HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

HS Boys Lacrosse
wahoomurf
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

Post by wahoomurf »

Here's a write up from our local rag.SUBJECT: One of THE BEST High School lacrosse games I've seen in many years.Too bad this game was virtually ignored by sites that cover lacrosse.BTW 3,400 folks were in attendance.

https://www.newsday.com/sports/high-sch ... 1.31134614
RumorMill
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

Post by RumorMill »

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... wick/54570

This the same one? Definitely an impressive display of high school lax! O'neill showing up again.
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admin
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

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Thought this was a little interesting so posting it in case you feel the same: National Rankings with Game Scores factored in and not factored in. Philosophically and practically I prefer one to the other but I'll curb my tongue in order to not to prejudice people's opinions.
Laxxal22
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

Post by Laxxal22 »

Malvern Prep with a 9-8 (2 OT) win over Haverford School should shake up the rankings a bit.
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admin
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

Post by admin »

Saw this, too. :) Was planning on doing HS Girls and closing out the Mens and Women's NAIA today, then saw this, and was like, Malvern lost to everybody this season. What'd this do to the Boys Rankings...?

Haven't looked yet but... Malvern will obviously move up, Haverford will drop, the question is whether they'll drop a little or a lot, and... Several top teams have Haverford as one of their Best Wins. If Haverford drops in any real way, there'll be implications for these teams. but we'll see....

also, bunch of NY games.
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

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HS BOYS: Malvern beat Haverford in the IAC (PA) Championship Final, Cherry Creek (CO) beat Kent Denver (CO), Jamesville-Dewitt (NY) beat East Syracuse-Minoa (NY), and... FanLax Computer Rankings updated. http://fanlax.com/fanlax/2019/05/22/201 ... gs-may-22/
pcowlax
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

Post by pcowlax »

admin wrote: Tue May 21, 2019 5:48 pm Thought this was a little interesting so posting it in case you feel the same: National Rankings with Game Scores factored in and not factored in. Philosophically and practically I prefer one to the other but I'll curb my tongue in order to not to prejudice people's opinions.
Very interesting looking at the differences, thanks for doing this.
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

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HS BOYS: Yesterday's Biggest Wins were Hunterdon Central (NJ) beat Ridgewood (NJ), Avon Old Farms (CT) beat Loomis Chaffee (CT), Academy New Church (PA) beat Lawrenceville (NJ), and Don Bosco Prep (NJ) beat Bergen Catholic (NJ). http://fanlax.com/fanlax/2019/05/23/201 ... gs-may-23/
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

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HS BOYS BIG WINS: Bullis (MD) beat Salisbury (CT) and Hill Academy (CN), Manhasset (NY) beat Garden City (NY), Don Bosco Prep (NJ) beat Seton Hall Prep (NJ), Salisbury School (CT) beat St Sebastians School (MA), and... We updated our Computer Rankings. http://fanlax.com/fanlax/2019/05/29/hs- ... -rankings/
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Dip&Dunk
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

Post by Dip&Dunk »

Team wins regional championship. Opposing team was 18-2. Our ranking goes down 200+ slots. Can't wait to win state championship to see ranking go down 300+ slots. (State: Virginia, not exactly a state new to lacrosse either)
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

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If you share the name of the school we can do something to explain or amend this. Sounds like an error.
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Dip&Dunk
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

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albemarle
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

Post by admin »

Dip, thanks.

HS BOYS: 2019 FanLax Computer Rankings (updated through May 30). Yesterday's 3 Biggest Wins: Ward Melville (NY) beat Smithtown West (NY), Delbarton (NJ) beat Don Bosco Prep (NJ), and Crestwood (PA) beat Lewisburg (PA). http://fanlax.com/fanlax/2019/05/31/201 ... gs-may-31/
DallasLaxDad
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

Post by DallasLaxDad »

Interesting....Dallas Episcopal beats Austin Westlake by a huge margin during the regular season and beats Dallas Jesuit and Highland Park en route to the state title and stillranks below all of those teams in this system.
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

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DallasDad, the system looks at the teams entire season, their complete resume for 2019, with no regard for play-offs, etc. Just Ws and Ls. So with that in mind:

Episcopal Dallas's wins are the best of this bunch (except Highland Park who is tied with them in terms of Ws). The problem for Episcopal Dallas is their losses. i.e. They have the worst losses though only by a little compared to Highland Park. Highland Park's and Episcopal Dallas' numbers are very similar). Episcopal Dallas' losses to Ponte Vedra, Highland Park, and Dallas Jesuit aren't too painful. Nor is the loss to Jupiter. The loss to
Woodlands hurts much more. First game of the season but... The Computer just sees an L. And not a great L.
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

Post by DallasLaxDad »

Got it . .thanks. You see a similar gulf in computerized rankings in other sports. The Sagarin Power Rankings in college football usually has a wildly different take as compared to the AP voters.

I guess that is why we settle it on the field, at least at the state level, which is the final word on things.
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

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it's true. It's all contingent on the metric. There are websites that are based on little more than winning percentage. and, as a consequence, teams in middle america with terrible SOSs, are in the Top Ten and... The Ranking isn't "wrong". There are websites that put an emphasis on games scores and, as a consequence, a team that's undefeated and beaten numerous top teams but teams they've beaten are ahead of them because the wins of the better team were by 1 or 2 while the teams they beat are beating (weaker) teams by bunches. again, they're not "wrong". Just using a different metric. when the "metric" is human beings "eye test" (to this day, i don't understand what that is), things get as, if not more, crazy. Anyway...

Created a Version 2.0 and... (1) I'm not 100% done yet but I'm close (2) i think it's pretty good (and (3) Not done yet but in the test runs, it's kind to Dallas Episcopal (though not as kind as it is to Highland Park). :)
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

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Rankings are typically as meaningful as People's Most Beautiful People issue. Entertaining but meaningless. We felt that this Ranking wasa bit more valuable because it helped us to see the teams differently. To better see where teams' successes were as well as their failures. This Top 3 Ranking ranks teams based on their 3 Best Wins and 3 Worst Losses.

How the Top 3 Ranking Works
In 2019, based on their wins and losses vs. MIAA teams, Calvert Hall was the #1 team in the MIAA conference. Based on Calvert Hall’s wins and losses vs. teams in Maryland, including the MIAA, Calvert Hall is also the #1 team in Maryland. But based on Calvert Hall’s wins and losses vs. teams nationally, they’re no longer the top team in Maryland nor in the MIAA. This is a legitimate, rational point and this ranking helps to show this. To show that Calvert Hall had a great season locally. Locally and Nationally, McDonogh was better.

By looking at the Rankings, you can see why. Grossly simplified, the Top 3 Rankings are based on each team’s Top 3 Wins along with their losses to teams that are ranked lower than the relevant team’s current ranking. This way, a team won’t be rewarded for losing (to a higher ranked team).

Every number in the Graph is a Ranking. e.g. The first line is the #1 team, St. Anthony's, whose best win was against the #4 ranked team. Their 2nd Best Win was over the #9 ranked team. Etc.

Lastly, the Rankings are updated through yesterday's games but... We haven't uploaded the most recent scores yet).
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

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admin wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:20 pmCreated a Version 2.0 and... (1) I'm not 100% done yet but I'm close (2) i think it's pretty good (and (3) Not done yet but in the test runs, it's kind to Dallas Episcopal (though not as kind as it is to Highland Park). :)
Dallas, sure enough, though only barely, it was kinder to Episcopal Dallas than any of the other Texas teams. The chart, at least for me, really helps to show what happened with these teams this season. e.g. How Episcopal Dallas's and Highland Parks' seasons were so similar and also so different. And you can see how I could make Episcopal Dallas look like heroes and, conversely, like goats. How focusing on Wins or losses and where to draw the line for how many wins and losses and which wins or losses count more or less and etc. Bottomline, in this Ranking, Episcopal Dallas looks better than the previous Ranking(s).
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Re: HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

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Game scores is another metric that a team can use to justify being better (or worse) than another team(s). (Maybe I'll do one with Game Scores again.)
For example, How is Brunswick #5? https://www.laxnumbers.com/ratings.php?y=2019&v=3000 Compare them to #8 salisbury and explain it. The answer is... LaxNumbers puts a high value on Game Scores. That's also how Calvert Hall is #1, etc.

I'm not denigrating any Rankings, ours included. I'm just saying that rankings are like Financial Statements. They're important. If you're running a business, you need them to evaluate the health of your business. But, when this same company is sharing their financials with outsiders.... The books can change. You don't need to see that metric. It's better if you look at this metric. etc.

Inside Lacrosse's Computer ranking has Brunswick at #5. Salisbury at #14! :) It doesn't make sense... But it does. Because we know the metric they're using. https://www.insidelacrosse.com/rec.../h ... ational/19

No metric is perfect. No ranking is perfect. But, again, like financial statements, if we use several and understand why they say what they say, it can be a fantastic tool.

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