Texas 2019

HS Boys Lacrosse
laxman
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Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Texas 2019

Post by laxman »

Also, if it so ok to have public and private compete for the same championship.....then why doesn't every other state do it?

Explain why they separate then?
DallasLaxDad
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Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 5:08 pm

Re: Texas 2019

Post by DallasLaxDad »

So privates do recruit. Do not tell me that doesn't happen when kids in middle school are approached by parents/people from the privates and asked 'would you want a private education'?' What is funny is they ask the kid that scored 4/5 goals, not the kid on the end of the bench.

Do not say it doesn't cause I have seen and witnessed it happen.
Some privates will run summer teams and then use that as a platform to get recruits.

Also public schools can not recruit or get kids from different school districts. They get what they get. Build from within and then at times these private swoop and take them. The part that irks people is that they have to then play against them. The playing field not the same. No public school can go to a Jesuit/St Marks/ESD kid and ask them to go to their school.
I know it happens . . .you can see it in the news coverage. I just don't think you can put in on par with AAU basketball style recruiting. There are no or limited scholarships or financial inducements. In a lot of cases it is a sacrifice for families that do step into the private realm and many kids come in from very respectable public school systems (Plano West, Southlake, etc). I am sure if the parents of these kids could stay in a high quality public school system and see their children compete at the highest level they would choose that 10 times out of 10.

Regarding playing field, it seems like should always be stacked in the favor of publics given the incredible pool of athletes they can choose from. Allen has over 2,000 high school boys to choose from . . .they will likely over time develop a program that dwarfs the privates ability to compete. Jesuit is the only exception given that they compete at the 6A level in every sport. Jesuit has over 1,100 boys to choose from while ESD has roughly 200 and St. Marks 400.

Jesuit has always been the draw for families that want upper tier sports and the private educational experience inside the 635 loop and I don't see that changing any time soon.
LaxLurker
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 11:22 am

Re: Texas 2019

Post by LaxLurker »

A couple of thoughts.

-What I've seen is privates don't overtly recruit, but the affiliated club programs allow families to see what a well run/coached organization looks like and make a choice to get out of the volunteer, parent driven organizations affiliated with the public school. It doesn't happen alot with HP, b/c it is well run and has lots of history on how to do things right.
-I'm a believer that the sport needs to become a UIL sport to truly harness the potential of the large student bodies at Allen, SL, Frisco etc. My experience is the school's support is very weak. You want a field? Pay $150/hour. You're going DI? No invite to NLI signing day. Play lacrosse/football? You need to run track or wrestle in the Spring. Win an NCAA DI nation championship? Crickets from the ISD. At the end of the day these boys want to be part of the school and not the red-headed step child practicing on some crappy field
-UIL is not a magic bullet, yes you will loose some coaches (maybe alot) who do not want to be school employees, but ultimately Texas needs to grow its pool of quality coaches anyways. With that said, UIL inclusion is most likely a pipe dream, but without it, growth from this point forward is arrested development.
-As for coaches, quality coaching cost money. The youth program subsidize the HS programs, driving up cost and making lacrosse more expensive vs the alternative. If we had UIL inclusion, the coaching cost goes away. If a family has limited experience with lacrosse cost can be the deciding factor to play baseball or flag football in the spring, especially at a young age.
-Ultimately, the parent driven boards are the solution and the problem. Without them, lacrosse would probably not exist in Texas. On the flip side, running these organizations is a lot of work and creates burnout. The strong organizations are constantly backfilling and finding the next group of parents to lead. The weak organizations try to do much, focus on the now and do not spend enough time filling in the base of the pyramid (ie 1/2 and 3/4s)
-As for the clubs, ultimately I think they are a good thing. They bring in quality coaches and are generally well run. The cost are high, but they need to make $$ so it is a choice we make. Do we need to travel to 3 tournaments in the Summer? Debatable.
-Final point for now, we need to have more "sandlot lacrosse", kids have to figure stuff out on their own and fall in love with the sport. Playing for the sake of playing is the best way (IMHO) to make this happen. I wish DFWL would put something together in the fall that is low key, low cost. Maybe something like show up in Frisco on Sunday night, pay $5 bucks and play a pickup game for an hour. Just a thought.
washedupobserver
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Joined: Tue May 14, 2019 3:46 pm

Re: Texas 2019

Post by washedupobserver »

laxman wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 12:08 pm Also, if it so ok to have public and private compete for the same championship.....then why doesn't every other state do it?

Explain why they separate then?
Michigan, Ohio, Colorado, Ny, Long Island, not sure about Indiana or Illinois. Florida and California mix but they do regional championships right? And as far on a sanctioned interscholastic league on a state by state basis across all sports I think mixed competition is more common. They just classify by size.
DallasLaxDad
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Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 5:08 pm

Re: Texas 2019

Post by DallasLaxDad »

washedupobserver wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 10:41 pm
laxman wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 12:08 pm Also, if it so ok to have public and private compete for the same championship.....then why doesn't every other state do it?

Explain why they separate then?
Michigan, Ohio, Colorado, Ny, Long Island, not sure about Indiana or Illinois. Florida and California mix but they do regional championships right? And as far on a sanctioned interscholastic league on a state by state basis across all sports I think mixed competition is more common. They just classify by size.
Illinois I think is mixed. I lived up that way for a long time and the publics and privates appear to be in the same system. The New Trier/Loyola rivalry is similar to HP/Jesuit matchup down here. They both seem to trip to Culver and get blown out on a yearly basis.
cltlax
Posts: 358
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Location: Charlotte

Re: Texas 2019

Post by cltlax »

washedupobserver wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 10:41 pm
laxman wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 12:08 pm Also, if it so ok to have public and private compete for the same championship.....then why doesn't every other state do it?

Explain why they separate then?
Michigan, Ohio, Colorado, Ny, Long Island, not sure about Indiana or Illinois. Florida and California mix but they do regional championships right? And as far on a sanctioned interscholastic league on a state by state basis across all sports I think mixed competition is more common. They just classify by size.
North Carolina has separate public and private state championships. However, the Catholic schools play in the public division despite the fact that they can recruit.
ghostofstblax
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Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:46 pm

Re: Texas 2019

Post by ghostofstblax »

Ok. With the private school recruiting topic - folks are on, public schools can and do recruit. I know several private school players that ultimately ended up going to public schools. Each situation was different, but moves from privates to public happen. I know that Allen football has kids move into their district to play football for the their successful state championship team for more exposure and better coaching. If you don't think that happens you are naive. Do parents see a great young middle school player and ask the parents if they have considered school X. I am sure that happens, but is that school sponsored recruiting? The public school almost always have Thousands more kids then the privates so they have that inherent advantage. If you have a solid program / good education kids will stay as parents aren't going to spend tens of thousands for no reason.

The education and program stability is what ATTRACTS the players more than them getting recruited. I know of many kids that wanted to go to Jesuit for example to play lacrosse and didn't get in. I am not talking about end of the bench players - these were all state players. They didn't get any help to get in - they had to have the grades and scores like everyone else. They didn't have the academic profile and the parents were furious, but that's the facts. Kids try to transfer in every year so when years go by with no transfers know that it wasn't a lack of interest by the kids or the opportunity for Jesuit to add to their lacrosse team if that's how their system worked, but their inability match the criteria to gain admission stopped them and their on field abilities couldn't help them. If you think Surran can just go out and recruit and get folks in you don't understand the admissions process. Nor would the School allow the lacrosse program to jeopardize the rest of the school's athletic department with the UIL after they spent decades and $ to gain admission. Just don't think the risk is worth the reward.

I think the difference for the private schools is education as well as the opportunity to play in a program that is supported by the school. The lack of institutional support holds lots of programs back and the kids see the frustration and how they are perceived. They want to play were folks appreciate their efforts. Lacrosse is a big deal at ESD and most if not all the best athletes want to play on the team and are exposed to the sport early. That's the only reason why a school that size beats WL/TWHS/HP.
allagash
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Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:33 am

Texas 2019

Post by allagash »

So has anyone started a "way to early" 2020 Top 10- DI and DII ranking?
ghostofstblax
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Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:46 pm

Re: Texas 2019

Post by ghostofstblax »

Given the momentum WL had and all they have coming back as well as another year with the new coach would think they would have to be the favorite?
ghostofstblax
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Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:46 pm

Re: Texas 2019

Post by ghostofstblax »

Just to be clear since Jesuit doesn't have any automatic feeder schools - all 1,100 boys are technically "recruited". The question is do they "Recruit" for strictly athletic purposes and admit these students outside of the normal process of admitting students. They don't know who's going to show up every year so they recruit students from across the metroplex who are looking for the education and experience that they offer. It isn't for everyone and is a sacrifice for a lot of the parents and students that attend.
DallasLaxDad
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Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 5:08 pm

Re: Texas 2019

Post by DallasLaxDad »

ghostofstblax wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 12:25 pm Just to be clear since Jesuit doesn't have any automatic feeder schools - all 1,100 boys are technically "recruited". The question is do they "Recruit" for strictly athletic purposes and admit these students outside of the normal process of admitting students. They don't know who's going to show up every year so they recruit students from across the metroplex who are looking for the education and experience that they offer. It isn't for everyone and is a sacrifice for a lot of the parents and students that attend.
This is a fair point. . . .that being said Jesuit has about six K-8 Catholic institutions around north Dallas whose entire student body plans on Jesuit for high school. I don't know many St. Rita or Christ the King parents prefer a Cistercian or Bishop Lynch over Jesuit but I feel like they are in the very tiny minority. Jesuit does have a fairly captive pool of potential student and just can't let each and every one of them in each year.
DallasLaxDad
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Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 5:08 pm

Re: Texas 2019

Post by DallasLaxDad »

ghostofstblax wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 12:15 pm Given the momentum WL had and all they have coming back as well as another year with the new coach would think they would have to be the favorite?
Hard to tell. I feel like the results were incredibly random all last year.

- The ESD early season win over Westlake was by a pretty huge margin.
- The Woodlands knocked off HP up in Dallas but gets beat by Westlake.
- Westlake handles HP easily early on but gets beat in the playoffs.
- Jesuit knocked off the Woodland and ESD during the regular season and played ESD much tougher than HP did in the title game.
- HP knocks off Jesuit and ESD during the regular season.

There seemed to be a ton of parity across the top teams and ESD just peaked at the right time. HP always seems to have a mental thing going. They usually have equal or better talent but have flaked out in big games for several years now.
LaxLurker
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 11:22 am

Re: Texas 2019

Post by LaxLurker »

ghostofstblax wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 11:10 am
I think the difference for the private schools is education as well as the opportunity to play in a program that is supported by the school. The lack of institutional support holds lots of programs back and the kids see the frustration and how they are perceived. They want to play were folks appreciate their efforts. Lacrosse is a big deal at ESD and most if not all the best athletes want to play on the team and are exposed to the sport early. That's the only reason why a school that size beats WL/TWHS/HP.
I agree 100% with kids wanting to play in a program that is supported by the school. The privates offer this. In the public schools, lots of boys play football in MS for the social aspect of it... being with friends, pep rallies, game day attire, bus rides etc. They do it b/c it is social. They don't do it b/c they think they are going to Texas or Ohio state. Because they see the social benefits of playing they do end up playing in HS and some are stars, most sit the bench. The lack of integration of lacrosse at public schools makes it the social circles smaller, which in turns hurts the sports.

One interesting tidbit I came across that I think is impeding the growth of lacrosse is the states Robin Hood funding formula. Because field usage fees are not part of recapture, these funds can go directly to the athletic departments. Thus the ADs charge an arm and leg to rent the fields to the lax programs driving the lax program away from the campuses and further outside the social scene at the schools. I know some programs pay the fees, but I think it is crazy that a varsity level sport has to go begging for fields or pay $150/hour to rent the fields their parents tax dollars paid for.
ghostofstblax
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Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:46 pm

Re: Texas 2019

Post by ghostofstblax »

DallasLaxDad wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 2:28 pm
ghostofstblax wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 12:25 pm Just to be clear since Jesuit doesn't have any automatic feeder schools - all 1,100 boys are technically "recruited". The question is do they "Recruit" for strictly athletic purposes and admit these students outside of the normal process of admitting students. They don't know who's going to show up every year so they recruit students from across the metroplex who are looking for the education and experience that they offer. It isn't for everyone and is a sacrifice for a lot of the parents and students that attend.
This is a fair point. . . .that being said Jesuit has about six K-8 Catholic institutions around north Dallas whose entire student body plans on Jesuit for high school. I don't know many St. Rita or Christ the King parents prefer a Cistercian or Bishop Lynch over Jesuit but I feel like they are in the very tiny minority. Jesuit does have a fairly captive pool of potential student and just can't let each and every one of them in each year.
I agree that a large percentage probably north of 80% of the CKS / St Rita boys do go to Jesuit, with the rest headed to Cistercian and occasionally to BL. I think you also see a significant number of St Monica boys go to Jesuit. The Northern and Eastern DPL schools send a smaller number as many choose to go to BL or JPII. The issue Jesuit has is that although CKS sends probably over 95% of its 8th grade boys to Jesuit they are one of the smaller schools in the DPL. CKS likely makes up for less than 10% of the FR class each year.

I do think that Jesuit attracts MS kids who play for IH and end up practicing at Jesuit. They see the facilities and the support and are drawn to it - these are likely parents and kids who would not have otherwise considered Jesuit. The social and athletic separation that occurs at some of the public HS is highlighted when these kids play IH and practice at Jesuit. This is what leads to a lot of the transfers in my opinion. I don't see this as recruiting. A school like HP, which is just up the road but does support its team, doesn't lose kids to Jesuit.
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HooDat
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Re: Texas 2019

Post by HooDat »

Congratulations to Cade Saustad for making the NCAA All-Tournament Team!

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... 13-9/54682
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
DallasLaxDad
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Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 5:08 pm

Re: Texas 2019

Post by DallasLaxDad »

Exciting . . .crazy that he and Nakei Montgomery were playing against each other just a few years ago down here. They are both very elite athletes who have excelled at the next level.
blue angels
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Re: Texas 2019

Post by blue angels »

HooDat wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 10:29 am Congratulations to Cade Saustad for making the NCAA All-Tournament Team!

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... 13-9/54682
Saustad will be Virginia’s Next AA at close D. Next year Bower comes. If he has anything close to the same level of talent, look out. Did their teams play against each other?
Doid23
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:52 am

Re: Texas 2019

Post by Doid23 »

blue angels wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 9:39 pm
HooDat wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 10:29 am Congratulations to Cade Saustad for making the NCAA All-Tournament Team!

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... 13-9/54682
Saustad will be Virginia’s Next AA at close D. Next year Bower comes. If he has anything close to the same level of talent, look out. Did their teams play against each other?
Yes, Cade played for Highland Park (along with Colby Kneese, Penn State Goalie), and Bowers played for ESD (where Nakaie Montgomery played). Good rivalry, with a bunch of kids from both schools going to play in college. Interesting fact, Cade with HP won the 2015 state lax championship as a freshman, then starred on the HP football team that won state titles his junior and senior year, and now a Chip as a Freshman at UVA.
blue angels
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:37 pm

Re: Texas 2019

Post by blue angels »

Doid23 wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 9:43 am
blue angels wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 9:39 pm
HooDat wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 10:29 am Congratulations to Cade Saustad for making the NCAA All-Tournament Team!

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... 13-9/54682
Saustad will be Virginia’s Next AA at close D. Next year Bower comes. If he has anything close to the same level of talent, look out. Did their teams play against each other?
Yes, Cade played for Highland Park (along with Colby Kneese, Penn State Goalie), and Bowers played for ESD (where Nakaie Montgomery played). Good rivalry, with a bunch of kids from both schools going to play in college. Interesting fact, Cade with HP won the 2015 state lax championship as a freshman, then starred on the HP football team that won state titles his junior and senior year, and now a Chip as a Freshman at UVA.
More accolades for Cade Saustad. Inside Lacrosse ranks him as the #3 best freshman player in the Country for 2019.
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