Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

D1 Womens Lacrosse
laxinforlife
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by laxinforlife »

Parity is coming and will come. Today, at the IL Women’s Indoor Lacrosse Nationals (the top 32 high school teams are invited to play each other. It’s super fun for all the girls to play to win.
A teaxm from Florida took out McDonough & Eastport Manor to WIn the whole tournament!! Definitely is a good example of parity coming.
8meterPA
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by 8meterPA »

I’d take the results of the IL event with a grain of salt and surprised that the event was even held this year. It’s a gimmicky tournament, small indoor field, I believe only 7 players per side, no draw except for start of the game. A team with 3 strong players can make a run. A lot of kids from our area don’t make the trip because they are in winter sports and this is an out of season event. I don’t think you can even find that event on the IL website and wasnt really promoted, it’s basically another money grab, $1,700 per team, I think they’ve had 3 different sponsors in the 3 years of its existence.
laxinforlife
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by laxinforlife »

LaxGuy17 wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:04 am
Nereo1234 wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:31 pm It will be difficult to have parity. After all is not strange to see teams dominating
I think parity in d1 will be achieved over time in two ways. 1) the sheer growth of the numbers of youth playing the sport and the expansion of the numbers of schools involved. 12 scholarships and caps on the number of travelers teams can carry will naturally spread the wealth over time. BC, SB and JMU emergence are no accident! 2) Changes in the game to make it faster, more physical and more athletic have changed the way the game is viewed by althletes in other sports. When the rules changes for free movement, self starts and possibly shot clocks hit the HS ranks (some have just been passed), the growth of this sport will really take off, further spreading talented athletes.
I agree with this and think that the game is moving more that way.
The IL tournament is 7v7- however it is 50 minute games 2-25 minute halves with a 3 minute halftime.
The teams that played were high level and really good. Several former college coaches who for various reasons have left the college ranks and are now coaching high school brought their teams. McDonough, Mt. Sinai, Ridgewood, St. Paul’s, East Port Manor, Oak Noll, Good Counsel,St. Stephens St. Agnes, Bishop Ireton..Sacred Heart Greenwich. The Baypoint Bluepoint team had 12 Division 1 commits. I don’t think that you can discount it at all. The team that won from Florida beast McDonough and East Port Manor. The high school teams played with a 60 second shot clock which was so enjoyable to watch. I think that the IL tournament is a great example of the direction lacrosse is going and a good representation of the parity coming as well.
crusader
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by crusader »

The indoor game is a separate creature. No real defense so it is a game for 1v1 dodging. Shooting space rarely called as well it is go to goal.Some of my best players were actually not great indoors and vice versa.
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Dr. Tact
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by Dr. Tact »

8meterPA wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:06 pm I’d take the results of the IL event with a grain of salt and surprised that the event was even held this year. It’s a gimmicky tournament, small indoor field, I believe only 7 players per side, no draw except for start of the game. A team with 3 strong players can make a run. A lot of kids from our area don’t make the trip because they are in winter sports and this is an out of season event. I don’t think you can even find that event on the IL website and wasnt really promoted, it’s basically another money grab, $1,700 per team, I think they’ve had 3 different sponsors in the 3 years of its existence.
Completely agree...that tournament, while fun, is as you describe it.
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Dr. Tact
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by Dr. Tact »

crusader wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:48 am The indoor game is a separate creature. No real defense so it is a game for 1v1 dodging. Shooting space rarely called as well it is go to goal.Some of my best players were actually not great indoors and vice versa.
^^^^This.....

Another thing I noticed when my D played. The typical powerhouses that are built on their 12 being better (by mean or average) then your 12 are hamstrung. You reduce it to, as 8 meter said, the best 3 v 3. IMO for that tournament, the most important player on the field is the Goalie - both in stealing a game with tight saves and in the clear/fast break game.
LaxGuy17
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by LaxGuy17 »

laxinforlife wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:47 pm Parity is coming and will come. Today, at the IL Women’s Indoor Lacrosse Nationals (the top 32 high school teams are invited to play each other. It’s super fun for all the girls to play to win.
A teaxm from Florida took out McDonough & Eastport Manor to WIn the whole tournament!! Definitely is a good example of parity coming.
Interesting and while I don’t generally put a ton of stock into these types of tournaments, there is no question geographies are expanding slowly. Look at not just rosters, but starters on a bunch of Top 20 Teams and kids are coming from the west coast, Texas, Georgia, Florida, Illinois, Michigan...not to mention Canada. Not all of those kids want to go to Md and UNC. Parity will come, just not this year!
DMac
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by DMac »

Yup, just as it has on the men's side. Not only starters on top 20 teams but AAs who have come from previously "unheard of" places/states. Given the "new" game, I have little doubt that wlax will attract more and more quality players who would have been turned off by the game played in the days of yore. Got a pretty strong feeling wlax is going to just explode, it's a really, really cool game these days.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

BTW, it's not spelled "McDonough" if you mean powerhouse McDonogh School from Baltimore County, MD.

On the indoor stuff, I can't speak as definitively about the girls/women, but certainly for the boys the indoor experience is not directly translatable to outside. Almost no defense, all run and gun, but short distances. A small roster is sufficient. Little to no actual game plan schemes versus specific opponents.

By contrast, what we see out of the McDonogh program and their ilk is deep rosters of girls running in waves, overpowering opponents with aggregate athleticism. Strong coaching.

I'd also be skeptical about who actually shows up for these off-season tourneys.

However, with regard to "parity" in individual athletes, I'd bet the same dynamic is present with the women as it is with the men. Hotbeds continue to disproportionately dominate, but more and more terrific players are emerging from all over. That's very likely to continue...assuming the costs of the club system doesn't choke off the growth of the sport.
Turtles Lax
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Cannot wait...

Post by Turtles Lax »

...truly, for a team from west of the Mississippi to win a Natty ‘Ship. Yes, TL is serious.

The game will explode in an even bigger way then!

Peace, out.

TL

PS: TL does know Denver men’s team did win one.

TL
casuallaxfan
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by casuallaxfan »

[/quote]

12 scholarships and caps on the number of travelers teams can carry will naturally spread the wealth over time. BC, SB and JMU emergence are no accident!
[/quote]

I do believe we will have slightly more parity than we have had in the past, and I agree that BC, SB, and JMU are no accident but those 3 and, as mentioned Denver with the Men, grew for very different reasons.

-SB women & Denver Men because of elite coaches. Both were good before but great with the coaches they have. SB (and Towson i would throw in there) are less expensive state school alternatives in ultra hot bed areas.

-BC because it is an elite school, in an elite (especially for women's lax) conference with a D1A football money and facilities and an admin who seems to pay more than lip service to women's lacrosse.

-JMU didn't emerge. They have been a top 15 team for a long time with national team players. They have also been a very popular school among high schoolers in the mid-atlantic and are close to the Baltimore/Washington/No. Va hotbeds. I was surprised they won it all but JMU wasn't a new name in college lax.

Personally i believe the growth will continue to come in D1A football schools that have the money to throw at the sport (See Florida and Michigan and USC and Colorado and Oregon). The money & facilities and resources can't be matched by even lax-centric non football schools.

If any SEC east school joins FLA and Vandy and gets lax i can see them being top 10 in no time (Georgia, South Carolina, Tenn.). If the Big 12 goes all on lax, Texas can be a top 10 team also.
LaxGuy17
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by LaxGuy17 »

Casuallaxfan...all good points, particularly the strong coaching, but each of those 3 Programs also had one other thing in common...a dominant single recruiting class of kids who were talented but overlooked by the Traditional programs. I think it’s also the breadth of talent despite a large number of highly ranked players going to top 2/3 schools that has created the parity. Coaching will always make a difference, but you still have to have the horses. JMU had an incredible senior class two years ago. Same with VaTech, Louisville a few years ago, Ohio State, Penn State, Colorado, etc. What we are seeing is it’s hard to sustain without top coaching and high level recruiting. Let’s see what teams like UM and Princeton do this year.
njbill
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by njbill »

I'm a little late to the party on this, but a few comments on the Inside Lacrosse HS indoor tourney. This was the fourth year for this event. Previous winners, in chronological order, were McDonogh, Mt. Sinai, and Eastport South Manor.

I attended part of one day for this event last year and enjoyed it. Spectating was less than ideal for the games in the dome, but was great on the two indoor fields. I had been thinking of going again this year and had been watching the website. As of some time last Friday, they still didn't have a list of teams or schedules. I figured the event had gotten cancelled. Glad it wasn't but wish the organizers had been more attentive to the website. At least they have now filled in the teams and scores. Last year they had rosters (with numbers) on-line, which was great.

I assume the tourney was run pretty much as it has been in the past (though they added a shot clock this year). They invite the teams from the final top 25 IL high school rankings from the previous year. In past years the majority of those teams have accepted invitations. Last year 15 of 25 attended. The organizers invite other teams to fill out the field. Usually the extra teams are pretty good. The seedings always seem wacky.

From eyeballing the teams that participated this year, it looks like a very good group. Yes, a number of top teams didn't attend, but given the logistics, time of year, and cost, I think they got an excellent turnout.

I am surprised, but not shocked that the American Heritage team won. From the somewhat limited number of teams I saw at this event last year, to my eyes AH looked the strongest, and I think that was without the best player in the country this year, Caitlyn Wurzburger (originally committed to Syracuse, now committed to UNC). I have twice tried to see her live, including at this event last year, but struck out both times. I did watch her on TV in the U-19 games last summer. She was a rising HS senior playing against rising college frosh, sophs, and juniors. Wow and double wow. She more than held her own, and was one of the best players on the U.S. team. Any team with her playing is going to be formidable so it's not a shocker to me that her team won the tournament this year.

This is the first year any teams from Jersey attended. Two of last year's Jersey final four participated, Oak Knoll and Ridgewood. TOC champ Oak Knoll went undefeated in bracket play and lost to Eastport South Manor in the semis of the playoffs. Way to represent, Jersey. :)

I agree with the above comments about indoor lacrosse and the format of this tourney. It is a lot different from the 12 v. 12 sport played in the spring. Still it's a chance to watch at least some version of the top high school teams play one another, something that doesn't get to happen all that much in the spring. And it gives you a chance to get a look at some of the top players you might not otherwise see.

BTW, the posts on this tourney in years past (including LaxPower) have been on the girls forum which unfortunately seems to be moribund these days. Better here on the women's board than not at all, I guess.
laxinforlife
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by laxinforlife »

External Image
Run-n-Gun Brings ILWomen National Indoor Championship Title to Florida
(Inside Lacrosse Photos: Jaclyn Borowski) In a tournament of high-scoring and fast-paced games indoors, the final one brought the
insidelacrosse.com
Here’s the IL article about the tournament if any are interested. Caitlyn Wurzburger is the real deal. She’s the hardest working kid I’ve ever met. She’s kind, humble, a great student and an excellent leader. Her parents are really wonderful people as well. It’s going to be fun to watch her play at UNC.
laxinforlife
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by laxinforlife »

I don’t think that the link will work. Here’s the article:
In a tournament of high-scoring and fast-paced games indoors, the final one brought the intensity of the ILWomen Indoor National Championship to a nail-biting finish. Run-n-Gun, comprising players from American Heritage-Delray (Fla.), edged out the Sharks, made up of players from Eastport-South Manor (N.Y.), 13-12.

“The first time for a Florida team to win it all is pretty special,” said Rob Wurzburger, one of the coaches of the championship team. “All the teams here are awesome. There are no easy wins. It was seven tough games.”

Run-n-Gun faced a brutal slate of games en route to the title, beating Orange Crush (comprising players from McDonogh, Md.) by a goal in the semifinals, and the Mustangs (players from Mount Sinai, N.Y.) in the quarterfinals before topping the reigning champs.

Run-n-Gun’s Liz Harrison (Florida, 2020) scored five goals, including the final two. Goalie Chloe Provenzano (Harvard, 2020) played lights-out, and IL’s No. 1 senior Caitlyn Wurzburger, (North Carolina) was a consistent offensive force against the toughest defense in the tournament.

The event, featuring the best high schools in the country at Spooky Nook Indoor Sports Complex, plays with seven field players and one goalie. The goalies restarted play after each goal, and the teams played with a 60-second shot clock in the high school division. The full results can be found here.

“Love the shot clock. It speeds up the game. It allows a better flow of the game. What I was most impressed with was the refs resetting the shot clock and watching the shot clock — there’s a lot to watch out there,” said Rob Wurzburger.



M&D Black won the 2024 division, and the Yellowjackets won the 2025s.





Tough defense led the way in the high school final.

It took five minutes for the first score, as the Sharks' Celeste Forte (Florida, 2021) weaved through traffic and broke the ice. The teams traded barbs in the half, as Run-n-Gun responded with Kylie Hazen’s (Georgetown, 2020) first goal, assisted from Wurzburger.

Ellie Masera (Stony Brook, 2020) controlled the pace offensively for the Sharks, scoring three of her five goals in the first half of a hard-nosed, complete performance. Sharks’ goalie Katie Vahle (Arizona State, 2021), along with Run-n-Gun’s Provenzano, each made spectacular saves despite constant scoring chances as a result of the shot clock.

The Sharks’ Alexandra Giacolone (East Carolina, 2020) shined with the toughest assignment of the day, guarding the No. 1 recruit Wurzburger. Teams threw a variety of shut-offs at her in the playoff round, but Giacolone was effective in a physical, tough battle between the two.

Tied 5-5 at the half, Run-n-Gun took a two-goal lead, but each team had their runs. Hazen scored back-to-back —playing off a pick from behind, the in transition— to extend to 11-8. But the Sharks had one last comeback, with Forte scoring on a free-position opportunity and Vahle making a spectacular save on the doorstep. A Run-n-Gun penalty led to Katie McCormick’s (Towson, 2021) score to make it a one-goal game.

But Harrison’s spinning score extended the lead again — and a leaping score minutes later was the response needed to another Sharks’ score and the championship.

“The kids bring it. It’s all about the kids. They rise to the occasion for big games,” said Rob Wurzburger. “That’s why they’re in these big games and quite honestly why the teams that are invited to this event are here because these kids are super competitors.”
wlaxnut
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by wlaxnut »

Are we seeing the beginnings of parity in division one? It has been affirmed by a couple members on these boards that Maryland is not the same Maryland this year. However, that does not diminish what Florida did. UMass knocking off Boston College. Same thing – a few of us have affirmed that BC is greatly diminished this year. Nevertheless it doesn’t make what UMass did any less impressive. I am sure we will see more “upsets” as the season progresses, but the real test will come in The Tournament. (I put upsets in quotations because ultimately, I don’t think they were upsets on the field, only on paper.)
LaxGuy17
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by LaxGuy17 »

wlaxnut wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:58 am Are we seeing the beginnings of parity in division one? It has been affirmed by a couple members on these boards that Maryland is not the same Maryland this year. However, that does not diminish what Florida did. UMass knocking off Boston College. Same thing – a few of us have affirmed that BC is greatly diminished this year. Nevertheless it doesn’t make what UMass did any less impressive. I am sure we will see more “upsets” as the season progresses, but the real test will come in The Tournament. (I put upsets in quotations because ultimately, I don’t think they were upsets on the field, only on paper.)
I agree with you that we are seeing “the beginnings” of more parity. The parity we will see in the Tourney though I think is in the Top 5 and then below the top five. I say that because I am not sure that anyone will go undefeated this year (although Stony Brook has a shot with its schedule). Cuse, UNC, NU and ND could all knock each other off. Yes I excluded MD this time on purpose for reasons you suggested above. After that, I don’t know I see the depth of high end Talent to compete with the Top 5 above. That said, anybody not listed above could beat anybody else on a given day, with injuries, etc.
wlaxnut
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by wlaxnut »

Good case for Parity tonight. Richmond knocks off #6 Virginia on the road. 1st win against the Hoos since 2006, 1st win over ranked opponent since 2012. Rutgers gave #7 Penn a run for a while, eventually losing 11-9. Things are looking up!
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OuttaNowhereWregget
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by OuttaNowhereWregget »

Looks like the NCAA is getting closer to parity. Four different national champions in the last five finals. Two first time champs in the last three. The days of Northwestern dominance are long gone, and Maryland is trending that way as well. Some new teams made some noise last season like Rutgers, Drexel et al. Some made The Tournament for the first time ever, some for the first time in a long time. We saw a lot of teams pull upsets. In that respect, it was a great regular season. I hope the trend continues in '22.

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Maryland75
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Re: Women’s Lacrosse Needs Parity

Post by Maryland75 »

I think parity is good for the sport and it is slowly happening however Maryland, Northwestern, UNC, BC, Duke etc will always be in the mix.
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