Navy 2022

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WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus »

laxxygilmore wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 1:29 pm
WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 2:06 pm
oldjayfan wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 10:51 am
WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 6:05 am
HealthyDebate wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 6:31 pm Oldjayfan, not sure what the axe to grind is with the young Gren navy defense. There are a lot of things to improve on and they will. Interesting that until recently you never posted on this thread. Wonder why that is.
Because he’s a jerk?

He just joined on May 3rd. My guess is the poster is a sock puppet of some other poster.

You stay classy Wombat; sorry my life hasn't revolved around sitting in a basement and posting on lacrosse message boards for years!
Healthydebate-- I have no axe to grind with the young D, it's simply that Coach Wellner is praised on this site as some type of defensive guru, yet
RS is given no slack for having a young offense. If you have read this board over the years, the personal attacks on RS were beyond ridiculous. RS
is an excellent coach, Navy is a tough place to recruit strong offensive talent(that is why many, many recruits have been poached). Wellner was
hired by RS many years ago and he is a good coach. But when the defense had troubles this year, didn't read any complaints about Wellner not "making adjustments" or "body language". Stick around and you will read some real mature comments from the various geniuses that think they own a free speech board... Oh, and don't dissent, lest you be a "jerk" or "sock puppet"...
You just seem to have a laser-like focus on poking at people and are defending to the point of dying on the last hill.

It’s not worth it, man. Give it up!

The future is here. Hopefully it will turn the corner.
WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 4:59 pm
oldjayfan wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 2:30 pm Ah for short-memories! Nothing to "give up"...here's hoping Navy can get back to the quarters in the next decade! Just find it hypocritical that RS was criticized to the enth degree, yet people are clamoring for his longtime assistant to get the gig...I suppose that's how it rolls. Carry on!

Sorry, Wombat, never got the memo that I answer to you. In fact, I won't ;)
I wouldn’t want you to answer to me.

But, you just did.
"WOMBATMAN"...laser guided indeed.
Image
Sometimes, with Directed Energy, it’s just TOO easy.

Image

WomCAT in action. It’s like an easy shooting gallery.

Target rich environment.

Pew! Pew!
laxpere
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by laxpere »

LandM wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 1:05 pm Never set anyone up for failure. That happened here no matter who was going to take the job. I hope ALL can agree that it was poorly handled BUT RS is a big boy and got paid - capitalism is a great thing so no begrudging his salary;

Air Force, football, I understand the Academy and what it takes to compete as a D1 athlete in that environment.

Son played at SBU, red-shirted a year, went to every game. Funny what many of you think happened. You were not there and did not live the experience.....apologizes to anyone who may have been with me. Tiffany and RS - way separate styles.....different coaches and different personality. Never spoke to RS not my place as a parent to do so. I could casually bump into him and never know who he was nor him me. If that philosophy moved to USNA, it will not work.....the institutions (SA) not wired that way.

Wellner is a good person and I hope he gets his chance - well deserved and I hope Rob can help him succeed.
Excellent points:
Coach Sowell had a tough stepping into the "Hornet's Nest" as anyone who dared follow the wronged beloved coach was doomed to fail. He was well compensated for that risk and capitalism is great. He did his best, but the results weren't strong enough to overcome the resistance. I wouldn't be surprised if he lands at another top program. Best wishes to him!

To compete as a D1 athlete and at USNA, what does it take for your perspective? You did it at Air Force and your son also competed athletically at the same level.
What do you think are a couple of the most essential traits? Any major differences for USNA recruits?
Also, do you see anything that the Lady Mids do that could be adopted by the Men Mids?

Transferring the "hands off" style from SBU to USNA didn't work. Why? Because of the the parents or the administrators?
I believe that most parents think that college is the time for your son to step up and fend for himself. Not the case at USNA?
Isn't there is more limited communication out of USNA too due to the rigors of the daily schedule?
I would think that the aloof style would work better at USNA than SBU since very few parents would have the temerity to question the chain of command or coaching decisions there versus elsewhere.

I whole heartedly agree that Coach Wellner is a good person. I hope that he has earned serious consideration as head coach and asking Coach Camposa to help him succeed would be another twofer.

Thanks in advance.

Go Navy Lacrosse v.2020!
“The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall.” Vince Lombardi
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are...." John Wooden
HealthyDebate
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by HealthyDebate »

My vision for Navy v.2020- the next chapter.
RW HC
Hire one of the bright offensive minds in the game who can relate to the players and is a good person (first and foremost!) (Phipps!!/Poillion/March etc) and let them do their thing.
Keep RC (continuity)

Play fast and push the pace.
Take the next step in Embracing the alumni and continue to push the envelope in recruiting. RW is extremely well respected by HS and CLub coaches, he is everywhere (I personally see him everywhere!) and utilize the men in the lockerroom.
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youthathletics
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by youthathletics »

HealthyDebate wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 6:41 am My vision for Navy v.2020- the next chapter.
RW HC
Hire one of the bright offensive minds in the game who can relate to the players and is a good person (first and foremost!) (Phipps!!/Poillion/March etc) and let them do their thing.
Keep RC (continuity)

Play fast and push the pace.
Take the next step in Embracing the alumni and continue to push the envelope in recruiting. RW is extremely well respected by HS and CLub coaches, he is everywhere (I personally see him everywhere!) and utilize the men in the lockerroom.
:D
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
laxxygilmore
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by laxxygilmore »

Tecumseh wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 2:29 pm
youthathletics wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 2:08 pm
oldjayfan wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 1:39 pm Still laughing over the Rambo, Heacock, Kelly, Bernhardt, Rotanz comparison to the Navy O...WOW! Tillman sure took a huge gamble turning the offense over to those neophytes! Next year the new Navy coach can unleash the supposed offensive weapons--oh, and the depth we keep hearing about--and light up the scoreboard. I would bet it's still a race to get to 10 goals...Army beat Loyola by scoring 7!! Maybe it'll be a race to see who can hold the team to 5 goals against!! IMHO, Navy will continue to struggle as the PL as improved immensely in the last 7 or so years...
Your reading comprehension is quite poor oldjayfan, You clearly are losing it. Maybe we should we call you fattylax, laxwheatfield, or RRR from now on. :lol: ;)
+1 Youth :lol:

BOOM :shock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_P7nUEjF48 :mrgreen:

Fore

"T"
+1. More "laser" like strikes. :shock:
NElaxtalent
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by NElaxtalent »

USNA's 2020 recruiting class, in particular, is stellar (Top 5?). If it's not Wellner, how much of that class do they hold on to? Esp with USMA winning the PL tourney & USAFA posting a solid season.
oldjayfan
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by oldjayfan »

I hope RW gets the job, but why would Chet hire RS's 12 year assistant? If RS was that bad, does it make sense to hire his right hand man? IMHO, Tillman and/or Toomey will laugh when/if Chet calls. Ryan Moran has UMBC coming from out of nowhere into the NCAA and he just beat Marist. Don't envision Chet hiring an assistant coach unless it's a "big name" like Gerry Byrne, Lelan Rogers, Matt Danowski type of star power. Chet will want to make a splash, RW won't accomplish that. This is not an indictment of RW!! Just saying that you don't fire 2 proven HC's and go with an assistant who has never been a HC. Maybe Chet will prove me wrong, but I'm open to taking wagers :D
WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus »

I’ve got the feeling you have no prospects of being RW’s financial advisor. Thus are against him? No skin in the game?

Pew! Pew!
LandM
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by LandM »

OldJay,
I will take your bet. I just put a clean, crisp $1 on my table, full disclosure I am heading back from our house in CO to our house in NY but I will find a table to keep it on - lets play "Trading Places" - if I lose I will meet you wherever, and give you that clean crisp $1. You lose, I get to do the same. Tell me when you want to shake.

Laxpere:
RS will be just fine......unfortunately just the shock of what happened.

When I was at the Academy, we had guys wondering around wearing patches on their athletic jackets, saying, "best in the west". A cadet in my squadron, had this club in his hands twirling it around with a ball in it with the "best in the west" patch. I usually ran into him on my way to the field house and after dinner. We usually laughed at those guys as it was a club sport. That guy became Admiral Scott Moore, I suggest you google him if you want the details. That is the guy a SA wants - chip on the shoulder, some brass where it matters, and is a teammate not an individual.

I do not think there is a difference between a SA parent and a parent. Parents want their kids to be successful. Some parents go a bit overboard, some like myself said, hey I figured it out, you can to.

Here is hoping that I win my $1 bet:)

Here is also hoping that Army kicks it
oldjayfan
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by oldjayfan »

You're on! I have a summer home in NY as well, I'll buy the first round and gloat over winning the dollar!
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old salt
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by old salt »

The best hire Chet ever made was to promote a proven assistant, who was already in place & well regarded around The Yard.

He can probably get RW for a short term contract, give him a shot, then extend if the results are promising.

Low risk. High potential reward. It's been 8 years, it's worth investing another year or two.

Let the players have a voice. See how they respond & what potential RW's new recruits bring,

Reppert will probably still be available in a couple years.
See if Jon Birsner keeps making progress at VMI.
laxxygilmore
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by laxxygilmore »

naptownshark wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 9:29 am I have been a longtime reader of this thread and mostly read to see whats going on with the program and how the fans have been reacting.
I also noticed that oldjay is quite a supporter of RS and dislikes RW quite a bit. Here's some NCAA Stats
2012-
O - 39th @ 9.08 g/gm
D - 14th @ 8.92 g/gm

2013
O - 58th @ 7.92 g/gm
D - 32nd @ 10.32 g/gm

2014
O - 51st @ 8.93 g/gm
D - 20th @ 9.36 g/gm

2015
O - 38th @ 9.79 g/gm
D - 13 @ 8.57 g/gm

2016
O - 33rd @ 9.88 g/gm
D - 2nd @ 7.38 g/gm

2017
O - 47th @ 9.43 g/gm
D - 22nd @ 9.57 g/gm

2018
O - 48th @ 9.0 g/gm
D - 15th @8.93 g/gm

2019
O - 48th @ 10.62 g/gm
D - 51st @ 12.08 g/gm


So yes, statistically the defense has been significantly better than the offensive side of the ball. ONE year the defense was worse and you are just going to bash RW for it? How about the previous years were the O was complete garbage? How about the multiple years RS went on record to tell media that it was the most talent on the offensive side of the ball he's had and still couldn't produce?

Let me be clear. I like RS and RW both a lot. Both of them are great guys and good leaders but to sit here and bash RW, oldjay, after one bad year is a little telling which side you're on. RS came into a difficult situation after Meade was fired and it was unfair but knowing some alums he also didn't help his cause too much either.

I think a lot of people's frustration came with RS not ever being willing to give up the O to capable OC's that have come and gone. The mainstay of Navy Lacrosse has always been D and RW would be a fantastic head coach. He knows these kids, knows the academy and would be a great fit. All I'm hoping for as a fan is to see Navy Lacrosse come back to play how they used to in the 2000's.

Sorry for the rant but the past two pages made me really puzzled.

BEATarmy!
2019 NCAAT opening weekend with the 16 RD1 teams with an avg. games W-L @ 10.6 - 4.5/.702 in 2019, resulted in an avg. score of 16.6 - 11.2, or +5.4g difference for all 8 games, staying true to NCAAT's over the past decade and illustrates the comparative shortfall for relative stats during the Coach Sowell Navy MLax era 2012-2019 @ 54-56/.490 with avg. scoring O @ 9.33 and scoring D @ 9.39...the Navy D has indeed been quite reliable during that 8 seasons time period under Coach Wellner - can't honestly say the same for Coach Sowell's O model, especially vs. Top 30 teams.
Last edited by laxxygilmore on Mon May 13, 2019 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
laxxygilmore
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by laxxygilmore »

youthathletics wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 8:03 am
HealthyDebate wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 6:41 am My vision for Navy v.2020- the next chapter.
RW HC
Hire one of the bright offensive minds in the game who can relate to the players and is a good person (first and foremost!) (Phipps!!/Poillion/March etc) and let them do their thing.
Keep RC (continuity)

Play fast and push the pace.
Take the next step in Embracing the alumni and continue to push the envelope in recruiting. RW is extremely well respected by HS and CLub coaches, he is everywhere (I personally see him everywhere!) and utilize the men in the lockerroom.
:D

Sound O advice from youthathletics continues to be echoed. +1
oldjayfan
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by oldjayfan »

Yes! Pushing the pace is sound O advice indeed. I mean, it's not as if Navy committed a lot of turnovers playing patiently...er wait, nevermind! :lol:
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youthathletics
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by youthathletics »

Stress is a bad thing, in our lives and on the playing field. When the other team knows what you are doing on a regular basis, you get backed into a corner. Couple that with being anxious about the 80 second clock AFTER you just wasted 30-40 of it subbing, and you have a recipe for playing quite tightly.

Turnovers by team A handful separate the majority of teams in NCAA. And if the average that every 3-5 possessions equals a goal, those couple/few avg. are quite significant in close games.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
laxxygilmore
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by laxxygilmore »

+1. Valid point indeed.
laxxygilmore
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by laxxygilmore »

laxxygilmore wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:02 am
WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:56 am
youthathletics wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:32 am Agreed Healthy. Better conversation over some beers.

We are playing with house money vs. Cuse. No need to try and jam that square peg in the round hole this Saturday, aaa'gain. If I were Coach, this week would be all about "change".
You’re leaving out “hope”?
Nope, "hope", apparently is still part of Coach Sowell's Seven+ Season Sustainable Success System...
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/lacr ... story.html
“At the end of the day, that’s the $1 million question: how do you clean it up?” Sowell asked rhetorically. “It’s one of these things. We’re going to keep working on it. We’re doing a bunch of stickwork and just hope that at some point, it goes away. That’s all we can do.”
I like the chances that the Mids could pull off another upset of Syracuse for a second year in a row. It could be a head to head D contest this time between Coach Ryan Wellner's D and Coach Lelan Roger's D. Should be a good one....I hope.

Mids 9 - Orange 8
I was way off on that 9-8 Navy W prediction with it actually being an 18-9 W for Syracuse. But the Navy TO's were only 12...maybe "hope" helped for that game.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/lacrosse-blog/
“At the end of the day, that’s the $1 million question: how do you clean it up?” Sowell asked rhetorically. “It’s one of these things. We’re going to keep working on it. We’re doing a bunch of stickwork and just hope that at some point, it goes away. That’s all we can do.”
An interesting statement above. Consider the following…

Under Coach Sowell, Navy’s 110 games from 2012 to 2019 have tallied 1,666 TO’s or 15.1 to/gm avg. over 8 seasons, with a low in 2016 @ 13.3 to/gm and a high @ 17.7 to/gm in 2019.

Also under Coach Sowell prior to his tenure at Navy, SBU’s 46 games from 2008 to 2010 tallied 906 TO’s or 19.7 to/gm avg. (Stats for 2007 & 2011 n/a on SBU website).

So, connecting the TO dots over the past 11+ seasons, or at least 11+ of 13 under Coach Sowell at SBU and Navy, looks like 2,572 TO’s in 156 games over 11+ of 13 seasons from 2007 – 2019 (excluding 2007 & 2011), or an average of 16.5 to/gm.
oldjayfan
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by oldjayfan »

You beat me to the punch, was gonna ask what the SBU t/o average when RS coached there... RS loved to run-and-gun then, why did he essentially choose stall ball at Navy?
kramerica.inc
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by kramerica.inc »

RS loved to run-and-gun then, why did he essentially choose stall ball at Navy?
The same reason RM did. Lack of talent depth. Shorten the game, make it closer, and cross your fingers.
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youthathletics
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by youthathletics »

kramerica.inc wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 4:34 pm
RS loved to run-and-gun then, why did he essentially choose stall ball at Navy?
The same reason RM did. Lack of talent depth. Shorten the game, make it closer, and cross your fingers.
....and the same reason Tillman did early in his career, who was a root off the ole' Navy RM Coaching tree. Until he finally loosened up and listened to his players...within reason of course. And this is not exclusive to just MLAX. Same reason why Navy Football and SA's run the triple option.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
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