Yale 2020

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Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

thetruth wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:30 am
OCanada wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:57 am Yale is not the only school to have placed on emphasis on sports. Penn and Princeton come to mind.
Over the past 5 years, Princeton has more team Ivy titles than anyone and only Harvard is close. Both of those schools have done that without utilizing athletic transfers and have had as much if not more success on the women’s side as they have had on the men’s side. As it relates to men’s team titles over that period Yale is near the top while their women’s teams have not had nearly the same success. Yale has won 6 team collegiate national championships in the past 6 years, by far the most in the Ivies. All of them have been men’s teams. Columbia and Princeton are the only other Ivies that have won team collegiate titles in that period, Columbia in fencing twice which is coed and Princeton in women’s field hockey. Other than fencing in the mid-80s, Yale has never won a national collegiate championship in women’s team sports in their 318 year history. As you can tell I have daughters...
Wasn’t the women’s soccer coach on the take? I wondered why a coach would sacrifice his team success....maybe the environment made the ground fertile. It’s working for Yale.
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thetruth
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by thetruth »

TLD, you are correct. Women’s soccer coach who had been at Yale for over 25 years had been taking bribes to admit phony recruits. Who knows how long it was going on.
OCanada
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by OCanada »

Time frame is every thing. It’s not a new development ti find a way to boost the various programs regardless but I take your point. For the record my daughter played on Yale’s last women’s tournament team. She was smallish but fearless. The Yale women got fed up with the status of program after Mandy left.

Cornell in its hey day had a feeder in Farmingdale CC.
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Mid-Lax
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by Mid-Lax »

A couple of items:

1) TD is the only modern era transfer into Yale Men's Lacrosse that I am aware of. If Chris Gray decided on Yale and his grades are good and Boston U being a very good academic institution, I am sure the team would welcome him with open arms. I wonder if he has spoken to Coach Shay and has visited the campus (those have a significant effect on the decision, like TD indicated). For 2020, that would create a pretty outstanding attack unit, perhaps even creating a mid-fill-in rotation opportunity.

2) From the articles, it seems like Coach Baxter is heading to Fairfield, but, I am still holding out hope that he stays and that the Yale Lacrosse program (not necessarily the University) can keep him. Normally, I root for the Shay coaching tree to grow, but, I know how much the players love Coach Baxter. It would be disappointing loss , but, of course, we all would be happy for Coach Baxter and the ramped up games vs Fairfield.
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Sting The Corner
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by Sting The Corner »

I always root for Yale, aside from the Saturdays when they face Brown. Really respect what Shay has done and how he has built the program. But purely from the perspective of a lacrosse fan, it’ll be a lot harder root for the Bulldogs if Gray transfers in. Love seeing a program grow into a power. Accepting two of the biggest transfers of the decade in back-to-back years seems incongruous with Shay’s Bulldogs of the past 10 years.
FannOLax
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by FannOLax »

That "Gray to Yale" report looked very, um, thin... Duke, Hop, UVa and UNC looking more credible for Gray. Then again, we'll only know when we know.
Meanwhile, Burkinshaw to Penn has been confirmed, and is certainly a big deal.
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Mid-Lax
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by Mid-Lax »

I guess Yale getting a second transfer would mean some would not root for Yale. Some years I saw Cornell picking up transfers. If you look out of the Ivies, Syracuse, and many others accept many transfers. If a player is not poached, then there shouldn't be an issue as long as the player qualifies academically (at Yale). Anyway, some have added that Yale is not a likely Gray's destination.
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thetruth
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by thetruth »

Mid-Lax wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:50 pm If a player is not poached, then there shouldn't be an issue as long as the player qualifies academically (at Yale).
I assume by “qualifies academically” you mean if Andy Shay wants you badly enough. His influence with admissions grows by the day. It’s not like they’re playing in 2 NCAA finals with a team of valedictorians.
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Mid-Lax
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by Mid-Lax »

thetruth, you have no idea about what you are commenting on, on all counts. Next time do your research and be respectful about what Coach Shay has built and the exceptional character of through-and-through student athletes.
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thetruth
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by thetruth »

Mid-lax, where did I even comment on anyone’s character? I have a ton of respect for any D1 student athlete given the time, dedication and commitment required in and out of the classroom simply to graduate. And of course I’m respectful of what Shay has built and have said it before. He’s building a winning lacrosse team not a debate team. He has great lacrosse players and worked exceptionally well with admissions to accomplish that goal. He’s a great coach and a top notch recruiter who’s ability to navigate through the Yale administration and galvanize his donor base is unparalleled in the Ivy League. He has been able to do things on a recruiting basis and with transfers that no other men’s lacrosse coach in Yale’s history has accomplished. It’s proven good for the school and the team, but most importantly good for student athletes who were given that opportunity.
Peter Brown
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by Peter Brown »

Mid-Lax wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:50 pm I guess Yale getting a second transfer would mean some would not root for Yale. Some years I saw Cornell picking up transfers. If you look out of the Ivies, Syracuse, and many others accept many transfers. If a player is not poached, then there shouldn't be an issue as long as the player qualifies academically (at Yale). Anyway, some have added that Yale is not a likely Gray's destination.

I don't think the issue of potentially cheering against Yale because they accepted a few transfers is simply about accepting transfers but rather (assuming they got Gray, no sure thing obviously) more analogous to when the Yankees got (what seemed like) every all-star assembling their teams in the 90's/90's...Ierlan and Gray would be a masterstroke of premier, elite talent. Most colleges of course get transfers every year, but this hypothetical Ierlan/Gray transfer two-fer would be a few grades above what other colleges get from their transfers. Getting Ierlan/Gray would also make you have a bullseye on your back from every other team, as they gear up to defeat Goliath.

And of course, us fans would treat Yale just like we treated the Yankees. :lol:
InDeoSperamus
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by InDeoSperamus »

Since I'm a complete Brown homer and this forum has evolved into a debate on academics, I'd like to note that the New England Intercollegiate Lacrosse Association has named 26 players to their Division 1 All-Academic Team. Brown, Dartmouth, Harvard and Yale are all members of NEILA. Despite losing to the Elis on the field this year, it appears the Bears are winning big in the classroom by placing 7 on the NEILA All-Academic Team, more than any other school. In order to be named to this team, the student-athlete must be a senior who received at least all-league consideration and had a cumulative GPA of at least 3.0. Harvard placed 1 on the team while it does not appear that either Dartmouth or Yale placed any, but in fairness to Dartmouth they probably didn't have any seniors who were considered for All-Ivy. While Brown has not matched Yale's success on the field over the past couple years, you have to respect the culture Daly is building and his emphasis on graduating successful students. As is said often, its about the next 40 years not the next 4 years.
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by Peter Brown »

InDeoSperamus wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:25 am Since I'm a complete Brown homer and this forum has evolved into a debate on academics, I'd like to note that the New England Intercollegiate Lacrosse Association has named 26 players to their Division 1 All-Academic Team. Brown, Dartmouth, Harvard and Yale are all members of NEILA. Despite losing to the Elis on the field this year, it appears the Bears are winning big in the classroom by placing 7 on the NEILA All-Academic Team, more than any other school. In order to be named to this team, the student-athlete must be a senior who received at least all-league consideration and had a cumulative GPA of at least 3.0. Harvard placed 1 on the team while it does not appear that either Dartmouth or Yale placed any, but in fairness to Dartmouth they probably didn't have any seniors who were considered for All-Ivy. While Brown has not matched Yale's success on the field over the past couple years, you have to respect the culture Daly is building and his emphasis on graduating successful students. As is said often, its about the next 40 years not the next 4 years.

I say this as a graduate of a less-august institution of higher learning than an Ivy, but I thought Brown didn't issue 'grades'? Or at least, they will not issue D;'s and F's, no matter how poorly one performs. Is that so?
OCanada
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by OCanada »

Historically I think only JHU pulled off a bigger transfer duo and they did it in the same year I think. Bob DeSimone and Brendan Schneck from Navy
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

InDeoSperamus wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:25 am Since I'm a complete Brown homer and this forum has evolved into a debate on academics, I'd like to note that the New England Intercollegiate Lacrosse Association has named 26 players to their Division 1 All-Academic Team. Brown, Dartmouth, Harvard and Yale are all members of NEILA. Despite losing to the Elis on the field this year, it appears the Bears are winning big in the classroom by placing 7 on the NEILA All-Academic Team, more than any other school. In order to be named to this team, the student-athlete must be a senior who received at least all-league consideration and had a cumulative GPA of at least 3.0. Harvard placed 1 on the team while it does not appear that either Dartmouth or Yale placed any, but in fairness to Dartmouth they probably didn't have any seniors who were considered for All-Ivy. While Brown has not matched Yale's success on the field over the past couple years, you have to respect the culture Daly is building and his emphasis on graduating successful students. As is said often, its about the next 40 years not the next 4 years.
Re Dartmouth, yup, our sole senior (of 6) who would have been in contention (CLASS nominee and captain, prior All-Ivy) was injured the whole season. All starters were underclassmen.

I would comment, however, that the current Dartmouth team achieved its highest GPA in Dartmouth lax history. On the other hand, we obviously only had a handful of players, team-wide, who would've been even considered for All-Ivy recognition. (I do think it was ridiculous that our goalie wasn't honored). Not that we didn't have some good players, but gotta win games. And going 33% at X, 22% in conference, not going to win many games. FOGO injured. But lots of strong student-athletes. But no senior starters.

Congrats to Brown for having so many such seniors make that mark.

I think your point, though, is that despite having lots of excellent athletes, and lots of league honors, it's surprising that there weren't any All-Academic awards for the Yale team.
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by FannOLax »

Peter Brown wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:08 am
I don't think the issue of potentially cheering against Yale because they accepted a few transfers is simply about accepting transfers but rather (assuming they got Gray, no sure thing obviously) more analogous to when the Yankees got (what seemed like) every all-star assembling their teams in the 90's/90's...Ierlan and Gray would be a masterstroke of premier, elite talent. Most colleges of course get transfers every year, but this hypothetical Ierlan/Gray transfer two-fer would be a few grades above what other colleges get from their transfers. Getting Ierlan/Gray would also make you have a bullseye on your back from every other team, as they gear up to defeat Goliath.

And of course, us fans would treat Yale just like we treated the Yankees. :lol:
Interesting analogy to the Yankees; and I can appreciate what you're saying. When Yale won the National Championship in 2018, it was as an outsider crashing the party; but in 2019 things felt different, and not just because of TD's transfer. Admission to fall ball was free of charge in 2017/18, but a year later they charged $5. Yes, the new turf on the field for 2018/19 was overdue and is nice, but did they really need two new scoreboards, one with video capabilities? As for academics, Ben Reeves was an academic superstar, and if I recall correctly Ty Warner also did quite well in the classroom; of course they were both class of 2018. All in all, while the 2019 team was still terrific to watch, unlike 2018 it did feel a bit like being at a Yankees spectacle.
seriously?
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by seriously? »

Yale had three highly successful students. Magna, cum laude and with Distinction all of which are considerably higher than a 3.0. Never saw a lot of playing time. Can't do much to control that. And considering that more than a few of them are heading to finance, there are GPA requirements on the part of the firms that usually exceed a 3.2. Who dropped the ball?
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Mid-Lax
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by Mid-Lax »

Sorry, had to work today (like every Monday) :?

Okay, I accept your follow-up post as being on point. But, your prior curt post was just not factual:

"I assume by “qualifies academically” you mean if Andy Shay wants you badly enough. His influence with admissions grows by the day." - you just about indicate that Shay can get any player he wants into Yale Lacrosse. To date, I only know of one: TD. If he were to get a second, it would be 'two'. Some D1 schools get get 3-4 per season. After 10 years or so, having worked with now two ADs and two university presidents, having learned the admission process and who will and won't qualify, he likely only gets a pass for not wasting the admission staff's process. "His influence with admissions grows by the day" makes it sound like he decides fully or in majority as to who gets in. "Brick by brick" the athlete-lax players have improved athletically because he and the players have earned it.

"It’s not like they’re playing in 2 NCAA finals with a team of valedictorians." - technically correct, however, I guarantee that almost every player was a top 10% student at their high or prep school (about a 50/50 ratio but, tilts toward publics) and most continue excel at Yale, where no breaks are given to athletes (who are representing the university). These players go on to become researchers, doctors, lawyers, enroll in the military as officers, go to Wall Street, coach lacrosse, found their own businesses. So, Shay is playing a team of high over-achievers as students and athletes. To say otherwise, is disrespectful and implies shortcuts that don't exist.

Nothing in this program is entitled, or given, but, it is always earned.
Last edited by Mid-Lax on Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Mid-Lax
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by Mid-Lax »

Peter Brown, your point of view I accept. I always cheer for the underdog unless it is my team that is favored. By the way, how many National Championships has Virginia Lacrosse won?
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Mid-Lax
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Re: Yale 2020

Post by Mid-Lax »

FannOLax, those three and others I know performed very well. Some of those guys are just embarking on their graduate careers. I am also aware of achievements 3-5 years after they graduate. I think there was also another 2019 player who majored in Molecular, Cellular, Developmental Biology. LOL, I hardly know what it is.

By the way, yes, well-earned congratulations to the seven Brown student-athletes.
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