HS Boys National and Regional Rankings

[ctbagataway]

Saturday
10am on ESPNU, Haverford vs. Ward Melville
12pm on ESPN3, Darien vs. Seton Hall Prep
2pm on ESPN3, St. Anthony's vs. Lincoln-Sudbury

Sunday
10am on ESPNU, St. Anthony's vs. Darien
12pm on ESPN3, Seton Hall Prep vs. Ward Melville
2pm on ESPN3, Lincoln-Sudbury vs. Haverford

[admin]

I think the best way to evaluate a team is to evaluate data from every performance, not just the best ones.

In theory, I agree. Practically, I do not. Because... teams who beat good teams but also play a lot of weaker teams get punished. e.g. The Culvers of the world. So, for us, we factor in Best Ws and Worst Ls, we factor in Top (# of games changes) Ws and Ls, and... We factor in all games. But the "all games" gets the lowest strength. With this said, our systems are very different than the more Chess-like systems.

That’s two more bad performances than the two teams Hill beat in OT (Calvert Hall and Wick) have combined.

Random, that's where I shrug. I'm not saying your perspective is wrong. I'm just saying, from where I'm sitting, an OT W is a W. I don't like the "Yeah, you beat us but only by 1". Not all teams play to crush the opponent. Teams are down and shift their mindset to, "This game is over, let's get this over with and get ready for our next game." Scores matter. But... I think there's such thing as putting too much emphasis on scores and not enough on simple Ws and Ls.

[admin]

Deerfield is currently the #11 team in the country. (Hill Academy is seemingly gone.) Losses to Brunswick and Torrey Pines. Wins against... you can see it yourself. It doesn't make sense. Where do i see the Points for each game (that you described above)?

Seton Hall Prep is undefeated. beat Delbarton. LaSalle, Malvern, Summit,... Darien. 14-0. And their #21 while... NJ's Ridgewood (9-2) who lost to Mountain Lakes and Ridge, has no quality wins, and is #19. Mountain lakes has no quality wins, lost to Delbarton and they're #15. You have to say, How? And then you look at their game scores (against weak teams) and... I don't know how else.

[admin]

Was that part of the Geico showcase, or is that still forthcoming?

http://geicolax.com/nationals/ May 27-28.

[admin]

HS BOYS: This weekend, McDonogh beat St. Mary's Annapolis, Georgetown Prep beat St. Stephen/St. Agnes, Manhassett beat Garden City (the #34, #40, and #42 Biggest Wins this Season). Computer Rankings and Games Scores updated.

[admin]

HS BOYS: St Stephen/St Agnes (VA) v. Landon (MD), West Genesee (NY) v. Fayetteville-Manlius (NY), Georgetown Prep (MD) v. Bullis (MD), St Paul’s (MD) vs. Calvert Hall (MD), Ridgefield (CT) v. Yorktown (NY).

[admin]

HS BOYS: Yesterday, Archbishop Spalding (MD) beat Boys Latin (MD), the #1 Biggest Upset and #31 Biggest Win, Landon (MD) beat St. Stephen/St. Agnes (VA), the #6 Biggest Upset, Calvert Hall (MD) beat St. Pauls (MD) by 10, the #4 Biggest Win. FanLax Computer Rankings updated.

[admin]

HS BOYS: Yesterday, as expected, Smithtown West (NY) won, Dublin Coffman (OH) won, Brunswick (CT) won, and, not expected, #4 West, Saint Ignatius Prep (CA) beat #1 West, Sacred Heart Prep (CA) and we have a new leader in the West. FanLax Computer Rankings updated.

[grelch]

Undefeated Salisbury beat Haverford and they've dropped below them?

[admin]

In Haverford's most recent game, they beat #20 Ward Melville. In Salisbury's most recent game, they beat winless #2,935 Northfield Mt. Herman. Head-to-head wins are meaningful. Mostly due to the win/loss having double the effect. i.e. One team goes up while the other team goes down. But in terms of being a main driver of a Ranking, you can't do it without having innumerable sets of teams chasing each other's tails.



Bottomline, Haverford added another quality W to their resume and... It moved them ahead of Salisbury.

As an aside, but related to our discussion, though not necessarily related to why Haverford is ahead of Salisbury, Haverford has the #3 strongest SOS (Strength of Schedule) in the nation. Salisbury's is #130.

[3rdPersonPlural]

Bottomline, Haverford added another quality W to their resume and... It moved them ahead of Salisbury.

As an aside, but related to our discussion, though not necessarily related to why Haverford is ahead of Salisbury, Haverford has the #3 strongest SOS (Strength of Schedule) in the nation. Salisbury's is #130.

This is why teams that play in a league that has ancient rivalries (NMH and Kent, for NEWest I) get snookered in this ranking system.

[admin]

they don't have disadvantage. Lots of teams with weaker SOSs within the Rankings. So...
1- A team earns or loses Points based on Ws and Ls. (And Game Scores but we have a different column for that. i.e. It's just for people who see game scores as meaningful.)
2- But McDonogh plays 18 or whatever games while IMG only play 10 or whatever. McDonogh a distinct advantage. So we normalize the points. i.e. We normalize the Points to 10 and then subtract McDonogh's 8 lowest-Point Wins. Much fairer.
3- But then Loyola-Blakefield says, Yeah that's fair for IMG but what about Lambert in GA?! Their SOS is weak enough that they go undefeated, have zero negative Points, slow and steady positive Points and... They come out ahead of us because of it. We're beating and losing to Giants. We're competing for real within the Top 20 and, heck, we may even have more Ls than Ws but... We're still a top team. So, for this scenario, we not only normalize the games (#2, above), but we normalize the Wins. i.e. Lambert has 10 wins against 500-level teams, each worth 50 Points, and zero losses. 500 Points. L-B is playing 1,000-level teams, wins half the games loses the other half and... They also have 500 Points. Doesn't make sense. 2 wins against 500-level teams does not equal 1 win vs. a 1,000 team. the 1,000 team is much more impressive. So we'll normalize the wins to (let's say) 3 wins. Now, L-B has three 100 Points wins for 300 Points while Lambert has three 50 point wins for 150 Points. a better assessment. In other words, as long as Salisbury or whoever has (depending on what the Wins are normalized to) 2-3 good Ws, they're in great shape. and, if they don't have 2-3 quality wins... I'd argue that the issue isn't the Ranking System.

[If_Only]

If only Brennan O'neil was in Bay Shore they would be a top 10 team. Bay Shore Just beat Smithtown West in a well executed game. 7-6

[RumorMill]

they don't have disadvantage. Lots of teams with weaker SOSs within the Rankings. So...
1- A team earns or loses Points based on Ws and Ls. (And Game Scores but we have a different column for that. i.e. It's just for people who see game scores as meaningful.)
2- But McDonogh plays 18 or whatever games while IMG only play 10 or whatever. McDonogh a distinct advantage. So we normalize the points. i.e. We normalize the Points to 10 and then subtract McDonogh's 8 lowest-Point Wins. Much fairer.
3- But then Loyola-Blakefield says, Yeah that's fair for IMG but what about Lambert in GA?! Their SOS is weak enough that they go undefeated, have zero negative Points, slow and steady positive Points and... They come out ahead of us because of it. We're beating and losing to Giants. We're competing for real within the Top 20 and, heck, we may even have more Ls than Ws but... We're still a top team. So, for this scenario, we not only normalize the games (#2, above), but we normalize the Wins. i.e. Lambert has 10 wins against 500-level teams, each worth 50 Points, and zero losses. 500 Points. L-B is playing 1,000-level teams, wins half the games loses the other half and... They also have 500 Points. Doesn't make sense. 2 wins against 500-level teams does not equal 1 win vs. a 1,000 team. the 1,000 team is much more impressive. So we'll normalize the wins to (let's say) 3 wins. Now, L-B has three 100 Points wins for 300 Points while Lambert has three 50 point wins for 150 Points. a better assessment. In other words, as long as Salisbury or whoever has (depending on what the Wins are normalized to) 2-3 good Ws, they're in great shape. and, if they don't have 2-3 quality wins... I'd argue that the issue isn't the Ranking System.

Wow! This is long, therefore lost me a bit (sorry)... and at the end contradictory (to me). Salisbury DOES have 2 good wins. Haverford and GP... and they're undefeated... yet ranked below Haverford?... and the rest of the top 9.

But then again, I'm a NEW1 fan, so therefore biased. Some good games this week which should start separating things.

[admin]

Salisbury DOES have 2 good wins. Haverford and GP... and they're undefeated... yet ranked below Haverford?... and the rest of the top 9.

Currently the Wins are normalized to 3 (I think). Without a promise, we'll try to do the wins normalized to 2 as well as 3 tomorrow. with 2, Salisbury should move up.

[admin]

Chaminade (NY) beat Manhasset (NY), the 3rd Biggest HS Boys Win this season, Loyola-Blakefield (MD) beat St. Pauls (MD), St. Anthony's (NY) beat Haverford School (PA), and... We've updated the Computer Rankings.

[wahoomurf]

If only Brennan O'neil was in Bay Shore they would be a top 10 team. Bay Shore Just beat Smithtown West in a well executed game. 7-6

[admin]

st. stephen st. agnes beat G'town Prep 14-11.

[wahoomurf]

Yet another H.S. Ranking SWAG.After,all beauty is in the eye of the beholder or the location of the "ranker".

https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/high-scho ... nal-top-25

[admin]

HS Boys: May 10th and... National and Regional Rankings updated.