New Jersey 2019

HS Girls Lacrosse
lovelax
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New Jersey 2019

Post by lovelax »

Now that laxpower is no more, any idea how the teams will be seeded for playoffs? The NJSIAA meeting from 2018 pre-dates laxpower going dark......
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admin
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Re: New Jersey 2019

Post by admin »

NJ used LaxPower for their seedings?
njbill
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Re: New Jersey 2019

Post by njbill »

admin wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:37 am NJ used LaxPower for their seedings?
Yup, for many years.

The NJSIAA hasn't posted the girls 2019 tournament regs yet so we don't have official word on how the playoffs will be seeded. They have posted the boys 2019 regs, however; and the boys will be using a power point system. I presume the girls will as well. One would think the girls regs will be posted shortly since first practice is March 1, first scrimmage is March 8, and first game is March 27.
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Re: New Jersey 2019

Post by admin »

Yup. very soon. Which reminds me. Need to update the Girl's Schedules, etc. :)

What's a "Power Point System"?
njbill
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Re: New Jersey 2019

Post by njbill »

admin wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:53 am Yup. very soon. Which reminds me. Need to update the Girl's Schedules, etc. :)

What's a "Power Point System"?
Too complicated for my feeble brain. (Actually just tedious to calculate.)

Here are the boys regs which set out the power point rules.

https://www.njsiaa.org/sites/default/fi ... ations.pdf
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admin
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Re: New Jersey 2019

Post by admin »

njbill wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:14 pmToo complicated for my feeble brain. (Actually just tedious to calculate.)
:)
lovelax
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Re: New Jersey 2019

Post by lovelax »

Power points unfairly penalizes teams in tough conferences because it is based on points for a win (6) PLUS points for The School size (1-4) plus points for the number of wins a team you beat has (3 for each). While the points may vary depending on the sport, the system is the same.

Good teams that lose to good teams are rewarded by laxpower based on strength of the teams. They are penalized under the power point system. There is an incentive to avoid the stronger/larger schools and play small/weak schools under the power point system. Smaller schools or those in weak conferences rack up wins and PP but get blown out when playing 500 teams in tough conferences. I always thought laxpower leveled the field here but no more.

We will now have "higher" seeded teams losing to "lower" seeded teams like in basketball and soccer. Laxpower was an excellent predictor with #1 and #2 seeds pretty much ending up playing in the finals for each section over the years. Not so with powerpoints.
Delco Transplant
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Re: New Jersey 2019

Post by Delco Transplant »

Any predictions for the upcoming season? Lots of strong players graduated and there are new coaches at the top 2 teams from last year (Moorestown and Ridgewood). Seems like there will be more parity among the top 10 teams than in recent years. Hopefully the snow will melt and there won't be any more after this weekend so the girls can get some outdoor practices in!
Delco Transplant
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Re: New Jersey 2019

Post by Delco Transplant »

For what it’s worth, the Nike/US Lacrosse Preseason Girls HS National Rankings of the top 25 teams has been published. There are 3 NJ teams in the rankings - Moorestown #7, Ridgewood #18 and Summit # 22 Moorestown has scheduled games this year against Mt. Sinai (#5), Georgetown Visitation (#6), Ridgewood (#18), and Agnes Irwin (#19), and has a scrimmage scheduled against Glenelg (# 12).


https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/high-scho ... nal-top-25
njbill
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2019 Seeding Rules

Post by njbill »

The NJSIAA released the girls 2019 rules today.

https://www.njsiaa.org/sites/default/fi ... ations.pdf

As expected, power points will be used for playoff seeding. A new seeding system was needed due to the demise of LaxPower whose rankings had been used for NJ playoff seeding in prior years.

The general outline is as follows. A team gets six points for a win, zero for a loss. (I am omitting the rules on power points for ties since ties are exceedingly unlikely given the sudden death OT rules.) A team also gets three points for each win by an opponent the team defeated plus one point for each win by an opponent that defeated the team.

Power points are only awarded for a team’s first 13 games and for the first 13 games of the team’s opponents. The rules state that the records of out-of-state opponents must be reported by the team to www.njschoolsports.com. Now that LaxPower is out of business, I wonder if teams will have difficulties finding out the records of their OOS opponents. Hopefully, out of state coaches will cooperate.

The team with the highest number of power points is seeded first, etc. Tie breakers: (1) winning percentage; (2) head to head; (3) common opponent; (4) coin toss. It seems odd (wrong) to me that head to head isn’t the first tie breaker. Also, what is meant by “common opponent”? The results of games against common opponents? How exactly are those results weighed? What if the common opponent was, say, the 10th game for team 1, but the 15th game for team 2? Is that common opponent still used for the tie breaker even though for team 2 the game is outside the 13 game cutoff and wasn’t used for power point purposes?

TOC seeding will be based on power points at the time of initial playoff seeding.

The 13 game rule will cause some tough opponents to be counted for PP purposes and some not to be counted. Looking at the current schedules of Moorestown, Ridgewood, and Summit, the following Moorestown opponents will be included: Georgetown Prep, Bridgewater-Raritan, Haddonfield, Rumson, Lawrenceville, Ridge, Ridgewood, and Mt. Sinai. These opponents won’t count: Hunterdon Central, Agnes Irwin, and Shawnee.

For Ridgewood, Georgetown Visitation, Morristown, Greenwich, Oak Knoll, Lawrenceville, Agnes Irwin, Summit, and Moorestown count while IMG Academy, Garden City, and Glen Ridge don’t.

Summit’s games against Glen Ridge, Mendham, Morristown, Georgetown Prep, Good Counsel, Mt. Lakes, Ridgewood, and IMG Academy will be included while their regular season and possible county tournament games against Oak Knoll won’t.

And oh, by the way, this is before Mother Nature weighs in. A game that was in the first 13 when the season started may get postponed or cancelled, which could cause a game or more outside the initial 13 to end up being counted for power point purposes.

Why only count the first 13 games? Under the LaxPower system, all games played up to the playoff cutoff date (May 8 this year) counted for seeding purposes. I imagine that’s to give whoever is counting the beans (no doubt using abaci) enough time to total up the points.

Lovelax, there is no factor for group size in the rules issued today. You certainly point out a potential weakness in the PP system. Was LaxPower a good way to seed teams (and better than power points)? I think so, but Mrs. Computer has retired. Is there a better way to seed than using power points? A committee of knowledgeable folks might be better in theory, but I can’t imagine it being feasible in practice. Arguing over which team should be 13 and which 14 in North II, Group 2? I love the sport, but no thanks. Maybe we can flush Rimback out on this one. He might have an opinion on seeding.

I think it remains to be seen how well, or poorly, the power point seeding system will work for glax. My guess is it won’t have a huge impact. With pretty rare exceptions, the best teams in each of the 16 sections will still win their sections. After that, games are on neutral fields. Up to the TOC it will only determine which team wears its home jersey. TOC seeding could be impacted, of course, but to win the TOC, you have to beat two teams, whichever ones they may be.
lovelax
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Re: New Jersey 2019

Post by lovelax »

While I can't speak for Rimback I believe he previously posted that he thinks records should outweigh the laxpower computer for seeding. The two of you probably forgot more lacrosse than I will ever know. I agree with NJBill that the best two teams usually show up in the sectional finals anyway but the new seeding may result in the two best teams playing each other in the semifinals...
DAWG2021
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Re: New Jersey 2019

Post by DAWG2021 »

Delco Transplant - Please remember that South Jersey lacrosse does not begin and end with Moorestown :) Haddonfield (last year's Group 2 state champ) is a team on the rise and gave Moorestown all it could handle in the regular season last year. I may be biased, but I believe a strong argument can be made that McKenzie Blake is the best player in South Jersey and one of the very top players in the state. Moorestown will still be strong - and I think they may be even better under the new coach than they would have been under the now retired coaching staff - I have seen Coach Hancox coach on the club level and she will run a more high pace and less old school offense. Don't discount Clearview either - Hailey Russo is another player to watch.
njbill
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Re: New Jersey 2019

Post by njbill »

Hmm. Dawg2021, you wouldn’t be related to a certain 2021 player, now would you? Just a friendly tweak. Blake is a tremendous player, a true budding superstar. Russo is also a read stud. But my vote for best player in South Jersey this year goes to Kayla Frank. All three are certainly among the best players in the state.

Haddonfield is unquestionably a team on the rise. When their glax program first started around ten years ago, I thought they would get real good, real quick. It has taken longer than I thought it would, but they have definitely arrived, not just in South Jersey but state-wide as well, reaching the TOC last year.

Yes, Haddonfield gave Moorestown a tough regular season game in 2018, leading 11-9 in the middle of the second half before falling 16-11, but the Quakers thoroughly dominated the Bulldawgs in the TOC semis (8-0 at half, 13-3 final).

Haddonfield lost four starters to graduation, Moorestown six. Both teams return a strong nucleus of talent. I suspect the regular season game this year will be a tough battle.

One word on Haddonfield’s schedule (well, a few words). They need to beef it up. I have been saying this for a couple of years now. The toughest teams on their schedule this year (aside from Moorestown) are Hunterdon Central, Allentown, Seneca, and Notre Dame (Pa.). Those are some pretty good teams, but they aren’t top state competition. (Yes, I know they are stuck with weak Colonial Conference obligations.) I note there are only 16 games listed on their current schedule so perhaps more games will be added, but Haddonfield is now at the point where they need to be playing teams like Shawnee, Ridgewood, Summit, Oak Knoll, Ridge, Bridgewater-Raritan, and Rumson. My two cents.
lovelax
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Re: New Jersey 2019

Post by lovelax »

Its always hard to disagree with NJBill, who is admittedly a Moorestown "homer". I think Frank was the best/most consistent player for the Quakers last year as well, despite being a junior. I think she goes off again this year. With the Quakers' difficult schedule and depth you don't see huge stats for any individual player.

The opposite is true for Haddonfield. The weak schedule allows for ridiculous stats for the players with little competition to make them better. The Dawg sophomore is very good but the lack of competition precludes balanced comparisons That said the Dawgs senior class is fantastic and deep and they return one of the best defenders from injury this year which will make them stronger.

Sorry NJBill but I think this is the year the Quakers lose to another south jersey team. The Quakers lost some nice players last year and will need new players to step up. The culture and coaching of Mtown is fantastic although they lost some of the aura/mystique these last few years. NJ lacrosse in general was "down" in terms of big out-of-state wins last year. 2015-2017 may have been the apex of NJ girls lacrosse with Summit/Oak Knoll/Ridgewood/Bridgewater-Raritan. We will see if NJ can move back into the top of the national picture again this year.
Delco Transplant
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Re: New Jersey 2019

Post by Delco Transplant »

Lovelax - I agree with your comment "[w]ith the Quakers' difficult schedule and depth you don't see huge stats for any individual player. " Many girls from Moorestown who have not been 4 year varsity players have gone on to have great college careers - a recent example is Tristan McGinley (Moorestown '14/Virginia Tech '18) who had a stellar career at Virginia Tech and was named to last year's Tewaarton Trophy watch list. Moorestown's strength is due, in part, to the depth of its team. The deep talent allows the team to have productive and competitive practices.
Haddonfield could and should schedule tougher teams in NJ and from across the river in PA - for instance, any team from the top half of the Central League, Agnes Irwin, Villa Maria, Archbishop Carroll or Episcopal. I do not think this is the year that Moorestown loses to another South Jersey team - specifically one from Burlington, Camden or Gloucester Counties - as Lawrencville (beat Moorestown last year) could argue they are a South Jersey team!
njbill
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Re: New Jersey 2019

Post by njbill »

lovelax, I’m glad you made it over from LaxPower so we can continue our North vs. South and Moorestown vs. Ridgewood debates. I agree Haddonfield has a strong senior class, but I think Moorestown’s is stronger, actually a good bit stronger. Haven’t seen the new Dawg goalie yet, but I would be quite surprised if she is as good as Moorestown’s this year. Having said that, a number of Haddons who were very young last year now have a varsity season under their belts. And Moorestown did lose a good bit more talent than Haddonfield did. Will this be enough to push the Dawgs over the top this year? I don’t think so, but it is certainly possible. I recall you predicting last year that Haddonfield would beat Moorestown. What I can't recall is if you said that would happen last year or this one.

2017 was indeed a very good year for Jersey in terms of quality out of state wins (who can forget Jersey’s four team sweep at the Gains for Brains) and top national rankings. Bridgewater-Raritan was ranked no. 4 nationally, Ridgewood 6, Summit 19, and Moorestown 23. (Oak Knoll was way too low at 33.) Was it the apex for Jersey? Maybe for North Jersey (couldn’t resist), but not in terms of how high the top Jersey team has been ranked. Moorestown has been higher than 4 a number of times over the years. I did a long analysis on LaxPower (which I no longer have access to) a few years back, listing the rankings of the top Jersey teams over the years. If you go back more than five years, there were at least several years where Moorestown and Shawnee had top rankings. Ridgewood was very strong in 2010-11. What’s in store for Jersey this year? We’ll have to see. Ridgewood, Summit, and Moorestown all have games against top national teams. Let’s hope Jersey runs the table. 😊

I actually think your Maroons may be the team to beat this year. Looking forward to seeing them next week. Will be very interesting to see how the team performs under the new coach (same can be said of Moorestown). While Ridgewood did lose four excellent players to graduation, they have a boat load of returning talent, including their super goalie, now a three year starter. And they have Jackie Wolak for a full year. I was very impressed with her in the TOC final.

Delco Transplant, now it is my turn (you’ll recall Del Co vs. Delco) 😊. Mercer County (Lawrenceville) is definitely not in South Jersey which is comprised of Burlington, Camden, Gloucester, Salem, Cumberland, Atlantic, and Cape May Counties. Moorestown last lost to a South Jersey team on May 24, 2010 (Shawnee) in a big upset that was shocking to the Moorestown faithful. The loss broke Moorestown's nearly 11 year unbeaten streak against Jersey teams. While this may be heresy to some, I think Haddonfield has replaced Shawnee as Moorestown’s biggest South Jersey rival, at least for now. Like with Shawnee, many of the girls on both teams are clubmates so they know each other very well. I suspect it will be a pretty close game on April 13.
livelovelax
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Re: New Jersey 2019

Post by livelovelax »

Dawg2021,

Exception taken. Haddonfield is a very good program, currently. It is great to see this for South Jersey girls lacrosse. But, before you start putting down Moorestown Girls Lacrosse and their former coaches who led a dynasty that including winning 16 Tournament of Champions titles, please win ONE. Haddonfield will be very good this year and should win Group 2 this year. I will go on record as saying Haddonfield will struggle to have a winning record next year. Even with a marginal schedule. Start playing the top teams in NJ and out of state year in and year out and then you can lay claim to getting any respect. Moorestown did that for the last 20 years, even with their so called "antiquated coaching". Really?

MGlax is the standard bearer of girls lacrosse in NJ, still. However, North Jersey has surpassed South Jersey for number of great teams and talent. Way too much population and money and good club programs combined with talented girls coming back to coach their younger girls coming up in youth programs, middle school, high school and club.
DAWG2021
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Re: New Jersey 2019

Post by DAWG2021 »

livelovelax and lovelax - Not sure if your are the same person. Perhaps related? :lol:

njbill, Delco Transplant, livelovelax and lovelax - Point taken on Haddonfield's scheduling, however, it is not as easy to schedule out of state and out of conference games for Haddonfield as it is for Moorestown. Also, Moorestown's "independent" schedule still has a lot of opponents that are curious (at best) for an "elite" program. Take last year for example - regular season wins against Seneca (20-4), Westfield (16-2), Allentown (15-3), Shawnee (16-5), Cherokee (18-2), Holy Cross (19-2), Rancocas Valley (19-4), Clearview (16-5) and South Jersey Tech (20-0). The last one was made up, but wouldn't really be a surprise! lovelax - These games allowed the Moorestown players to pad their stats.

What the former Moorestown coaching staff achieved was very impressive, but at what cost over the past few years? They seemed to focus on developing last year's senior class from the beginning but the younger players did not appear to get much time or development - even when Moorestown was blowing out teams. Haddonfield and other south jersey programs have done a very good of developing underclassmen. It will be interesting to see how many of the younger Moorestown players leave the SJS club program now that they are not captive to the coaching staff.

I'm looking forward to the season for all teams. Here's to hoping for good weather, the girls all staying healthy and the continued growth of the sport.
livelovelax
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Re: New Jersey 2019

Post by livelovelax »

Dawg2021,

Once again, your comments are divisive and show no common sense. Wow, are you in high school? Where do you get your information?

Pad their stats? The former coaching staff in "blowouts" would limit a players stats to 1-2 goals, even though those "star" players could have scored at will on those lesser opponents. That is why there were 6-7 players with 20 or more goals for the season. This was the way it was for the last 20 years. Check the fax before you make irroneous statements.

If Haddonfield did a great job of developing players, then by your own words, they would be a powerhouse in 2020. Ain't gonna happen. I think you are projecting to much. BTW, the Haddonfield coaching staff is very good so I am not targeting them, just responding to your comment with facts.

Schedule? So, Haddonfield can't play any out of state teams? Can't play any North Jersey teams? You really do not know what you are saying. BTW, Clearview, Westfield, RV, Allentown, all had the best years or close to best seasons they ever had, winning Group or Sectional Championships. Please do your homework. Cherokee's senior class was loaded. What happened to them? Shawnee is a rival, that is why they play. The SJS program is as strong as ever especially in the younger grades so again, another fabricated comment.
lovelax
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Re: New Jersey 2019

Post by lovelax »

Take it easy everyone. Clearly Dawg 2021 lacks historical perspective/background here. The MGLax coaches were incredible ambassadors/teachers of the game of lacrosse in New Jersey, especially in south jersey. With that winning and tradition comes the "haters".

As far as scheduling, Mtown used to play in the Burlington County conference and was required to play each team twice and resulted in incredibly lopsided scores....and the aforementioned "two goal " limit. Marie McCool (and others) could have scored 100+ goals every year but the wealth and experience was spread around. Later Mtown only had to play the conference teams one time and in 2016, became "independent" and able to create their own schedule. Unfortunately for the Quakers other teams had caught up and they lost quite a few games and won no state championships in 2016-17. In 2018 they were back on top.

I agree no other schools are their "own scheduling entity" and can create that kind of schedule like the Mtown model. Haddonfield is stuck with its conference schedule and likely has little options for open dates to schedule regional games. That schedule will hurt the Dawgs in late May/June.

That said I have been a huge Dawg fan for the last three years. Their senior class has great two-three sport athletes which results in power field hockey, soccer, and basketball teams....most of the senior lacrosse players also played on these teams. I suspect the Dawgs reign will be short-lived due to graduation of the 2019 class but think they beat the Quakers on April 13. If they meet in the TOC the results will be different due to the aforementioned strength of scheduling issues. (In 2018 the early game was close....the TOC game was not)

I know this thread will bring out NJBIll whose knowledge goes back decades....Where's Rimback?
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