Can anyone explain the rule that applies here?

D1 Womens Lacrosse
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wlaxnut
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:00 am

Can anyone explain the rule that applies here?

Post by wlaxnut »

https://youtu.be/8OPqCUUF08I

The clip from Friday's game at Hofstra vs Towson depicts a very common occurrence in women's collegiate lacrosse these days. I am always mystified when I see it.

Firstly, it puzzles me that the Hofstra player who got fouled here ends up being penalized, in a sense, for being fouled. She has to go back, losing her momentum, her progress and her position. Yet the Towson player who committed the foul stays where she is and is now in an improved position between the attacking player and the goal. That makes no sense. Why does the player who gets fouled have to go back when the player who commits the foul maintains their now improved position?

Secondly, this seems like a play where self-start would apply, though admittedly, I don't know the specifics of the rule. It seems like self-start was more common right after the NCAA instituted the rule change. I don't see it as much anymore. Has it changed? Maybe it's just my perception.
seacoaster
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Re: Can anyone explain the rule that applies here?

Post by seacoaster »

Yes, if there is an official in the house that would be a nice explanation.

If you stop the video at around 13 or 14 seconds in, you'll see that the Hofstra player has effectively beaten three Towson players...but for the fact that she has to stop, go back 15 yards while the Towson folks get ready and in position. Smart foul? Yup. And as long as it punishes the offense and enables rest, repositioning and organization for the defense, we should see it multiple times every game.
wlaxnut
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Re: Can anyone explain the rule that applies here?

Post by wlaxnut »

seacoaster wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:02 am ...the Hofstra player has effectively beaten three Towson players...but for the fact that she has to stop, go back 15 yards while the Towson folks get ready and in position. Smart foul? Yup. And as long as it punishes the offense and enables rest, repositioning and organization for the defense, we should see it multiple times every game.
Well put.
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BigRedMachine
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Re: Can anyone explain the rule that applies here?

Post by BigRedMachine »

I've ranted about this ever since free movement was born. In essence the player fouling is rewarded by stopping a fast break. Everybody gets to advance except the fouled player. Some refs will allow a play on and others blow the whistle and I'm not sure what causes the difference (maybe some referees frequenting these boards can explain). But, in general, a team should not be rewarded for fouling, it only encourages more of the same. Some type of penalty must be instituted. Maybe fouling out after a certain number have been committed as in basketball and/or awarding free position shots once a limit has been met.
wlaxnut
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Re: Can anyone explain the rule that applies here?

Post by wlaxnut »

BigRedMachine wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:16 pm I've ranted about this ever since free movement was born. In essence the player fouling is rewarded by stopping a fast break. Everybody gets to advance except the fouled player. Some refs will allow a play on and others blow the whistle and I'm not sure what causes the difference (maybe some referees frequenting these boards can explain). But, in general, a team should not be rewarded for fouling, it only encourages more of the same. Some type of penalty must be instituted. Maybe fouling out after a certain number have been committed as in basketball and/or awarding free position shots once a limit has been met.
This makes good common sense. Mr. Chairman? I move that we forward this to the NCAA Rules Committee post haste. All in favor?
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holmes435
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Re: Can anyone explain the rule that applies here?

Post by holmes435 »

The player was fouled around 0:02 of the video. You can see a defender stop playing at 0:03, and a second defender stops playing almost immediately after. The remaining Towson defender stops playing around 0:04. The Hostra player kept running to the ~30 yard line at around 0:06 because that's what we train them to do. She kept running a full two to three seconds after the whistle because she wanted to or didn't hear the whistle. One of the reasons we bring her back is because the defense stopped playing and she didn't. There's no penalty for running that far after the whistle unless it's done over and over again in an obvious manner.

One of the the actual issues I have with the ref was that they didn't send Towson's #5 (the fouler from what I can see) behind the fouled player.

And self-start would have happened nearly immediately if the player didn't run an extra 3+ seconds after the whistle.

I do agree with a few other posters with something I've posted about for a long time - this should be changed, and we should either have a held flag that either results in a foul count like in basketball or a shot clock reset if the ball isn't lost by the player. In the end it should result in a bonus to the offense similar to a flag down situation on the men's side as much as we don't want to pick up their rules.
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