the BE and PL will split 3 at larges.
laxpere
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by laxpere »

kramerica.inc wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:59 pm I think the Big 10 is a 2 bid conference at this point and the BE and PL will split 3 at larges.
To clarify, there are nine AQs but the lowest two ranked play in so there are eight at larges available, How do you split up the remaining four at larges in your scenario that the the Big 10 has one and the BE and PL split three? ACC two and Ivy two?
“The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall.” Vince Lombardi
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are...." John Wooden
TheBigIguana
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by TheBigIguana »

kramerica.inc wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:59 pm I think the Big 10 is a 2 bid conference at this point and the BE and PL will split 3 at larges.
We will know more after Saturday but right now I'd expect the ACC to take 4/5 and the Ivys to get 2/3 with Maryland/Penn State being the other team.

It looks to me like the PL teams that are good enough to be in the at large conversation are Bucknell, Army, Lehigh and Loyola. The Marist loss really hurts Army and they probably have to beat Notre Dame and have a 7-1 conference record to be there at the end. Bucknell has such a weak nonconference that it is virtually impossible. Loyola will need Rutgers, Towson and Hopkins to all improve plus a win over Duke/Georgetown and a very strong conference record. Lehigh probably needs to beat Penn State.

The quick summary is four teams have the quality of team to be there but based on the criteria a lot has to go right for the PL to actually be 2 bid.
kramerica.inc
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by kramerica.inc »

McNulty named PL defensive player of the week:

https://twitter.com/loyolamlax/status/1 ... 08193?s=21
laxxygilmore
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by laxxygilmore »

Very disappointing news...effective as of Monday, March 16...
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... d-19/56152

Patriot League the Latest to Cancel Spring Athletics in Wake of COVID-19
Thursday March 12th, 2020 10:00am

The Patriot League is the latest conference to cancel its spring sports in the wake of COVID-19 efforts.

The league presidents met Wednesday and made the decision, a shift from earlier announcements that play would continue with social-distancing measures. The Patriot League joins the Ivy League in DI, plus several other schools who have announced postponements and limits that will surely put a cloud over the 2020 lacrosse season — or put pressure on more to follow suit.

The league was expected to allow games for the upcoming weekend, with cancellations starting Monday. That decision is up to the individual schools.

With the Patriot League's announcement, two of the more successful conferences in men's and women's DI are done for the year. Three teams from the Patriot League are ranked in the Maverik Men's DI Media Poll, which means seven of the nation's Top 20 teams are currently shut down. In women's, Patriot League member Loyola is ranked No. 3 in the country, with Navy and Army receiving votes.

With the DIII's NESCAC shut down, several national championship contenders are not playing.

The official announcement:

CENTER VALLEY, Pa. – Recognizing that the health and safety of our students and broader communities is our priority, and based on the ongoing spread of COVID 19 (2019 novel Coronavirus), the Patriot League Council of Presidents has made the difficult and challenging decision to cancel all spring athletics practices and competitions through the remainder of the academic year.

The majority of Patriot League institutions have announced a temporary or semester-long transition to remote learning. While we recognize the deep disappointment that will be felt by our student-athletes, coaches, and communities, a continuation of spring seasons is untenable.

The decision will be effective Monday, March 16.

Individual institutions will decide the championship participation status of winter teams and student-athletes who have qualified.
kramerica.inc
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Re: Patriot League 202o

Post by kramerica.inc »

kramerica.inc wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:52 pm It’s easy to dismiss the hounds if you hear the numbers and say “Spencer is gone.”

But when you look at the roster, it still has plenty of key/core contributors returning.

The best news for the Loyola team/offense following the loss of Spencer is the return of MVA.

Goal- tough to follow Stover. But some promising early reviews of Shaffer. Jury is out. But no reason for pessimism. Whoever gets the nod just needs to play ok ball and should be successful with the Solid defense in front of them.

As alluded to- Close Defense is mostly intact. Should improve over last year.

LSM unit is intact, VERY deep and should improve over last year.

F/O- Savio returns. But now has 2 VERY good freshmen behind him for depth. That unit should improve over last year.

Midfield. Huge question mark. This unit is young. But there is a LOT of talent. Interested to see how they gel and who steps up. There are a few kids I’m excited to see play more prominent roles now that the logjam on the depth chart has graduated. Lots of role players the past couple years who get a chance now. I’m very curious about this, but optimistic given the names patiently waiting and working.

IMO Attack should be just fine with Lindley, Olmstead and Joey Kamish. That gives you a very good scorer/finisher and 2 good qb/carriers. Could see Pridemore contribute there.

The hounds will look different next year, but that doesn’t mean there will be a huge drop off. Dismiss the hounds at your own peril.
So, how far off was I from my Jan 9 expectations?
NovaHound
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by NovaHound »

kramerica.inc wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:25 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:52 pm It’s easy to dismiss the hounds if you hear the numbers and say “Spencer is gone.”

But when you look at the roster, it still has plenty of key/core contributors returning.

The best news for the Loyola team/offense following the loss of Spencer is the return of MVA.

Goal- tough to follow Stover. But some promising early reviews of Shaffer. Jury is out. But no reason for pessimism. Whoever gets the nod just needs to play ok ball and should be successful with the Solid defense in front of them.

As alluded to- Close Defense is mostly intact. Should improve over last year.

LSM unit is intact, VERY deep and should improve over last year.

F/O- Savio returns. But now has 2 VERY good freshmen behind him for depth. That unit should improve over last year.

Midfield. Huge question mark. This unit is young. But there is a LOT of talent. Interested to see how they gel and who steps up. There are a few kids I’m excited to see play more prominent roles now that the logjam on the depth chart has graduated. Lots of role players the past couple years who get a chance now. I’m very curious about this, but optimistic given the names patiently waiting and working.

IMO Attack should be just fine with Lindley, Olmstead and Joey Kamish. That gives you a very good scorer/finisher and 2 good qb/carriers. Could see Pridemore contribute there.

The hounds will look different next year, but that doesn’t mean there will be a huge drop off. Dismiss the hounds at your own peril.
So, how far off was I from my Jan 9 expectations?
Looks like you weren't far off at all. You called it right at Attack. Defense was doing well. Midfield still had some question marks but Swindell and Poitras were playing well and getting better. Shaffer performed admirably. Savio, with McNulty's support, anchored a pretty good face off unit.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by Farfromgeneva »

I thought Seay would do better. Lots of guys move from lower mid level programs up and excel, Hop won a title bc of a kid they took in from Fairfield back in the day, there was one who went from Bellarmine to OSU and did just fine. Plenty of examples, but apparently not everyone.
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That ain't even the half what they might do
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houndace1
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by houndace1 »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:53 pm I thought Seay would do better. Lots of guys move from lower mid level programs up and excel, Hop won a title bc of a kid they took in from Fairfield back in the day, there was one who went from Bellarmine to OSU and did just fine. Plenty of examples, but apparently not everyone.
Keep in mind, the kid got very limited runs as a member of their 3rd midfield line and many teams only played about 6-7 games.

He also had to learn a new offensive system. I'd give it another year to see if he can really contribute. Regardless of the league, you don't score 30 goals if you're a so-so player
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Farfromgeneva
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Agreed, just feel like there was some dismissiveness on the Loyola board about his ability to contribute on "loyolas level" of competition from a few folks so I was interested to see what he'd do. I think it sucks when a kid tries to "move up" in level so to speak and then gets buried on a bench. Maybe a title soothes that, but that's rolling the dice, especially knowing this was something of a reloading/rebuilding year for Loyola.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
kramerica.inc
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by kramerica.inc »

That reminds me- Loyola had a decent kid from little D2 Gannon transfer to and transition to D1 pretty well...

https://www.nll.com/news/where-are-they ... vin-prout/
Laxrules10
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by Laxrules10 »

Does anyone know if Patriot League presidents are scheduled to vote like the Ivy presidents did today on 5th year/grad player eligiblity?
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youthathletics
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by youthathletics »

Doesn’t matter for 2 of the 9 lax programs.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
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kramerica.inc
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by kramerica.inc »

youthathletics wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:59 pm Doesn’t matter for 2 of the 9 lax programs.
It does not. PL has lots of differences in teams. That’s what makes it so interesting and fun to watch IMO.

Those same 2 lax programs will be, as always, “business as usual.” They have their own prep schools and can offer 42+ “full-rides“ too. But they require MUCH more of a commitment from their kids..and there’s that small caveat of service...

;) :D

So it will be interesting to see how all the PL schools navigate/handle this.
Henpecked
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by Henpecked »

kramerica.inc wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:50 am
youthathletics wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:59 pm Doesn’t matter for 2 of the 9 lax programs.
It does not. PL has lots of differences in teams. That’s what makes it so interesting and fun to watch IMO.

Those same 2 lax programs will be, as always, “business as usual.” They have their own prep schools and can offer 42+ “full-rides“ too. But they require MUCH more of a commitment from their kids..and there’s that small caveat of service...

;) :D

So it will be interesting to see how all the PL schools navigate/handle this.
Saying Navy has 42+ players on its squad is an understatement. When they rolled into Newark for a scrimmage with UD this spring, I thought they brought three teams. They have 65 guys on their roster! :o
Laxrules10
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by Laxrules10 »

in addition to the service academies, most of the other schools don't have grad schools. Looks like only BU, Lehigh and Loyola have sizable grad schools?
kramerica.inc
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by kramerica.inc »

Those 3 schools do have grad schools. But athletically, I'd imagine all the schools play by the same PL grad student/transfer rules.
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youthathletics
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by youthathletics »

Henpecked wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:24 am
kramerica.inc wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:50 am
youthathletics wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:59 pm Doesn’t matter for 2 of the 9 lax programs.
It does not. PL has lots of differences in teams. That’s what makes it so interesting and fun to watch IMO.

Those same 2 lax programs will be, as always, “business as usual.” They have their own prep schools and can offer 42+ “full-rides“ too. But they require MUCH more of a commitment from their kids..and there’s that small caveat of service...

;) :D

So it will be interesting to see how all the PL schools navigate/handle this.
Saying Navy has 42+ players on its squad is an understatement. When they rolled into Newark for a scrimmage with UD this spring, I thought they brought three teams. They have 65 guys on their roster! :o
Not uncommon at SA's, although 65 may be a bit extreme. A couple years before last, Navy had a bunch of players leave NAPS and de-commit prior to walking on the yard. You may recall (Fairman, Shockey, K Smith, Buller, just name a handful). The sports attrition rate is also higher at SA's once they engage in the academic rigors. Your course curriculum can only be shuffled around so much before you soon realize you can not navigate away from working hard in the books.

Navy's Club Team is also tops in the NCLL, so that is also a place to scratch the lacrosse itch where they occasionally lose players, but still want the SA life.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
Laxxal22
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Re: Patriot League 2020

Post by Laxxal22 »

kramerica.inc wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:17 pm Those 3 schools do have grad schools. But athletically, I'd imagine all the schools play by the same PL grad student/transfer rules.
Took a quick look at the PL operational bylaws and saw this, "Normal Academic Progress [Editorial revision, May 2007]. All students participating in intercollegiate athletics must be enrolled full-time and must be making normal academic progress in an academic program leading to a first baccalaureate degree." Not a lawyer, but that reads like "no grad students" to me.
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