LaxPower Back-Up Stick

I wonder what new leader is anxious to inherit this mess? Finishing this war will take a very long time and will only become more difficult as it drags on. I wonder how Hamas was able to construct such a sophisticated system of tunnels right under the Israelis noses? I know that Israel knew they we...

The trauma of 9/11 vs. the generational trauma that Jews have experienced is dramatically different. For that matter, the trauma the Palestinians have faced and are facing vs. the generational trauma of the Jews is dramatically different. My point isn't to have a trauma contest. I just don't want t...

Yes, that's a fair statement that many Americans, though only some quite heavily and most less so, experienced that trauma. And it had a real effect. And some "counterproductive" decisions, too. There are all sorts of of traumas that people experience, indeed most people know someone who ...

International law, my ass... So much (hypocritical) compassion—for everyone but the Jews and Israel. There was the "Jewish Problem" for over two thousand years. What to do with the Jews? So Hitler and his regime came up with a solution, a final solution. This solution obviously wasn't per...

Maybe it is just that the IDF and governing coalition agree that, at its core, the Gaza population and Hamas are effectively coextensive. That is what Baducci was intimating when he described elections in Gaza. I’m not saying it’s right; I’m suggesting that is the overall conclusion and ethos there...

... me too, until I started to research the history. I am guessing you never heard of the Deir Yassin massacre. Since the late 1800s period each side has been taking eyes for eyes, with the number of eyes taken at one time ever increasing. Many more Palestinian eyes have been taken since 1948. Deir...

... murdered the Israeli Olympic athletes in 1972... My mind was made up early on re which side of the struggle I would support. There are many for me including Munich but, for whatever reason, the Ramallah Lynchings really struck a chord for me. The number of Jews killed doesn't compare to other i...

You speak repeatedly about Israel and the Israelis, how they are not worthy of trust, that they are an extremely difficult, if not impossible, partner to work with. Do you lay any blame on the Palestinians? ... Israel wants all the land... I think you answered my question. Paragraph after paragraph...

jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:36 am ... that Palestinians have greater hate for the US / west than the Muslims.

your language is cloudy but i assume what you mean is that Palestinians do not have a greater hate for the US / west than the average Muslim (outside of the US). You might be right.

jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:30 am ... I don't buy this.

what don't you buy?

The Palestinian leadership has always been weak, weaker than the Jews. Frankly, the Jews have always taken advantage of this to put themselves in a superior public relations position. They play the western game better than the Palestinians. I think a more accurate statement would be that the Israel...

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:01 am ... And that conflation is at the root of Islamphobic bigotry.

Fair enough. Let me it say it this way. Jihadists hate western values, hate America. Hamas hates western values, hates America. Many Palestinians hate western values, hate America. Not Muslims. Muslims is too broad a word.

That was never going to work. It is however a typical Israeli negotiating tactic. Make an offer and then undermine it. Israeli from the beginning violated compacts. They forced Palestinians from their lands. After creation of the state of Israel they again forced Palestinians from their land bcs of...

I think you missed "assimilated Christians"... But other Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, whatever can comfortably embrace western values and see their religious faith as in concert with those values. So not inherently antithetical. I happened to be talking about Muslims and,...

"Muslim values"??? I have plenty of religiously observant Muslim friends who would take great exception to the characterization you imply, that "Muslim values" are antithetical to "western" values... A discussion of all that could be interesting, but if you didn't mean...

PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2023 5:35 pm And why is that, pray tell?

Because Israel, like the US, is western and is not a proponent of Muslim values. Because Israel is a Jewish State and Jewish is not Muslim. Don't forget, this hatred was present well before the modern State of Israel was founded and remains to this day.

I still don't understand why this is the concern of the US... There's more than one answer to this but one is that Hamas hates the US in a similar fashion to how much they hate Israel. We're safely on the other side of the world but Hamas and other jihadist groups are not an entity, no matter where...

... if the US pulls support, now the Israelis are backed into a corner, and have no reason to listen to anyone about anything... Can you picture what the result of that would be? If the US or any country was to step aside, I think you'd find little if any change in what Israel is currently doing. I...

OCanada wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2023 10:31 am

Gretchen wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:06 am

OCanada wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 9:48 am Israel never wanted a two state solution...

This is blatantly untrue...

That is blatantly uninformed

Gretchen, this discussion is a waste of your time. Why bother...

Because only a moderate government, not a right wing absolutist one, is going to be capable of accepting, much less offering, a two state peace solution... Not that it's going to be easy or simple for a moderate one, but there's no shred of hope for the Palestinians to even begin to coalesce around...