D1 Men Rankings

D1 Mens Lacrosse
Farfromgeneva
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by Farfromgeneva »

10stone5 wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:48 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:54 pm Maybe but the air is coming out of the Silicon Valley bubble every day.
No its not, I’m right here.
We could run 24/7 and we’d still be behind.
So is my sister and I see biz plans 4x/mo out of there. Quality is way down which is what you see at the end of other markets like High Yield. The ABX (housing bond credit insurance instrument trading daily) was taking Tyson shots in early 2017, 18mo before the economy crashed (ironically in a market, housing, “that never went down”).

WG, you don’t want bloat and a half processed meal in the stomach on feast day!
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Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
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Wheels
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by Wheels »

44WeWantMore wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:58 am
I am certain that ND (and probably UT, UM, and a handful of others) are profitable on a strict accounting basis, and I have heard that ND football gives money back to the University as well as funding their entire Athletic Department (not sure if that includes club and intramural sports).

I also read an analysis that Maryland football loses money, but I wonder about how they do cost accounting. Years ago, I knew a little something about how grant money flowed into JHU, and a shocking proportion of grant money was absorbed by indirect costs allocated to the grant, so I do not know if indirect university costs were also allocated to the Maryland football program in their calculations. But separately from the direct profitability of big-time sports, how much of an impact do they have on donations? On the JHU thread, I read that Mayor Mike will give for anything except for athletics, but I suspect that at Maryland, the Under Armour guy is at least engaged with athletics, and that some of that engagement is probably working its way into fixed assets or the endowment.

Completely separate from your point about FBS schools, I have read that a few small D-3 schools are bringing football back to increase their tuition-paying enrollment.
B1G money has made a true accounting of Maryland football's profitability, or lack thereof, difficult. If you looked at gate receipts, sponsorships, merchandise, and licensing off of football, there's no way the program is profitable. It wouldn't be close. The basketball program probably is profitable. The B1G payouts make Maryland's athletic department a break even proposition at this point (front-loaded conference payout, full share due in 2021 or 2022...can't recall the exact year). Once Maryland gets their full share of B1G money, the athletic department will be profitable on the whole. The other missing piece of revenue is student fees. Not all schools charge a student fee for athletics (nominally to pay for their "free tickets" to games), but Maryland still charges student fees that directly support athletics. If you check out the USA Today link below, you'll see a % allocated. That's student fees, or the percent of an AD's budget that is subsidized by the university. Almost every D1 school their athletic department budgets (and revenues) completely walled off from the general university. While athletic departments can give money to the general university, it's typically the other way around...often labeled as a "loan" from the university's operating fund to the athletic department.

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances
runrussellrun
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by runrussellrun »

Drcthru wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:13 pm
runrussellrun wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:18 pm
LaxOverBaseball wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:32 pm Is it whining if it’s true.

Let there be no doubt that Title IX has limited the growth of D1 Men’s Lacrosse. Adding a large number of male scholarships has been near impossible especially for universities with football teams. Dropping men’s sports has been one method (Richmond dropped Soccer. BU dropped Wrestling.) Another method is to add more Women’s sports. Both of these “answers” were needed because of Title IX.

You can not like the whining, but can’t deny the facts.
There has never, I repeat, never been a title IX lawsuit for a school adding a program. Remember title nine has a do with opportunity in all things not just Sports
I can tell you right now no lawsuit would ever see a quart room because a Pac-10 team added men’s lacrosse, or an SEC conference grew up it just would never happen

Not one of these colleges could pass a real genuine equality audit they know it you know it and I know it so to blame title nine is a joke is just lazy boring athletic directors alumni and administration people.
Is a "quart room" two pint rooms or 1/4 of a gallon room? :lol:
not my fault the talk text-type , said with a southern drawl Boston accent......comes out this way. :)

Asked many times before, and will ask again. What lawsuit was EVAH put into motion against a college for ADDING a sport. NitME lions added mens ICE hockey.......nothing. So, speaking of Yukon cornelias' favorite phrase, send one along (lawsuit) that specifically does. In the past, lawsuits that actually were enforcing the law because things were " taking things AWAY ", is all that was sent.

How's that Providence win over Marquette look now, down in Durham today ? Or your holiday brunch ? . Unless the coaching friends decided to artificially make the game close.
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Cooter
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by Cooter »

After a season of disorder, this week followed order pretty closely. So there probably won't be too much change in the rankings.
OSU lost, but to #2 UMd in overtime. Overall, I though OSU looked pretty good against UMd, but perhaps they will drop 2 or 3 sports.

Will the points for Duke's #3 position get reduced due to the overtime win over Marquette?
I wasn't really that sure that Duke should have jumped Yale in the first place.

Hopkins?
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by admin »

D1 MEN: Maryland beat Ohio State (#23 Big Win in 2019), Loyola beat Army, Penn State beat Johns Hopkins, Towson beat Delaware, Notre Dame beat UNC, and the FanLax Computer Rankings have been updated.
Cooter
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by Cooter »

1 more coach voted this week. OSU dropped 3 spots, due to their ot loss to #2 UMd. Syracuse jumped over Loyola. Duke appears to have improved their hold on #3 point-wise with their ot win over Marquette. Hopkins barely stayed in the top 20.
Coaches Poll 4/22
1 Penn State (20) 400 11-1 1
2 Maryland 371 11-2 2
3 Duke 358 11-3 3
4 Yale 332 9-2 4
5 Penn 323 8-3 5
6 Virginia 292 11-3 6
7 Syracuse 270 9-3 9
8 Loyola Maryland 269 10-3 8
9 Cornell 231 9-4 10
10 Ohio State 230 8-3 7
11 Notre Dame 193 7-5 11
12 Denver 166 8-4 12
13 Towson 158 8-4 13
14 High Point 145 11-2 13
15 Massachusetts 132 9-4 15
16 Boston University 98 10-4 18
17 Villanova 61 8-5 20
18 Army West Point 53 9-4 17
19 Georgetown 50 10-4 19
20 Johns Hopkins 22 6-6 16
20 Rutgers 22 7-6 NR

Others receiving votes: Delaware, North Carolina, Air Force, Hobart, Princeton

Some rather large differences with the RPI rankings, RPI ranks
Loyola #5
Yale #7
Villanova #12
Cornell #13
High Point #22
UMass #21
Hopkins #14
Do you really want to be using RPI for NCAA selection?
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thetruth
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by thetruth »

I would not want to play PSU, Maryland, Penn or Syracuse right now.
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by Big Dog »

Do you really want to be using RPI for NCAA selection?
yes, it should be a factor. A 2-3 spot differential is just noise.

OTOH, I have no doubt that Hopkins and Rutgers would beat the teams ranked 3-5 spots ahead. ahead. As a relative newbie, HP gets lotsa love from coaches, but can they hold up this late in the season to the BlG or ACC? Highly unlikely (except perhaps Michigan).
rasheed
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by rasheed »

how in God's name is Notre Dame ranked ahead of Virginia?
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by DocBarrister »

Question:
rasheed wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:39 pm how in God's name is Notre Dame ranked ahead of Virginia?
Answer: God.

DocBarrister 8-)
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10stone5
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by 10stone5 »

rasheed wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:39 pm how in God's name is Notre Dame ranked ahead of Virginia?
They shouldn’t be :(

Even though UVA no longer treks to Philly, no reason you can’t still trek to Dirty Frank’s bar and grill, Rasheed !

I went back for a reunion, tried to talk my wife into going to all those dive places, but she refused, next time.
Last edited by 10stone5 on Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

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Rasheed, my friend, happy to answer your rhetorical question. And, first, let me say that the Rankings are based on performance in 2019 (based on each team's Best 10 games and 5 Best Wins), not how teams performed historically nor projections of how teams will perform in the rest of 2019. And, with that said, Notre Dame is #6 and UVA is #7 and...

Notre Dame has wins over UMd, SU, Denver, UNC, and Detroit Mercy. Starts strong, becomes relatively weak as we move to win #5. In terms of losses, ND has 5, 4 that are relatively painless and 1 that hurts: Richmond.

UVA has wins over SU, Notre Dame, JHU, UNC, P'ton. UVA has 3 losses, 1 that's painless, one hurts a bit more, Loyola, and 1 hurts more, High Point.

So, ND's Ws are better, ND's losses are worse, and, on balance, though only by 5 Points, ND comes out ahead.
Mr3Putt
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by Mr3Putt »

UNC , Detroit Mercy, Princeton mentions are placebos.
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by runrussellrun »

admin wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:07 pm Rasheed, my friend, happy to answer your rhetorical question. And, first, let me say that the Rankings are based on performance in 2019 (based on each team's Best 10 games and 5 Best Wins), not how teams performed historically nor projections of how teams will perform in the rest of 2019. And, with that said, Notre Dame is #6 and UVA is #7 and...

Notre Dame has wins over UMd, SU, Denver, UNC, and Detroit Mercy. Starts strong, becomes relatively weak as we move to win #5. In terms of losses, ND has 5, 4 that are relatively painless and 1 that hurts: Richmond.

UVA has wins over SU, Notre Dame, JHU, UNC, P'ton. UVA has 3 losses, 1 that's painless, one hurts a bit more, Loyola, and 1 hurts more, High Point.

So, ND's Ws are better, ND's losses are worse, and, on balance, though only by 5 Points, ND comes out ahead.
Isn't your ranking system based EXACTLY on that? History, or certainly last years performance? Or, did all team start out with the same "ante" points?
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

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All teams start where they finished in 2018. And after every game, their Starting Points are recalibrated. After the 5th game of the season, 2018 is 100% in the rear view mirror and every team is 100% in 2019.
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by runrussellrun »

admin wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:43 am All teams start where they finished in 2018. And after every game, their Starting Points are recalibrated. After the 5th game of the season, 2018 is 100% in the rear view mirror and every team is 100% in 2019.
So that's a yes. History matters. How would it look if everyone started with 500 or 666 ante points?
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

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You can never 100% get rid of the 2018 (and all previous years for that matter because 2018 was influenced by 2017 which was influenced by...) numbers but, by re-doing the Starting Points after every game, the remnants of 2018 become very small.

If everyone started on the same starting line (which would make life much easier), Winning percentage (and some randomness because of this winning percentage) would drive the rankings. With the HS, D3, and MCLA teams, this would be an absolute mess. But for d1 men, it'd just mean that teams with a weaker SOS would have a distinct advantage. So UMD goes 5-0 vs. top teams and Siena goes 6-0 vs. low-to-mid-tier teams and... Siena is #1 in the nation. So you do same starting line (which is, for all intents and purposes, Winning Percentage) and SOS and it's better but proves to be a very imperfect science. Too general, too difficult to calibrate.
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by runrussellrun »

admin wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:11 pm You can never 100% get rid of the 2018 (and all previous years for that matter because 2018 was influenced by 2017 which was influenced by...) numbers but, by re-doing the Starting Points after every game, the remnants of 2018 become very small.

If everyone started on the same starting line (which would make life much easier), Winning percentage (and some randomness because of this winning percentage) would drive the rankings. With the HS, D3, and MCLA teams, this would be an absolute mess. But for d1 men, it'd just mean that teams with a weaker SOS would have a distinct advantage. So UMD goes 5-0 vs. top teams and Siena goes 6-0 vs. low-to-mid-tier teams and... Siena is #1 in the nation. So you do same starting line (which is, for all intents and purposes, Winning Percentage) and SOS and it's better but proves to be a very imperfect science. Too general, too difficult to calibrate.
But Siena was never 6-0, but OSU was. And, the same "mid tier" rationale was made for NOT ranking them high..... Speaking of mid tier, Terps WERE 5-0....and pretty sure the teams they beat are ranked in the mids.... I mean, your 9th ranked team (ante) was Bucknell, a team that didn't even make the N$aa's last season. So who did Maryland beat to go 5-0? (you,collective, not me )

At some point, WINNING percentage has to matter the most. What WOULD have been the harm in inviting BUcknell, instead of, say, Hopkins. Would Bucknell lose by 13 :lol: flaw......meet ED.
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

Post by youthathletics »

runrussellrun wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:17 am
admin wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:43 am All teams start where they finished in 2018. And after every game, their Starting Points are recalibrated. After the 5th game of the season, 2018 is 100% in the rear view mirror and every team is 100% in 2019.
So that's a yes. History matters. How would it look if everyone started with 500 or 666 ante points?
I like that as well, especially for college sports, when the turnover of players changes each year.
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Re: D1 Men Rankings

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runrussellrun wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:34 pm
admin wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:11 pm You can never 100% get rid of the 2018 (and all previous years for that matter because 2018 was influenced by 2017 which was influenced by...) numbers but, by re-doing the Starting Points after every game, the remnants of 2018 become very small.

If everyone started on the same starting line (which would make life much easier), Winning percentage (and some randomness because of this winning percentage) would drive the rankings. With the HS, D3, and MCLA teams, this would be an absolute mess. But for d1 men, it'd just mean that teams with a weaker SOS would have a distinct advantage. So UMD goes 5-0 vs. top teams and Siena goes 6-0 vs. low-to-mid-tier teams and... Siena is #1 in the nation. So you do same starting line (which is, for all intents and purposes, Winning Percentage) and SOS and it's better but proves to be a very imperfect science. Too general, too difficult to calibrate.
But Siena was never 6-0, but OSU was. And, the same "mid tier" rationale was made for NOT ranking them high..... Speaking of mid tier, Terps WERE 5-0....and pretty sure the teams they beat are ranked in the mids.... I mean, your 9th ranked team (ante) was Bucknell, a team that didn't even make the N$aa's last season. So who did Maryland beat to go 5-0? (you,collective, not me )

At some point, WINNING percentage has to matter the most. What WOULD have been the harm in inviting BUcknell, instead of, say, Hopkins. Would Bucknell lose by 13 :lol: flaw......meet ED.
Russell, correct. Siena was never 6-0. I was making up an example to answer your "what would happen if" question.
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