~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

2019 D1 Mens Lacrosse
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thatsmell
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by thatsmell » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:15 am

Agree with the comment on scheduling. But it’s hard to predict sos in the offseason.

If Spencer is hurt I’m all for resting him against Army, rather than playing him injured. With the right game plan this team is talented enough to win some PL games without him. But that assumes the defense tightens and Savio and the wings get back to 50-50 ball. To do that, everyone needs to improve 5% this week.

I’ve seen this team/staff rebound from tough losses before and there’s still a decent amount of lacrosse left. But the team needs to be focused and work hand AND smart to accomplish it.
I never knew no Godfather. I got my own family, Senator."

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thatsmell
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by thatsmell » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:21 am

GreyingHound wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:04 am
Ha! Butler! You must be another old-timer like me. That was back in the CAA days. The worst part about that loss to Butler (2002, I think) is that I think they dropped their lax program the next year.

No, the Hounds' season isn't over, but they didn't do themselves any favors today.
;)

Tough time to lose a game, but hearing some good stuff about this group of young men. This team is resilient. Back to work Monday!
I never knew no Godfather. I got my own family, Senator."

oldskoollax
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by oldskoollax » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:28 am

thatsmell wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:15 am
Agree with the comment on scheduling. But it’s hard to predict sos in the offseason.

If Spencer is hurt I’m all for resting him against Army, rather than playing him injured. With the right game plan this team is talented enough to win some PL games without him. But that assumes the defense tightens and Savio and the wings get back to 50-50 ball. To do that, everyone needs to improve 5% this week.

I’ve seen this team/staff rebound from tough losses before and there’s still a decent amount of lacrosse left. But the team needs to be focused and work hand AND smart to accomplish it.
The problem is if Loyola losses to Army and Lehigh wins out against Bucknell and Holy Cross, Lehigh is the #1 seed, Army the #2 seed and Loyola would drop to #3 or #4, if BU wins out. That means they would have to play a quarterfinal game.

wahoomurf
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by wahoomurf » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:24 am

GreyingHound wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:55 pm
wahoomurf wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:12 pm
GreyingHound wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:39 pm
That was a tough one. McSorley was amazing in cage for BU.
Stover had more saves than McSorley, Spencer held to 1 assist and BU puts up 18? :o
Yes, Stover had more saves than McSorley (17 vs. 14), but Stover saw 21 more shots (63 vs. 42), 10 of which were on goal (35 vs. 25). So, statistically McSorley had a better game, with a 56% save percentage vs. 48.6% for Stover. Not to mention that several of McSorley's saves were pure thievery, stopping shots that were right on the doorstep, including Spencer's leaping shot similar to the one in the Rutgers game.
YUP.
"You cannot use facts, logic, reason or reality to convince people something is true when they don’t believe in facts, logic, reason or reality."

Peter Brown
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by Peter Brown » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:03 pm

One more thing that's been bugging me: can the team lay off the media canonization of Spencer? Win an NCAA, then start doing gigs like 'Carc at the X'. Coupled with Stover's Twitter Q&A midweek last week, you'd have thought the Hounds were crowned NCAA champions already. I mean, enough man.

The freshman for Army, leading the nation in points per game scored by a freshman, is a real baller with uncanny confidence. Their entire offense rotates through this kid. Nichtern from Massapequa. Legit great player who wants the ball at crunch time, AS A FRESHMAN! Very muscular kid who seems to have a lower center of gravity than his stated 6'0"; not certain I believe that height listing. What's amazing is that Nichtern could play almost unnoticed on Long Island (2nd team All Metro NY), but he is the kind of player any college would die to have.

Not to shortchange the MIAA, I'll also point out that Barretto in Army's goal is just a phenomenal goalie; what a fun kid to cheer for, running the length of the field, smart outlets, great camaraderie with the opposing team (love having people like that as service members, too!).

Speaking of which, did you realize that the three of the best goalies in D1 today are all seniors and all came from the same high school conference, the MIAA? Barretto (St. Paul's), Trouttner (High Point), and Stover (McDonogh); I have to assume the year they graduated in the MIAA there were some low-scoring games (I can't recall).

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GreyingHound
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by GreyingHound » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:34 pm

Hey Hounds fans, chins up! Despite yesterday's embarrassment in Boston, and the huge RPI hit we'll take with UVA, Towson, and Hopkins all losing this weekend, there is some good news:
  • Georgetown just made a huge comeback and beat #16 Villanova.
  • Yesterday, we held the #3 man-up offense in the country (57.1%) to 0-7!
All is not lost. I expect a big rebound against Army, whom we've historically dominated.

BTW, we will all be Rutgers fans tonight.

Peter Brown
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by Peter Brown » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:26 am

GreyingHound wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:34 pm
Hey Hounds fans, chins up! Despite yesterday's embarrassment in Boston, and the huge RPI hit we'll take with UVA, Towson, and Hopkins all losing this weekend, there is some good news:
  • Georgetown just made a huge comeback and beat #16 Villanova.
  • Yesterday, we held the #3 man-up offense in the country (57.1%) to 0-7!
All is not lost. I expect a big rebound against Army, whom we've historically dominated.

BTW, we will all be Rutgers fans tonight.
One thing we as lacrosse fans should all be mindful of is, what's past is not prologue any longer in D1 men's lacrosse. The sport is changing rapidly. If history sets the context for the present, then Loyola should have beaten BU by about 21 goals on Saturday.

This team is not a good road team, for whatever reason and Army isn't exactly a cupcake. If Charlie knows what he's doing, I'd take a page out of Tills' book for Maryland and spend a little extra, bus the kids up really early Friday (not Saturday!) morning, have a good solid practice, get a good rest in a top hotel, then be ready for Saturday. Tills bused the Terps up Saturday morning for a Sunday night game, in New Jersey! I'm a little nervous Charlie will bus the Hounds up super early Saturday (4 hour drive with no traffic) for the 2:30 pm start; that's a guaranteed loss. Please tell me I am wrong.

NovaHound
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by NovaHound » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:46 am

Yikes - those bus rides are terrible... Hounds played 3 games in 7 days and that's not a lot of time to rest and recover when you're dinged up. BU on the other hand played 2 games in 14 days, and didn't have to travel. BU had the edge on freshness and game prep and it showed. Army will be tough and I'm not sure how the Hounds prepare because the Black Knights have a good defense and will take every advntage to control the tempo of the game and not let the Hounds jump out to an early lead. Winning face offs early will again be critical and let's hope Savio is well rested. When the Hounds jump out early they hang on to win. We'll see how this plays out Saturday and how well the Hounds respond. Hoping for some nice weather.

houndace1
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by houndace1 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:58 am

Usually what the team does for saturday road games is that they would travel either thursday/friday ... maybe take an extra day for rest
Loyola '18
A.M.D.G

Peter Brown
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by Peter Brown » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:45 pm

NovaHound wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:46 am
Yikes - those bus rides are terrible... Hounds played 3 games in 7 days and that's not a lot of time to rest and recover when you're dinged up. BU on the other hand played 2 games in 14 days, and didn't have to travel. BU had the edge on freshness and game prep and it showed. Army will be tough and I'm not sure how the Hounds prepare because the Black Knights have a good defense and will take every advntage to control the tempo of the game and not let the Hounds jump out to an early lead. Winning face offs early will again be critical and let's hope Savio is well rested. When the Hounds jump out early they hang on to win. We'll see how this plays out Saturday and how well the Hounds respond. Hoping for some nice weather.

Forecast for Saturday is Misery, Inc, rain 80% likely.

Holy Cross put 15 on us; outside their Lafayette win, that's the most they've scored all year.

BU put 18 on us; the most they've scored.

We have the #1 goalie in D1. I think it's fair to say that our defense is not good.

reLAX
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by reLAX » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:50 pm

Peter Brown wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:45 pm
NovaHound wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:46 am
Yikes - those bus rides are terrible... Hounds played 3 games in 7 days and that's not a lot of time to rest and recover when you're dinged up. BU on the other hand played 2 games in 14 days, and didn't have to travel. BU had the edge on freshness and game prep and it showed. Army will be tough and I'm not sure how the Hounds prepare because the Black Knights have a good defense and will take every advntage to control the tempo of the game and not let the Hounds jump out to an early lead. Winning face offs early will again be critical and let's hope Savio is well rested. When the Hounds jump out early they hang on to win. We'll see how this plays out Saturday and how well the Hounds respond. Hoping for some nice weather.

Forecast for Saturday is Misery, Inc, rain 80% likely.

Holy Cross put 15 on us; outside their Lafayette win, that's the most they've scored all year.

BU put 18 on us; the most they've scored.

We have the #1 goalie in D1. I think it's fair to say that our defense is not good.
I heard LSN announcers UMass has the #1 D1 goalie, and I think High Point did too.

Peter Brown
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by Peter Brown » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:15 pm

I mean, Stover is good if not great, not that he is necessarily the #1 goalie in the country; smarter people can figure that one out, and that metric is defined as more than simple save %. I don't know how Stover stacks against those others. A ton of folks think Barretto of Army is the #1 goalie in the country too. But for my money, I love how Stover plays, his leadership, etc.; he's my #1 goalie.

In any event, my point stands. With a great goalie manning the net, we give up significant scoring to the opposition. Looking at the film of Georgetown and BU, you can see how our defense slaps at shooter's wrists, our body positioning is awful, picks are almost comically backed up. Many times you can chalk that up to the other team simply being faster than your guys, but I just think we aren't entirely motivated on defense, or too tight because of coaching issues. You tell me.

This game should be closer than the BU disaster, but I'm not sold we are going to win (road trip, dump weather, motivated opposition, Spencer off, etc...). Something tells me something occurred with this team that we don't know about, as evidenced by their body language against both Gtown and BU. If Gtown had had two more minutes, they'd have beaten us. I just have zero confidence in this team right now, and only hope I am entirely incorrect on all of this unhealthy pessimism.

TheBigIguana
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by TheBigIguana » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:47 pm

This may just be a coincidence but the 5 worst games Loyola has played have been with less than a week since their last game. Towson on a Wednesday, HC the Saturday after the Towson game, Duke on a Thursday, GTown on a Tuesday and Boston the Saturday after Georgetown.

houndace1
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by houndace1 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:58 pm

For some reason in odd numbered year's the team tends to disappoint in road games. Look at 2017, we were 4-5 in away games with a pretty talented team if i say so myself. 2015 my freshman year we just finished 7-8 and i don't like to think about that year at all.

Something maybe is up, maybe not.

in 2017 we lost to BU and bucknell and i knew that if we lost the game to army we lose hosting rights... and what happened? we beat a very good army team 14-6 in their home.

its 2019, backs are against the wall, same situation. I expect the team to fight out a win. won't be easy, never is in the PL especially against a service academy who are practically future super fit soldiers.
Loyola '18
A.M.D.G

NovaHound
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by NovaHound » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:14 pm

Thanks for your insight Houndace. I'm not good on predictions. The only thing the Hounds control is their attitude, preparation and effort. I do think they understand what is at stake and how to prepare - the upperclassmen certainly know what to expect from Army - and I'm sure all will put forth their best effort. Will it be enough?? Given the right conditions it might be enough, and it will be a dog fight. These two teams seem to be evenly matched at this point in the season. Army is on an upward trajectory and the Hounds are licking their wounds. This will be an exciting game with a lot at stake.

Peter Brown
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by Peter Brown » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:21 am

Like the next guy, I want the team to compete and win, but I am wondering if something else is going on with this team that none of us are aware of. If you saw the second half of Gtown, plus basically the entire game of BU, you just saw a team really on its heels emotionally, with its de facto leader dumping the ball off to teammates as soon as he touched it. The defense looks positively bewildered when the opposition sets a pick; neither defender knows what to do, so they both do nothing; it's worse than 5th-6th grade lacrosse awareness. Hound middies play catch with the opposition, leading to comical doorstep goals. The FO wings couldn't situate themselves in worse ball positions than if I coach\ed them to go to the one place where the ball will definitely NOT pop out to.

Loyola's play versus BU was as bad an effort as I've seen in some time; the only skills that were worse (though a different effort) was Navy (versus Army, where Army somehow didn't run the score up 30-0; I mean, Navy is woeful, like the worst team I have seen in D1 in forever; dropped passes, zero offense, zero awareness of the play clock; their goalie, like Stover, simply kept them in the game).

With the Hounds, something's not adding up; something's worse here than a simple 2-game skid. No way do you go from beating Lehigh to looking like you've never played D1.

foreverlax
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by foreverlax » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:49 am

Spencer was reportedly injured in a pre-season scrimmage...and didn't practice until March. It does appear something is hampering him - Toomey clearly believes that Spencer, even injured, needs to be on the field.

IMHO, I don't care how the seasons ends for Loyola or Spencer, he is truly in a class of his own. Is he the GOAT? If I were starting a team from scratch and could pick any player in history as #1, I'd be hard pressed not to take him in the first round. He can feed, carry, dodge, shoot and play D. He could play at a high level anywhere on the field.

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youthathletics
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by youthathletics » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:24 am

There is something to a team that has a true #1 player week in and week out. The team often revolves around them, the players witness the coaches tailor everything to set him up or use him to be a distraction, etc...first that wears on the player and secondly when that player has an off day or is dinged up the surrounding staff begin to question what is going to happen....they then see and hear the staff stress level go up when things do not go according to plan, in the way they present practice and game plans, maybe even chew you out over something otherwise overlooked.

The other side of the coin is the Ewing Theory, some teams get better when their star player is absent on the court/field, the gloves are off its on us now.

Loyola is likely working through the pains of player, team, and coaching growth. As a Navy fan, I'd like to be in your shoes as far as the season goes...Loyola will be fine, they have a couple weeks to balance it all out, get healthy, and the coaches will adjust accordingly.

Good Luck, except if we see each other again. ;)
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself. Livy

Peter Brown
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by Peter Brown » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:54 am

youthathletics wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:24 am
There is something to a team that has a true #1 player week in and week out. The team often revolves around them, the players witness the coaches tailor everything to set him up or use him to be a distraction, etc...first that wears on the player and secondly when that player has an off day or is dinged up the surrounding staff begin to question what is going to happen....they then see and hear the staff stress level go up when things do not go according to plan, in the way they present practice and game plans, maybe even chew you out over something otherwise overlooked.

The other side of the coin is the Ewing Theory, some teams get better when their star player is absent on the court/field, the gloves are off its on us now.

Loyola is likely working through the pains of player, team, and coaching growth. As a Navy fan, I'd like to be in your shoes as far as the season goes...Loyola will be fine, they have a couple weeks to balance it all out, get healthy, and the coaches will adjust accordingly.

Good Luck, except if we see each other again. ;)
I actually don't think they 'do have a couple weeks to work it out'. At this stage, I'm assuming we lose to Army; the opposing momentum today of Loyola and Army is hard to ignore.

I assume we beat Lafayette, though that'll be an ugly win after a 3-game skid...we play a team that's not good with absolutely nothing to lose, located in another awful town like West Point. You'll be fortunate if the Hounds don't exit with injuries, blown confidence, and regressing skills.

So on then to the conference tourney. The Hounds don't like traveling because we lose travel games. And we WILL be on the road, likely at Lehigh (another awful town, Bethlehem PA).

So, for me the whole season comes down to this one weekend. If we beat Army, then this team might rebound mentally and compete for the NCAA (assuming our defense can improve by about 1,000%). If we lose this weekend, the season is cooked. Not 'weeks' to balance it all out, but mere days. Beat Army, save the season. Lose to Army, forget it.

houndace1
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Re: ~Loyola University Lacrosse 2019~

Post by houndace1 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:50 am

Peter Brown wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:54 am
youthathletics wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:24 am
There is something to a team that has a true #1 player week in and week out. The team often revolves around them, the players witness the coaches tailor everything to set him up or use him to be a distraction, etc...first that wears on the player and secondly when that player has an off day or is dinged up the surrounding staff begin to question what is going to happen....they then see and hear the staff stress level go up when things do not go according to plan, in the way they present practice and game plans, maybe even chew you out over something otherwise overlooked.

The other side of the coin is the Ewing Theory, some teams get better when their star player is absent on the court/field, the gloves are off its on us now.

Loyola is likely working through the pains of player, team, and coaching growth. As a Navy fan, I'd like to be in your shoes as far as the season goes...Loyola will be fine, they have a couple weeks to balance it all out, get healthy, and the coaches will adjust accordingly.

Good Luck, except if we see each other again. ;)
I actually don't think they 'do have a couple weeks to work it out'. At this stage, I'm assuming we lose to Army; the opposing momentum today of Loyola and Army is hard to ignore.

I assume we beat Lafayette, though that'll be an ugly win after a 3-game skid...we play a team that's not good with absolutely nothing to lose, located in another awful town like West Point. You'll be fortunate if the Hounds don't exit with injuries, blown confidence, and regressing skills.

So on then to the conference tourney. The Hounds don't like traveling because we lose travel games. And we WILL be on the road, likely at Lehigh (another awful town, Bethlehem PA).

So, for me the whole season comes down to this one weekend. If we beat Army, then this team might rebound mentally and compete for the NCAA (assuming our defense can improve by about 1,000%). If we lose this weekend, the season is cooked. Not 'weeks' to balance it all out, but mere days. Beat Army, save the season. Lose to Army, forget it.
Peter if you really think about it, Let's say Loyola does lose to Army, then don't sleep on any of the other teams in the 2-4 slot as they have a couple remaining PL games left. Everyone knows that PL teams can beat up on eachother. Loyola is the top every year but we always take a few bumps whether it be conference or noncon. What i'm getting at is, Lehigh may even lose against Bucknell this weekend - they have playmakers. BU plays holy cross who is on a nice win streak with a good coach and culture whose players want to play for.

Yes the team is bad on the road, yes their seed dropped to 8 from 3 which results in possibly playing OSU now instead of Richmond per IL. But keep winning and i'm sure the seed will improve as well as the confidence. Plenty of great players have played injured before (they can't always have great games i.e Connor Fields, Wells Stanwick, Steele Stanwick played injured - won the Tewey - won the Natty.. bottom line great players can sometimes have subpar/awful games), but i'm sure Toomey and the guys know whats at stake. I'm sure they read these forums, i'm sure they look at updated Bracketology looks on Collegecrosse, IL, USlaxmagazine, and talk amongst eachother of what they're doing and what they can do from now to make a deep run.

Not to be cliche, but destiny is literally in their hands now. And if this super competitive senior class wants the younger guys to emulate them, then sack up, man up, and go on a tear to live all the hype they got in the preseason to make it count.
Loyola '18
A.M.D.G

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