NCAC 2019

D3 Mens Lacrosse
FannOLax
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Re: NCAC 2019

Post by FannOLax »

Yes, if I had to bet money on the OWU-Denison game, Denison prevailing by 4 or 5 seems about right, although it could be more like 7 or 8. However, there have been some big upsets in this series. It's hard to say how much the two teams may have improved during conference play. Last year the visiting team won all three games.
Cnoll
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Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:27 pm

Re: NCAC 2019

Post by Cnoll »

oldtimelax wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:38 am So....Saturday at 2PM at OWU's Selby Stadium, the Bishops and Big Red meet for the 103rd time to decide the 2019 regular season championship. It is also the first game they have played under the new shot-clock rules.

Denison has been steady all year with only two losses to top teams (Stevenson and Dickinson) and a #11 national ranking. They have won ten in a row and their team is deep and talented in all facets -- scoring, face-offs, clearing, riding, and team defense. The hardest task Caravana has had in the last month has been keeping his team playing at a high level during the soft part of their schedule.

OWU's season has been the exact opposite. Their early out-of-conference schedule was a disaster, as they were ill-prepared to face the top teams they faced, RIT, Salisbury and Cabrini. Plantholt started to fix the glaring problems with face-offs, clears and team defense but the Bishops still dropped winnable games versus RPI and Illinois Wesleyan. The 7-0 romp through the NCAC restored some confidence, but the Bishops are clearly not as deep or talented as the Big Red, especially on defense and ball possession.

This game is always a war, but Denison should prevail by 4-5 goals. Thoughts?
Deep and talented in all facets? Their #1 fogo is injured. Clearing has proved to be a monumental task for them this year. OWU will be very motivated. IF Denison wins, it won’t be by more than a goal or two.
oldtimelax
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Re: NCAC 2019

Post by oldtimelax »

Big Red have three other FO guys (Villacorta, Pincus and Bartozzi) who have taken lots of draws and are winning well over 50%, so OWU faithful will hold back their tears. Bishops best chance to win is if the game turns into a shoot-out. My guess is that the potential re-match a week later will be the real holy war, as it will be the last chance for Tennant, Hildebrand, Worrell, Jeshscke and Jamieson to punch their ticket for the NCAAs.
Cnoll
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Re: NCAC 2019

Post by Cnoll »

I know what the Big Red have, I’ve been to every game in person!
AllAboutTheD
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Re: NCAC 2019

Post by AllAboutTheD »

I've had the opportunity to watch Denison and OWU in the same week vs my beloved Wittenberg Tigers. My observations: Both teams are still loaded with talent. Some of you who have seen these programs for a long time may not think they stack up against other years, but still very talented and still the elite of the NCAC. Both teams have multiple scoring threats from crafty attackmen to step down mids. Here's where I see the teams differing: OWU has the more explosive transition offense. Not to take anything away from Denison's fast break, just that OWU's seems more overpowering. Denison is more methodical on both ends of the ball. Denison also seems to be a more disciplined team. In a game that was never really in doubt, OWU committed 9 penalties for a total of 61/2 minutes. In a similar margin of victory, Denison committed 4 penalites for 2 1/2 minutes. It certainly seems as though OWU embraces a purposeful aggressiveness. I understand that winning teams need to be aggressive. Denison is no pushover in that category. I would describe Denison as more business-like in that regard. They are physical without the chippiness or the chirping. I'm looking forward to an exciting game between the two best teams in the conference and a Denison W.
oldtimelax
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Re: NCAC 2019

Post by oldtimelax »

What you described is the way both these teams have played for years. The Denison style goes back to the Tommy Thomsen, starting in the late 60s. OWU became a powerhouse in the early 70s when an influx of players from Long Island imported that run-and-gun aggressive brand to Ohio.
Nosey Ned
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Re: NCAC 2019

Post by Nosey Ned »

I expect a close game. These teams were very evenly matched last year as the aggregate score of the 3 games was 32-31 DU's favor. I think the offenses are mostly intact from last year so it will come down to who has been able to retool the defense more effectively. Possession will also be key so the young Big Red FOGO replacements will have a say in the outcome before the day is through - positive or negative.

I see Denison winning by 2 but the reality is Saturday is just the preamble to the expected rematch! That's when everything will be on the line and both sets of seniors will be playing not only for their teammates but for the lacrosse alumni as well. So it could very well come down to which coaching staff can better adapt quickly to what was learned in the first game. The talent pool on both teams is exceptional and I expect both teams will be playing their hearts out and why this series is a treat - one of the best D3 lacrosse rivalries there is. Hats off to both teams for getting to this point undefeated in conference and making our anticipation so palpable.
LordRaider
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Re: NCAC 2019

Post by LordRaider »

So if Witt beats Wooster and DePauw beats Hiram, it’s a 3-way tie for the 4th tourney spot? That outcome seems rather likely! I guess a tie-breaker then decides who gets the privilege of facing the top-seed? And Kenyon faces the team that loses this weekends match up?
laxdudeguy43
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Re: NCAC 2019

Post by laxdudeguy43 »

lordslaxfan wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:38 pm I think that we need to accept the current landscape of the NCAC. I hate to say this, but the vast majority of the games that Denison and OWU play in the NCAC not be close. A couple of years ago, it looked like Wooster, Witt or Kenyon could take a step forward and compete with the titans of the NCAC, but Wittenberg and Wooster appear to have taken a step back and kenyon may have taken a half step toward. Denison and OWU are two- three notches above the competition, and at best the games are hard fought blow outs.
These three teams take turns on having good seasons in the NCAC. Kenyon the last two years have disappointed, but this season look better but still in a different class than Denison and OWU. Witt has been consistent in flirting with the 4 seed every year. Depauw has now insteted themselves into this mix of teams competing for the 3/4 seed in the NCAC. WOO has had an off year after graduating some high quality talent. This senior class of 3 at Wooster were seniors in high school the year Wooster had a coach step down the first day of the season, and all the other recruits decided to take their talents elsewhere. Next year will be the senior year for Kavs first recruiting class, and they are pretty much bringing back the same team, plus some quality recruits. I expect a win Saturday out of WOO and a bounceback season in 2020.
lordslaxfan
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Re: NCAC 2019

Post by lordslaxfan »

I think you are mistaken. Kenyon disappointed in 2017, but they made the NCAC tournament last year. . Including this year, they have made the NCAC tourney in 6/7 , and they were the three seed last year.
FannOLax
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Re: NCAC 2019

Post by FannOLax »

Yes, Kenyon was third seed last year, and will be so this year. Given its facilities, recent performance and to a lesser degree its lax history, I think of Kenyon as the most likely to challenge the two conference titans. In 2008, Kenyon beat Roanoke and made it to the NCAA tourney; seems like a long time ago now. Very good school, Kenyon.
Cheeseandcrackers
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Re: NCAC 2019

Post by Cheeseandcrackers »

I'm very impressed with the way OWU has bounced back from a very rough start to the season. A testament to good coaching - this was a season on the brink a couple of times. Denison has been consistently good, but when you look at recent outcomes it appears the gap has narrowed between the two. Although it looks like the game Saturday is really just for home field for the conference tourney, I think Plantholt and Caravana would agree a one seed date with Woo, Witt or DePauw beats facing Kenyon. Some great NCAC lax left to play.
Nosey Ned
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Re: NCAC 2019

Post by Nosey Ned »

lordslaxfan wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:38 pm I think that we need to accept the current landscape of the NCAC. I hate to say this, but the vast majority of the games that Denison and OWU play in the NCAC not be close. A couple of years ago, it looked like Wooster, Witt or Kenyon could take a step forward and compete with the titans of the NCAC, but Wittenberg and Wooster appear to have taken a step back and kenyon may have taken a half step toward. Denison and OWU are two- three notches above the competition, and at best the games are hard fought blow outs.
I think we can all agree that OWU and DU are at a different level then the rest of the NCAC. Since no other one individual NCAC team can seriously play with either of them, it might be fun to put together an All-Star team consisting of current conference players that could not only play with one of them but perhaps best one of them.
To be clear, I mean no disrespect to any team or player. They ALL work hard and do their best and I congratulate the entire conference .... to the contrary this is a meant as a compliment to individual players that i've seen play this year that impressed me. On attack I'd like to see Moderwell (Witt), Vitali (Kenyon) and Pierce (Woo). On close D LeBarge (Witt) , Byrnes (Ken) and Bleifuss (DeP). Goalie I'll take Metzger (Ken). I can use help with Middies (off and def) and specials. Anyone care to help?


Separately, I think it's telling that I can't think of any Middies I've seen this year that warrant this mini All-Star recognition. I'm sure there are some, it's just that none jumped out at me. And maybe therein lies the problem ... and the biggest difference between OWU and Denison vs the rest of the field is the lack of of depth and talent at the midfield. A reality that will kill a team faster then any other maybe aside from no goalie.

And there is a point here... when you can at least construct a team from the #s 3-6 teams in the conference that could beat OWU or DU, only then can you honestly say the conference is getting better top to bottom. I don't think we're there yet.
seacoaster
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Re: NCAC 2019

Post by seacoaster »

Cheeseandcrackers wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:34 pm I'm very impressed with the way OWU has bounced back from a very rough start to the season. A testament to good coaching - this was a season on the brink a couple of times. Denison has been consistently good, but when you look at recent outcomes it appears the gap has narrowed between the two. Although it looks like the game Saturday is really just for home field for the conference tourney, I think Plantholt and Caravana would agree a one seed date with Woo, Witt or DePauw beats facing Kenyon. Some great NCAC lax left to play.
Agree with everything here. Should be a great game in Delaware Saturday.
seacoaster
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Re: NCAC 2019

Post by seacoaster »

Wow. What a warrior. Decamp gets the game ball in this one.
FannOLax
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Re: NCAC 2019

Post by FannOLax »

Kudos to both Denison and OWU on a terrific game. OWU has improved tremendously since early March; looks capable of snatching the AQ in Granville.
oldtimelax
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Re: NCAC 2019

Post by oldtimelax »

Game was tale of two halves. OWU up 8-4 in first half, playing great both on defense and offense. Credit Caravana for making adjustments at the half, and injured Henry DeCamp for coming in (at FOGO) and Spencer Butler (7 goals in 2nd half) for lifting up Big Red and leading them to a well-deserved 16-13 victory. Big Red were simply the better team and justified their national ranking.

Can OWU clean some things up and come back and win next week? Surely, yes. But they have to beat Kenyon first, and then play 60 minutes vs. Denison.
Last edited by oldtimelax on Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
Nosey Ned
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Re: NCAC 2019

Post by Nosey Ned »

seacoaster wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:07 pm Wow. What a warrior. Decamp gets the game ball in this one.
Think you need to hand out 3 game balls. #19 Decamp gets one agreed but McKeeney #50 with 17 saves and Spencer Butler #2 with 7 goals .. all in the second half both deserve one too!

Great win .... DU were down 9-4 early in third and Butler took over, scoring 4 straight to put the Big Red back in it! DU won the 4th Q 7-1!
D1LaxScout
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Re: NCAC 2019

Post by D1LaxScout »

Nosey Ned wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:35 pm
lordslaxfan wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:38 pm I think that we need to accept the current landscape of the NCAC. I hate to say this, but the vast majority of the games that Denison and OWU play in the NCAC not be close. A couple of years ago, it looked like Wooster, Witt or Kenyon could take a step forward and compete with the titans of the NCAC, but Wittenberg and Wooster appear to have taken a step back and kenyon may have taken a half step toward. Denison and OWU are two- three notches above the competition, and at best the games are hard fought blow outs.
I think we can all agree that OWU and DU are at a different level then the rest of the NCAC. Since no other one individual NCAC team can seriously play with either of them, it might be fun to put together an All-Star team consisting of current conference players that could not only play with one of them but perhaps best one of them.
To be clear, I mean no disrespect to any team or player. They ALL work hard and do their best and I congratulate the entire conference .... to the contrary this is a meant as a compliment to individual players that i've seen play this year that impressed me. On attack I'd like to see Moderwell (Witt), Vitali (Kenyon) and Pierce (Woo). On close D LeBarge (Witt) , Byrnes (Ken) and Bleifuss (DeP). Goalie I'll take Metzger (Ken). I can use help with Middies (off and def) and specials. Anyone care to help?


Separately, I think it's telling that I can't think of any Middies I've seen this year that warrant this mini All-Star recognition. I'm sure there are some, it's just that none jumped out at me. And maybe therein lies the problem ... and the biggest difference between OWU and Denison vs the rest of the field is the lack of of depth and talent at the midfield. A reality that will kill a team faster then any other maybe aside from no goalie.

And there is a point here... when you can at least construct a team from the #s 3-6 teams in the conference that could beat OWU or DU, only then can you honestly say the conference is getting better top to bottom. I don't think we're there yet.
In watching a number of games this year, it is clear that quality depth is an issue for most teams in the NCAC. Unless the "other" teams can recruit a higher quality of players, it will be difficult for them to challenge OWU or Denison.

The onus is really on the coaches and administrations of the "other" programs. But mostly on the coaches. Here is what I would recommend if I was in their shoes.

1) Recruit and focus on face-off specialists. These teams must get more chances if they want to beat better teams.
2) Relentless emphasis on athletic middies. I don't see much in NCAC from the middie quality, but the "other" teams are exposed with their SSMs.
3) Play up-tempo on all clears and face-off wins. Scoring in 3-4 goals in scramble situations is essential. And if that happens these "other" teams can score 13-16 goals and definitely be in a situation to win.
4) Leverage the ability to play right away and redefine the culture/tradition at these schools.

This means the coaches must be charismatic, game smart and real teachers. I'm curious what the belief is about the coaches at Witt, Woo, Kenyon and DePauw? Can anyone comment?

As it relates to the All Star idea, I think you've identified some of the player types are needed to be playing together at these "other" schools in the future. I especially like Moderwell (Witt), Vitali (Ken), Byrnes (Ken) and Bliefuss (DeP), but I can't identify the middies that are the quality needed in the future. And that is one of the real issues.
lordslaxfan
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Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:25 am

Re: NCAC 2019

Post by lordslaxfan »

I played at Kenyon under Coach Misarti. He has the program going in the right direction. When I was a sophomore, the kids in my class talked to the juniors and the seniors about the direction of the program. The older players all agreed that the average skill level of the recruits was getting better and better every year. I know that a couple of the kids that I played with had serious D-1 looks and some of them passed up D-1 programs to go to Kenyon. I know that fair number of the kids in classes around me were picking between Kenyon and upper level centennial league, and lower level to mid level NESCAC programs. I have spoken to some of the kids who were younger than me, and the trend has continued.

I think it is fair to say that before 2011 Wittenberg, and Wooster were in a clear second tier in the NCAC and Kenyon was in the 3rd tier, and Oberlin was in the 4t tier. At the moment, I think Denison, and OWU are in the first tier, and Kenyon, Wittenberg, and Wooster are in the 2nd tier. For Kenyon to take the next step forward, they need to recruit more stars, improve the skill of their average player, and make sure that they have quality assistant coaches. This is not a knock on their current assistants, but I know that good assistants are hard to find, and become head coaches very quickly
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