Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

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wlaxnut
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Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

Post by wlaxnut »

I'm intrigued by recruiting. How does it work?

I remember watching a great documentary on the AFL (I highly recommend catching this excellent 5 part series on YouTube) -- https://youtu.be/_7OA6koTK_E?t=1017 -- where a couple of guys from the Pittsburgh Steelers organization come to recruit a highly touted prospect for their team. They showed up at the players home early one morning drunk, and with a presumptuous pitch told the player they were drafting him. After the "interview" the young man was confronted by his church minister father who quietly told him that he would not be going to Pittsburgh. And that's how he ended up going instead to the AFL Dallas Texans.

All that to ask--what's it like for women's collegiate lacrosse? Does the coach herself/himself ever come to the home to speak with the player/players parents? Are the parents or the player contacted first? Are there politics involved or does the players merit alone determine where they end up playing?
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Dr. Tact
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Re: Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

Post by Dr. Tact »

wlaxnut wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:05 am I'm intrigued by recruiting. How does it work?

I remember watching a great documentary on the AFL (I highly recommend catching this excellent 5 part series on YouTube) -- https://youtu.be/_7OA6koTK_E?t=1017 -- where a couple of guys from the Pittsburgh Steelers organization come to recruit a highly touted prospect for their team. They showed up at the players home early one morning drunk, and with a presumptuous pitch told the player they were drafting him. After the "interview" the young man was confronted by his church minister father who quietly told him that he would not be going to Pittsburgh. And that's how he ended up going instead to the AFL Dallas Texans.

All that to ask--what's it like for women's collegiate lacrosse? Does the coach herself/himself ever come to the home to speak with the player/players parents? Are the parents or the player contacted first? Are there politics involved or does the players merit alone determine where they end up playing?
I cant speak in absolutes and the rules have changed recently. With my 2 Ds we have seen the early recruiting (2017 grad year) to the new rules (2021 Grad year). So this is just my experience as Dad confidante, Uber service, cheerleader, film taker/editor, well you get the idea that in our household it is a family affair.

With the oldest, it was about setting goals and targets for both academics and Lax. Then we took her to camps that had the most possibility of a good return and best fit the academics and lax goals. This started Freshman year. We went to several single university camps that she liked, then a few combine camps (Triple Threat and MAx Exposure), then later invite "prospect day" camps. These were typically where the discussion began with the athlete on interest in both directions. While all of this is happening, Club and High school coaches were getting emails and phone calls as the initial contact had to go through coaches. The athlete was then allowed to call the coach to discuss interest/program/etc. We did not have any coach come to her school or our house. They preferred to have the comfort of their conference room surrounded with all the trophies/bling etc...that was our experience, others' may be different. She committed Fall of Sophomore year.

With the youngest, we still set goals, but it is different in that there can be no D1 contact with the athlete until Fall of Junior year. The behind the scenes stuff (phone calls, emails, etc. ) still go to the Club coach, but there are no phone calls with the athlete. D1 Coaches can talk to athletes on campus, but to my knowledge it cant be anything specific to recruiting, but focused on whatever they are coaching in the clinic. D3 have different rules and can contact the athlete at any time. So now it is a bit harder on the potential D1 athlete. The wait is both beneficial (older, better decisions) and negative (they have to wait until Sept of Junior year and get hit with a flurry of offers/interest). So it can be stressful if D1 is what the athlete is hoping for.

RE: your additional questions. Everything in Girls/Womens Lax is political. From who you know, which club you are on, which private school you go to (or dont), etc. Club coaches hold a large card in the recruiting process. Some actively market, some are more passive. Some clubs are known for blue chips and thus get more attention. Some clubs are not as well known as the favorites, so the job is much harder, but if the athlete is good enough, the coaches will come..Its just a harder road.

Just my experience, probably more than you wanted with your OP, and too much information on my experiences...Sorry, I sometimes go long...
wlaxnut
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Re: Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

Post by wlaxnut »

Dr. Tact wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:37 am
wlaxnut wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:05 am I'm intrigued by recruiting. How does it work?

I remember watching a great documentary on the AFL (I highly recommend catching this excellent 5 part series on YouTube) -- https://youtu.be/_7OA6koTK_E?t=1017 -- where a couple of guys from the Pittsburgh Steelers organization come to recruit a highly touted prospect for their team. They showed up at the players home early one morning drunk, and with a presumptuous pitch told the player they were drafting him. After the "interview" the young man was confronted by his church minister father who quietly told him that he would not be going to Pittsburgh. And that's how he ended up going instead to the AFL Dallas Texans.

All that to ask--what's it like for women's collegiate lacrosse? Does the coach herself/himself ever come to the home to speak with the player/players parents? Are the parents or the player contacted first? Are there politics involved or does the players merit alone determine where they end up playing?
I cant speak in absolutes and the rules have changed recently. With my 2 Ds we have seen the early recruiting (2017 grad year) to the new rules (2021 Grad year). So this is just my experience as Dad confidante, Uber service, cheerleader, film taker/editor, well you get the idea that in our household it is a family affair.

With the oldest, it was about setting goals and targets for both academics and Lax. Then we took her to camps that had the most possibility of a good return and best fit the academics and lax goals. This started Freshman year. We went to several single university camps that she liked, then a few combine camps (Triple Threat and MAx Exposure), then later invite "prospect day" camps. These were typically where the discussion began with the athlete on interest in both directions. While all of this is happening, Club and High school coaches were getting emails and phone calls as the initial contact had to go through coaches. The athlete was then allowed to call the coach to discuss interest/program/etc. We did not have any coach come to her school or our house. They preferred to have the comfort of their conference room surrounded with all the trophies/bling etc...that was our experience, others' may be different. She committed Fall of Sophomore year.

With the youngest, we still set goals, but it is different in that there can be no D1 contact with the athlete until Fall of Junior year. The behind the scenes stuff (phone calls, emails, etc. ) still go to the Club coach, but there are no phone calls with the athlete. D1 Coaches can talk to athletes on campus, but to my knowledge it cant be anything specific to recruiting, but focused on whatever they are coaching in the clinic. D3 have different rules and can contact the athlete at any time. So now it is a bit harder on the potential D1 athlete. The wait is both beneficial (older, better decisions) and negative (they have to wait until Sept of Junior year and get hit with a flurry of offers/interest). So it can be stressful if D1 is what the athlete is hoping for.

RE: your additional questions. Everything in Girls/Womens Lax is political. From who you know, which club you are on, which private school you go to (or dont), etc. Club coaches hold a large card in the recruiting process. Some actively market, some are more passive. Some clubs are known for blue chips and thus get more attention. Some clubs are not as well known as the favorites, so the job is much harder, but if the athlete is good enough, the coaches will come..Its just a harder road.

Just my experience, probably more than you wanted with your OP, and too much information on my experiences...Sorry, I sometimes go long...
No apology necessary. On the contrary, full multi-aspect responses are a bonus. They fit the bill and are exactly what I am hoping for in this thread. Any length responses are welcome as well. Thank you!
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Dr. Tact
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Re: Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

Post by Dr. Tact »

wlaxnut wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:46 am
No apology necessary. On the contrary, full multi-aspect responses are a bonus. They fit the bill and are exactly what I am hoping for in this thread. Any length responses are welcome as well. Thank you!
Oh and I forgot more of the politics....These opportunities do get a player recognized and can definitely help in recruiting, but at least in our area are highly political. School Girl's/National Tournament games (Team #1 or 2), Under Armour Underclass and Senior All-America games, Local paper All-Met, All-State/All-League selections, Inside Lacrosse mentions, and US Lax All-American.
Bart
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Re: Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

Post by Bart »

Dr. Tact wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:52 am
wlaxnut wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:46 am
No apology necessary. On the contrary, full multi-aspect responses are a bonus. They fit the bill and are exactly what I am hoping for in this thread. Any length responses are welcome as well. Thank you!
Oh and I forgot more of the politics....These opportunities do get a player recognized and can definitely help in recruiting, but at least in our area are highly political. School Girl's/National Tournament games (Team #1 or 2), Under Armour Underclass and Senior All-America games, Local paper All-Met, All-State/All-League selections, Inside Lacrosse mentions, and US Lax All-American.
Politics...... Just like any other youth sport. At times it is not how you play but for whom you play. Agree with the good Dr, some clubs are more aggressive than others, even in my smaller geographical area.
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Dr. Tact
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Re: Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

Post by Dr. Tact »

Bart wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:08 am
Dr. Tact wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:52 am
wlaxnut wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:46 am
No apology necessary. On the contrary, full multi-aspect responses are a bonus. They fit the bill and are exactly what I am hoping for in this thread. Any length responses are welcome as well. Thank you!
Oh and I forgot more of the politics....These opportunities do get a player recognized and can definitely help in recruiting, but at least in our area are highly political. School Girl's/National Tournament games (Team #1 or 2), Under Armour Underclass and Senior All-America games, Local paper All-Met, All-State/All-League selections, Inside Lacrosse mentions, and US Lax All-American.
Politics...... Just like any other youth sport. At times it is not how you play but for whom you play. Agree with the good Dr, some clubs are more aggressive than others, even in my smaller geographical area.
Absolutely. The median or lower player on YJ, Capital, Lady Roc, Skywalker, M&D, etc.....may not be better than the blue chipper on some small club, but they get more looks and play better competition (which is important to coaches). They often get recruited based on their club and their teammates. Often spending 4 years on the bench in college.

There is a rumor in my area that a certain private school Coach can call a school and recommend one of his/her players and it often leads to an immediate offer sight unseen. That may be hyperbole and not be accurate, but that is a rumor which illustrates how small the community really is at the highest levels.

Another weird example is one I witnessed. D went to a Ivy school camp and got an offer. Then the next week she got an offer from a competing Ivy who to the best of my knowledge had never seen her play. I honestly think it was because school A offered her. Very small, political community.
Shellax
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Re: Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

Post by Shellax »

Dr. Tact
What were the Ivys able to offer?
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Re: Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

Post by Dr. Tact »

Shellax wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:30 am Dr. Tact
What were the Ivys able to offer?
Offer of position on the Lacrosse team and their advocacy to the Board of Admissions as long as her SAT and grades were within an acceptable range. No money at all.
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Dr. Tact
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Re: Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

Post by Dr. Tact »

One other thing that has become too prevalent - Camps....I think there must be at least 2 to 3 times the number of camps that get emailed to my youngest than the oldest got. I don't know if this is tied to the loss of early recruiting which allowed top programs to lock up classes early and not need as many camps, or if it is greed. Maybe both...as a hopeful recruit, you now get the opportunity to go to 1 or 2 more years of camps before committing. $$$
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Re: Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

Post by cltlax »

Dr. Tact wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:51 am One other thing that has become too prevalent - Camps....I think there must be at least 2 to 3 times the number of camps that get emailed to my youngest than the oldest got. I don't know if this is tied to the loss of early recruiting which allowed top programs to lock up classes early and not need as many camps, or if it is greed. Maybe both...as a hopeful recruit, you now get the opportunity to go to 1 or 2 more years of camps before committing. $$$
I have a 2021 and we are in a non-hotbed area in the South. Definitely seems like club name recognition goes a long way, as the Yellow Jackets, M&D, Skywalkers of the world have a decided advantage. The wait until 9/1 is agonizing - doing a lot of work without much feedback.

One other frustrating thing with the camps is that they all seem to have been shortened to 3 days/2 nights (really 1 full day and 2 half days) and the price stayed the same.
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Dr. Tact
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Re: Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

Post by Dr. Tact »

cltlax wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:20 am I have a 2021 and we are in a non-hotbed area in the South. Definitely seems like club name recognition goes a long way, as the Yellow Jackets, M&D, Skywalkers of the world have a decided advantage. The wait until 9/1 is agonizing - doing a lot of work without much feedback.

One other frustrating thing with the camps is that they all seem to have been shortened to 3 days/2 nights (really 1 full day and 2 half days) and the price stayed the same.
Yes. I completely agree. Oldest's College coach told her she never would have seen her if she didn't attend her camp because her club team was unknown and in the second tier. My girls play(ed) on a small club team in the shadow of the M&D, Skywalkers and Capital. Its hard to get the attention that those clubs get. Makes the emails on schedules, Club coach calls and specific camps that much more important.

You should be able to get some feedback from your club coach. My understanding is that the school can contact the club coach with a vanilla email that states interest in a player (not sure if the communication to the player by club coach is "legal" but hard to enforce). They cannot officially give anyone (inc club coaches) a sense of where that player slots on their list. But, if there is communicated interest in a '21, that is a pretty good sign.

The biggest issue I see with the late recruiting period is the flutter of activity on 9/1. One of my oldest's coaches says that they expect to be up early with the emails, texts and calls. In fact she said there were some schools that will be reaching out at 12:01 am :o . This will lead to a frenzy like in football where players (PSA) will have multiple offers with urgency. I wouldnt be surprised if top programs would give the PSA a quick deadline on decisions to get their classes set. That 9/1 flurry will cause a number of things to happen shortly that took months/year in the old system. Just my opinion, but I hope that yours and mine (21's) get enough interest that there is a comfort level that there is a potential home.

My issue with camps is not really the single university ones nor the established combines that have been around for a while (Triple Threat/Max Exposure/etc.). My issue is that there are all of these "Showcase" one day camps that we get emailed constantly. I mean, I got three this morning alone on our family email. They ranged from $150 to $450 for a one day camp, with a mixed bag of D1/D2/D3, and of course, they are hundreds of miles away, starting at 7-9 am.....Not happening in the Tact household.

Good luck with the next few months.
Last edited by Dr. Tact on Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
wlaxnut
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How about from a Coach’s/Team’s Perspective?

Post by wlaxnut »

How does someone like Hannah Nielsen recruit to frigid Ann Arbor, Michigan when she has schools like Maryland and UNC vying for the same elite players?
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Dr. Tact
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Re: How about from a Coach’s/Team’s Perspective?

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wlaxnut wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:28 pm How does someone like Hannah Nielsen recruit to frigid Ann Arbor, Michigan when she has schools like Maryland and UNC vying for the same elite players?
She might compete with UNC, but most of the MD players are home grown and have wanted to go there for years. She may be getting girls that are just under the MD class.

Some kids want to go away from the hotbeds and to a big school....maybe?
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Re: Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

Post by Badlands »

You know how many kids would kill to get into U of M? And how many Hollywood-type parents would pay $500K to cheat their kids into a school like that?

Oh, and they also have killer indoor practice facilities, so not really so frigid.
wlaxnut
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Re: Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

Post by wlaxnut »

Badlands wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:57 pm You know how many kids would kill to get into U of M? And how many Hollywood-type parents would pay $500K to cheat their kids into a school like that?

Oh, and they also have killer indoor practice facilities, so not really so frigid.
Hysterical! "...would pay $500K to cheat..."

Right--those indoor facilities are becoming the norm. Good point. Then that eliminates the weather as a deterrent.
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Dr. Tact
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Re: Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

Post by Dr. Tact »

Badlands wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:57 pm You know how many kids would kill to get into U of M?
Exactly
iloovzelax
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Re: Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

Post by iloovzelax »

Just to add a little more color as the parent of a 2021 Daughter as well. Our efforts have been focused on getting some indirect feedback over the last year or two (through the club coach) to get a decent sense of what level of lacrosse program makes sense first. For example - D1 Top 20, D1 Top 50, lower D1, D3 etc.

From there continuing to focus the target list based on D's interest in type of school, level of academics (with some Admissions support for lacrosse).

Then - pick the top 5 or 6 and get to their school camps a couple times if possible (while continuing to email about 15-20 on the target list). Continue to be seen at all the summer showcases and hit the other mentioned spots as well (e.g. UA).

Then fast forward to September 1st. Guess is that it will move a little slower than last year. Many top schools / top girls from top clubs will go quickly. Our daughters will likely have some surprises on 9/1, hearing from schools they didn't know were interested and not hearing from some high on the list.

My understanding last year was that in many cases girls didn't receive offers on 9/1, but rather invitations to come visit (some give officials, other prefer to save officials for senior year) for a weekend, hang with the team, etc. If all goes well, offer at the end of the weekend.

Beyond this, I think there will still be a lot of "come to our camp and let us see you play" activity going on in the fall, as well as recruiting happening through the November showcases, for certainly the mid-level and lower level D1 programs.
cltlax
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Re: Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

Post by cltlax »

Dr. Tact wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:43 am
Yes. I completely agree. Oldest's College coach told her she never would have seen her if she didn't attend her camp because her club team was unknown and in the second tier. My girls play(ed) on a small club team in the shadow of the M&D, Skywalkers and Capital. Its hard to get the attention that those clubs get. Makes the emails on schedules, Club coach calls and specific camps that much more important.

You should be able to get some feedback from your club coach. My understanding is that the school can contact the club coach with a vanilla email that states interest in a player (not sure if the communication to the player by club coach is "legal" but hard to enforce). They cannot officially give anyone (inc club coaches) a sense of where that player slots on their list. But, if there is communicated interest in a '21, that is a pretty good sign.

The biggest issue I see with the late recruiting period is the flutter of activity on 9/1. One of my oldest's coaches says that they expect to be up early with the emails, texts and calls. In fact she said there were some schools that will be reaching out at 12:01 am :o . This will lead to a frenzy like in football where players (PSA) will have multiple offers with urgency. I wouldnt be surprised if top programs would give the PSA a quick deadline on decisions to get their classes set. That 9/1 flurry will cause a number of things to happen shortly that took months/year in the old system. Just my opinion, but I hope that yours and mine (21's) get enough interest that there is a comfort level that there is a potential home.

My issue with camps is not really the single university ones nor the established combines that have been around for a while (Triple Threat/Max Exposure/etc.). My issue is that there are all of these "Showcase" one day camps that we get emailed constantly. I mean, I got three this morning alone on our family email. They ranged from $150 to $450 for a one day camp, with a mixed bag of D1/D2/D3, and of course, they are hundreds of miles away, starting at 7-9 am.....Not happening in the Tact household.

Good luck with the next 14 months.
Thanks Tact. In a similar boat. Doing Under Armour 150 next week to get some more exposure and have 2 more showcases this summer. Sometimes it feels like we're throwing money down a hole going to school specific camps without knowing if there is real interest. Hoping your daughter (and mine) get some good vibes in September and have some choices they're excited about.
laxinforlife
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Re: Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

Post by laxinforlife »

My daughter is a 20. She experienced the early recruiting and September 1, 2018. She had 4 offers freshman year and was taking her time and the rule changed. The rule change is a good thing but they need to amend the communication aspect of it.
Her experience on September 1st was several emails and texts at midnight and throughout the night. A coach came in person on September 1st and another came in person a few days later. She talked to 20 coaches or so September 1. Got one offer on September 1st from the face to face visit. Got an offer on the phone as a freshman. The other offers were made during the coaches meeting with her on the officials. Took 4 of 5 officials within 3 weeks of sept. 1 and fell in love with a school that wasn’t even on her radar. She is thrilled with her commitment and we’re glad she did not commit as a freshman.
laxinforlife
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Re: Recruiting--Thoughts, Impressions, Questions and Answers

Post by laxinforlife »

We did throw money down the hole for camps. One school sent several hand written camp invites. Shelled out $$$ to go to two camps at that school and crickets from them on sept 1.
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