Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

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LaxGuy17
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Re: Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

Post by LaxGuy17 »

Badlands wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:46 pm
laxorangebookworm wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:19 pm
Dr. Tact wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:01 pm OK look at the VT and W&m game today. 23-3. One player, who happens to be a T watch list player, has 7 goals? 2 other starters have 4 goals, another with 3. Those 4 starters, 18 goals.... Is that necessary? Boost stats much?
Well, 5 of Petty's 7 goals were in the first half. 6th came about six minutes into the 2nd half. I agree that she shouldn't have been out there 12 minutes in, but what are you going to tell her? Not to score? She's the go-to player for the team.
Here’s what I would tell her and the three other starters who combined for 18 goals: “We’re going to beat this team by 20 whether you four score 18 goals or whether your teammates score 18, so for this game we’re going to let your teammates get the glory. You guys can each score one early but from then on I’m going to sub you regularly and when you’re on the field you’re going to set up your teammates. I’d love to see you each have one goal and at least 3 assists, and make sure you support the hell out of your teammates when they’re on the field.”

I’ve got plenty of experience with this scenario. The Twon candidate scores 8 in the first half against The Little Sisters and then when the clueless coach finally gets the subs in way later than she should’ve, she tells them they can only score one goal each because we’re already ahead by so many. Leads to resentment in the locker room. Bad for team morale.
I agree with the sentiment. Here’s an idea though. Use your strong offensive skills to set up your teammates. I have no problem with 1 goal and 6 assists in that same game if the Team candidate feels the need to pad their stats. Oh and by the way as a Coach, after a 7 or 8 goal lead, every single goal has to be assisted and we start working the clock.
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Dr. Tact
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Re: Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

Post by Dr. Tact »

LaxGuy17 wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:30 am
Badlands wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:46 pm
laxorangebookworm wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:19 pm
Dr. Tact wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:01 pm OK look at the VT and W&m game today. 23-3. One player, who happens to be a T watch list player, has 7 goals? 2 other starters have 4 goals, another with 3. Those 4 starters, 18 goals.... Is that necessary? Boost stats much?
Well, 5 of Petty's 7 goals were in the first half. 6th came about six minutes into the 2nd half. I agree that she shouldn't have been out there 12 minutes in, but what are you going to tell her? Not to score? She's the go-to player for the team.
Here’s what I would tell her and the three other starters who combined for 18 goals: “We’re going to beat this team by 20 whether you four score 18 goals or whether your teammates score 18, so for this game we’re going to let your teammates get the glory. You guys can each score one early but from then on I’m going to sub you regularly and when you’re on the field you’re going to set up your teammates. I’d love to see you each have one goal and at least 3 assists, and make sure you support the hell out of your teammates when they’re on the field.”

I’ve got plenty of experience with this scenario. The Twon candidate scores 8 in the first half against The Little Sisters and then when the clueless coach finally gets the subs in way later than she should’ve, she tells them they can only score one goal each because we’re already ahead by so many. Leads to resentment in the locker room. Bad for team morale.
I agree with the sentiment. Here’s an idea though. Use your strong offensive skills to set up your teammates. I have no problem with 1 goal and 6 assists in that same game if the Team candidate feels the need to pad their stats. Oh and by the way as a Coach, after a 7 or 8 goal lead, every single goal has to be assisted and we start working the clock.
All of the above are good suggestions. I wish there was a little more humility in the way that this particular coach led his team against lesser opponents. The pendulum is going to swing and maybe his strategy of keeping starters in will help with confidence/game awareness/game shape when he plays much better teams...Maybe that is the strategy all along, and you cant tell the girls to not score....hmm :?: I take the approach of getting in the sideline players when you have a 10-1 halftime lead (Radford), a 12-3 halftime lead (Liberty) or a 14-2 halftime lead (Cinc. and W&M) so they get meaningful minutes. Rotate your starters through with the bench players, so they get a feel of what it would be like if they were called to come on the field and contribute. Then, as mentioned above, if your starter(s) can feed the sideline players, it is a win/win scenario. Otherwise, those sideline players get really good at doing silly sideline celebrations and that's about it.

It rubs me the wrong way, because this game (VT/W&M) was not an outlier. This has occurred in multiple beat downs on much lesser teams. When you look at the scores and then look at the promotion, it creates a story (is that a good, story? I guess that depends on your perspective). The coach can do what he wants and he's certainly not listening to little ole me. These are the optics I see... [full disclosure - I am a VT graduate]

From VT Twitter:

Image

Image

Image
seacoaster
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Re: Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

Post by seacoaster »

I like that the VT narrative misspells the word "following," "follwong."
Lax247
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Re: Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

Post by Lax247 »

Dr. Tact wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:44 am
LaxGuy17 wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:30 am
Badlands wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:46 pm
laxorangebookworm wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:19 pm
Dr. Tact wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:01 pm OK look at the VT and W&m game today. 23-3. One player, who happens to be a T watch list player, has 7 goals? 2 other starters have 4 goals, another with 3. Those 4 starters, 18 goals.... Is that necessary? Boost stats much?
Well, 5 of Petty's 7 goals were in the first half. 6th came about six minutes into the 2nd half. I agree that she shouldn't have been out there 12 minutes in, but what are you going to tell her? Not to score? She's the go-to player for the team.
Here’s what I would tell her and the three other starters who combined for 18 goals: “We’re going to beat this team by 20 whether you four score 18 goals or whether your teammates score 18, so for this game we’re going to let your teammates get the glory. You guys can each score one early but from then on I’m going to sub you regularly and when you’re on the field you’re going to set up your teammates. I’d love to see you each have one goal and at least 3 assists, and make sure you support the hell out of your teammates when they’re on the field.”

I’ve got plenty of experience with this scenario. The Twon candidate scores 8 in the first half against The Little Sisters and then when the clueless coach finally gets the subs in way later than she should’ve, she tells them they can only score one goal each because we’re already ahead by so many. Leads to resentment in the locker room. Bad for team morale.
I agree with the sentiment. Here’s an idea though. Use your strong offensive skills to set up your teammates. I have no problem with 1 goal and 6 assists in that same game if the Team candidate feels the need to pad their stats. Oh and by the way as a Coach, after a 7 or 8 goal lead, every single goal has to be assisted and we start working the clock.
All of the above are good suggestions. I wish there was a little more humility in the way that this particular coach led his team against lesser opponents. The pendulum is going to swing and maybe his strategy of keeping starters in will help with confidence/game awareness/game shape when he plays much better teams...Maybe that is the strategy all along, and you cant tell the girls to not score....hmm :?: I take the approach of getting in the sideline players when you have a 10-1 halftime lead (Radford), a 12-3 halftime lead (Liberty) or a 14-2 halftime lead (Cinc. and W&M) so they get meaningful minutes. Rotate your starters through with the bench players, so they get a feel of what it would be like if they were called to come on the field and contribute. Then, as mentioned above, if your starter(s) can feed the sideline players, it is a win/win scenario. Otherwise, those sideline players get really good at doing silly sideline celebrations and that's about it.

It rubs me the wrong way, because this game (VT/W&M) was not an outlier. This has occurred in multiple beat downs on much lesser teams. When you look at the scores and then look at the promotion, it creates a story (is that a good, story? I guess that depends on your perspective). The coach can do what he wants and he's certainly not listening to little ole me. These are the optics I see... [full disclosure - I am a VT graduate]

From VT Twitter:

Image

Image

Image
It’s one thing to self promote...it’s another to mis lead
Since the Ortega Hoeg duo are still in top 10 in scoring despite being subbed in blow out games 🤔🤔🤔
Can’t wait for the beat down that’s coming when they start meaningful ACC play...(SYR Sunday)
wlaxnut
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Re: Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

Post by wlaxnut »

Lax247 wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:36 am Since the Ortega Hoeg duo are still in top 10 in scoring despite being subbed in blow out games 🤔🤔🤔
Can’t wait for the beat down that’s coming when they start meaningful ACC play...(SYR Sunday)
Not always, though. Look who the high scoring duo is here at the end of a blowout game earlier this season.
last 5.png
last 5.png (120.41 KiB) Viewed 3335 times
Lax247
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Re: Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

Post by Lax247 »

wlaxnut wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:59 am
Lax247 wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:36 am Since the Ortega Hoeg duo are still in top 10 in scoring despite being subbed in blow out games 🤔🤔🤔
Can’t wait for the beat down that’s coming when they start meaningful ACC play...(SYR Sunday)
Not always, though. Look who the high scoring duo is here at the end of a blowout game earlier this season.


last 5.png
One game....it happens..not the majority of blow out games like VT The point being VT is blatantly “mis-leading” to self promote
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Dr. Tact
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Re: Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

Post by Dr. Tact »

Lax247 wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:36 am It’s one thing to self promote...it’s another to mis lead
Since the Ortega Hoeg duo are still in top 10 in scoring despite being subbed in blow out games 🤔🤔🤔
Can’t wait for the beat down that’s coming when they start meaningful ACC play...(SYR Sunday)
I agree with you...as I said before....And it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall
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Dr. Tact
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Re: Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

Post by Dr. Tact »

Dr. Tact wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:44 am
From VT Twitter:

Image
BTW when you look at this "margin of victory" is that something to be proud of? I guess it is if it was ND, Cuse, UNC, UVA, JMU, Duke....but it is Liberty, Radford, Elon, Cincinnati, Louisville and William & Mary
laxorangebookworm
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Re: Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

Post by laxorangebookworm »

Dr. Tact wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:43 am
Dr. Tact wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:44 am
From VT Twitter:

Image
BTW when you look at this "margin of victory" is that something to be proud of? I guess it is if it was ND, Cuse, UNC, UVA, JMU, Duke....but it is Liberty, Radford, Elon, Cincinnati, Louisville and William & Mary
Every athletic department dumps that garbage out on it's website/twitter/etc. All of them. That's why I don't pay much attention to those. It's pure propaganda for the most part. Every once in a while they put out some useful information, but for the most part, it's gushing rainbows and unicorn farts. And it's for every sport that department has, not just women's lacrosse. If you're looking for objective analysis on those sites, you're gonna wait a long, long time.
wlaxnut
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Re: Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

Post by wlaxnut »

Lax247 wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:12 am
wlaxnut wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:59 am
Lax247 wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:36 am Since the Ortega Hoeg duo are still in top 10 in scoring despite being subbed in blow out games 🤔🤔🤔
Can’t wait for the beat down that’s coming when they start meaningful ACC play...(SYR Sunday)
Not always, though. Look who the high scoring duo is here at the end of a blowout game earlier this season.


last 5.png
One game....it happens..not the majority of blow out games like VT The point being VT is blatantly “mis-leading” to self promote
Nope—there’s more. I just gave you the most dramatic one.
laxorangebookworm
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Re: Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

Post by laxorangebookworm »

What's the litmus test for pulling starters in a blowout? 10 goals? 15? Should starting players' playing time get cut because of a big lead? What if they need more time to practice techniques, running plays or what not? What if pulling them leads to a comeback by the other opponent? I think these are legit questions.
8meterPA
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Re: Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

Post by 8meterPA »

Dr. Tact wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:39 am
Lax247 wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:36 am It’s one thing to self promote...it’s another to mis lead
Since the Ortega Hoeg duo are still in top 10 in scoring despite being subbed in blow out games 🤔🤔🤔
Can’t wait for the beat down that’s coming when they start meaningful ACC play...(SYR Sunday)
I agree with you...as I said before....And it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall
Doc, agree with your sentiments here as well as others, but since you're the one who quoted Dylan I'm responding to yours! This goes back to my rant about NW dropping 30 goals on Detroit Mercy. Stat stuffing is one way to destroy the game, IMO.
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Dr. Tact
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Re: Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

Post by Dr. Tact »

8meterPA wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:06 pm
Dr. Tact wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:39 am
Lax247 wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:36 am It’s one thing to self promote...it’s another to mis lead
Since the Ortega Hoeg duo are still in top 10 in scoring despite being subbed in blow out games 🤔🤔🤔
Can’t wait for the beat down that’s coming when they start meaningful ACC play...(SYR Sunday)
I agree with you...as I said before....And it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall
Doc, agree with your sentiments here as well as others, but since you're the one who quoted Dylan I'm responding to yours! This goes back to my rant about NW dropping 30 goals on Detroit Mercy. Stat stuffing is one way to destroy the game, IMO.
Yeah, slightly different issue, but related. It is unfortunate that a storied program like that (or any program) doesnt have a plan to address a major mismatch and execute it. I think that removing starters almost immediately is prudent as it serves many functions - gets your bench players in, saves the starters from injury. From the other team's perspective, you want to measure against the starters, but after a 10 goal lead, it shouldnt be about winning/losing, but about improving against Big Girl Lax...

I guess my biggest issue with the stat boosting isnt VT having players that are getting inflated stats against the LSOTP, its the arrogance that follows that in the social media. If you get those stats, whether it is Goal differential or leading 2 mid-fielder scorers, and, its against top 25 teams, that is one thing, go ahead toot your horn. But blasting out that you have a goal differential of 12.5 goals against Radford and the like? Come on man.....
cltlax
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Re: Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

Post by cltlax »

Dr. Tact wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:36 pm
8meterPA wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:06 pm
Doc, agree with your sentiments here as well as others, but since you're the one who quoted Dylan I'm responding to yours! This goes back to my rant about NW dropping 30 goals on Detroit Mercy. Stat stuffing is one way to destroy the game, IMO.
Yeah, slightly different issue, but related. It is unfortunate that a storied program like that (or any program) doesnt have a plan to address a major mismatch and execute it. I think that removing starters almost immediately is prudent as it serves many functions - gets your bench players in, saves the starters from injury. From the other team's perspective, you want to measure against the starters, but after a 10 goal lead, it shouldnt be about winning/losing, but about improving against Big Girl Lax...

I guess my biggest issue with the stat boosting isnt VT having players that are getting inflated stats against the LSOTP, its the arrogance that follows that in the social media. If you get those stats, whether it is Goal differential or leading 2 mid-fielder scorers, and, its against top 25 teams, that is one thing, go ahead toot your horn. But blasting out that you have a goal differential of 12.5 goals against Radford and the like? Come on man.....
They are about to get a wake-up call on Sunday in Charlotte. Syracuse isn't Radford.
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Dr. Tact
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Post by Dr. Tact »

cltlax wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:51 pm They are about to get a wake-up call on Sunday in Charlotte. Syracuse isn't Radford.
Can I get an amen???!!
Badlands
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Re: Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

Post by Badlands »

Didn’t Cuse a couple of years ago schedule games on consecutive days or two games the same day with the second one against a much weaker opponent? My recollection is that Gary barely played any starters, if at all, and told the reserves that it was up to them to win the game and that if it got close he wasn’t going to put any starters in. It was up to them to secure a win. And I’m pretty sure his backups proved that the backups at Cuse and similar programs can pretty easily win games against starters from most mid-level D1 programs.
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Dr. Tact
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Badlands wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:08 pm Didn’t Cuse a couple of years ago schedule games on consecutive days or two games the same day with the second one against a much weaker opponent? My recollection is that Gary barely played any starters, if at all, and told the reserves that it was up to them to win the game and that if it got close he wasn’t going to put any starters in. It was up to them to secure a win. And I’m pretty sure his backups proved that the backups at Cuse and similar programs can pretty easily win games against starters from most mid-level D1 programs.
February 18, 2017.....Canisius and Binghamton
Badlands
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Re: Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

Post by Badlands »

Dr. Tact wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:16 pm
Badlands wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:08 pm Didn’t Cuse a couple of years ago schedule games on consecutive days or two games the same day with the second one against a much weaker opponent? My recollection is that Gary barely played any starters, if at all, and told the reserves that it was up to them to win the game and that if it got close he wasn’t going to put any starters in. It was up to them to secure a win. And I’m pretty sure his backups proved that the backups at Cuse and similar programs can pretty easily win games against starters from most mid-level D1 programs.
February 18, 2017.....Canisius and Binghamton
See, I didn’t have to research it. I knew one of you geniuses would have the details committed to memory.
laxorangebookworm
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Re: Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

Post by laxorangebookworm »

Badlands wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:08 pm Didn’t Cuse a couple of years ago schedule games on consecutive days or two games the same day with the second one against a much weaker opponent? My recollection is that Gary barely played any starters, if at all, and told the reserves that it was up to them to win the game and that if it got close he wasn’t going to put any starters in. It was up to them to secure a win. And I’m pretty sure his backups proved that the backups at Cuse and similar programs can pretty easily win games against starters from most mid-level D1 programs.
Yep, in 2016. The Orange had a noon game against, um, (mutters...Loyola), and won that game 17-6. Syracuse then played Binghamton at 7:30pm with (mostly...more on that in a second) all reserves and they won 9-6. I remember that game because Binghamton actually had a one goal lead twice and it was tied seven minutes into the second half (using the box score to help the memory a little). It was concerning enough that Gait did add a couple of offensive starters in later on. Riley Donahue and Nicole Levy both had some time late when SU pulled away. That was a very annoying game to follow because Syracuse could have easily lost that one if some of the starters weren't brought in at the end. I think Gait said something to the effect post-game that he wouldn't do that again and would mix the starters and reserves more evenly in the future.

Up through 2017, Gait routinely put 18-19 games on the schedule for Syracuse because of a loophole in the rules. The original rule was that teams could play on 17 dates max, not 17 games. So Gait would schedule doubleheaders a couple of times early on to give his reserves more experience. This pissed off other coaches, including the Duke coach, who was in charge that of the rules committee (can't remember which one it was, but I'm going off of an old article that was out way back when). She said essentially that they were looking to close that loophole and they apparently did (without any fanfare, because I could find no info at the time about the change). I'm assuming that the wording was changed to 17 games because in starting in 2018, SU has played 17 games. BTW, Coach Sung of VT like Gait's practice and actually did that with the Hokies in 2017. Again, VT has only played 17 games since then.

It wasn't in 2017 against Canisius/Binghamton, because the starters definitely played in those two games. Not to be a total nerd about it or anything.
laxagainsthumanity
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Re: Miscellaneous questions, thoughts, impressions, etc.

Post by laxagainsthumanity »

'Cuse had those massive rosters approaching 50 girls in those days and it was nice that Gary obviously cared that they all got to see at least some playing time, since most coaches don't always seem to.

Don't blame Petty for scoring instead of assisting. She's going out and doing her job, fitting into their style of play the way she's supposed to, the way they've practiced and the way her teammates expect. If the coach wants her to play another way, it's up to him to tell her. This kind of thing obviously leaves a bad taste in your mouth but it's not the player's responsibility to change her style of play.
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