TOPTM?

D1 Womens Lacrosse
seacoaster
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Re: TOPTM?

Post by seacoaster »

I think we can almost all agree on the top four:

1. BC
2. Maryland
3. UNC
4. Syracuse

I should also add that I am just not sure how much space there is between 1 and 2.

I think the next four to six are harder to place, but here goes:

5. Notre Dame
6. UVA
7. Penn
8. Northwestern
9. JHU
10. Michigan
wlaxnut
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Re: TOPTM?

Post by wlaxnut »

I like this ranking. Much more interesting...

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seacoaster
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Re: TOPTM?

Post by seacoaster »

I think there has been some hooka use on the side with that poll. UNC can't slide to 6. Look at the scores of Penn's 9 wins. And I'll believe in Michigan when they take Terp Nation down to the wire.

Here's the most recent Media Poll:

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/league/WDI/polls
wlaxnut
Posts: 1939
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Re: TOPTM?

Post by wlaxnut »

seacoaster wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:09 pm I think there has been some hooka use on the side with that poll. UNC can't slide to 6. The poll you featured has UNC sliding to 4.

That's the thing though--it's a computer derived ranking, if you will. The data is crunched, i.e. strength of schedule, record of opponents vs common opponents, etc. All the stuff they factor in--RPI, whatever, and they come up with the rankings. So strictly by the numbers, UNC slides to 6th. I wouldn't have them 6th either, but it is interesting to ponder what the pure numbers derive at without any subjective tinkering.

Look at the scores of Penn's 9 wins.

Not really impressed with Penn. They've beaten JHU, Duke and Georgetown and lost by 5 to Maryland. They'll get a little test at Northwestern Sunday.

And I'll believe in Michigan when they take Terp Nation down to the wire.

I'm not sure about Michigan yet either, but they have beat multiple ranked teams and are still undefeated. Based on what they have done and not on what they haven't done, I place them firmly in the top 6-8.

Here's the most recent Media Poll:

One of the most recent media polls. There are 3 others: Coaches poll, NCAA poll and Nike/US Lacrosse poll.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/league/WDI/polls
wlaxnut
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Re: TOPTM?

Post by wlaxnut »

BC
Maryland
Syracuse
North Carolina
Michigan
USC
Penn
Notre Dame
Virginia
Northwestern

That’s my top 10, for what it’s worth.
seacoaster
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Re: TOPTM?

Post by seacoaster »

wlaxnut wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:18 am BC
Maryland
Syracuse
North Carolina
Michigan
USC
Penn
Notre Dame
Virginia
Northwestern

That’s my top 10, for what it’s worth.
It's worth as much as more or more than anything I have to say, for sure. I am pretty sure you see more games than I do (I don't see any BTN or ESPN+ games). But I'll say a couple of things:

I am a Syracuse homer, and think UNC will beat Syracuse by 3 to 5 goals when they meet. UNC will punish Syracuse if the Cuse continues to be poor to fair on draws (Francophile!!), and if No. 15 on Syracuse is unable to play (knee, I think), that will hurt Syracuse in between the 30s and a from an overall toughness standpoint. They were without her against Notre Dame and I think it showed.

I think you have Michigan overrated, and I am prepared to eat crow on this, maybe beginning Saturday if the Wolverettes (word?) beat Hopkins soundly at home. But I do agree that Neilson is moving this program along very nicely.

I think you have USC overrated. USC's schedule contains a single elite team, BC, which beat USC 12-9, a sort of creditable loss for USC. I think Colorado and Stanford are good teams, not very good teams or great teams.

Of course, what do I know?
wlaxnut
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Re: TOPTM?

Post by wlaxnut »

seacoaster wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:53 am
wlaxnut wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:18 am BC
Maryland
Syracuse
North Carolina
Michigan
USC
Penn
Notre Dame
Virginia
Northwestern

That’s my top 10, for what it’s worth.
It's worth as much as more or more than anything I have to say, for sure. I am pretty sure you see more games than I do (I don't see any BTN or ESPN+ games). But I'll say a couple of things:

I am a Syracuse homer, and think UNC will beat Syracuse by 3 to 5 goals when they meet. UNC will punish Syracuse if the Cuse continues to be poor to fair on draws (Francophile!!), and if No. 15 on Syracuse is unable to play (knee, I think), that will hurt Syracuse in between the 30s and a from an overall toughness standpoint. They were without her against Notre Dame and I think it showed.

I think you have Michigan overrated, and I am prepared to eat crow on this, maybe beginning Saturday if the Wolverettes (word?) beat Hopkins soundly at home. But I do agree that Neilson is moving this program along very nicely.

I think you have USC overrated. USC's schedule contains a single elite team, BC, which beat USC 12-9, a sort of creditable loss for USC. I think Colorado and Stanford are good teams, not very good teams or great teams.

Of course, what do I know?
That’s cool that you are a Syracuse homer. I discovered and grew to love lacrosse through ESPN3 and the Syracuse Orange back in 2014. I was a Syracuse homer for a few years when Kayla Treanor was playing. It’s a crying shame she didn’t win the Tewaaraton as talented as she was. Loved when Halle Majorana joined her, and then Taylor Gait who was also one of my favorites.

Yeah—I have Michigan high but apparently the computer agrees with me. I think they’re just as worthy as any of the other prospective #5’s but it is undoubtedly a poll with my bias. Same goes for USC. They’re taking care of business in their conference and elsewhere except against BC, which 10 other teams can claim, as well. Again, admittedly a personal bias.

Definitely looking forward to Michigan hosting JHU this weekend. Big conference matchup with much on the line.

We shall see against the Heels but I think it will be a tighter game. Syracuse wants to prove their #3 ranking is legitimate.
wlaxnut
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Re: TOPTM?

Post by wlaxnut »

1 - BC
2 - Maryland
3 - Michigan
4 - Syracuse
5 - Notre Dame
6 - North Carolina
7 - USC
8 - Northwestern
9 - Navy
10 - Dartmouth
seacoaster
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Re: TOPTM?

Post by seacoaster »

BC
Maryland



Syracuse
Notre Dame
UNC
Virginia
Northwestern
Michigan
USC
Princeton

It would be helpful if Michigan played someone from the top 5, so I could get a feeling for how good they really are. And no UVA in your top ten? They are 9-4, and the losses are to Syracuse, Notre Dame, UNC and BC. The strength of schedule disparity between UVA and Michigan has to mean something until Michigan beats a consensus top team.
wlaxnut
Posts: 1939
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:00 am

Re: TOPTM?

Post by wlaxnut »

seacoaster wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:45 am BC
Maryland



Syracuse
Notre Dame
UNC
Virginia
Northwestern
Michigan
USC
Princeton

It would be helpful if Michigan played someone from the top 5, so I could get a feeling for how good they really are. And no UVA in your top ten? They are 9-4, and the losses are to Syracuse, Notre Dame, UNC and BC. The strength of schedule disparity between UVA and Michigan has to mean something until Michigan beats a consensus top team.
I hear what you’re saying, and by a certain logic you are correct. But my way of thinking is, it’s not an official poll, just a poll with a little personal favoritism to make it mine. Plus, it can’t be any more out of whack than what the pollsters did last year in making Stony Brook number one for most of the season.

As far as Michigan goes, I put them at number three because they are one of three teams still undefeated, and they have passed every test so far. I am under no illusions that they are among the elite in the country. They’ll probably get schooled and humbled next weekend versus the Mighty Terps of Maryland in Maryland, which will be a good learning experience for them. But for now, I’m going to put them on a high perch for a week.

As for Virginia, I think they are a predictable team in that as soon as they play the best teams, they don’t have enough to compete, so they don’t make my top 10. I know technically, they should be there, and they probably will be when the polls come out today, but it’s just my way of making my poll my own. Just having a little fun with it. Plus, it does generate discussion – which is always good.
DMac
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Re: TOPTM?

Post by DMac »

Have never been much of a polls/rankings kind of guy but since this is one that offers a little personal favoritism I'd replace Northwestrn with Viginia because...well, because Virginia wears skirts and Northwestern wears shorts.
Sorry, that was just wayyyyy too irresistable.
BAN SHORTS.
SKIRTS RULE.
SKIRTS PUT THE W IN WLAX!!!!!
wlaxnut
Posts: 1939
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:00 am

Re: TOPTM?

Post by wlaxnut »

DMac wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:11 am Have never been much of a polls/rankings kind of guy but since this is one that offers a little personal favoritism I'd replace Northwestrn with Viginia because...well, because Virginia wears skirts and Northwestern wears shorts.
Sorry, that was just wayyyyy too irresistable.
BAN SHORTS.
SKIRTS RULE.
SKIRTS PUT THE W IN WLAX!!!!!
USC and Dartmouth wear shorts, too.
seacoaster
Posts: 8866
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:36 pm

Re: TOPTM?

Post by seacoaster »

wlaxnut wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:23 am
seacoaster wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:45 am BC
Maryland



Syracuse
Notre Dame
UNC
Virginia
Northwestern
Michigan
USC
Princeton

It would be helpful if Michigan played someone from the top 5, so I could get a feeling for how good they really are. And no UVA in your top ten? They are 9-4, and the losses are to Syracuse, Notre Dame, UNC and BC. The strength of schedule disparity between UVA and Michigan has to mean something until Michigan beats a consensus top team.
I hear what you’re saying, and by a certain logic you are correct. But my way of thinking is, it’s not an official poll, just a poll with a little personal favoritism to make it mine. Plus, it can’t be any more out of whack than what the pollsters did last year in making Stony Brook number one for most of the season.

As far as Michigan goes, I put them at number three because they are one of three teams still undefeated, and they have passed every test so far. I am under no illusions that they are among the elite in the country. They’ll probably get schooled and humbled next weekend versus the Mighty Terps of Maryland in Maryland, which will be a good learning experience for them. But for now, I’m going to put them on a high perch for a week.

As for Virginia, I think they are a predictable team in that as soon as they play the best teams, they don’t have enough to compete, so they don’t make my top 10. I know technically, they should be there, and they probably will be when the polls come out today, but it’s just my way of making my poll my own. Just having a little fun with it. Plus, it does generate discussion – which is always good.
Completely appreciate what you say here. My stupid "poll" is just an effort to actually see if I can organize the teams from best to next best and so on and so on.....Still, UVA -- and I'm not a UVA fan -- has only lost to the top four or six teams, and has beaten some good teams, like Loyola, JMU, Navy and Duke. Just not seeing Michigan running the UVA schedule gauntlet without a bloody nose or three.
wlaxnut
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Re: TOPTM?

Post by wlaxnut »

seacoaster wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:27 am
Completely appreciate what you say here. My stupid "poll" is just an effort to actually see if I can organize the teams from best to next best and so on and so on.....Still, UVA -- and I'm not a UVA fan -- has only lost to the top four or six teams, and has beaten some good teams, like Loyola, JMU, Navy and Duke.

Precisely my point, UVA can beat the good teams but they lose to the elite teams. You can certainly say that Michigan has beaten all their good teams. I would match up their good team wins with Virginia’s good team wins any day. And I agree with you, I’m reasonably sure that when Michigan goes up against the elite they will lose just like UVA.

Just not seeing Michigan running the UVA schedule gauntlet without a bloody nose or three.
I understand where you’re coming from on Virginia. Now you know how I felt last year with Stony Brook. But I think I can make a better argument for Michigan being number three at this point in the season than Stony Brook being number one last year. I will die on that hill – haha. 😉
seacoaster
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Re: TOPTM?

Post by seacoaster »

Decided to put these comments here, on the so-called polls pages.

Well, I watched first the BC-Notre Dame game in the early afternoon. Really impressed with both of these teams. Whatever else you need to know about Notre Dame, this is the thing: they are unafraid, tough, physical and talented enough offensively that you are going to have to score to win. And even then, BC was almost clinical in managing this game to a win. Wlaxnut is right: the supporting cast for the big three on BC -- Apuzzo, Arsenault and Kent -- is very good. Urbank and Rietano, in particular, had terrific games. BC's goalie was superb.

And then in the evening, I finally got to watch Maryland play a whole game, against a ranked opponent, and kill the ranked opponent. Maryland's offense is just a pleasure to watch, with a ton of weapons at every spot in 7v7. The midfield of Evans, Giles and Griffin may be the best trio in the country. To be fair, I thought Virginia played poorly in the first half, failed to push in transition and take advantage of the slow break, and instead allowed Maryland's settled defense to control the play and tempo. Maryland's goalie is among the very best, if not the best, pure stopper in the country.

BC has four games left before the ACC tournament: Duke, Virginia Tech, Louisville and Yale. All Ws. Then they host the ACC tournament in Chestnut Hill, which will be a remarkable exhibition of the state of the art in this game. I think BC just wants to get out of that tournament healthy and uninjured.

Maryland has Michigan, Northwestern, Georgetown and JHU and then the B1G tournament. Although I am very interested to see how Michigan fares, I don't see any different scenario for Maryland than I see for BC. Win out, and get to the NCAA tournament seeded 1 or 2, healthy and uninjured.

So...can we rely on a Maryland-BC final? It would be an epic battle, assuming everyone is healthy -- and assuming Syracuse or North Carolina don't surprise me.
wlaxnut
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:00 am

Re: TOPTM?

Post by wlaxnut »

seacoaster wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:47 am Decided to put these comments here, on the so-called polls pages.

Well, I watched first the BC-Notre Dame game in the early afternoon. Really impressed with both of these teams. Whatever else you need to know about Notre Dame, this is the thing: they are unafraid, tough, physical and talented enough offensively that you are going to have to score to win. And even then, BC was almost clinical in managing this game to a win. Wlaxnut is right: the supporting cast for the big three on BC -- Apuzzo, Arsenault and Kent -- is very good. Urbank and Rietano, in particular, had terrific games. BC's goalie was superb.

Taylor Walker is another player in the supporting cast who is quietly dangerous. 9 of her 22 goals are free position. 2 game winners as well, thus far.

And then in the evening, I finally got to watch Maryland play a whole game, against a ranked opponent, and kill the ranked opponent. Maryland's offense is just a pleasure to watch, with a ton of weapons at every spot in 7v7. The midfield of Evans, Giles and Griffin may be the best trio in the country. To be fair, I thought Virginia played poorly in the first half, failed to push in transition and take advantage of the slow break, and instead allowed Maryland's settled defense to control the play and tempo.

This is what bothers me about Virginia. They don't seem to have any fight in them. There doesn't seem to be anything about this team that will fight you to the last second no matter what the score is. No desperation. No giving of their all.

Maryland's goalie is among the very best, if not the best, pure stopper in the country.

BC has four games left before the ACC tournament: Duke, Virginia Tech, Louisville and Yale. All Ws. Then they host the ACC tournament in Chestnut Hill, which will be a remarkable exhibition of the state of the art in this game. I think BC just wants to get out of that tournament healthy and uninjured.

I was thinking about this just the other day. The ACC tournament this year could be a real death struggle, especially if injuries are incurred, like you said. BC could conceivably play both Notre Dame and North Carolina again, not to mention Syracuse. None of those will be easy games, especially the second time around, I'm guessing. Injuries could be a big concern against teams like that, who you know will be giving their all against BC. Same with Maryland. They have the three toughest teams in their conference coming up during the regular season and they could play two of them again in the conference championship. Not too easy a task this year.

Maryland has Michigan, Northwestern, Georgetown and JHU and then the B1G tournament. Although I am very interested to see how Michigan fares,

I'm pretty sure Maryland will handle Michigan fairly easily. I'm hoping that Michigan really fights, though. That's primarily what I'll be watching for Saturday--how will they handle playing (and probably losing to) their first elite team. Will they be defiant and fight to the bitter end? And how will they rebound? Coming to the end of a 15 game winning streak will certainly be something to process. But hey--who knows--they might shock the lacrosse world. They are a very scrappy bunch with some scoring prowess. Again--I'm anticipating an easy Terp victory--but I can dream for 36 more hours.

I don't see any different scenario for Maryland than I see for BC. Win out, and get to the NCAA tournament seeded 1 or 2, healthy and uninjured.

So...can we rely on a Maryland-BC final? It would be an epic battle, assuming everyone is healthy -- and assuming Syracuse or North Carolina don't surprise me.

All signs are pointing to it. North Carolina or Syracuse could indeed upset Maryland if they meet again. I don't think the Terps want to see either team again this year. BC/Maryland shapes up be an epic battle indeed. Whatever the scenario, I'm hoping the season ends with BC finally crowned national champ.
I appreciated reading this (a few times). More interesting and readable than anything being written in any of the lacrosse magazines these days.
wlaxnut
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Re: TOPTM?

Post by wlaxnut »

1 - BC
2 - Maryland
3 - Syracuse
4 - Northwestern
5 - Michigan
6 - UNC
7 - Princeton
8 - Notre Dame
9 - Virginia
10 - Loyola
wlaxnut
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:00 am

Re: TOPTM?

Post by wlaxnut »

BC
Maryland
NC
ND
NU
Syracuse
Michigan
Princeton
Dartmouth
Stony Brook
seacoaster
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Re: TOPTM?

Post by seacoaster »

BC
Maryland


NC

Syracuse
ND
NU


Virginia
Princeton
Michigan
Dartmouth

The fact of the matter is that Syracuse, while listless yesterday against UNC, has beaten Notre Dame and Northwestern head to head. I am stuck with those three teams in that order, even though I think Notre Dame is the best of those three teams. By the same token, I have kept Michigan ahead of Dartmouth because of the early season head to head win. But I think Dartmouth is a better team right now.
wlaxnut
Posts: 1939
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:00 am

Re: TOPTM?

Post by wlaxnut »

seacoaster wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:01 am BC
Maryland


NC

Syracuse
ND
NU


Virginia
Princeton
Michigan
Dartmouth

The fact of the matter is that Syracuse, while listless yesterday against UNC, has beaten Notre Dame and Northwestern head to head. I am stuck with those three teams in that order, even though I think Notre Dame is the best of those three teams. By the same token, I have kept Michigan ahead of Dartmouth because of the early season head to head win. But I think Dartmouth is a better team right now.
Very logical top 10. Solid. Nice to see the Wolverettes in your top 10 ;)

One little tweak I will make though: Northwestern scored a goal against Syracuse that was very clear on the replay but the refs waved it off. If Northwestern gets that goal, the game ends with them winning. And that was in The Dome.

I agree with your thinking on the Irish. I think they beat Syracuse if they played now. (And we may very well see that in less than two weeks – who knows.)

Michigan/Dartmouth— that would be a real rock fight if they played again this year. Both of them really get after you on defense and they prefer to do it a little rough.
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