USILA All-Americans

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rasheed
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USILA All-Americans

Post by rasheed »

https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/college/m ... er-of-year

Glad to see Ryan Conrad named to the 1st team and Matt Moore get at least some recognition in comparison to the IL list. It was just foolish considering he's 6 points away from tying Doug Knight's single-season record for points and surpassing Steele Stanwick.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: USILA All-Americans

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

rasheed wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 11:35 am https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/college/m ... er-of-year

Glad to see Ryan Conrad named to the 1st team and Matt Moore get at least some recognition in comparison to the IL list. It was just foolish considering he's 6 points away from tying Doug Knight's single-season record for points and surpassing Steele Stanwick.
Indeed, Moore has had a huge year!
hens62
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Re: USILA All-Americans

Post by hens62 »

I know its been said numerous times, but 17 players per team is so many.. do we really need 2 goalies on each team? De-values the award for those who earned it when only 10 players were named

I think 13 should be the cap (3/3/3/1/1/1/1). Everyone gets a trophy etc etc etc
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: USILA All-Americans

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

hens62 wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 11:52 am I know its been said numerous times, but 17 players per team is so many.. do we really need 2 goalies on each team? De-values the award for those who earned it when only 10 players were named

I think 13 should be the cap (3/3/3/1/1/1/1). Everyone gets a trophy etc etc etc
I agree that 2 tenders each team doesn't make sense.
I get it when there's a decision to move the 2nd team guy up as a tie on 1st team (as they did with Hop's Federico and W&L's Clements in 1980), but then no #2.

I'm cool, though, with more on the HM list.
TheBigIguana
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Re: USILA All-Americans

Post by TheBigIguana »

All American teams should reflect how the game is currently played. So 3 attackmen, 3 Offensive Midfielders, 1 FOGO, 1 LSM, 2 SSDM, 3 Defenders and a goalie. Neither IL or USILA get it right imo. But the USILA one is just a complete mess.
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CU77
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Re: USILA All-Americans

Post by CU77 »

+1

In particular, 2 goalies and 1 SSDM per team makes no sense at all ...
DocBarrister
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Re: USILA All-Americans

Post by DocBarrister »

rasheed wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 11:35 am https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/college/m ... er-of-year

Glad to see Ryan Conrad named to the 1st team and Matt Moore get at least some recognition in comparison to the IL list. It was just foolish considering he's 6 points away from tying Doug Knight's single-season record for points and surpassing Steele Stanwick.
Second Team AA for Patrick Foley and Third Team AA for Joey Epstein ... well deserved!

Congratulations to all!

DocBarrister 8-)
@DocBarrister
rasheed
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Re: USILA All-Americans

Post by rasheed »

DocBarrister wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 1:45 pm
rasheed wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 11:35 am https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/college/m ... er-of-year

Glad to see Ryan Conrad named to the 1st team and Matt Moore get at least some recognition in comparison to the IL list. It was just foolish considering he's 6 points away from tying Doug Knight's single-season record for points and surpassing Steele Stanwick.
Second Team AA for Patrick Foley and Third Team AA for Joey Epstein ... well deserved!

Congratulations to all!

DocBarrister 8-)
very happy for Epstein and Foley - it will be hilarious if Moore ends up setting the all time-points record for a single season at uva - surpassing some of the greatest to play for Virginia and only be an HM AA
It aint over yet
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Re: USILA All-Americans

Post by It aint over yet »

Was there a USLIA committee that came up with the ridiculous idea to make so many All Americans ? Where was the rational thinking to water down these awards? Criticism is warranted because it makes zero sense have that many especially for 1st 2nd 3rd teamers !!
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: USILA All-Americans

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

TheBigIguana wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 12:59 pm All American teams should reflect how the game is currently played. So 3 attackmen, 3 Offensive Midfielders, 1 FOGO, 1 LSM, 2 SSDM, 3 Defenders and a goalie. Neither IL or USILA get it right imo. But the USILA one is just a complete mess.
How do you account for ties? Flip a coin?
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
oldskoollax
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Re: USILA All-Americans

Post by oldskoollax »

Everyone has their personal opinion on who should be 1st team All-Americans. It is always difficult for those players who are not at one of the top programs to get the recognition they deserve. One example is Craig Chick, Lehigh, who was a 2nd team All-American. Based on his career numbers should he be a 1st Team AA? If he has a different name on his jersey would he be a 1st team AA? Add in that he has played both LSM and close D and consistently posted similar CT and GB numbers each year. Chick broke the NCAA record for Caused Turnovers this season! Compare his stats to anyone on the 1st team.
masslax1032
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Re: USILA All-Americans

Post by masslax1032 »

oldskoollax wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 10:37 pm Everyone has their personal opinion on who should be 1st team All-Americans. It is always difficult for those players who are not at one of the top programs to get the recognition they deserve. One example is Craig Chick, Lehigh, who was a 2nd team All-American. Based on his career numbers should he be a 1st Team AA? If he has a different name on his jersey would he be a 1st team AA? Add in that he has played both LSM and close D and consistently posted similar CT and GB numbers each year. Chick broke the NCAA record for Caused Turnovers this season! Compare his stats to anyone on the 1st team.
This was discussed similarly in the D3 forums for AA. Defense is completely different than offense when it comes to statistics. Statistics do not directly reflect a player's performance. Yes, Chick was a takeaway machine. However, would you really rather have him than Surdick, Giles Harris, Raaphorst, or Sabia? In my opinion, no. All the first teamer's are (for the most part) lockdown defenders, he is more of an LSM than anything. Nothing against Chick, he is an exceptional player, but I don't believe a first teamer.

If I had to pick the top 3 defenders, it would be Surdick, Giles Harris, and Raaphorst. Raaphorst was the only person I saw all year that could handle Pat Spencer, as he is much stronger than Spencer is. Surdick is the best all around, rangy and athletic. Giles Harris is simply a fantastic athlete and will probably be the top defender next year.
calourie
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Re: USILA All-Americans

Post by calourie »

Can someone tell me definitively how the USILA AAs are determined. My understanding from some very modest internet research is that all 73 (or whatever the number is) D1 coaches get to submit their choices if they so choose. I believe this is true of the USILA polls as well. I may well be mistaken and would appreciate anyone in the know correcting my assumption.
faircornell
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Re: USILA All-Americans

Post by faircornell »

I don't know the answer to the question that you pose, but I can provide some personal historic context. The lacrosse universe has grown significantly in the 50 plus years I've either followed or played the game. In the 1960's and 1970's the chances were good that between high school, college and club teams that one would either know, have played against, or have close friends who knew the majority of the AA selections. In my view, this created a group of players whom I would call "All America Caliber". Personally, I think that this philosophy remains in the sport, although the universe of teams and players has grown substantially.

In my distant view of the situation, this idea of top caliber players deserving recognition as the player universe has grown has created a greater absolute number if All America selections. However the relative number of AA selections has decreased ( I could run some numbers with time). Personally, I think that the existing dynamic is good for the sport for several reasons:

1. These players tend to become excellent ambassadors for the sport.

2. Information, comparisons and general data points are limited, so a larger number of selections partially offsets this information inefficiency.

3. These All America Caliber players are truly in a skill category of their own, and their team mates and competition tend to understand this. So while for fans there are points of debate, for players and coaches, I assume that the the player selections are well deserved and understood.
calourie
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Re: USILA All-Americans

Post by calourie »

faircornell wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 10:46 am I don't know the answer to the question that you pose, but I can provide some personal historic context. The lacrosse universe has grown significantly in the 50 plus years I've either followed or played the game. In the 1960's and 1970's the chances were good that between high school, college and club teams that one would either know, have played against, or have close friends who knew the majority of the AA selections. In my view, this created a group of players whom I would call "All America Caliber". Personally, I think that this philosophy remains in the sport, although the universe of teams and players has grown substantially.

In my distant view of the situation, this idea of top caliber players deserving recognition as the player universe has grown has created a greater absolute number if All America selections. However the relative number of AA selections has decreased ( I could run some numbers with time). Personally, I think that the existing dynamic is good for the sport for several reasons:

1. These players tend to become excellent ambassadors for the sport.

2. Information, comparisons and general data points are limited, so a larger number of selections partially offsets this information inefficiency.

3. These All America Caliber players are truly in a skill category of their own, and their team mates and competition tend to understand this. So while for fans there are points of debate, for players and coaches, I assume that the the player selections are well deserved and understood.
One of the reasons I posed the question is because of the low number of votes that determine the USILA poll rankings. A quick review tells me those numbers have fluctuated between 14 and 20 this year which would indicate that very few coaches take the time to register their opinions on the matter. Perhaps the same holds true for the AA voting as well, which might help explain the number of ties in the voting as well as indicating that many coaches don't see the doling out of individual accolades as high on their list of D1 lacrosse priorities. Anyway I agree with what FairCornell has to say on the matter and think the coaches who did vote ( if that is how it was done) have come up with a very comprehensive list of most of the outstanding players in the country regardless of the levels to which the players have been ascribed and the odd number of players accorded to the 1st, 2nd and 3rd team choices.
wgdsr
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Re: USILA All-Americans

Post by wgdsr »

calourie wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 12:35 pm One of the reasons I posed the question is because of the low number of votes that determine the USILA poll rankings. A quick review tells me those numbers have fluctuated between 14 and 20 this year which would indicate that very few coaches take the time to register their opinions on the matter. Perhaps the same holds true for the AA voting as well, which might help explain the number of ties in the voting as well as indicating that many coaches don't see the doling out of individual accolades as high on their list of D1 lacrosse priorities. Anyway I agree with what FairCornell has to say on the matter and think the coaches who did vote ( if that is how it was done) have come up with a very comprehensive list of most of the outstanding players in the country regardless of the levels to which the players have been ascribed and the odd number of players accorded to the 1st, 2nd and 3rd team choices.
it looks like there are 2 ties, both on the 3rd team. one for an extra middie, and an extra fogo.
the template is an "extra" guy at attack, midfield, defense and goalie. and then one fogo, ssdm and lsm.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: USILA All-Americans

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Back in faircornell’s and my day, the teams were selected by a single individual, Bob Merrick , who had a network of lacrosse people who fed him their views, based on the games and matchups they saw. Merrick’s network was diverse geographically, and included both coaches and long time lax enthusiasts who made it a point to get to many games. My dad was one such, particularly with regard to goalies, but also other positions.

Merrick was broker at Alex. Brown and had himself been an excellent player at Yale and the Mount Washington Club. He wrote a fun read on his decades of selection s back in the ‘80s, which was one of the few books about our sport along with BobScott’s great book.

I don’t recall who the individual was before Merrick took over.
Last edited by MDlaxfan76 on Fri May 24, 2019 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
molo
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Re: USILA All-Americans

Post by molo »

Book was Clear from the Crease.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: USILA All-Americans

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

molo wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 6:54 pm Book was Clear from the Crease.
Yup, on my shelf!
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