WLax Broadcasts and Publications: Comments/Reviews

D1 Womens Lacrosse
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wlaxnut
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WLax Broadcasts and Publications: Comments/Reviews

Post by wlaxnut »

I thought it might be interesting to have a place to make comments, critiques and observations on women's lacrosse games that are broadcast on TV or online. A place to talk about the quality, (or lack thereof) for all aspects of broadcasts, including camerawork, field mics, play-by-play and color commentators, and anything else about a broadcast that comes to mind. It is the medium through which we enjoy the sport, so it only stands to reason that we would have impressions about how the games are being broadcast.

Just looking at it from a viewer's perspective--my intention is not to excoriate, lambast, expose or embarrass anyone. And I'm certainly not looking to make any personal attacks. BUT--if anyone else wants to weigh in with a little vitriol, I am not going to criticize you for it. This is still America and we can say what we want, (within the guidelines of Fanlax, of course) without being censored. I just think it's valuable to have a safe place to talk about these things.

Twitter is also a valuable place to send praise and/or constructive criticism to broadcasters. I tweeted a message that included both to a certain play-by-play announcer doing a woman's lacrosse game a number of weeks ago and he responded graciously.

So--that's my little preamble. I hope I have defined the purpose of this (hopefully) ongoing thread.
Last edited by wlaxnut on Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
wlaxnut
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Florida vs North Carolina - YouTube Broadcast 3/16/19

Post by wlaxnut »

I was watching the Florida vs UNC game yesterday on YouTube for a good while. I thought most of the aspects of the broadcast were pretty well done--camerawork was good, including close ups, (though there were no replays) field mics were very good. Play-by-play guy (Ryan somebody--it was hard to catch his last name) was good.

However, there was one aspect of the game production that did stand out as subpar--the color commentating by former Gator defender Annie Collins. While Ms. Collins consistently had interesting insights and observations during the call of the game, it was painful to hear her preface and intersperse so many of her remarks with, "I mean". I have heard many folks through all walks of life begin sentences with "I mean", and it's an odd cultural phenomenon. But to have to hear it over and over and over during the course of a game is irritating. It got so bad, I turned the volume down when she was talking after a while. I'm sure broadcasting school teaches hopeful play-by-play/color commentators to avoid using word crutches. I hope she can work on that because we need good commentators for this sport, and she did a great job apart from it.
Badlands
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Re: Women's Lacrosse Broadcasts: Comments and Reviews

Post by Badlands »

I think we have to keep in mind how much better off we are today than we were 5 years ago in terms of the number of wlax games that we can watch on TV or through a computer screen. The downside of that, though, is that with expanded coverage, we get more newbies trying to call the games. Many times these are undergrad journalism students who know little about lacrosse, especially wlax. I guess we just have to put up with their unfamiliarity with the game and poor production value and just be glad that the games are actually on TV (even if sometimes it's just more tolerable to turn off the volume). That said, some of these young people are quite good and have excellent potential to turn broadcasting into a career. As I've stated before, one such young talent is Zealand Shannon, who calls UVA wlax games. The kid is REALLY good.

Maybe this thread will be helpful to novice broadcasters trying to break into the field. They may want to hear feedback from their audiences. The following are my suggestions (based mainly on my pet peeves) which I offer as constructive advice. Feel free to add to my suggestions.

1) Try to learn the rules. On way too many broadcasts, the announcers just note that a foul was called without making any effort to identify what was called. I'm sure they wouldn't do that if calling a football game. Other times they assume every call is shooting space. Sometimes 3 seconds is called, and they openly question how a foul could have occurred with no contact.

2) Try to learn the terminology, and don't just adopt the terminology from a sport you know. For example, re-defending isn't "forechecking."

3) If you're a male announcer who played mlax or if you're more familiar with mlax, please don't compare wlax to mlax as if you're still trying to make sense of the women's game. That's something that someone does upon first impression. I doubt NBA fans would think much of an announcer who spends much of the broadcast comparing the NBA to the WNBA.

4) Don't shout every time the home team scores, especially on "routine" goals. Last second for the win, OK.

5) Try not to be an obvious homer, especially if you see similar plays differently depending on which end of the field they occur at.
LRoggy
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Re: Women's Lacrosse Broadcasts: Comments and Reviews

Post by LRoggy »

Badlands wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:19 am I think we have to keep in mind how much better off we are today than we were 5 years ago in terms of the number of wlax games that we can watch on TV or through a computer screen. The downside of that, though, is that with expanded coverage, we get more newbies trying to call the games. Many times these are undergrad journalism students who know little about lacrosse, especially wlax. I guess we just have to put up with their unfamiliarity with the game and poor production value and just be glad that the games are actually on TV (even if sometimes it's just more tolerable to turn off the volume). That said, some of these young people are quite good and have excellent potential to turn broadcasting into a career. As I've stated before, one such young talent is Zealand Shannon, who calls UVA wlax games. The kid is REALLY good.

Maybe this thread will be helpful to novice broadcasters trying to break into the field. They may want to hear feedback from their audiences. The following are my suggestions (based mainly on my pet peeves) which I offer as constructive advice. Feel free to add to my suggestions.

1) Try to learn the rules. On way too many broadcasts, the announcers just note that a foul was called without making any effort to identify what was called. I'm sure they wouldn't do that if calling a football game. Other times they assume every call is shooting space. Sometimes 3 seconds is called, and they openly question how a foul could have occurred with no contact.

2) Try to learn the terminology, and don't just adopt the terminology from a sport you know. For example, re-defending isn't "forechecking."

3) If you're a male announcer who played mlax or if you're more familiar with mlax, please don't compare wlax to mlax as if you're still trying to make sense of the women's game. That's something that someone does upon first impression. I doubt NBA fans would think much of an announcer who spends much of the broadcast comparing the NBA to the WNBA.

4) Don't shout every time the home team scores, especially on "routine" goals. Last second for the win, OK.

5) Try not to be an obvious homer, especially if you see similar plays differently depending on which end of the field they occur at.
All great points. I've done some color commentating on broadcasts and another thing to add is make sure you go over the roster with the coaches before the game to make sure of the pronunciation of the names. Plenty of parents and friends watching the broadcast and they are hoping their kid gets a mention, and getting the name right is a big deal to them.

Spend some time on the uniform numbers . . . it's hard to talk while also looking at the roster to see what the number/name is.

This sport in general, needs it's own Dick Vitale, someone who LOVES the sport and it comes through on the broadcast. We have not yet gotten the attention of the casual sports fan and we have to keep working on that.
wlaxnut
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Things I look for in a broadcast

Post by wlaxnut »

Things that matter on a broadcast:

- Camerawork: This is one criteria that is critical. If the camerawork is poor, forget it. I can't watch a game like that. Camera shots too close or "tight" where the camera moves each time the ball is passed. That kind of camerawork is irritating and gives me a headache. It also makes it difficult to follow play as you are rarely able to watch all the players in a wider view to be able to see formations, passing patterns, designed plays, etc. Another way the camerawork can be too poor to watch is if the shot is too far away or “wide” which means it seems like you have an up-in-the-cheap-seats view where you can barely make out anything of detail.

- Instant replays: Are they offered. Is replay good quality and are there multiple angles.

- Play-by-play announcer - Do they know the sport, can they read the gestures of the officials on penalties and relate the call to the viewer. Proper pronunciation of the players names.

- Color commentator: Sheehan Stanwick-Burch is everything a commentator should be--well informed, former player, lending insight into what it's like to be a player and able to share compelling bits of personal history. Consistently recognizes and conveys penalties in such a way as to make it plain to the viewer--new or long time. She has a sense of humor and can be funny. The only slight disappointment I have is her tendency to avoid second guessing the game refs. That’s my SSB way of saying what I look for in an analyst.

- Banner: Does it include a shot clock field. A player advantage power play window.

- Field mics: Can you hear the players and coaches shouting instructions/encouragements. Can you hear the crowd and the officials whistles.
wlaxnut
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Re: Women's Lacrosse Broadcasts: Comments and Reviews

Post by wlaxnut »

Badlands wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:19 am I think we have to keep in mind how much better off we are today than we were 5 years ago in terms of the number of wlax games that we can watch on TV or through a computer screen.

Absolutely. I have noticed an explosion of wlax games available to watch online just since last year. More and more teams stream their own games and have their own announcers. Some of these "home grown" broadcasts are pretty good--like last week I watched the Florida at High Point game. High Point did a pretty professional job on the production.

The downside of that, though, is that with expanded coverage, we get more newbies trying to call the games. Many times these are undergrad journalism students who know little about lacrosse, especially wlax. I guess we just have to put up with their unfamiliarity with the game and poor production value and just be glad that the games are actually on TV (even if sometimes it's just more tolerable to turn off the volume).

I think it's better to give feedback. That way the production crew can analyze the critiques/compliments and try to improve for the next game. If we just put up with poor quality, they won't get the feedback they need to improve.

That said, some of these young people are quite good and have excellent potential to turn broadcasting into a career. As I've stated before, one such young talent is Zealand Shannon, who calls UVA wlax games. The kid is REALLY good.

I agree--Zealand is a cut above. He does a very professional job and he seems well-read, intelligent, and he doesn't take himself too seriously.

Maybe this thread will be helpful to novice broadcasters trying to break into the field. They may want to hear feedback from their audiences. The following are my suggestions (based mainly on my pet peeves) which I offer as constructive advice. Feel free to add to my suggestions.

1) Try to learn the rules. On way too many broadcasts, the announcers just note that a foul was called without making any effort to identify what was called. I'm sure they wouldn't do that if calling a football game. Other times they assume every call is shooting space. Sometimes 3 seconds is called, and they openly question how a foul could have occurred with no contact.

Agreed!

2) Try to learn the terminology, and don't just adopt the terminology from a sport you know. For example, re-defending isn't "forechecking."

YES! This one aggravates me, too. One in particular is when the team plays on a football field and the announcer makes references to the yard markers. "And so-and-so carries the ball over the 30 yard line."
Good stuff, Badlands. Good to know there are folks of like mind about wlax broadcasts.
wlaxnut
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Re: Women's Lacrosse Broadcasts: Comments and Reviews

Post by wlaxnut »

LRoggy wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:56 am
I've done some color commentating on broadcasts and another thing to add is make sure you go over the roster with the coaches before the game to make sure of the pronunciation of the names. Plenty of parents and friends watching the broadcast and they are hoping their kid gets a mention, and getting the name right is a big deal to them.

Great point. It is very irritating when an announcer mispronounces players names. I watched a nationally telecast TV game a few weeks back and the male play-by-play guy was mispronouncing names all through the game, in spite of the fact that his female counterpart in the booth pronounced them correctly all game.

This sport in general, needs it's own Dick Vitale, someone who LOVES the sport and it comes through on the broadcast. We have not yet gotten the attention of the casual sports fan and we have to keep working on that.

I have mixed feelings on this point.

I think we do have our own kind of Vitale in Sheehan Stanwick-Burch, though she's got class and she's much more polished. She does have a passion for the sport, she just demonstrates it in a more understated way.

I'm not sure I am in a hurry for wlax to get the attention of the casual sports fan because I'm afraid the accessibility will become more limited, and the increased involvement of the casual fan might change the game for the worse somehow.
Good thoughts and feedback, LRoggy.
crusader
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Re: Women's Lacrosse Broadcasts: Comments and Reviews

Post by crusader »

I totally agree with you both. I am surprised with all the communication majors and ex athletes that no one steps up to really learn the game and rules/calls. I remember my daughters first college game in which the commentator stated that we need to get the first face-off-I knew it was going to be a long year. Most names mangled and wrong names called frequently. Goals given to wrong players as well.
wlaxnut
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Virginia Tech vs Denver. HokieVision Broadcast

Post by wlaxnut »

Great overall job on the broadcast. Big thumbs up for including the shot clock in the teams/score/time remaining banner. The teams conference and overall record included on banner, as well! Very helpful for the viewer to see all that info. Enhances enjoyment of the game—especially the shot clock.
LRoggy
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Re: Women's Lacrosse Broadcasts: Comments and Reviews

Post by LRoggy »

wlaxnut wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:10 am
LRoggy wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:56 am
I've done some color commentating on broadcasts and another thing to add is make sure you go over the roster with the coaches before the game to make sure of the pronunciation of the names. Plenty of parents and friends watching the broadcast and they are hoping their kid gets a mention, and getting the name right is a big deal to them.

Great point. It is very irritating when an announcer mispronounces players names. I watched a nationally telecast TV game a few weeks back and the male play-by-play guy was mispronouncing names all through the game, in spite of the fact that his female counterpart in the booth pronounced them correctly all game.

This sport in general, needs it's own Dick Vitale, someone who LOVES the sport and it comes through on the broadcast. We have not yet gotten the attention of the casual sports fan and we have to keep working on that.

I have mixed feelings on this point.

I think we do have our own kind of Vitale in Sheehan Stanwick-Burch, though she's got class and she's much more polished. She does have a passion for the sport, she just demonstrates it in a more understated way.

I'm not sure I am in a hurry for wlax to get the attention of the casual sports fan because I'm afraid the accessibility will become more limited, and the increased involvement of the casual fan might change the game for the worse somehow.
Good thoughts and feedback, LRoggy.
I was thinking about the Men's broadcasts too. What made Vitale so important in the early years of ESPN was that he was completely unapologetic in making the game FUN for the casual fan. I don't know many of the readers here remembers Al McGuire, the ex-Marquette basketball coach, but when he took up broadcasting he also made it fun for them. Not wanting the casual fan? That's how the sport dies . . . you always have to want to grow the audience . . . otherwise #GrowTheGame is MEANINGLESS!
wlaxnut
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Boston College at North Carolina Sat 3/23 ACC Network

Post by wlaxnut »

I tweeted this to a number of different parties who were involved in broadcasting the game:

"Camerawork is subpar, so far.
Why are you using such a wide frame?
Why is the focus generally so far away from the action? 
Why so far away on the draw?

And why no replays? How can you have no replays?
A major league Clash of the Titans from brand spanking
new North Carolina stadium and you don’t have replays?? 

Kudos for continual shot clock visible in banner

Field mics too low and out of balance with the level of the
play-by-play announcers microphone.
He’s too loud or the field mics are too low—or both.

That’s a shame that you aren’t pulling out all the stops
to showcase the great sport of women’s lacrosse. Tsk tsk."

I thought this was an underachieving effort on the production. Camerawork at the top of the list. Too far away for the most part. With no replay's to boot. That's the one that was puzzling to me. Lots of things wrong for a marquee matchup like this to get high school level quality is a shame. It's games like this that make you realize how far women's lacrosse still has to come in order to adequately showcase their fine sport.
wlaxnut
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Re: Women's Lacrosse Broadcasts: Comments and Reviews

Post by wlaxnut »

LRoggy wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:43 pm
Not wanting the casual fan? That's how the sport dies . . . you always have to want to grow the audience . . . otherwise #GrowTheGame is MEANINGLESS!
I'm not saying I don't want the casual fan, I'm just not sure I'm in a hurry for it to happen. I think women's lacrosse is enjoying a pre-golden age golden age--like baseball in the 40's and 50's before teams started to move out west and the players union got strong and the game changed, not for the better but for the worse, in hindsight. I just want to enjoy this period in women's lacrosse for a little longer. I know it's important to grow the game, but I just want to linger a little bit during this era, if that makes sense. The game is growing, more like exploding all over the US so I think it's only a matter of time before we really see the growth in more colleges adopting women's lacrosse and better establishment of pro leagues like UWLL and WPLL.
DMac
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Re: Women's Lacrosse Broadcasts: Comments and Reviews

Post by DMac »

LRoggy wrote:
Not wanting the casual fan? That's how the sport dies . . . you always have to want to grow the audience . . . otherwise #GrowTheGame is MEANINGLESS!
Respectfully, LRoggy, you have be careful with that casual fan too. If it were up to the casual fan, wlaxers would be wearing pads and playing the men's game. Do you want to sell your game out for the ca$ual fan? See what game is being proposed for Olympic "lacrosse" for more world wide appeal. That's not lacrosse, it's a bastardized version of the game with hopes of a more world wide appeal. Gotta be real careful with what you wish for with that treasure chest of ca$ual fans.
seacoaster
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Re: Women's Lacrosse Broadcasts: Comments and Reviews

Post by seacoaster »

DMac wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:33 am
LRoggy wrote:
Not wanting the casual fan? That's how the sport dies . . . you always have to want to grow the audience . . . otherwise #GrowTheGame is MEANINGLESS!
Respectfully, LRoggy, you have be careful with that casual fan too. If it were up to the casual fan, wlaxers would be wearing pads and playing the men's game. Do you want to sell your game out for the ca$ual fan? See what game is being proposed for Olympic "lacrosse" for more world wide appeal. That's not lacrosse, it's a bastardized version of the game with hopes of a more world wide appeal. Gotta be real careful with what you wish for with that treasure chest of ca$ual fans.
Bing!!!!! We have a winner!!!!!
wlaxnut
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Re: Women's Lacrosse Broadcasts: Comments and Reviews

Post by wlaxnut »

seacoaster wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:01 am
Bing!!!!! We have a winner!!!!!
https://youtu.be/TT_QuJfXRh8
wlaxnut
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Interesting notables from Brown vs #9 Princeton

Post by wlaxnut »

Brown is down 9-2 with 15:49 left in the 1st half when the Bears go on an amazing run, 10 unanswered goals to lead 12-9 and eventually win 12-11.

During the time that Brown was scoring 10 straight, Princeton went 37 minutes without scoring a goal, until Sears popped in two within a minute with 10:42 left.

From there, both teams were scoreless for the rest of the game.

Last time Brown won at Princeton was 28 years ago in 1991.
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Dr. Tact
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Re: Interesting notables from Brown vs #9 Princeton

Post by Dr. Tact »

wlaxnut wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:48 pm Brown is down 9-2 with 15:49 left in the 1st half when the Bears go on an amazing run, 10 unanswered goals to lead 12-9 and eventually win 12-11.

During the time that Brown was scoring 10 straight, Princeton went 37 minutes without scoring a goal, until Sears popped in two within a minute with 10:42 left.

From there, both teams were scoreless for the rest of the game.

Last time Brown won at Princeton was 28 years ago in 1991.
What? is it April 1st? :o
wlaxnut
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Re: FS1 broadcasts 1st women’s lacrosse game

Post by wlaxnut »

It’s still early in the Maryland/Princeton game but I have seen enough to see what I like and don’t like about the Fox Sports 1 broadcast. Overall, it’s fine. Decent camera work, with replays and multiple angles. The field mics are fine but are actually a bit too high so as to make listening to the announcers a little difficult at times. As far as the announcers go, I am a huge Sheehan Stanwick–Burch fan, so I am fine with her. I’m not crazy about Dean Linke on play-by-play. He’s given to hyperbole a bit too often. In general, it bothers me when announcers/journalists try to overhype the sport. It’s exciting enough on its own merit. The banner was great which included a shot clock, a player up clock and a tally of shots. Not too shabby. With a little fine tuning they could be a great showcaser of women's lacrosse.
Badlands
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Re: FS1 broadcasts 1st women’s lacrosse game

Post by Badlands »

wlaxnut wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:33 pm It’s still early in the Maryland/Princeton game but I have seen enough to see what I like and don’t like about the Fox Sports 1 broadcast. Overall, it’s fine. Decent camera work, with replays and multiple angles. The field mics are fine but are actually a bit too high so as to make listening to the announcers a little difficult at times. As far as the announcers go, I am a huge Sheehan Stanwick–Burch fan, so I am fine with her. I’m not crazy about Dean Linke on play-by-play. He’s given to hyperbole a bit too often. In general, it bothers me when announcers/journalists try to overhype the sport. It’s exciting enough on its own merit. The banner was great which included a shot clock, a player up clock and a tally of shots. Not too shabby. With a little fine tuning they could be a great showcaser of women's lacrosse.
Agree with your impressions. The field mics were WAY too loud. I think Linke is generally good, but he needs to tone it down after goals. Seems a bit exaggerated.

Wow, Terps have SO many weapons and their D is really stout. Was impressed by Princeton too, even though MD is just that much better than virtually every team. Princeton has some athletes with serious wheels -- # 3,4 and 14 come to mind.
wlaxnut
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ACC Network/ESPN broadcast of BC vs Virginia

Post by wlaxnut »

Decent broadcast overall. Lots of room for improvement, however. Camerawork was shaky, sometimes losing track of the ball and the ball carrier, sometimes focusing on the goaltender or the sidelines while play was going on in the offensive zone or during the intense clearing process. Viewers missed a lot of action because of it. Replays were erratic and sometimes not ready to go. Sometimes there was no score banner. Announcing duo was okay but were premature on a couple of goals in the first half when it was obvious the officials had waived them off. Sadly, this was largely an amateur production. A top 10 NCAA women’s lacrosse battle deserves to be showcased with a lot more polish.
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