THE 2019 Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

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DocBarrister
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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by DocBarrister »

Sounds like Jackson Morrill might have come to Hopkins were it not for a great pitch by Shay and the presence of Shack Stanwick at Hopkins. Morrill wanted to play right away, and Shack stood in the way.

https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/college/m ... c-families

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51percentcorn
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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by 51percentcorn »

It's absurd to argue that the bad calls evened themselves out or that Maryland would have won had the Kraus goal had been ruled correctly to have hit the post. I am not a huge proponent of instant replay to fix everything - but goals in lacrosse appear to me to be one that is easily subject to review and the technology is there - especially in the tournament. You will never solve the dive towards/away from the goalmouth or being pushed issue - even while watching super slo mo I can't figure out what the right call is - there's so much judgement and people can see different things. I happen to come across a few minutes of MD/Denver women's quarterfinal. There was a play where a Lady Terp appeared to pick a loose ball out of the crease - without making contact with the Goalie - and bounce it home. Apparently - that's a no no in women's lacrosse. Dixon and Stanwick Burch were looking at the same plays in slo mo and they couldn't agree on anything.
viper
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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by viper »

QuakerSouth wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 9:16 am No, thats not what I am saying at all. If it is determined that it is time to move on, so be it. What I am saying is Hopkins, despite what the fanbase thinks, has had a pretty good run over the last 10 years. To think that changing coaches will yield better results than you've had is difficult to imagine.
I wonder how many folks said the same thing about getting rid of Starsia at UVA. They seem to be bouncing back rather quickly under Tiffany.
viper
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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by viper »

DMac wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 1:24 pm
seacoaster wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 10:42 am
44WeWantMore wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 9:20 am
DougELax wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 7:29 am
QuakerSouth wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 7:17 pm I think you might find that replacing Petro isn't going to yield better results than you've had over the last 10 years. Hopkins has made the tourney how many years in the last 10? How may Quarters? A Final? If you think you "deserve" more, well......

Someone said on here they want Hopkins to be competitive---like either final 8 or final 4 every year. That is unrealistic. UMD doing what they are doing is amazing. Being competitive and being amazing are not the same thing. This isn't 50 yrs ago, 40 yrs ago, even 30 yrs ago. To think a team can get back to those types of winning seasons is fantasy.

Lots of good points here about Hopkins ability to still recruit good players. Thats true. You'll get your share of good guys. But no more than your fair share.

Petro is not perfect; nobody is. But if you think getting rid of him will all of a sudden change your fortunes, I think you could be in for a rude awakening. Be careful what you wish for.
So Maryland shouldn't have moved on from Cottle? Virginia from Starsia? Navy from Meade (oh wait)? While the message might not get as stale as long-term professional coaches since the kids rotate thru every four years, still a group on this board think that the coaches seem to be on auto-pilot. There have been years of questioning the use (or lack thereof) of bench strength, the construction of the roster (lack of mid-field depth for example) and the development of players over their four years.
Free the Wombat! page count
Grumpy Cat Dies at 7 Years Old
Grumpy Cat obituary. Now that is some serious page count padding. At this point, the question is: will it require Regime Change to get us to 200 pages, or can we get it done without the bloodletting. DMac, when you're out of the Penalty Box, jump in here!!
Seven is mighty young for a cat to die, take note Hop fans. All your miserableness isn't good for your health...and whatever you do, don't listen to the voice of reason that QuakerSouth and notentitled bring.
Thanks for the invite, sc.
Take it from my personal family experience DMac....the more crotchety one is the longer they live. :?
steel_hop
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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by steel_hop »

viper wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 8:47 am
QuakerSouth wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 9:16 am No, thats not what I am saying at all. If it is determined that it is time to move on, so be it. What I am saying is Hopkins, despite what the fanbase thinks, has had a pretty good run over the last 10 years. To think that changing coaches will yield better results than you've had is difficult to imagine.
I wonder how many folks said the same thing about getting rid of Starsia at UVA. They seem to be bouncing back rather quickly under Tiffany.
Exactly. You can be afraid the results are going to get worse because, and this is the more likely outcome, it gets better. It is the same trap that Petro falls into on player personnel. If I put in X or Y and they do worse, that makes the situation worse. But, as we saw with Zinn and others it got better. How mu h better would have Zinn or Gianclone be if they had seen more time earlier in the year and for Gianclone any time.

Not making a decision because of fear of a bad future result leads to stasis and utter apathy on the part of the program and its supporters.

Lastly, honestly, it cant get much worse than 1 final four in a decade.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

51percentcorn wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 8:04 am It's absurd to argue that the bad calls evened themselves out or that Maryland would have won had the Kraus goal had been ruled correctly to have hit the post. I am not a huge proponent of instant replay to fix everything - but goals in lacrosse appear to me to be one that is easily subject to review and the technology is there - especially in the tournament. You will never solve the dive towards/away from the goalmouth or being pushed issue - even while watching super slo mo I can't figure out what the right call is - there's so much judgement and people can see different things. I happen to come across a few minutes of MD/Denver women's quarterfinal. There was a play where a Lady Terp appeared to pick a loose ball out of the crease - without making contact with the Goalie - and bounce it home. Apparently - that's a no no in women's lacrosse. Dixon and Stanwick Burch were looking at the same plays in slo mo and they couldn't agree on anything.
I think that's right, as to 'absurd' to argue that one or another team would have won if one, two, three, four, whatever number of calls had been made 'correctly'. Calls get made all the time that are subjective in nature. Refs simply miss some, sometimes they see the action differently, sometimes they are flat wrong. But mostly it's subjective, though often a slow mo review would reveal the call was incorrect. Was that a push or a trip? Was it a high hit or clean? releasable or unreleasable? Who was actually closer to the shot ball went it went out? Change of possessions, penalties, all can impact the outcome. And there are many such in any given contest.

I also agree that the dive rule may be the most subject to miscall; it's also ridiculous that a penalty can be called on a goalie, who moves toward the diving player, to try to defend the goal. Inside the crease.

But I think instant replay would be disastrous for the game. Use film to review and improve referee performance, for sure. But don't slow down games.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

On the Hopkins coaching question, I think it comes down to a judgement, from inside the program, as to whether a regime change would fundamentally refresh the program, provide new energy or, alternatively, no more ER is going to provide a better total mix of player talent and eventual performance.

There's an intriguing argument that a lot of mistakes were made in the rush to go younger and younger with a larger and larger proportion of each class and that the next few classes will have a different result, so 'be patient'.

On the other hand...

I don't think the sorts of 'culture' issues that contributed to the move at UVA are as acute at Hop. But there is indeed a challenge for any longstanding coaching regime, that has had less success than when they were at their peak, to change the perception of trajectory of the program.
WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus
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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus »

A lot of folks who are arguing for no coaching changes are decidedly not Hopkins fans.

Don’t make a change, stay right where you are! Mediocre!

Reminds me of:
PleaseDontThrowMeIntoTheBriarPatch
PleaseDontThrowMeIntoTheBriarPatch
E4812442-5F14-4977-BCA6-FDCF0D084B94.jpeg (132.94 KiB) Viewed 3565 times
DMac
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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by DMac »

51percentcorn wrote
There was a play where a Lady Terp appeared to pick a loose ball out of the crease - without making contact with the Goalie - and bounce it home. Apparently - that's a no no in women's lacrosse. Dixon and Stanwick Burch were looking at the same plays in slo mo and they couldn't agree on anything.
Saw this too, very interesting particularly when when relating it to an eye witness in the court room.
Dixon and Stanwick would be eye witnesses who gave two different versions of what happened.

All eyes ingest, still a man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest.
DocBarrister
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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by DocBarrister »

Think I have the numbers correct, but correct me if a number is off:

Last Ten Years

9 NCAA tournaments
4 first-round exits
4 quarterfinal exits
1 Final Four

That would be more than adequate for 95% of Division I lacrosse programs (probably including programs like Duke and Notre Dame where, despite the ample success, lacrosse remains an afterthought), but not enough for the select 3 or 4 programs among the other 5%.

Hopkins is among those 3 or 4 programs. I favor letting Coach Pietramala finish his current contract. He’s one of the greatest players to have played at Hopkins and one of the greatest coaches to have coached at Hopkins. He deserves at least that much.

And besides, I think Hopkins is loaded with good young talent, with two more good classes coming in ... classes that Petro put together. Who knows ... Coach Pietramala may just lead the team to a national championship next season. Wouldn’t rule it out.

Give the big guy the last year owed to him on his contract. Hopkins owes him at least that much.

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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus »

You know how many attempts at poaching recruits will be made with that strategy?

I’ve said it before. If I were Coach, I would at least inquire about the Navy opening. Bring Belichick back to Annapolis.
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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by DocBarrister »

WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 12:25 pm You know how many attempts at poaching recruits will be made with that strategy?

I’ve said it before. If I were Coach, I would at least inquire about the Navy opening. Bring Belichick back to Annapolis.
Might be good advice from a career counselor.

But from everything I have heard, Coach Petro is one of the most competitive guys around. I have a hard time seeing him just quit on Hopkins and leave for Navy. Nor is he going to let go of his recruits without a fight.

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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by Wood Sticks 4ever »

WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 12:25 pm You know how many attempts at poaching recruits will be made with that strategy?

I’ve said it before. If I were Coach, I would at least inquire about the Navy opening. Bring Belichick back to Annapolis.
I agree with your poaching point, but given that 2 of 3 Hopkins 2019 5-star recruits have already been poached (Shellenberger by UVa and Finlay by Princeton) other programs are already eating our lunch
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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by 44WeWantMore »

viper wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 8:53 am
DMac wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 1:24 pm
seacoaster wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 10:42 am
44WeWantMore wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 9:20 am
DougELax wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 7:29 am
QuakerSouth wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 7:17 pm I think you might find that replacing Petro isn't going to yield better results than you've had over the last 10 years. Hopkins has made the tourney how many years in the last 10? How may Quarters? A Final? If you think you "deserve" more, well......

Someone said on here they want Hopkins to be competitive---like either final 8 or final 4 every year. That is unrealistic. UMD doing what they are doing is amazing. Being competitive and being amazing are not the same thing. This isn't 50 yrs ago, 40 yrs ago, even 30 yrs ago. To think a team can get back to those types of winning seasons is fantasy.

Lots of good points here about Hopkins ability to still recruit good players. Thats true. You'll get your share of good guys. But no more than your fair share.

Petro is not perfect; nobody is. But if you think getting rid of him will all of a sudden change your fortunes, I think you could be in for a rude awakening. Be careful what you wish for.
So Maryland shouldn't have moved on from Cottle? Virginia from Starsia? Navy from Meade (oh wait)? While the message might not get as stale as long-term professional coaches since the kids rotate thru every four years, still a group on this board think that the coaches seem to be on auto-pilot. There have been years of questioning the use (or lack thereof) of bench strength, the construction of the roster (lack of mid-field depth for example) and the development of players over their four years.
Free the Wombat! page count
Grumpy Cat Dies at 7 Years Old
Grumpy Cat obituary. Now that is some serious page count padding. At this point, the question is: will it require Regime Change to get us to 200 pages, or can we get it done without the bloodletting. DMac, when you're out of the Penalty Box, jump in here!!
Seven is mighty young for a cat to die, take note Hop fans. All your miserableness isn't good for your health...and whatever you do, don't listen to the voice of reason that QuakerSouth and notentitled bring.
Thanks for the invite, sc.
Take it from my personal family experience DMac....the more crotchety one is the longer they live. :?
Or the longer I live, the more crotchety I get?
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by a fan »

viper wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 8:47 am
QuakerSouth wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 9:16 am No, thats not what I am saying at all. If it is determined that it is time to move on, so be it. What I am saying is Hopkins, despite what the fanbase thinks, has had a pretty good run over the last 10 years. To think that changing coaches will yield better results than you've had is difficult to imagine.
I wonder how many folks said the same thing about getting rid of Starsia at UVA.
None. Totally different situation, to put it mildly.
WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus
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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus »

a fan wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 2:47 pm
viper wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 8:47 am
QuakerSouth wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 9:16 am No, thats not what I am saying at all. If it is determined that it is time to move on, so be it. What I am saying is Hopkins, despite what the fanbase thinks, has had a pretty good run over the last 10 years. To think that changing coaches will yield better results than you've had is difficult to imagine.
I wonder how many folks said the same thing about getting rid of Starsia at UVA.
None. Totally different situation, to put it mildly.
Let’s not talk about UVa and its history and problems and facts.

Wink wink.

Unless you want to talk about a certain someone’s metoo moment. Holy cow, the LP gossip grapevine lit up over that.
DocBarrister
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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by DocBarrister »

a fan wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 2:47 pm
viper wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 8:47 am
QuakerSouth wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 9:16 am No, thats not what I am saying at all. If it is determined that it is time to move on, so be it. What I am saying is Hopkins, despite what the fanbase thinks, has had a pretty good run over the last 10 years. To think that changing coaches will yield better results than you've had is difficult to imagine.
I wonder how many folks said the same thing about getting rid of Starsia at UVA.
None. Totally different situation, to put it mildly.
Which I think raises another point about how Petro has handled this program. Other than a few minor disciplinary issues and a few academic issues, Petro has run a “clean” program with no major scandals. He handled a deeply saddening tragedy with grace. I think he has run a program that has produced leaders in multiple fields and one that has as its enduring motto, “Family”. That’s an underappreciated aspect of his performance as a head coach.

I’m not satisfied with the Blue Jays’ performance on the field the last decade ... I’m on board with everyone else about that. But if the Big Guy has one year left on his contract and he wants to return for that year, then I think he’s earned the right to return.

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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by laxalife »

Petro was a great player - one of the greatest ever - and and a superb coach. He’s a great person and has dealt with both tragedies and game losses in a classy and impressive way. He brought the program back from a difficult period, he won us titles and brought us excitement and triumphs . He belongs in a pantheon of Hopkins players and coaches that few others have ever achieved . BUT. Time moves on. Games and players change and the last few years don’t rise to the standards expected of Hopkins lacrosse and of what he himself has accomplished personally and as a coach. The world has changed, I get it - it ain’t just us and SU or UNC like it was when he played. Seems to me, fwiw, we need to see who might be able to deal better with the new world. Probably not petro. But where we are now isn’t where Hopkins Lacrosse should be.
a fan
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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by a fan »

BTW, if you want this Hop squad make Final Four next year? Urge every player to shoot 200 balls a day on goal, all summer.

Totally fixable yet glaring issue. Put in the work.
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Re: THE Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

Post by Sagittarius A* »

There was something I noticed watching the playoffs this weekend.
Every single head coach of a Quarter Final team this weekend was in really GOOD physical shape.
It looks like some of these guys have been seriously working out, but all of them looked fit.
If you're job is to convince college athletes to work out constantly and stay in tip top physical shape, it doesn't hurt your message if you're in good physical shape yourself.
I think it's pretty hard to motivate athletes to work out hard and practice hard and put in the extra effort to perfect their skill sets if you're sitting on your couch eating donuts.
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