Ivy League

D1 Mens Lacrosse
faircornell
Posts: 1633
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by faircornell »

This may be apostasy from an Ivy standpoint, but if you look at the Top Twenty in the coaches' poll, there are a lot of schools who allow grad students to play, have good accelerated MBA or Masters in Finance programs that offer aid. If I put the students first, I'd say, why not go to Duke, UVA, ND, UNC, etc, and get an important long term career qualification for free? Frankly, I don't see the Ivies changing policy, and (absent extensive financial backing) the idea of gaming the system by withdrawing doesn't make sense for many.
RedIvy
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:17 pm

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by RedIvy »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:18 pm
RedIvy wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:07 pm Also fifth year would make it more evenly accessible if it’s tuition free.
I just don't see graduate students being allowed to participate. As for tuition, however aid is normally handled should be the standard.
In UR example they are not graduate students they are fifth year undergrads. This is not “normal” so need to think outside the box.

In your solution not everyone can afford it, schools have different policies in same league and there is no academic benefit to the student athlete with little time for players to consider alternatives. While I realize it’s different, these times call for different solutions. I would expect the idea to be picked apart due potential violations of other existing policies or for some unanticipated consequence I’m missing but not because it’s not already on the books.... the solution could be applied beyond sports as well to consider all students who may have missed out on a unique opportunity.
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 32144
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

RedIvy wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:40 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:18 pm
RedIvy wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:07 pm Also fifth year would make it more evenly accessible if it’s tuition free.
I just don't see graduate students being allowed to participate. As for tuition, however aid is normally handled should be the standard.
In UR example they are not graduate students they are fifth year undergrads. This is not “normal” so need to think outside the box.

In your solution not everyone can afford it, schools have different policies in same league and there is no academic benefit to the student athlete with little time for players to consider alternatives. While I realize it’s different, these times call for different solutions. I would expect the idea to be picked apart due potential violations of other existing policies or for some unanticipated consequence I’m missing but not because it’s not already on the books.... the solution could be applied beyond sports as well to consider all students who may have missed out on a unique opportunity.
The withdrawal rule is already in place. It applies to all students. Not just athletes. It would really on be practical for this year’s seniors. I don’t see any underclassmen withdrawing now to save a year. Grad school seems like a better long term option. Each school already has their own policy. I would not over complicate it.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
User avatar
youthathletics
Posts: 14447
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by youthathletics »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:20 am
RedIvy wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:40 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:18 pm
RedIvy wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:07 pm Also fifth year would make it more evenly accessible if it’s tuition free.
I just don't see graduate students being allowed to participate. As for tuition, however aid is normally handled should be the standard.
In UR example they are not graduate students they are fifth year undergrads. This is not “normal” so need to think outside the box.

In your solution not everyone can afford it, schools have different policies in same league and there is no academic benefit to the student athlete with little time for players to consider alternatives. While I realize it’s different, these times call for different solutions. I would expect the idea to be picked apart due potential violations of other existing policies or for some unanticipated consequence I’m missing but not because it’s not already on the books.... the solution could be applied beyond sports as well to consider all students who may have missed out on a unique opportunity.
The withdrawal rule is already in place. It applies to all students. Not just athletes. It would really on be practical for this year’s seniors. I don’t see any underclassmen withdrawing now to save a year. Grad school seems like a better long term option. Each school already has their own policy. I would not over complicate it.
That part in red gets interesting? What would stop all the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year players to also do the same thing as Sowers has chosen to do?
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 32144
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:31 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:20 am
RedIvy wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:40 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:18 pm
RedIvy wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:07 pm Also fifth year would make it more evenly accessible if it’s tuition free.
I just don't see graduate students being allowed to participate. As for tuition, however aid is normally handled should be the standard.
In UR example they are not graduate students they are fifth year undergrads. This is not “normal” so need to think outside the box.

In your solution not everyone can afford it, schools have different policies in same league and there is no academic benefit to the student athlete with little time for players to consider alternatives. While I realize it’s different, these times call for different solutions. I would expect the idea to be picked apart due potential violations of other existing policies or for some unanticipated consequence I’m missing but not because it’s not already on the books.... the solution could be applied beyond sports as well to consider all students who may have missed out on a unique opportunity.
The withdrawal rule is already in place. It applies to all students. Not just athletes. It would really on be practical for this year’s seniors. I don’t see any underclassmen withdrawing now to save a year. Grad school seems like a better long term option. Each school already has their own policy. I would not over complicate it.
That part in red gets interesting? What would stop all the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year players to also do the same thing as Sowers has chosen to do?
There is nothing to stop them. I just don’t see freshmen and sophomores withdrawing now to save a year. Better option would be to keep your grad school option open. The senior class is in an odd spot. The quality of the spring academic experience has been diminished along with all the activity that leads up to graduation. Missing that is more of an issue than missing lacrosse games, in my opinion.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
stupefied
Posts: 1018
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:23 am

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by stupefied »

Can someone answer this question.

If an IVY kid graduates and moves on to another college to play the added eligible year, can he be given scholarship monies out of the original 12.6

Bit confused whether a transfer can revive monies in any shape or form but have to assume that NCAA cant restrict financial aid if needed

Looking for clarification
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 32144
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

stupefied wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:56 am Can someone answer this question.

If an IVY kid graduates and moves on to another college to play the added eligible year, can he be given scholarship monies out of the original 12.6

Bit confused whether a transfer can revive monies in any shape or form but have to assume that NCAA cant restrict financial aid if needed

Looking for clarification
I believe the coach can decide how to divvy up his money. The coach would probably have to take money away from someone else. Also, there is often money available as coaches increase awards to producing players over time.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
User avatar
youthathletics
Posts: 14447
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by youthathletics »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:10 am
stupefied wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:56 am Can someone answer this question.

If an IVY kid graduates and moves on to another college to play the added eligible year, can he be given scholarship monies out of the original 12.6

Bit confused whether a transfer can revive monies in any shape or form but have to assume that NCAA cant restrict financial aid if needed

Looking for clarification
I believe the coach can decide how to divvy up his money. The coach would probably have to take money away from someone else. Also, there is often money available as coaches increase awards to producing players over time.
Some commentary from LXN and Jamie Munro on this topic. Not much fact anywhere, but worth a listen nonetheless. https://www.instagram.com/p/B-asUPjBywa/
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
stupefied
Posts: 1018
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:23 am

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by stupefied »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:10 am
stupefied wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:56 am Can someone answer this question.

If an IVY kid graduates and moves on to another college to play the added eligible year, can he be given scholarship monies out of the original 12.6

Bit confused whether a transfer can revive monies in any shape or form but have to assume that NCAA cant restrict financial aid if needed

Looking for clarification
I believe the coach can decide how to divvy up his money. The coach would probably have to take money away from someone else. Also, there is often money available as coaches increase awards to producing players over time.
Appreciate clarification .

My understanding was that schools if hey choose can give the same monies to their 5th yr players that return and that wouldn't count agaisnt the 12.6 but they couldn't offer any of those additional scholarship monies (> 12.6 ) to anyone else on roster nor transfers.

Your clarification if I understanding right is that transfers could possibly be given monies from the original 12.6 since coaches reallocate most years.. Two financial determinants of where transfers are likely to land would be what program has financial flexibility and what is actual financial need of transfer. Would think a affluent family would allow wider choice while a player from middle class family would be be more reliant on either some aid or a lower price public. Will be interesting
Ice1570
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 10:24 pm

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by Ice1570 »

stupefied wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:56 am Can someone answer this question.

If an IVY kid graduates and moves on to another college to play the added eligible year, can he be given scholarship monies out of the original 12.6

Bit confused whether a transfer can revive monies in any shape or form but have to assume that NCAA cant restrict financial aid if needed

Looking for clarification
Yes a grad transfer from the Ivy can get athletic scholarship money as long as it is within the 12.6. Teams can only exceed the 12.6 for returning seniors up to the amount those returning seniors received in 2019-20. This exception will only apply for 2020-21. Everyone will have to fit back in under 12.6 beginning in 2021-22.
stupefied
Posts: 1018
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:23 am

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by stupefied »

faircornell wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:23 pm This may be apostasy from an Ivy standpoint, but if you look at the Top Twenty in the coaches' poll, there are a lot of schools who allow grad students to play, have good accelerated MBA or Masters in Finance programs that offer aid. If I put the students first, I'd say, why not go to Duke, UVA, ND, UNC, etc, and get an important long term career qualification for free? Frankly, I don't see the Ivies changing policy, and (absent extensive financial backing) the idea of gaming the system by withdrawing doesn't make sense for many.
This prior take on IVY maintaining policy turned out to be correct.

One question: Realize the academic qualifications are there for most IVY students but would applications for graduate school be too late for Sept 2020 admissions?
User avatar
Matnum PI
Posts: 11102
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:03 pm

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by Matnum PI »

Actor Russell Crowe's Father

Image
Caddy Day
Caddies Welcome 1-1:15
thetruth
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:24 am

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by thetruth »

stupefied wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:16 pm One question: Realize the academic qualifications are there for most IVY students but would applications for graduate school be too late for Sept 2020 admissions?
Excluding Phd and JD programs as well as most MBA programs, I think outside the Ivies that most D1 lacrosse schools will make late admissions work in some 1 year grad programs for a top athlete. It may not be a masters degree that has significant value upon graduation, but it's something.
Gobigred
Posts: 449
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:40 am

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by Gobigred »

thetruth wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:39 pm Excluding Phd and JD programs as well as most MBA programs, I think outside the Ivies that most D1 lacrosse schools will make late admissions work in some 1 year grad programs for a top athlete. It may not be a masters degree that has significant value upon graduation, but it's something.
This is exactly the ethos the Ivy League presidents are set on avoiding: going to college primarily to play a sport rather than to get a meaningful education. Intercollegiate athletics should be an undergraduate extracurricular activity, secondary to your education. These schools don't want to be, or be seen as, a Louisville or Kentucky.
User avatar
QuakerSouth
Posts: 221
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:32 pm

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by QuakerSouth »

^^^ This.
faircornell
Posts: 1633
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by faircornell »

stupefied wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:16 pm
faircornell wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:23 pm This may be apostasy from an Ivy standpoint, but if you look at the Top Twenty in the coaches' poll, there are a lot of schools who allow grad students to play, have good accelerated MBA or Masters in Finance programs that offer aid. If I put the students first, I'd say, why not go to Duke, UVA, ND, UNC, etc, and get an important long term career qualification for free? Frankly, I don't see the Ivies changing policy, and (absent extensive financial backing) the idea of gaming the system by withdrawing doesn't make sense for many.
This prior take on IVY maintaining policy turned out to be correct.

One question: Realize the academic qualifications are there for most IVY students but would applications for graduate school be too late for Sept 2020 admissions?
For grad school admission, I assume that some exceptions would need to be made. I do know that some MBA programs give strong consideration to applicants who have demonstrated leadership, discipline and exceptional performance in practical endeavors. Looking holistically, and FWIW, it seems like it would be a "win win" for a Notre Dame, UVA or Duke to add someone like a Teat, Ierlan or Sowers to both their business and lacrosse programs.
stupefied
Posts: 1018
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:23 am

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by stupefied »

Thanks
cltlax
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:59 am
Location: Charlotte

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by cltlax »

Historically, most of the top MBA programs required significant work experience (2-3 years minimum) prior to enrolling. Not sure if that has changed as it's been 2 decades since I attended.
faircornell
Posts: 1633
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by faircornell »

cltlax wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:45 am Historically, most of the top MBA programs required significant work experience (2-3 years minimum) prior to enrolling. Not sure if that has changed as it's been 2 decades since I attended.
In most cases, this is correct. I do know that many schools leave a few slots open for fresh graduates who have demonstrated signifiant accomplishment. Connor Buczek of Cornell was admitted to Cornell's Johnson School straight from undergraduate (one of a very few that year) since he was viewed as exceptional. I know that some of the top 5 MBA programs do this as well. I do not know if the ACC schools that I have noted have such flexibility. I might be simply being idealistic.
CC10
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:20 am

Re: Ivy League 2020

Post by CC10 »

There are 5th year kids each year who go get an MBA at the 1 year programs, players recently from Gtown went to Duke and another went to ND with no work experience outside of summer internships. Great way to get in and have the lax program help pay some % $$.
Post Reply

Return to “D1 MENS LACROSSE”